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starkesn


Joined: 14 Jan 2005
Posts: 172
PostPosted: Fri Apr 01, 2005 7:53 pm    Post subject: HELP WITH MOCK DRAFT Reply with quote

I want to do a mock draft and would like input from each teamís forum so I can understand what your needs are. Please give good reasons for the picks you make and list the positions you need in order of most important. Thanks.
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skopi


Joined: 30 Dec 2004
Posts: 364
PostPosted: Sat Apr 02, 2005 8:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The talk is that the Bengals generally plan to employ the best player available strategy. That said, there would be several areas to consider:

DT - They signed Bryan Robinson as a stopgap. They also have two young guys (Askew and Moore) who should be stepping up to take over for Tony Williams. I realize Travis Johnson is on 40% of all mock drafts for the Bengals but his character issues probably means he will be skipped.

DE - New defensive coordinator Bresnihan wants to employ pressure without blitzing. Likely means they will strongly consider a very good pass rusher. (but would like him to also be able to tackle ball carriers)

SS - They have a very good free safety (Madieu Williams) but need a run stopping safety. Marvin prefers his safeties to be interchangeable but if a football player like Thomas Davis is there, they would take him, I think.

MLB - Landon Johnson played well out of position last year (if he'd been in NY and Vilma had been here, Landon may have won defensive rookie of the year). Nate Webster has not recovered as quickly as they would have hoped. They could look at MLB at 17 although they are also in the running for Jamie Sharper. Odell Thurman is visiting this weekend.

C - They need a long term solution at Center. Look for Chris Spencer in the 2nd or 3rd.

TE - They have 3 serviceable TEs who have their niches but would like one that can do it all. However, they may fear Heath Miller since he is coming off a sports hernia and Chris Perry had the same injury all of last year. They could take the risk, though they will get grief for it.

WR - They'd like a burner to stretch the field and keep double teams off Chad Johnson. It is possible they would take Troy Williamson if he is available at 17.

I think they'd prefer to trade backwards but it is tough seeing who would be willing to move up their spot.

sko
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THE DUKE


Joined: 28 Feb 2005
Posts: 15822
Location: Centerville, OH
PostPosted: Sat Apr 02, 2005 9:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

If I had to make a top 5 of what the Bengals want and that should still be there when they pick in round one, I would put it as follows in order:

SS Thomas Davis
ILB Channing Crowder
DE Dan Cody or Erasmus James
WR Troy Williamson
TE Heath Miller

The more and more I think about it, I want Davis, and I hope he falls to us at 17, especially if we can bring in Sharper and cut Webster.
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starkesn


Joined: 14 Jan 2005
Posts: 172
PostPosted: Sat Apr 02, 2005 10:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm almost positive that sharper will be a bengal. He really wants to be hear and middle linebacker is a huge need. However, does the cap relief from Webster if we cut him equal enough to get sharper? I don't know. As for trading down, in my mock draft, I made this trade assuming that Travis Johnson is available at 17. Philidelphia trades their #31 and #63 for the #17. This would give us two second round picks, which would be great. Here's what I think will happen if we make that trade and get sharper.

1st round: David Baas Michigan
2nd round: Matt Roth Iowa
Ernest Shazor Michigan
3rd round: Chris Spencer

I think Baas makes sense that late in round one. However, I would leave him at guard and pick up Spencer in the third round for center. Here's why. Our guard play is scary at best sometimes, and Baas is clearly the best run blocker and quickest of the bunch. I still have them getting Spencer in the third because Baas would do better to just take over for Bobby Williams (terrible) than to start a year from now at center. Having linemen that can change from guard to center if someone gets hurt is very important to a solid offensive line. Some might hate that two of these picks are on linemen, but the best teams have overpowering linemen, plus we have way too many dollars invested in Palmer to let him end up on his back. I think Roth and Shazor both could be first round talent but fall because of team needs and draft depth at CB. I would be very excited if all this were t0 happen.
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skopi


Joined: 30 Dec 2004
Posts: 364
PostPosted: Sat Apr 02, 2005 10:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree that Thomas Davis would be an excellent pick if we are so lucky.

I would also add Shaun Cody to the DLine list you had. I would hope to move backwards and get him. It is the fact that he can play DT or DE that makes him interesting. I don't think he'll be a spectacular player but will probably be pretty solid for a long time in the league...

sko
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THE DUKE


Joined: 28 Feb 2005
Posts: 15822
Location: Centerville, OH
PostPosted: Sat Apr 02, 2005 12:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

starkesn wrote:

1st round: David Baas Michigan
2nd round: Matt Roth Iowa
Ernest Shazor Michigan
3rd round: Chris Spencer


I would be OK with that, build the fundamentals instead of going for a playmaker (which roth and shazor do have the potential, but I don't know). I've never been too high on Bobby Williams, and Baas/Steinbach would be a killer guard combo, and i'm definitely on teh Spencer bandwagon.
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ShakeNbake2128


Joined: 16 Nov 2004
Posts: 3808
PostPosted: Sun Apr 03, 2005 9:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This is a Q for that crazy A** Cincy fan who swears the bengals won't take Travis Johnson.

Derrick Johnson, Shawn Merriman, Erasmus James, Marcus Spears, Thomas Davis, Dan Cody, Carlos Rodgers, Antrel Rolle, and Pac- Man Jones are all gone by pick 17 who else if not Travis Johnson are you going to draft? and don't tell me Crowder bc he has way more off field issues than TJ along with injury problems anyway im willing to bet you get Jamie Sharper to reunit with former D cordinator Lewis.
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Sportboy86


Joined: 29 Jan 2005
Posts: 3104
Location: Ponte Vedra Beach, Fla.
PostPosted: Sun Apr 03, 2005 9:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Heath Miller or David Pollack
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THE DUKE


Joined: 28 Feb 2005
Posts: 15822
Location: Centerville, OH
PostPosted: Mon Apr 04, 2005 8:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think that Davis will be there at 17, he had a good pro-day, but he has still been falling some. Tweener DL/LB are the trend right now, not so much in tweener S/LB, but that fits nicely for the Bengals when teamed with Madieu Williams.
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JCool333


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Joined: 13 Mar 2005
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 07, 2005 5:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Why go Pollack over Travis Johnson??? Pollack is great but he wont be good against double coverage.

Beign a Dolphin fan I can tell you that Robinson is no DT solution and that he isnt big enough and is a better fit as a run stopper DE or 3-4 DE...

I think Askew and Moore are OK, but why not take Johnson over Cody, Miller, or Pollack as he is better than them and fills a need...

Miller does as well but he has injury issues and I think they will wait till the 2nd round as tehy have 4 good WRs, agood rb, and a good qb and a solid line s offense isnt the key here...I like Alex Smith second round...
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skopi


Joined: 30 Dec 2004
Posts: 364
PostPosted: Fri Apr 08, 2005 10:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Travis' negatives scare me:

- Legal problems
- Apparently arrogance
- Relies too much on talent rather than working hard
- Had only one good year when the light bulb finally came on.

Now admittedly he might not be a one year wonder and instead had finally realized he must play hard every day, every down. Maybe he has matured. I would think the Bengals have interviewed him and have a good feel for what he will do at the next level so I really have no right to be positive or negative about him. However, I am just worried that this one year is not indicative of his true NFL worth.

As for Pollack, I would love to trade down and get him later in the round. I understand he is smart and is a hard worker. He has a team attitude. That's why I like him...

sko
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Sportboy86


Joined: 29 Jan 2005
Posts: 3104
Location: Ponte Vedra Beach, Fla.
PostPosted: Sat Apr 09, 2005 7:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

JCool333 wrote:
Why go Pollack over Travis Johnson??? Pollack is great but he wont be good against double coverage.


Who's going to double David Pollack? Especially with Justin Smith on the other side.
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JCool333


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 10, 2005 6:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lets say both players are around at your pick. Lets say that Travis Johnson is a 92 skillwise and Pollack is 91. Would you really pick Pollack?

If a coach passes on a guy purely based on off the field issues and using talent over hard work, then he isnt trying hard enough. Any great coach, which I think Marvin Lewis can be, would want to work to make this guy work hard, have talent and be less arrogant.

One of the reasons someone posted for getting Pollack was to replace Smith, so when hes gone and faces doubles, how will he deal?

Also, Smith has fallen the past few years a bit and Pollack is known to have the speed. That emans that Pollack will likely get 50 or more percent of the attention on pass plays...
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Sportboy86


Joined: 29 Jan 2005
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 10, 2005 11:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes. Pollack all the way. The Bengals currently have like 6 or 7 DTs on their roster--5 of them are shoe-ins to make the roster. Why pick up another one? Of the DTs, only 3 (Justin Smith, Robert Geathers, and Duane Clemons) are sure to make the roster. If Cincy were to draft Johnson, he would be a 4th or 5th DT this year believe it or not.

If Marvin passes on Johnson, it wouldn't be because of off the field issues. It would be because a lack of need at DT now. People outside of Bengaldom have completely forgotten about last year's 4th rounder MATTHIAS ASKEW. Here's a quick comparison of Askew and Johnson:

Askew--6'5" 308lbs. came out as a Jr. last year.
Jr. Stats (at Michigan St.): 69 tackles, 6 sacks, and 17 QB pressures--Named 1st team all Big 10

Johnson--6'4" 305lbs. coming out after senior year
Sr. Stats (at Florida State): 50 tackles, 2.5 sacks

They have similar size, similar age, and would have had similar values had Askew stayed around for his senior season. But there's the difference maker. Askew already has a year in the Bengals orginization. He knows the system and could step in this year to be a force. Johnson would need time to learn. Ahead of him would be Thornton and Robinson--this year's starters, Askew--last year's 4th rounder who will see a lot of time this year, and Langston Moore--who played a LOT after the Tony Williams injury and played surprisingly well, and Powell--who plays both end and tackle and brings much needed veteran leadership to the huddle. I don't see DT as a 1st-round need. Or even a draft need. IMO, DT should now join CB and QB on Marvin's "Do Not Draft List."

If Pollack was drafted and Smith left next year (It's not likely at all because of the success that this franchise is expected to have in the near future), then Cincy would have a pair of young speedy pass-rushing defensive ends in Pollack and Robert Geathers. They would need help in run support from Simmons and Hardy (or whoever will be OLB in 2006), but what ends don't need support from their linebackers?

I can only hope that the Bengals draft Pollack and all opposing O-lines double him. Smith had 8 sacks last season when he was receiving all the attention from other offenses. How many will he get facing 1-on-1 blocking? 15? More? I would LOVE to see teams double Pollack this year. I don't know where you're getting information that says Smith has fallen. According to NFL.com, he had his career-high in tackles last year and was .5 sacks behind his rookie mark of 8.5.
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JCool333


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 10, 2005 11:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You put down Justin Smith as DT...and Im pretty sure the Bengals play 4-3, meaning that even iif Askew is starting, he still can. And yes, he is placed over Clemons. Besides, he would be BPA over Pollack. Even if he woudlnt start, he could lose weight and move to DE or provide depth...

If Marvin Lewis isnt a poor drafter, which I dont think he is, he will go BPA.

Also, He came out of high school as the most sought after defensive player. Travis AJohnson was a TSN All-Freshman DT in his freshman year. he also isnt a pass rush DT. he is a run stuffer...

Also, could you post the link where you got those stats from, cuz i think those are changed a bit...
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