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Time For Some Hawk Discussion
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CactusPackFan


Joined: 07 May 2007
Posts: 761
Location: AZ
PostPosted: Sat Oct 25, 2014 7:48 am    Post subject: Time For Some Hawk Discussion Reply with quote

AJ Hawk was a top 10 pick for us. I think it's fair to say he's not played at the level of a top 10 pick for most, if not all of his career. I understand that he does a decent job of calling the defenses out there, but let's look at some facts concerning his play:

1. He's always been a liability in pass coverage.
2. He rarely plays down hill, and typically gets driven to the side or
pushed back when tackling.
3. In pass blitz situations, he routinely over-pursues, and runs right by the
passer, sticking an arm out and thinking that will make the QB go down.

4. I have not seen him be the sure tackler against the run, either.
5. He does not play at all with a mean streak--frankly, I think he's too
nice.

My intent here is not to start a Hawk hater thread, but realistically, I want to understand from the forum, what keeps our coaching staff so high on him year after year?
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persiandud


Joined: 08 Oct 2011
Posts: 1154
Location: Davis, CA
PostPosted: Sat Oct 25, 2014 7:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

1. Been in the system for a while now.
2. He's decent.
3. ILB isn't a huge need compared to other positions on defense.
4. Seems like a good locker room guy/good intangibles.
5. TT drafted him and he doesn't completely suck.

Hawk gets too much stick here, IMO.
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incognito_man


Joined: 11 Jan 2007
Posts: 32274
Location: Madison
PostPosted: Sat Oct 25, 2014 8:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hawk as/is a very good to great pick from his draft class.
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PAKKUHRZ


Joined: 30 Jan 2013
Posts: 471
Location: USA
PostPosted: Sat Oct 25, 2014 8:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Apparently, the coaching staff disagrees with your assessment.

Also, he's missed 2 games in 8+ years, which for this team means a lot.
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AlexGreen#20


Joined: 13 Jun 2012
Posts: 7048
PostPosted: Sat Oct 25, 2014 9:07 am    Post subject: Re: Time For Some Hawk Discussion Reply with quote

CactusPackFan wrote:
AJ Hawk was a top 10 pick for us. I think it's fair to say he's not played at the level of a top 10 pick for most, if not all of his career. I understand that he does a decent job of calling the defenses out there, but let's look at some facts concerning his play:

1. He's always been a liability in pass coverage.
2. He rarely plays down hill, and typically gets driven to the side or
pushed back when tackling.
3. In pass blitz situations, he routinely over-pursues, and runs right by the
passer, sticking an arm out and thinking that will make the QB go down.

4. I have not seen him be the sure tackler against the run, either.
5. He does not play at all with a mean streak--frankly, I think he's too
nice.

My intent here is not to start a Hawk hater thread, but realistically, I want to understand from the forum, what keeps our coaching staff so high on him year after year?


You make these claims without any sort of evidence. What makes you say the things you do?
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mikemike778


Joined: 27 Feb 2011
Posts: 259
PostPosted: Sat Oct 25, 2014 9:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

One of those players who is average and will do a job but upgradeable. Ultimately you aren't going to have 22 elite starters and with the nature of the salary cap system there are always going to be bigger holes on your roster than guys who are average and durable.

I'm sure if a stud ILB fell to TT he would grab him but presumably TT thinks Hawk is acceptable enough to not make it necessary to chase an upgrade in his spot.
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Mazrimiv


Joined: 01 Jan 2013
Posts: 459
PostPosted: Sat Oct 25, 2014 9:24 am    Post subject: Re: Time For Some Hawk Discussion Reply with quote

CactusPackFan wrote:
My intent here is not to start a Hawk hater thread, but realistically, I want to understand from the forum, what keeps our coaching staff so high on him year after year?

The former seems much more likely, and I'm not sure how the latter can be achieved on a fan forum.

The coaching staff plays the hand they are dealt. Hawk has consistently been one of top 2 ILB's on the roster, and that's why he continues to play. No more complicated than that.

I was hopeful that ILB would be upgraded in the draft, but when Mosley went off the board I'm not sure there was much left to target.
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Mr.RodgersNeighborhood


Joined: 01 Mar 2009
Posts: 1045
Location: Vermont
PostPosted: Sat Oct 25, 2014 9:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hawk boils down to one simple concept:

Consistency

He avoids injury
He plays at an adequate - above-average level
He knows the system
There is not a significant upgrade readily available

Hawk discussion done
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Mazrimiv


Joined: 01 Jan 2013
Posts: 459
PostPosted: Sat Oct 25, 2014 9:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

incognito_man wrote:
Hawk as/is a very good to great pick from his draft class.

That really was a terrible year to hold the #5 pick
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Skypilot


Joined: 14 Dec 2013
Posts: 999
PostPosted: Sat Oct 25, 2014 9:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hawk's a TT favorite, who has a large fan following (lot's of #50 jerseys sold), and AJ is the ultimate company boy. It's as simple as that.

The coaches disagree? Maybe, maybe not. If their boss (TT) wants Hawk out there, he will play. Nothing like a starting ILB getting $5.5 million a year to be a "decent, durable liability" at best, to force their hand. That's why whomever is playing next to Hawk (Jones, Lattimore and soon enough, Barrington) will get an inordinate amount of flak from many Hawk fans, while AJ enjoys sacred cow status.

So, we have to come up with statements like 'ILB isn't a priority position', while fans project ILB the past few years and in 2015 draft as the top team priority, now that safety has been fortified. Cognitive dissonance.
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Stevein2012


Joined: 12 Jul 2013
Posts: 535
PostPosted: Sat Oct 25, 2014 9:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Average enough to want to upgrade but good enough to be difficult to upgrade. He's fine.
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Tongue-Splitter


Joined: 30 Aug 2013
Posts: 3449
PostPosted: Sat Oct 25, 2014 9:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I won't say I don't get frustrated with Hawk because I do, but he's probably the most reliable defensive Packer I can remember. I can't remember him ever being injured. That's a pro right there. Also, it's not like he's the worst inside linebacker in the league, and he's a pretty damn good guy.
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Skypilot


Joined: 14 Dec 2013
Posts: 999
PostPosted: Sat Oct 25, 2014 9:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tongue-Splitter wrote:
I won't say I don't get frustrated with Hawk because I do, but he's probably the most reliable defensive Packer I can remember. I can't remember him ever being injured. That's a pro right there. Also, it's not like he's the worst inside linebacker in the league, and he's a pretty damn good guy.


Agree on all counts, except reliable. He durable/accountable, but not a consistent or reliable defender on the field. AJ will disappear over long stretches, even entire seasons (2011-12). He's JAG. $60 million over 10 years for JAG. Wow. That more $$$ than Ray Lewis or Patrick Willis made for much of their careers. You know your GM loves you at that figure.
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Tongue-Splitter


Joined: 30 Aug 2013
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 25, 2014 10:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Skypilot wrote:
$60 million over 10 years for JAG. Wow. That more $$$ than Ray Lewis or Patrick Willis made for much of their careers. You know your GM loves you at that figure.

He was a top five pick before the rookie salary cap you freaking dolt. He's making 2.45 million this year. 2.45 million next year. Willis is making 5.285 million this year (over twice as much if you don't have your calculator handy) and 7.935 million next year (over three times as much if you don't have somebody to hold your hand through your calculations).
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blueswedeshoes


Joined: 08 Jun 2011
Posts: 1597
Location: WisKAHNsin
PostPosted: Sat Oct 25, 2014 10:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I get the AJ Hawk criticism, but it usually comes from fans who don't know that much about football. I get how it SEEMS that he is an unspectacular player who should have been replaced years ago, but he is exactly what we hoped to get out of a bad first round.

That was a sucky draft as you all recall. Do it over and AJ still gets drafted #5 or #6 with Ngata and Vernon Davis drafted ahead of him. He was promised as a high floor/low ceiling ten year starter and that is exactly what we got.
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