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Of draftable players, the best at losing, and trading down
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Juan00


Joined: 01 Nov 2004
Posts: 2320
PostPosted: Sun Jan 07, 2007 2:59 pm    Post subject: Of draftable players, the best at losing, and trading down Reply with quote

It's the worst time ever to be an Oakland Raider fan right now. They were the best at on thing this past season and that is the best at losing. Because of their offensive ineptitude they ended up with the worst record in the NFL and the now have the dubious task of picking #1 overall Pathetic. Puke. Yuk.

Now I come back from my hibernation and see a bunch of new posters pimping Russell as if he could walk on water. Russell is a great young prospect and before I went on my hiatus I had him rated below Brohm and Smith. He had a great bowl game and Quinn had a poor one, like I knew he would, and Quinn once again showed his true colors. All the Quinn jockers were humbled and the Russell followers are in full force now. I have to say hold the wagon, Russell is no sure thing despite showing a great arm against ND and all of last season for LSU. Russell didn't bring his team back and carry them on their backs the way Vince Young did. Against ND, he didn't have to play against a better team, the way Vince Young did against USC. Again, I like Russell's tools and his upside a lot, but I wouldn't take him as the #1 overall pick in the draft based on one game. If Troy Smith has a big game against Florida playing against a better team than what LSU played against, does that make him the #1 overall? That's my point.

Now, for the vets in here, you all know that I always say that trading down is not a thing that Davis does. However, this upcoming draft is so deep (especially is Brohm decides to declare) at the three top skills positions (QB, RB, and WR) that trading down would be the best thing that Oakland could do for themselves. IF Oakland traded down and IF they got a #1 for Moss then they could end up with a stud WR, RB, and QB. Heck, if Davis used the Porter pick and his own picks to trade up if he saw a player falling then who knows. Still, I don't see this happening.

Happy New Year everyone.
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Speed


Joined: 27 Dec 2006
Posts: 26
PostPosted: Sun Jan 07, 2007 3:46 pm    Post subject: Re: Of draftable players, the best at losing, and trading do Reply with quote

Juan00 wrote:
It's the worst time ever to be an Oakland Raider fan right now. They were the best at on thing this past season and that is the best at losing. Because of their offensive ineptitude they ended up with the worst record in the NFL and the now have the dubious task of picking #1 overall Pathetic. Puke. Yuk.

Now I come back from my hibernation and see a bunch of new posters pimping Russell as if he could walk on water. Russell is a great young prospect and before I went on my hiatus I had him rated below Brohm and Smith. He had a great bowl game and Quinn had a poor one, like I knew he would, and Quinn once again showed his true colors. All the Quinn jockers were humbled and the Russell followers are in full force now. I have to say hold the wagon, Russell is no sure thing despite showing a great arm against ND and all of last season for LSU. Russell didn't bring his team back and carry them on their backs the way Vince Young did. Against ND, he didn't have to play against a better team, the way Vince Young did against USC. Again, I like Russell's tools and his upside a lot, but I wouldn't take him as the #1 overall pick in the draft based on one game. If Troy Smith has a big game against Florida playing against a better team than what LSU played against, does that make him the #1 overall? That's my point.

Now, for the vets in here, you all know that I always say that trading down is not a thing that Davis does. However, this upcoming draft is so deep (especially is Brohm decides to declare) at the three top skills positions (QB, RB, and WR) that trading down would be the best thing that Oakland could do for themselves. IF Oakland traded down and IF they got a #1 for Moss then they could end up with a stud WR, RB, and QB. Heck, if Davis used the Porter pick and his own picks to trade up if he saw a player falling then who knows. Still, I don't see this happening.

Happy New Year everyone.


Thank you so much for that, I was going to make a similar post regarding Russell and the VY comparison...

JaMarcus Russell's stock rises from early 2nd round to the 1st overall pick. Why? Because of his far from dominating win over a garbage ND team.

VY played what was argued one of the greatest college teams ever, with Leinart, Bush, and White. And he carried his team and won the game AND the National Championship.

JaMarcus Russell is not a winner like VY is. He has the potential to be, but everyone needs to slow down with the declaring him our savior.


One other thing... people are underrating Brady Quinn.. everyone calls him overrated. Everyone... doesn't that make him underrated? I don't want him on the Raiders, but he's not as bad as people make him out to be.
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HiFi


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 07, 2007 4:05 pm    Post subject: Re: Of draftable players, the best at losing, and trading do Reply with quote

Speed wrote:
One other thing... people are underrating Brady Quinn.. everyone calls him overrated. Everyone... doesn't that make him underrated? I don't want him on the Raiders, but he's not as bad as people make him out to be.


Underrated here, maybe. But we listened to analysts all season long call him the best quarterback by far, and perhaps better than Leinart and Cutler from last season. Then, he goes out and rips up crummy teams, but is terrible against good teams and in his biggest games.

Basically, it's backlash against the media who hyped him up, not against Quinn so much.
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Juan00


Joined: 01 Nov 2004
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 07, 2007 4:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If Russell is taken #1 it's because he would have really impressed Davis in person and at the combine. Also, Russell needs to tone his body before he goes into the combine. Btw, Russell is not as good of a scrambler/runner as Daunte was before his injury.
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Juan00


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 07, 2007 4:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Brady has been hyped since the beginning of the season by all the draft gurus, media hacks, ND fanatics, etc. etc. He bloated his numbers against the armed forces teams and had a putrid last game against LSU.

I don't underrate him or overrate him. I see him as he is. A guy with great tools who has not shown up for big games. He just doesn't seem to have that IT that other great QBs do. Maybe he'll get IT sometime between now and the combine or from now until he's in the pros? Maybe he'll be a better pro than college QB? Nobody really knows, but one thing I do know, is that I don't want to see him in Silver and Black and would rather see Russell in the Raider colors because Russell is younger, has a stronger game, has won big games, and has more upside.

Troy Smith won't go #1 overall if Oakland wants a QB, but if Brohm declares then Oakland will go with Russell or Brohm.

One crazy idea that stirred in my head for sometime now is if Petrino is finally lured to Oakland by Davis with the promise of drafting Brohm in order to make Brohm's transition to the pros much easier. Then letting Petrino draft other offensive weapons throughout the rest of the draft, again, to lure him in.
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mhuff24


Joined: 04 Jan 2007
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Location: M-Town, RI
PostPosted: Sun Jan 07, 2007 4:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

if you guys dont like russell so much then who do you think we should take. im not saying that i want him but i just dont know who would be the best fit for us. i wanted calvin johnson until i just read that he doesnt want to play for us. so who do you think we should take AP?
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HiFi


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 07, 2007 4:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Peterson or Russell. My philosophy is that you draft for talent early in the draft, especially when you're talking the top ten to fifteen picks. After that, you can look at need a bit more, but even then, I prefer talent over need.

To me, at this moment, Peterson and Russell have the most talent and potential, with Johnson a very close third in the mix.
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Juan00


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 07, 2007 4:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Before Oakland had the #1 overall I wanted CJ. However, I just don't like the idea of taking a WR #1 overall. I don't like the idea of Oakland drafting #1 overall period being that the draft is so top heavy this year. If Brohm declares, I could have a hard time deciding between him and Russell assuming they both improve their stock from here on out.

I would not take AP at the #1 because he's just too injury prone for my taste and I've actually liked Lynch better than AP for sometime now. However, I wanted Lynch if Oakland was drafting a little later in the draft. I don't like Quinn in Silver and Black and I'm high on Troy Smith, but I don't see him going before Quinn, Russell, or Brohm in the draft (if Brohm declares).

Basically, this is the one time that Allan Davis should break with his past tendencies and trade down. If he were to trade down he would still end up with a stud baller and fill other holes in later rounds as well.
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Juan00


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 07, 2007 5:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Btw, I think Oakland has bigger needs at the QB and at WR positions as opposed to RB (especially since I expect Moss and Porter to be traded), so if they draft Russell #1 overall then I would want Oakland to take a WR with the Moss pick. Ideally Jarrett, but Ginn would be a nice compliment to Curry as well if Jarret was already off the board. In the second round Bush, Irons, Hunt, or Leonard can be had.
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Juan00


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 07, 2007 5:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Btw, although Russell is not the freak athlete that Vince Young is, Russell has freakier throwing ability. That guy can flat out throw the ball and has very good accuracy to go with that cannon arm which isn't always the case.
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Football Buff


Joined: 10 Oct 2006
Posts: 482
PostPosted: Sun Jan 07, 2007 7:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

so juan, does this mean you finally gave up on your boy walter??? Laughing
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jmckinney_27


Joined: 26 Dec 2006
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Location: Laramie, WY
PostPosted: Sun Jan 07, 2007 8:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

you think this draft is deep at the RB position??? after AP and Lynch are gone by the 16th pick, who is left????
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HiFi


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 07, 2007 8:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

jmckinney_27 wrote:
you think this draft is deep at the RB position??? after AP and Lynch are gone by the 16th pick, who is left????


It really depends on who declares, but Michael Bush could have an impact.

I would consider it weak, personally, but Bush and Kenny Irons could be available as well as the top two backs.
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Juan00


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 07, 2007 8:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Football Buff wrote:
so juan, does this mean you finally gave up on your boy walter??? Laughing


Have you given up on Quinn is the better question?

Walter is still a question mark in my book. I still like his potential and upside. No young QB could have succeeded in what was one of the worst offensive ever. None. If Oakland has the same offensive issues next season I don't care if Russell or God lines up behind that o-line because they will fail.

This being said, Russell has the type of arm that comes along only once in a lifetime. To compare his arm to Elway's is no stretch, but Elway had more than an arm that made him a winner. Russell does appear to have that moxie, but again, we won't know until he dons an NFL uniform.

Now, I was always in favor of drafting a QB in the first round especially with the Moss pick, if for nothing else to get rid of Brooks and to stir up the QB competition amongst two young QBs...but you knew that, of course Buff?
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Juan00


Joined: 01 Nov 2004
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 07, 2007 8:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

jmckinney_27 wrote:
you think this draft is deep at the RB position??? after AP and Lynch are gone by the 16th pick, who is left????


Bush, Irons, Leonard (IMO he can be a faster and better version of Alstott with just as much power), and Hunt are very solid prospects. If you didn't know this then take my word for it.
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