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Braylon Edwards the #4 pick

 
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Griese2Clayton


Joined: 08 Mar 2005
Posts: 80
Location: Mike Williamsville, FL
PostPosted: Sun Mar 13, 2005 12:00 pm    Post subject: Braylon Edwards the #4 pick Reply with quote

Would be nice to move down and get more picks, right?

Not gonna happen.

Forget about taking a RB with #4. Still too early to admit TJ is a flop. Anyway there are plenty of RB's later in this draft.

Forget about Mike Williams. Not when a slightly smaller version is available with the speed Angelo wants. 4.45?

Michigan Pro Day is March 18th. Don't expect to actually see Jerry Angelo there. That's cuz he'll be wearing a disguise. Cool
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bringbackditka


Joined: 27 Jan 2005
Posts: 380
PostPosted: Sun Mar 13, 2005 1:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think you're right on all counts, especially the disguise. I'm fine with Edwards, but I would prefer Williams. He's a guy who I think will make teaams regret not drafting him. If we pass on him, I'd rather see the Bucs take him than the Vikes.
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GoLions17


Joined: 29 Jan 2005
Posts: 1549
Location: Chi-Town
PostPosted: Sun Mar 13, 2005 3:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

never. if the bears draft another offensive play from michigan it will just prove once again what terell and a-train proved. take williams
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bringbackditka


Joined: 27 Jan 2005
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 13, 2005 3:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think Edwards will end up being a productive player. It's silly to think he'll be a bust because of his school.

I also prefer Williams.
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Bernie Mac


Joined: 08 Jan 2005
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Location: Chicago
PostPosted: Sun Mar 13, 2005 3:57 pm    Post subject: Hello Reply with quote

Although i think that Mike Williams is a great player, i wouldnt be pissed off if the bears select Braylon Edwards. Look at how well he did with a freshman quarterback and he destroyed the Texas secondary in the Rose Bowl. Its not fair to compare him to David Terrel just like its not fair to compare Benson the Ricky Williams.
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potentia_ceteri


Joined: 13 Feb 2005
Posts: 96
Location: chicago
PostPosted: Sun Mar 13, 2005 3:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

no way is Edwards a smaller faster Williams. Edwards may be faster and could turn out to be very productive, but Williams is one level higher if not more on most notable characteristics of a prototype receiver. I see Edwards topping out as a stronger but less talented(much less)Torry Holt. And I reiterate my stance on Williams being a bigger, potentially stronger TO with the talent to be more. I believe edwards would be a very good pick for the middle rounds if the bears choose to trade down that far, but I just think that besides Williams, there is no receiver good enough to take that high at fourth. ronnie brown, derrick johnson, williams are the players of need I think have the talent merit the fourth pick. otherwise it would be smart to trade down.
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Ryno53


Joined: 07 Mar 2005
Posts: 48
Location: Crystal Lake, IL
PostPosted: Sun Mar 13, 2005 4:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's funny how everyone always mentions the Texas game with Edwards. Was that his only game??? As I recall it was David Terrell's big games against Ohio State with Drew Henson that everyone remebered when he was being hyped up. Look what happened to him. Edwards is the same, one or two big games, then a few no-shows.

If you watched a lot of Big Ten football as I did you would know there were times where Braylon Edwards was a ghost. Not only that, he would drop easy 10 yard passes that a high schooler could catch with one arm.

By the way, that freshman quarterback that threw to Edwards, was Henne, one of the top young talents in college football. Coach Carr has never started a true freshman ever. Drew Henson, Brian Griese, Elvis Gerbac, and Tom Brady never saw the field as freshman. What does that tell you about Henne???
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GRRLacher


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Joined: 07 Mar 2005
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 13, 2005 6:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

potentia_ceteri,

I like the way you think man... but there is no way that the Bears are gonna use the fourth overall to take a DJ - a def player. They need tons more help on the other side of the ball. With a good young QB, and TJ running strong behind the veteran line I couldn't think of anything better than Williams lining up opposite Moose... that turns into a 100% better offense than what we had last year. The defense is gonna be tough "as is"... Urlacher, O-gun, brown, Peanut all injured last year. With all of them back healthy and a good offense to help keep them off the field they are playoff bound.
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purdueman


Joined: 11 Jan 2005
Posts: 694
PostPosted: Sun Mar 13, 2005 10:18 pm    Post subject: Oh dear God, not another Michigan player! Reply with quote

[quote="GoLions17"]never. if the bears draft another offensive play from michigan it will just prove once again what terell and a-train proved. take williams[/quote]
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The only difference (scouting wise), between David Terrell and Braylon Edwards is that Terrell was CONSISTENTLY dominent during his collegiate career where Edwards is being rated basically on his one big (and final) game (last years Rose Bowl).

We dodged one bullet when Warner, his bible thumping routine and pain in the arse wife went (thankfully), to Phoenix, let's hope we dodge another one by not even getting the chance to screw up this years draft by having Edwards still on the board when we pick. Please Lord?

I agree too that Mike Williams isn't worth the 4th overall pick. Cedric Benson's not a match with Thomas Jones for a two back backfield. Brown's the guy we truly need; either Brown or trade down to pick up another pick to offset the one we had to deal to Miami and still stay in the mid-first round and grab a true burner like Williamson at WR.
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Jack


Joined: 05 Mar 2005
Posts: 4173
PostPosted: Mon Mar 14, 2005 12:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I posted part of this in another forum so dont be pissed if u read it already...

I hope the bears DON'T take a RB in the 1st round. I like Mike Williams, the dude catches EVERYTHING in sight, not to mention he is HUGE, at 6-5 , and built, he is the perfect red zone target. I dont like Braylon Edwards as much as Mike Williams, I know he has "burner" speed but what is going to produce more points consistantly? "Burner" speed, or red-zone target?? None of this talk about a RB is going to help us, with another RB the bears will again have another terrible year because they will have 8 men in the box, and I know that moose will sometimes carry double coverage, but there is only going to be 1 RB on the field, they wont do a double RB like they said they were going to do last year with TJ and A-train. I say draft Williams if he is there, if not, get Edwards, and if edwards isnt there, then trade down to aquire more picks and pick up Williamson w/one of those picks. Take a RB in the 2nd round if they want a RB so badly, a RB in the 1st round wont do us no good.

Are you guys forgeting that at the beginning of the year w/a healthy offense, T.Jones lead the league in rushing, his production only fell when Rex went down and the defense's realized that none of our QBs were a threat to them so they stacked the line against T. Jones. It is not hard to defend a 1 dimensional team, like they did ALL last year, which is why we were 32nd in the league in offense. Take a WR, that leaves our offense 20x better than last year with 2 solid WRs and a hell of a RB in T.Jones we will have Hutch and another veteran QB as a backups, plus a revamped o-line w/tait at LT, and Miller at RT, and a capable backup for either pos. in Mitchell (i know he wasnt the best, but as a backup i'll take him). and pro-bowlers rueben brown and olin, w/mike gandy being the other OG....that is a HELL of an offense guys, and you guys want to spoil that with taking a RB in the 1st round that will not help us next year.


Williams Tait--Brown--Olin--Gandy--Miller Moose
Rex

Jones


looks a hell of a lot better than:



Gage/Wade/Berrian Tait--Brown--Olin--Gandy--Miller Moose
Rex

Jones/Brown
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Jack


Joined: 05 Mar 2005
Posts: 4173
PostPosted: Mon Mar 14, 2005 12:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I posted part of this in another forum so dont be pissed if u read it already...

I hope the bears DON'T take a RB in the 1st round. I like Mike Williams, the dude catches EVERYTHING in sight, not to mention he is HUGE, at 6-5 , and built, he is the perfect red zone target. I dont like Braylon Edwards as much as Mike Williams, I know he has "burner" speed but what is going to produce more points consistantly? "Burner" speed, or red-zone target?? None of this talk about a RB is going to help us, with another RB the bears will again have another terrible year because they will have 8 men in the box, and I know that moose will sometimes carry double coverage, but there is only going to be 1 RB on the field, they wont do a double RB like they said they were going to do last year with TJ and A-train. I say draft Williams if he is there, if not, get Edwards, and if edwards isnt there, then trade down to aquire more picks and pick up Williamson w/one of those picks. Take a RB in the 2nd round if they want a RB so badly, a RB in the 1st round wont do us no good.

Are you guys forgeting that at the beginning of the year w/a healthy offense, T.Jones lead the league in rushing, his production only fell when Rex went down and the defense's realized that none of our QBs were a threat to them so they stacked the line against T. Jones. It is not hard to defend a 1 dimensional team, like they did ALL last year, which is why we were 32nd in the league in offense. Take a WR, that leaves our offense 20x better than last year with 2 solid WRs and a hell of a RB in T.Jones we will have Hutch and another veteran QB as a backups, plus a revamped o-line w/tait at LT, and Miller at RT, and a capable backup for either pos. in Mitchell (i know he wasnt the best, but as a backup i'll take him). and pro-bowlers rueben brown and olin, w/mike gandy being the other OG....that is a HELL of an offense guys, and you guys want to spoil that with taking a RB in the 1st round that will not help us next year.


Williams Tait--Brown--Olin--Gandy--Miller Moose
Rex

Jones


looks a hell of a lot better than:



Gage/Wade/Berrian Tait--Brown--Olin--Gandy--Miller Moose
Rex

Jones/Brown
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purdueman


Joined: 11 Jan 2005
Posts: 694
PostPosted: Mon Mar 14, 2005 2:20 pm    Post subject: Edwards, Williams or running back? Reply with quote

Are you guys forgeting that at the beginning of the year w/a healthy offense, T.Jones lead the league in rushing, his production only fell when Rex went down and the defense's realized that none of our QBs were a threat to them so they stacked the line against T. Jones. It is not hard to defend a 1 dimensional team, like they did ALL last year, which is why we were 32nd in the league in offense. Take a WR, that leaves our offense 20x better than last year with 2 solid WRs and a hell of a RB in T.Jones we will have Hutch and another veteran QB as a backups, plus a revamped o-line w/tait at LT, and Miller at RT, and a capable backup for either pos. in Mitchell (i know he wasnt the best, but as a backup i'll take him). and pro-bowlers rueben brown and olin, w/mike gandy being the other OG....that is a HELL of an offense guys, and you guys want to spoil that with taking a RB in the 1st round that will not help us next year.
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I would rather see you "double post" with conviction than to not create a dialogue that makes this board ultimately interesting.

Your point about 8 (and sometimes even 9), in the box is well taken, but if you were a defensive coordinator facing Craig Freaking Krenzel and the A-Trolly, what would YOU do??? (rhetorical question).

If you've followed Turner's philosophy in coaching, he's really big on getting "separation" between the wide outs across the seams in a zone defense. You can't get separation with two possession receivers; you need at least one "burner" and Williams doesn't have the speed and Edwards has never been a consistent deep threat.

Furthermore, when the defense blitzes, as Brady of New England has shown time and time again, if you have a burner that gets man coverage as a result that you can hit (in his case Branch), you can it not only keeps the defense honest, but breaks games as well.

I'm with you 100% on Williamson for that reason. Willie Gault wasn't a great receiver, but his ability to break open games was the last time we've seen a Bear offense capable of stretching the field and that was almost 20 years ago.

So if we could trade down and pick up a pick while still drafting Williamson, that would be my first choice.

Running backs? Historically only about 40% of first rounders ever turn into impact backs. Just look at our last two... Curtis P.ENIS and pothead Salaam as exhibits A and B.

Cedric Benson is said to be the best overall back in the draft, but he's not a fit with Thomas Jones in the same backfield. Brown on the other hand is supposed to be a gifted receiver in addition to being both a big and a quick back. Outside of John Shoop's ill fated love of the wide receiver screen play (which has NEVER worked in the NFL), we'd have to go back all the way to the days of Walter Payton to find a back who can catch the ball in the flat and go around 8 in a box. Brown has that ability.

Cadillac Williams? Not worth the 4th overall pick in the draft.

Hence, my first preference is to trade down, my second is to hope that Brown is still there when the Bears pick, then grab him. I don't think that Brown will be there, however, because either Tampa Bay will trade up from the #5 spot to take him, or Miami will work out a deal for Edgrin James and trade the pick to Indy who will then take him.

This is one time I'd hate to be Angelo!

O-line? Correction to your post. Gandy is now a Buffalo Bill. Last I read, Bears are penciling in Metcalf to be the starting right guard with Q. in reserve. Look for Tucker to be cut June 1st because: a) he's washed up; and b) cap reasons.
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Bernie Mac


Joined: 08 Jan 2005
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 14, 2005 6:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well Ryno, we all forget that who was the QB that threw to Mike Williams. Oh yeah Matt Leinert who i think won the Heisman trophy and would have been the #1 pick this year. Henne isnt anything special. Name the last QB other than Tom Brady the most complete system quarterback since Joe Montana to do anything. Oh yeah You cant. Hold me to the point that Braylon is going to be a pretty damn good reciever. Cause he will be.
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Jack


Joined: 05 Mar 2005
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 14, 2005 10:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

purdueman--sorry about the double posts, it wasnt letting me submit the 1st time so i clicked it again, and sorry about the mike gandy at OG....i forgot he left for buffalo....anyways i still dont like the fact of RB w/the #4 pick, also in reguards to a burner running past a blitzing defense, it can also hold that true if you have a BIG target to throw to like w/Williams. If a QB is being blitzed he doent have the time to throw a pin-point accuracy neede to hit a burner in stride away from the cover man, Brady is unique, he's a HELL of a QB, and one that never warries under pressure, that is an uncommon characteristic in QBs, most QBs need a big target to throw to while being blitzed, Williams is that kind of target, plus i certainly remember a WR taken in the 2nd round a couple years ago, u mighta heard of him....Boldin outa AZ., he had only 4.5 speed but look what he did, he only had 100 catches and over 1,000 yds and made the pro-bowl, as a rookie. Thats why I like Williams, not that im knocking Braylon, but Id rather have Williams big target, especially w/moose taking double teams leaving Williams 1 on 1 in single coverage, at 6-5 all u need to do is pull a "Randy Moss" and out-jump the CB. Why not put the fear that Moss gave us back into the Viks, show them what its like w/a 6-5 WR w/NO attitude problem.

Plus in last year Williams didnt play for the Heismen Trophy winner, the year that Williams played White was the Heismen winner outa OU.
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purdueman


Joined: 11 Jan 2005
Posts: 694
PostPosted: Tue Mar 15, 2005 10:47 am    Post subject: What to do with the 4th overall pick Reply with quote

[quote="Jack"]purdueman--sorry about the double posts, it wasnt letting me submit the 1st time so i clicked it again, and sorry about the mike gandy at OG....i forgot he left for buffalo....anyways i still dont like the fact of RB w/the #4 pick, also in reguards to a burner running past a blitzing defense, it can also hold that true if you have a BIG target to throw to like w/Williams. If a QB is being blitzed he doent have the time to throw a pin-point accuracy neede to hit a burner in stride away from the cover man, Brady is unique, he's a HELL of a QB, and one that never warries under pressure, that is an uncommon characteristic in QBs, most QBs need a big target to throw to while being blitzed, Williams is that kind of target, plus i certainly remember a WR taken in the 2nd round a couple years ago, u mighta heard of him....Boldin outa AZ., he had only 4.5 speed but look what he did, he only had 100 catches and over 1,000 yds and made the pro-bowl, as a rookie. Thats why I like Williams, not that im knocking Braylon, but Id rather have Williams big target, especially w/moose taking double teams leaving Williams 1 on 1 in single coverage, at 6-5 all u need to do is pull a "Randy Moss" and out-jump the CB. Why not put the fear that Moss gave us back into the Viks, show them what its like w/a 6-5 WR w/NO attitude problem.

Plus in last year Williams didnt play for the Heismen Trophy winner, the year that Williams played White was the Heismen winner outa OU.[/quote]
****************************************
While Williams has shown an uncanny ability to catch the uncatchable ball, he also was known for very David Terrell like drops of routine throws too. The scouts though will know better than you or I if he has the desired big, soft hands for the NFL or not.

Something that is rarely written about is the difference in footballs between college and pro. The pro ball is harder (which also makes it much more slipery on cold days), and it's just enough bigger to where it can make a difference if a wide out doesn't have large hands.

This years draft should be chaotic as I look for a lot of wheeling and dealing on draft day. The 49'ers don't seem enamoured with anyone enough to justify the signing bonus that goes with the 1st overall pick. Saban has publicly stated he wants to trade out of the #2 spot.

Cleveland seems solid though at #3, taking either Brown, Edwards or the top linebacker or cover corner available.

Bears could wind up with the 4th pick and both Smith and Rogers still on the board, an ideal situation for trading down.
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