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Broncos Trade for G Allen Barbre (Conditional Pick)
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Broncofan


Joined: 02 Dec 2013
Posts: 3609
PostPosted: Wed Jul 26, 2017 5:50 pm    Post subject: Broncos Trade for G Allen Barbre (Conditional Pick) Reply with quote

I posted this in the OL thread, but should get its own thread, for Barbre's sake too.

So the Broncos just traded with the Eagles for Allen Barbre, who while able to play a few positions, is best as an interior OL. Isaac Seumalo was going to win the starting spot, so PHI wanted salary cap relief (2.1M) for a guy no longer starting. Seumalo was the definition of above-average, ranking 23rd out of 72 G's according to PFF. Now, he's going to be 33, so this is a quick-fix, but even if he could be a top 30 G (remember there are 2 starting G's per team, so 60-70 G's will qualify for ranking), that would be a step up from last year, let alone if he can be a top 20 G.

I applaud the move, but this also has to be ominous for how the Broncos see Max Garcia's present and future:

https://twitter.com/RapSheet/status/890312339609833473

This has to be a sign that they aren't comfortable with Garcia as their starting G - first they moved Leary to RG after initially putting him in his old LG spot (Leary said he didn't care which side he played) around to help get Garcia more comfortable in his old position - wonder if they will move Leary back to the left side with this news.

Either way I hope this works out almost as well as Elway scooping up Evan Mathis for a one-year upgrade.
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germ-x


Joined: 06 Apr 2009
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 26, 2017 11:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Barbre is nothing special, but this was a great move. It gives Denver a lot more flexibility along the interior.

Leary has been a pro bowl caliber LG and I didn't like reading that they moved him to RG in order to accommodate Max Garcia (whose reportedly more comfortable at LG). Barbre has experience on both sides of the line and I wouldn't be at all shocked if he's Denver's starting RG, where he'd be an upgrade.

While LG is where almost all of Leary's successful experience is at, it likely also benefits Bolles at LT by having a quality veteran at his side.

This move made a ton of sense for Denver in multiple ways, competition, versatility, depth, and IMO if all goes as planned fitting players into the positions they are more successful iin. That's what great organations do, put players in positions to succeed and not asking for more than they're capable of.
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champ11


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 27, 2017 9:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Garcia is not good.
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BruinBronco


Joined: 26 Jul 2017
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 27, 2017 1:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

From all accounts, Barbre is either a capable, average starter or great depth. What a great move! I think we're all nervous about Garcia in spite of the staff's optimism, looks like they share some of our concerns. The best case scenario is for this to light a fire under Garcia and he steps up but I expect Barbre to win one of the two guard jobs.

I also think this all but guarantees Donald Stephenson is gone. Sambrailo will be the swing guy behind Bolles and Watson, and both Barbre and Schofield have at least a season worth of experience at RT behind him.
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Broncofan


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 27, 2017 1:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

BruinBronco wrote:
From all accounts, Barbre is either a capable, average starter or great depth. What a great move! I think we're all nervous about Garcia in spite of the staff's optimism, looks like they share some of our concerns. The best case scenario is for this to light a fire under Garcia and he steps up but I expect Barbre to win one of the two guard jobs.

I also think this all but guarantees Donald Stephenson is gone. Sambrailo will be the swing guy behind Bolles and Watson, and both Barbre and Schofield have at least a season worth of experience at RT behind him.


Barbre costs 2.1M IIRC while cutting Stephenson saves 2M. So that makes total fiscal sense. Only issue is that if Barbre wins a starting G job then Schofield and Sambrailo are our backup T unless we move Barbre and then start Garcia. Not that I have any faith in Stephenson just that it's a scary prop to have faith in any of those 3 as plan B given Watson's injury risk.
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BruinBronco


Joined: 26 Jul 2017
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 27, 2017 2:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Broncofan wrote:
BruinBronco wrote:
From all accounts, Barbre is either a capable, average starter or great depth. What a great move! I think we're all nervous about Garcia in spite of the staff's optimism, looks like they share some of our concerns. The best case scenario is for this to light a fire under Garcia and he steps up but I expect Barbre to win one of the two guard jobs.

I also think this all but guarantees Donald Stephenson is gone. Sambrailo will be the swing guy behind Bolles and Watson, and both Barbre and Schofield have at least a season worth of experience at RT behind him.


Barbre costs 2.1M IIRC while cutting Stephenson saves 2M. So that makes total fiscal sense. Only issue is that if Barbre wins a starting G job then Schofield and Sambrailo are our backup T unless we move Barbre and then start Garcia. Not that I have any faith in Stephenson just that it's a scary prop to have faith in any of those 3 as plan B given Watson's injury risk.

Well, if two of Bolles, Watson and Sambrailo aren't in the lineup, the move is probably to put Garcia at guard and move Barbre to right tackle. In that disaster scenario, if the starting 5 opens the game healthy, Schofield is probably inactive. Can't carry more than 7 on game day realistically.

Two of the top 3 being injured almost certainly prompts a steeet free agent pickup and frankly there are going to be plenty of players similar to Stephenson's value to choose from if that happens. Overall, I see risk in general with our tackle depth in case of injuries, but not in the form of losing Stephenson who is totally replaceable. He's a scrap heap quality player who wouldn't be active on game days with a healthy lineup anyway and you can always find a bad experienced tackle during the season.
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Broncofan


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 27, 2017 4:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

BruinBronco wrote:
Broncofan wrote:
BruinBronco wrote:
From all accounts, Barbre is either a capable, average starter or great depth. What a great move! I think we're all nervous about Garcia in spite of the staff's optimism, looks like they share some of our concerns. The best case scenario is for this to light a fire under Garcia and he steps up but I expect Barbre to win one of the two guard jobs.

I also think this all but guarantees Donald Stephenson is gone. Sambrailo will be the swing guy behind Bolles and Watson, and both Barbre and Schofield have at least a season worth of experience at RT behind him.


Barbre costs 2.1M IIRC while cutting Stephenson saves 2M. So that makes total fiscal sense. Only issue is that if Barbre wins a starting G job then Schofield and Sambrailo are our backup T unless we move Barbre and then start Garcia. Not that I have any faith in Stephenson just that it's a scary prop to have faith in any of those 3 as plan B given Watson's injury risk.

Well, if two of Bolles, Watson and Sambrailo aren't in the lineup, the move is probably to put Garcia at guard and move Barbre to right tackle. In that disaster scenario, if the starting 5 opens the game healthy, Schofield is probably inactive. Can't carry more than 7 on game day realistically.

Two of the top 3 being injured almost certainly prompts a steeet free agent pickup and frankly there are going to be plenty of players similar to Stephenson's value to choose from if that happens. Overall, I see risk in general with our tackle depth in case of injuries, but not in the form of losing Stephenson who is totally replaceable. He's a scrap heap quality player who wouldn't be active on game days with a healthy lineup anyway and you can always find a bad experienced tackle during the season.


Yeah, I'm not at all worried about Stephenson being missed. It's more that we knew Sambrailo and Schofield were likely depth guys - it's just damning that Garcia is being put in that boat. He was supposed to be one of our cheap pieces to fit not just for this year, but for 2018+. We can't fill out OL with expensive guys, and Barbre is realistically not anything more than a 2017-only fill-in, at his age. Garcia working out at G not only affects 2017, but our 2018+ plans, that's where it's more than a little worrisome to see this play out.

Sooner or later we have to find cheap, viable OL to fill the non-elite spots. Comes back to our previous inability to find OL through the draft. Paradis is the obvious recent exception, of course, but ideally we fill at least 3 spots from the draft internally, and rotate that success rate, so we don't always have to pay top $ for premium positions, or spend our 1st-rounders out of dire need than talent. Maybe McGovern will be the next starter we draft if Garcia doesn't work out. But as Paradis becomes expensive to keep, it's crucial we can find at least 2 (if not more) affordable OL options - Watson is cheap because his injury risk is sky-high, but the odds we crap out going this boom-bust route is too high to sustain. Hopefully guys like McGovern and obviously Bolles can reverse the trend, we need it to sustain long-term viability cap-wise.
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BroncoBruin


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 27, 2017 4:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

McGovern is going to have to be that guy if it's anyone on the roster IMO, Garcia and Schofield don't project to deserve second contracts of any real worth. Bolles, Leary and Paradis are going to be fixtures, the other two spots will continue to be tricky though. If Watson can just be okay and stay healthy at RT, the rest of that contract really isn't terrible. He is the least dependable guy going forward though.
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jsthomp2007


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 27, 2017 7:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

BroncoBruin wrote:
McGovern is going to have to be that guy if it's anyone on the roster IMO, Garcia and Schofield don't project to deserve second contracts of any real worth. Bolles, Leary and Paradis are going to be fixtures, the other two spots will continue to be tricky though. If Watson can just be okay and stay healthy at RT, the rest of that contract really isn't terrible. He is the least dependable guy going forward though.


Thank you for the McGovern shout. Let's give this guy a chance. I want to see him man up with Suh and just push him aside. McGovern has strong as he is, I want to see that translate the NFL trenches.
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BroncoBruin


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 27, 2017 7:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

jsthomp2007 wrote:
BroncoBruin wrote:
McGovern is going to have to be that guy if it's anyone on the roster IMO, Garcia and Schofield don't project to deserve second contracts of any real worth. Bolles, Leary and Paradis are going to be fixtures, the other two spots will continue to be tricky though. If Watson can just be okay and stay healthy at RT, the rest of that contract really isn't terrible. He is the least dependable guy going forward though.


Thank you for the McGovern shout. Let's give this guy a chance. I want to see him man up with Suh and just push him aside. McGovern has strong as he is, I want to see that translate the NFL trenches.

He and Ron Leary would provide some serious muscle as a guard tandem.
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jolly red giant


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 27, 2017 8:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Why the hell is Vance Joseph reported as saying that Barbre was brought in to compete for the starting job at LG.

Surely the sensible thing to do is play Leary at LG alongside the rookie LT and give Barbre the RG job where he would be most useful. It doesn't make sense to me to switch Leary to RG and leave him there with Barbre now here.
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Broncofan


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 27, 2017 9:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

jolly red giant wrote:
Why the hell is Vance Joseph reported as saying that Barbre was brought in to compete for the starting job at LG.

Surely the sensible thing to do is play Leary at LG alongside the rookie LT and give Barbre the RG job where he would be most useful. It doesn't make sense to me to switch Leary to RG and leave him there with Barbre now here.


Leary's already on record as saying he doesn't mind playing RG or LG.

Barbre probably could play RG too, but FWIW he played all of 2016 at LG when he was a starter. And while Barbre is reputed to be better in the run block game, consider this - in 262 pass attempts where Barbre played, he allowed 2 sacks and 14 pressures. Leary's pass pro stats look great, but he had Travis Frederick on 1 side and Tyrone Smith on either side, pass pro is his weakness. So it might be that Barbre might be seen as a better fit to help Bolles in pass pro, which is his weakness at this stage.

http://www.nj.com/eagles/index.ssf/2017/07/releasing_allen_barbre_is_a_mistake_by_the_eagles.html

All of the above is just conjecture (minus the 2016 stats, of course), but if pass pro is the main concern with Bolles, Barbre might be the better partner.
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AKRNA


Joined: 28 May 2008
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 28, 2017 4:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

jolly red giant wrote:
Why the hell is Vance Joseph reported as saying that Barbre was brought in to compete for the starting job at LG.

Surely the sensible thing to do is play Leary at LG alongside the rookie LT and give Barbre the RG job where he would be most useful. It doesn't make sense to me to switch Leary to RG and leave him there with Barbre now here.


Just a guess, but they might be looking for more speed on the left side and road graders on the right. Hard to tell without looking at their playbook.

Garcia and speed will rarely be used in the same sentence.

It'd be interesting to know where Schofields lining up in practice. Could be he's in the running for the LG spot. I've never seen Barbre play but looking at his history he's not an apparent upgrade over Schofield.

We should know more in a week or so.
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jsthomp2007


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 28, 2017 7:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

AKRNA wrote:
jolly red giant wrote:
Why the hell is Vance Joseph reported as saying that Barbre was brought in to compete for the starting job at LG.

Surely the sensible thing to do is play Leary at LG alongside the rookie LT and give Barbre the RG job where he would be most useful. It doesn't make sense to me to switch Leary to RG and leave him there with Barbre now here.


Just a guess, but they might be looking for more speed on the left side and road graders on the right. Hard to tell without looking at their playbook.

Garcia and speed will rarely be used in the same sentence.

It'd be interesting to know where Schofields lining up in practice. Could be he's in the running for the LG spot. I've never seen Barbre play but looking at his history he's not an apparent upgrade over Schofield.

We should know more in a week or so.


I would have to suggest that Barbre is competing for the LG job; he hasn't won the job, yet. After all the Broncos merely gave up a 7th round pick for him.

AKRNA. If the Broncos set up their linemen this way to have speed on the left and the grinders on the right...does this make them overly predictable?
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Broncofan


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 28, 2017 8:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

jsthomp2007 wrote:
AKRNA wrote:
jolly red giant wrote:
Why the hell is Vance Joseph reported as saying that Barbre was brought in to compete for the starting job at LG.

Surely the sensible thing to do is play Leary at LG alongside the rookie LT and give Barbre the RG job where he would be most useful. It doesn't make sense to me to switch Leary to RG and leave him there with Barbre now here.


Just a guess, but they might be looking for more speed on the left side and road graders on the right. Hard to tell without looking at their playbook.

Garcia and speed will rarely be used in the same sentence.

It'd be interesting to know where Schofields lining up in practice. Could be he's in the running for the LG spot. I've never seen Barbre play but looking at his history he's not an apparent upgrade over Schofield.

We should know more in a week or so.


I would have to suggest that Barbre is competing for the LG job; he hasn't won the job, yet. After all the Broncos merely gave up a 7th round pick for him.

AKRNA. If the Broncos set up their linemen this way to have speed on the left and the grinders on the right...does this make them overly predictable?


There aren't any guarantees on where Barbre will start - but I wouldn't read too much into the price paid as to gauging how the staff view his chances. The Eagles actually gifted Barbre for Elway to pay a really low price. They actually announced they were going to cut him earlier that day (they have 8M in cap space left, but only 1M in 2018 cap space left, so every $ counts for them - remember PHI GM Roseman cut Evan Mathis in 2015 under very similar circumstances).

http://www.pennlive.com/philadelphiaeagles/index.ssf/2017/07/philadelphia_eagles_call_rever.html

The thing is, they hadn't filed the paperwork, so Elway just offered them a chance to get more back than nothing by trading the 7th. Once the Eagles had already exposed their intent, so it was an easy to lowball the Eagles given they were getting nothing by cutting him. Still a smart move by Elway, but Phi's announcement paved the way.

Even if Barbre is just a swing OL, his salary cost is minimal even for a backup RT/G, both cap & pick wise (still better than Stephenson, just as expensive), so it's a great move by Elway - but the Eagles declaring their intent is what made the price so low. I wouldn't read into the price as to factoring what plans the Broncos have for him either way. What it sure does suggest really strongly is how unsure Elway, Joseph & co. are on Garcia, and hopefully they've realized it's time to cut bait on Stephenson, as that would literally make this a no-cost move cap-wise, and the slightest of costs pick-wise.
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