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Angelo's selection of Lovie Smith
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purdueman


Joined: 11 Jan 2005
Posts: 694
PostPosted: Thu Mar 17, 2005 7:47 pm    Post subject: Angelo's selection of Lovie Smith Reply with quote

Speaking of unispired moves, anybody still applauding Angelo for picking politically correct and much less expensive Lovie Smith over a whole host of other more experienced head coaches?

Smith has about all the fire of a wet canvas on Survivor. Hiring Terry Shea turned out to be a whopper of a mistake and then putting his faith in Shea to bring in Johnathon Quinn turned out last year to kill our entire season.

Now we have to go to yet another entirely new offense with no real experienced backup quarterback and a starting quarterback coming off of one of the most major injuries in all of sport (a torn ACL).

Signing John Tate to play ROT was another Angelo boner, spurred on through being naive and thinking that Tate would be key to running the west coast offense without any proven receivers and the A-Trolly as the backup running back.

With the exception of basically losing Rosie Colvin due to the inept and embarrassing Holdman debacle, Angelo has done a stellar job addressing the defense and has basically turned over the entire defensive line for the better. But let's face it gang; Lovie Smith is a defensive coordinator just as - Jauron before him was and between he and Angelo they seem totally clueless when it comes to the offensive side of the ball.
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GRRLacher


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 17, 2005 8:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I applaud it... I think Lovie is a very good head coach. Like any new head coach it takes some time to figure things out. But he was not afraid to admit that Shea was a mistake, and replace him with a qualified O.Coordinator. Rivera was a great choice as D.Coordinator - and my only regret on the D side of the ball is that we didn't make a serious effort to bring Singletary here to coach the backers.

Most coaches these days have to be politically correct.. hell - even Parcells watches his mouth. Everything I've read about Lovie from former players is how much they respect him, and how they worked hard for him because of that respect. Give the man a chance... I think he will produce for all of us fans.
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purdueman


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 17, 2005 8:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ok, firing Shea was obviously a good move but the jury's really out as to whether or not rehiring Turner was the best available alternative.

I read a great quote from an SI writer on the signing of Mohammad. He said: "Chicago is where receivers go to die". Unfortunately he's pretty much spot on if you look back at the 20 years or so Willie Gault has left the building and Turner's stated penchant for the running game with only Thomas Jones and a whole bunch of low round draft picks currently behind him on the depth chart doesn't exactly right now get my endorsement.

That's why the Bears should draft a running back. The running game makes the passing game go and if all the Bears have is Thomas Jones, it ain't gonna (go, that is).
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DABEARS


Joined: 28 Dec 2004
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 17, 2005 9:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

the running game can only go if there is someone who can scare the 8th man out of the box and i dont agree that jones is not the answer - he almost had 1000 yards last year with 8 men in the box all year long and with some injury problems. i agree we need a backup in the 2nd round but we dont need a feature back - there is too much depth this year to pick a rb with the #4.

Lovie has put some much needed energy into this team - you can't say he was a bad choice until you know the results when he can shape this team for the future.


Last edited by DABEARS on Thu Mar 17, 2005 9:33 pm; edited 1 time in total
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W.PAYTONS#1FAN


Joined: 03 Feb 2005
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 17, 2005 9:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Purdueman,

As much as I respect your Bear knowledge I have to wholeheartedlty disagree with you on this one, I think Smith will turn out to be a fine HC and is a perfect fit for our blue collar city ( I know I live in WI, but CHICAGO is where my heart is at) .
I think players play VERY hard for him and also act right under his leadership, he even had David Terrell saying all the right things all year!
I just honestly think last year we had to many injurys to compete with any HC.
Also the signing or Tait will pay off HUGE this year with him moving to LT to protect our boy REX's blindside, now that we have a good RT this line has got to be a top 10 I would think?
So I'm going with GRRRRRLACHER on this one ( also one of my favorite knowledge guys on this forum) and saying WE LOVE LOVIE!!.
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purdueman


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 17, 2005 9:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

1000 yards for a RB in a season USED to mean something, but just as is the case with 500 career home runs in baseball, no more. With four more games in addition to what USED to be a valid measurement of a good running back, it's become more of a longevity measurement than a measurement of a good back.

It's not that I'd "down on Lovie"; it's just that Lovie's clearly a DEFENSIVE coach and has that deer in the headlight look in his eyes when it comes to offense. Ditto to date for Angelo.

Yes, we have to give him at least 4 years before evaluating him, however, having to switch offensive schemes for the third time in three years just keeps us going in reverse.

As for the depth this year at running back, the question is would you rather have one Tomlinson or two Jones's???

We already have a stud possession receiver in Mohammad and a potential burner in Barrian. What we need now is a feature back that can stop the 8 in the box crap.
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GRRLacher


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 17, 2005 11:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
What we need now is a feature back that can stop the 8 in the box crap.


A feature back does not STOP eight in the box, he promotes it. The passing game is what will stop eight in the box. You have to have something to scare the defense... it can be your passing game or your running game - doesn't matter. Either way you give the defense something to be fearful of... which in turn helps the other part of your offense succeed.

The Bears have not had a fearful passing or running attack in many years... and that needs to change. I really believe that the passing attack is what will open up this year... despite the fact that Turner will push the "run then pass" philosophy during his tenure. Grossman is potentially a very good QB in my opinion... and by giving him a veteran possession receiver in Moose, along with a stud rookie WR in either Williams or Edwards capped by having a strong offensive line tells me that this could be the year that the passing attack wakes up in Chi-Town. Which in turn will make TJ a 1300yd rushing and 500yd receiving RB.
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DABEARS


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 18, 2005 12:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

true dat GRRLAcher!
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Jack


Joined: 05 Mar 2005
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 18, 2005 12:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

totally in agreement grrlacher, as much as i am campeigning for williams, i would not mind braylon edwards, i just think the bears need to draft a WR like what grrlacher said, not to mention, with the bears being the "place of injuries" it has been in the past, what would happen if muhammed went down w/an injury, then we are in the same situation we were in last yr, w/eight men in the box and no one to throw to, w/no running attack, yeah the o-line might be able to give grossman time to throw, but who is going to be open? looking at last yr's debacle...no one will be open, thats why i say take a WR in the 1st (pref. williams, but its not that i wouldnt mind edwards, i just think williams is better) and then take a RB/LB in the 2nd. plus with how well our scouting team has been in the last couple years finding gems in the later rounds of the draft, im sure we could find a very capable RB/LB (which ever one we dont take in the 2nd round) in the later rounds. and for all of you who think that a RB would be a good fix for the 1st round....IF for some reason jones goes down, we wouldnt have as big of a problem as we would if muhammed goes down, since this yr's draft is so deep at RB, its like saying a 3rd rounder of this yr, would = an 2nd rounder of last yrs...since its so deep a draft at RB that taking a RB in the 2nd round would not be that bad if jones went down....not to mention that you guys have all been saying that it doesnt take long for a RB to be good in the NFL, so a 2nd round RB would save us if T.Jones went down w/an injury......that again is why i say take a WR in the 1st, RB in the 2nd, trade up to get a 3rd rounder and grab a LB/K, the rest of the picks should go based on depth



P.S. sorry about the mel kiper forum, i didnt know that you couldnt copy and paste something like that, my bad
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purdueman


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 18, 2005 2:26 pm    Post subject: 8 in the box Reply with quote

I only agree with you in part. If, as was the case with the Bears last year, you have NO passing game whatsoever, than yes, you will draw defensive 8 in the box schemes. The difference, however, is that when you're running the one dimensional A-Trolly off tackle, up the middle or off guard, there's nothing really else to worry about.

On the flip side, however, if you have a Mc Alister or (projected), Brown who can break to the outside with guards and tackles that can pull effectively, you can still break 8 in the box defenses even without a legitimate passing game. We saw Walter Payton do this effectively for years until Willie Gault came along.

So if you have a one dimensional offense, you're likely to get 8 in the box against it. The Bears now though have Mohammad so why wouldn't you want to upgrade if you can at running back? After all, a second fresh pair of legs to rotate with Jonesy can really wear down a defense.
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GRRLacher


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 18, 2005 2:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The flaw in your philosophy purdueman is that you are comparing T.Jones, or Brown to the greatest RB ever to play the game. Of course Payton could get past an eight man front, so could Barry Sanders. These guys are once in a lifetime players. Even the best backs in the NFL right now ... Holmes, Tomlinson, C-Mart, Lewis and Alexander (to name a few) can not break through an eight man front on a consistant basis unless they have a passing game to keep the defense honest.

Quote:
After all, a second fresh pair of legs to rotate with Jonesy can really wear down a defense


I don't want to watch another year of trying to wear down a defense.. I want points on the board. And assuming that the team stays healthy I think we can put a formidable passing attack on the field every week - one that will make defenses actually game plan against it. Which in turn will give TJ (or whomever is at the TB position) 7 man fronts to run against. A passing attack also opens up the draw play for you... and I'm sure that TJ would love to get the ball and see a big gap in the line and the LBs retreating into pass coverage. It would be a beautiful thing.
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Jack


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 18, 2005 4:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

yes purdueman, i agree with you, but not with the #4 overall selecetion.....get a solid RB in the 2nd round that can get outside, Jones has excellent speed, if i remember right he has 4.4 speed, that speed can definatly get you outside the tackles, i agree with you that it would be nice to get a RB, just not in the 1st round, WR 1st, RB/LB 2nd,

it wouldnt suprise me if the bears take a RB in the 4th round, and go after a LB/K in the 2nd round, being that this draft is deep at RB im sure the scouting team could find another gem amongst the bunch


P.S. i didnt think anything of it when it happened, but the loss of our 3rd round pick is kinda leaving us short handed, i mean dont get me wrong i loved having o-gun on our team, but the 3rd rounder is proving to be a tough situation for the bears, because if they had a 3rd rounder on the 1st day we could grab all our needs 1st-WR, 2nd-LB, 3rd-K, and 4th RB (RB in the 4th just because of how deep this draft has been) plus after the 3rd round, the scouts get a day to see who fell through the cracks thus making the 4th round selection quite intersting
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purdueman


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 19, 2005 12:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm not at all trying to compare either Barry Sanders or Walter Payton to Thomas Jones; all that I'm saying is that either Brown or Benson COULD turn into the next great NFL running back and we'd all be left crying at the alter if the Bears passed on one of these guys and they went on to become NFL great backs.

Williams or Edwards may turn into nice receivers, but personally I think that both Benson and Brown have better shots at becoming "franchise" players. JMO.

As for the depth of the draft at RB? It's certainly a valid point and Denver management has made a career out of finding great backs in later rounds, however, you still can't coach speed, instinct and strength so the odds still favor going early with a guy who possesses all three.
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potentia_ceteri


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 19, 2005 7:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

While I believe that GRRRlacher won all of the arguments that purdueman tried to present, I would have to agree with purdueman on picking an RB in the first. Personally I believe that all three RBs(Benson, Williams, Brown) and the top recievers(Williams and Edwards) will become great players, but RB is of a higher need to the bears and is a position that requires a bigger set of skills. As a receiver, you are asked to do what? Catch and block. With the Running backs they take both those as secondary duties as well as their featured skill of running the ball. After the QB, it's the running back that has the most influence on an offense. If Favre did not have a very good RB, I don't believe he would be as great as he is. He could get by on average-good receivers, but without an RB(Levens, Green), every team would go straight for him like head hunters. A brown or benson or williams would give the bears more stability on offense and give TJ a break once and awhile. Fresh legs all the time at RB is crucial, especially with all the things bears asked him to do last year. You might be arguing, what about a second round back? Well because the second round receivers are much more talented than the second round backs. After Williams, Edwards, Williamson, and Clayton in the first, the second still holds Henry, White, Mathis, Gibson. All those second rounders might not be very polished, but they have the potentials of pro bowlers and beyond. After the top trio of backs, the second round is a little murky. You have Fason who has the tools of Fred Taylor but has no idea what to do with them. That's you next best back. Then there is Vernand Morency who is a playmaker with a good build and very good speed, but he comes in at a smallish 5'9", is older than average, and is very raw and inexperienced. Are those the back you wish to share the load with TJ? they might turn out better than i described, but they aren't much better than the 3rd or even 4th tier backs in the draft. Marion Barber, Kay-Jay Harris, and Ryan Moats are only three backs I like better than those two and they can be had in the fourth. Benson or brown would be the best complement to TJ(Cadillac wouldn't be bad either), but I believe that Benson would be best available. One more note: If TEs Alex Smith or Heath Miller would drop to the second in our laps, I would snatch them right away before a receiver. Both are very well-rounded TEs with a great aptitude for learning and improvement. If I had to choose though, I would pick Smith. While Miller is a better blocker and very good receiver, he will never be a playmaker as a receiver. Smith looks like a more natural receiver with great hands and athleticism. The bears could use all the receivers they can get, and Smith provides that and depth at TE.
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GRRLacher


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 19, 2005 7:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
After the QB, it's the running back that has the most influence on an offense


True for teams with a great RB... but those teams with an average RB and a top notch reciever push those duties to the WR. Basically whichever position you are strongest at is what you will use the most. Randy Moss opened the running game in Minnesota... while a guy like LT opens the passing attack for the Chargers. Quite honestly I don't care which way we go - but we need to put fear in the hearts of the defenders by ground or by air - doesn't matter because one opens the door for the other to be successful.

I still go with my original position that if the Bears draft an RB with the fourth overall then they are planning on pushing TJ out the door in a year or so. We have a decent/good RB in Jones... but we are in dire need of another good WR to help Grossman (and T.Jones) out.... not to mention we still have a hole at TE - hopefully that will get filled through FA.
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