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Argument for trading up

 
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SIERK


Joined: 07 Mar 2005
Posts: 321
PostPosted: Wed Apr 06, 2005 9:22 pm    Post subject: Argument for trading up Reply with quote

2004 draft
3 Arizona Larry Fitzgerald WR Pittsburgh
------------
31 San Francisco Rashaun Woods WR Oklahoma State
35 San Diego Igor Olshansky DE Oregon
63 New England Marquise Hill DE Louisiana State
77 San Francisco Derrick Hamilton WR Clemson
94 Carolina Travelle Wharton T South Carolina

2003 draft
3 Houston Andre Johnson WR Miami
------------
31 Oakland Nnamdi Asomugha CB California
35 Chicago Charles Tillman CB Louisiana-Lafayette
63 Oakland Teyo Johnson TE Stanford
77 Baltimore Musa Smith RB Georgia
94 Buffalo Angelo Crowell OLB Virginia

2002 draft
3 Detroit Joey Harrington QB Oregon
------------
31 St. Louis Robert Thomas MLB UCLA
35 Detroit Kalimba Edwards DE South Carolina
63 Dallas Antonio Bryant WR Pittsburgh
77 Tennessee Rocky Calmus MLB Oklahoma
94 Pittsburgh Chris Hope FS Florida State



I know the draft is a time of hope... but unless some of these guys are great unknowns, they seem to be serviceable guys at best.
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eagles101


Joined: 15 Feb 2005
Posts: 9204
PostPosted: Wed Apr 06, 2005 10:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

u seriously need help dude u can get alot of big name guys not even in the late first but really late

moss went to 28
owens went to the third
lito was a second i think
brady come on
driver 7th i think
the list goes on

ps joey was a complete bust
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PhillyFan


Joined: 09 Dec 2004
Posts: 237
PostPosted: Thu Apr 07, 2005 1:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lito was our first rounder not second.

Plus those guys were able to develop because of the better players around them and also because they weren't thrown right into the mix straight away.

Owens had Jerry Rice and Steve Young
Brady could watch Bledsoe play in his prime and they had a decent line to protect him
Drivers natural ability helped him stay with the team and it doesnt hurt to have Brett Favre as your QB either.

These guys are quite good players and needed to be in the right place to succeed like the have been, the fact though is that franchise players are normally found at the top of the first round. these guys are normally the sure thing and the team is supposed to be built around these types of players.

there are always busts but they are mainly the players who are workout warriors and not the solid collegiate players who have solid stats throughout their careers.

if you pick the solid player you most likely will not come out with a bust, but then again theres an odd chance that late round picks will blossom and become great. but if you want a player to come in right away and contribute, then the solid college players at the top of round 1 are the way to go.
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JBlovethosebirds


Joined: 10 Jan 2005
Posts: 379
PostPosted: Thu Apr 07, 2005 8:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Eagles have 8 picks in the 1st 5 rounds which they can trade.
Lets reduce the quality to 4 and get better quality. They cannot draft all the picks they have and they still have 5 picks on day 2 which they have to use 4 of them. Therefore, I suggest the following:
Keep 31, 35 and trade the others like this or something close to it.
63 + 132 + 146 = 52 to 55 range
77 + 94 + 167 = 54 to 56 range

So, lets say the eagles walk away with 31, 35, 52, 56 plus 2nd day picks
I think this is a pretty good position considering all the top picks
have ??? around them. There is no sure fire pick after top 7 if that.
I think we have strength in numbers and 4 is about the Max the eagles can digest into the 05 roster. They have 2nd day to fill out the PSquad spots. Any comments ?
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SIERK


Joined: 07 Mar 2005
Posts: 321
PostPosted: Thu Apr 07, 2005 9:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Okay, I'll grant you that QB's are in a class all by themselves. Lots more high-profile busts. I still think Joey has a good chance of not turning out to be a bust.

Replace Harrington with the #4 pick that year, OT Mike Williams. He's been a solid starter, but not worth the #4 pick.

My point...
In retrospect, 2002 was probably slightly better to have the 5 picks rather than the #4, though Bryant is on his 2nd team. Edwards is okay.

2003, I'd take Andre Johnson over having all the other guys any day.

2004, I'd take Larry Fitzgerald over having all the other guys.


Yeah, there are stars out there. But finding them is the problem. The last few years, teams drafting in our position haven't gotten more than marginal starters. Maybe we can pull off a draft like 2002 (Sheppard, Brown, Lewis, Westbrook), but maybe we just get a bunch of guys who aren't much better than the Labinjos and Justin Jenkins of the world.
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eagles101


Joined: 15 Feb 2005
Posts: 9204
PostPosted: Thu Apr 07, 2005 5:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ok if your guys really think that you can get good players in not only the first round but early first round then u dont know anything about the draft alot of people come to good players all over the draft you dont need the first pick off the draft to get someone good
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eagles101


Joined: 15 Feb 2005
Posts: 9204
PostPosted: Thu Apr 07, 2005 5:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

here are some guys in the late first 2nd and so on

kevin jone RB Detroit 30 pick
teddy lehman lb dertriot 37 pick
nick barrnett mlb 29 pick
boss bailey olb detriot 34 pick
anquan boldin arizona 54 pick
l.j. smith philly 61 pick
clinton portis rb skins 51 pick
micheal lewis philly s 58 pick
brian westbrook 91 pick
todd heap te 31 pick
drew brees qb 32
chad johnson wr 36
kredell bell milb 39
fred smoot cb 45
travis henry rb 58
shaun rodgers dt 61
gary baxter cb 62
keith bullock lb #30
ian gold 40
jerry porter 47
and just keeps going
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SIERK


Joined: 07 Mar 2005
Posts: 321
PostPosted: Thu Apr 07, 2005 8:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Did you even read what I wrote?

I am NOT arguing that there aren't good guys that are available in the second round. I am arguing that there are a whole bunch of guys who don't do squat that get drafted in that area as well. Based on the previous three drafts, there is only one where I'd prefer having the guys picked at 31, 35, 63, 77, 94.

Maybe this year is different. Maybe the Eagles scouting department is better than other teams. At the very least, I found it interesting to see who was drafted in these positions. Once you get beyond the draft hype machine, you begin to realize how few of these "desirable" players really make an impact.
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hype4bid


Joined: 09 Feb 2005
Posts: 89
Location: State College
PostPosted: Thu Apr 07, 2005 9:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Both of you have valid points; itís just up to the scouting dept. and a lot of luck. I still contend they will trade up a few spots to nab someone they really like.
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ShakeNbake2128


Joined: 16 Nov 2004
Posts: 3808
PostPosted: Thu Apr 07, 2005 11:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think the eagles would be better off staying at 31 they dont have many holes and using their own 2nd along with one of the thirds or more to trade back up high in the 2nd round then you would end up with a 1st and too really early 2nds and with not many needs that could turn into a solid draft.
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aafroe


Joined: 31 Oct 2004
Posts: 211
PostPosted: Fri Apr 08, 2005 10:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
they seem to be serviceable guys at best.


Sorry but servicable at best is not a compelling argument.
5th rounders are serviceable at best.
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bwojo


Joined: 11 Feb 2005
Posts: 72
PostPosted: Fri Apr 08, 2005 7:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This Draft is not packed with elite talent but has plenty of "B level " talent as they put it. most of the player's in this years first round would not be first round talent in preveous years. this years 2nd throu 4th is possible the strongest in the past 10 years. So trading up and over paying for marginal talent just because it is the best available at the time is not always the answer. The Eagles have the talent in place and the time to develope all there mid-level picks and content for years to come, with out throwing away a superbowl trip in 05-06.
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Yo_Its_T.O.


Joined: 29 Mar 2005
Posts: 2224
Location: DELCO
PostPosted: Sat Apr 09, 2005 12:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ed Reed and Ray Lewis were taken pretty late in the first round and they both have DPOTY awards. There is always quality talent at #3 in any draft but, if you can find a guy in the late rounds that can adapt to your system then that is better than any pure athlete you can find in the early 1st round.
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inkwell


Joined: 14 Feb 2005
Posts: 549
Location: Maryland
PostPosted: Sat Apr 09, 2005 8:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Eagles are pretty conservative from a cap position. They want all these picks to bring in guys who can step in in a year or two to replace guys who are cap casualty hits. This is the value fo having a ton of first day picks. The Eagles dont need an influx of 3 new starters. They have few holes so they can draft for depth and to groom players who can step in down the road. Most teams drafting high dont have that luxury.
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SacredStar


Joined: 11 Feb 2005
Posts: 1578
Location: Kansas City
PostPosted: Sat Apr 09, 2005 9:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think the Eagles trade up for sure.

The team is already rock solid at most positions and they have like 5 first day picks. I bet they sneak up and steal one in the top 10.

They are deadly as it is, and if they happen to get a Derrick Johnson or Crowder, or say, a Mike Williams or Edwards, they would lethal.
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