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110 of 111 NFL Brains Studied Found to Have CTE
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Shanedorf


Joined: 18 Mar 2014
Posts: 1583
PostPosted: Wed Jul 26, 2017 2:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ChazStandard wrote:
It seems bizarre to me that we get headlines saying "Scientific study finds being hit in the head is bad for you".
Well, duh.

They are trying to learn more about how it happens, who it happens to and how to prevent or ameliorate it in the future. One of the points that came out of the research was the cumulative effects of playing from grade school all the way through college and pros. Is it just the big hits as an adult or are the effects similar with a prolonged series of smaller hits ?

One of the other points that came out was the difference between various positions played. The OL have brain-hits on every play, while a DB may only bang his helmet on half the plays- but at a much higher velocity

There is an immense amount of knowledge we don't yet have about CTE and understanding the underlying mechanisms, sequela and concomitant factors offer opportunities to make the game safer going forward.

The brain truly is the final frontier in medical science and each study contributes to our understanding, like adding pieces of a puzzle.

There's more to it than "duh".... Cool
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LaserFocus


Joined: 12 Feb 2016
Posts: 135
PostPosted: Wed Jul 26, 2017 3:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Shanedorf wrote:
ChazStandard wrote:
It seems bizarre to me that we get headlines saying "Scientific study finds being hit in the head is bad for you".
Well, duh.

They are trying to learn more about how it happens, who it happens to and how to prevent or ameliorate it in the future. One of the points that came out of the research was the cumulative effects of playing from grade school all the way through college and pros. Is it just the big hits as an adult or are the effects similar with a prolonged series of smaller hits ?

One of the other points that came out was the difference between various positions played. The OL have brain-hits on every play, while a DB may only bang his helmet on half the plays- but at a much higher velocity

There is an immense amount of knowledge we don't yet have about CTE and understanding the underlying mechanisms, sequela and concomitant factors offer opportunities to make the game safer going forward.

The brain truly is the final frontier in medical science and each study contributes to our understanding, like adding pieces of a puzzle.

There's more to it than "duh".... Cool


We already knew lineman were at greater risk, so I'm not sure how this study advances the story. Essentially, the same story has been published for several years. And this study has a fundamental problem nobody is talking about. Nearly all the brains donated were by players or their relatives because of symptoms, or troubling behavior. Also, many of the players were in action before even the NFL knew there was a problem.

So let's do a wider study, with brains from older players not having symptoms which aren't related to age. Countless former NFL players are doing well, from running business ventures, to working at universities. Let's examine players from more recent times down the road.

As long as we have tackle football, concussions are inevitable in this voluntarily activity. The good news is how we can reduce the number, technology is just one way it will happen.
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Malik


Joined: 18 Dec 2011
Posts: 8743
PostPosted: Wed Jul 26, 2017 3:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

///mcompact wrote:
Kiwibrown wrote:
I think getting rid of helmets and pads is the way to go.

Rugby sees less head injuries than the NFL due to its contact rules.


I don't know if these guys, who've trained their whole life tackling a certain way/closing in at full speed, can retroactively do it. It's like taking a drag racer who's raced on big daddy slicks/wheelie-bars and having him race with 10.5" drag radials. They're going to crash into the wall.

It would take for the NFL to shut entirely down, for at least a decade and then have newly trained blood come in and try to implement Rugby tactics with NFL style rules.


Absolutely. The tackling technique in most NFL games is horrible. We aren't that far removed from when ESPN used to have the "jacked up!" montage reel on their football shows. Elite college players and NFL players really just don't know how to tackle without using their head. It is something that's going to take a long and heavily invested cultural change.
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bananabucket


Joined: 29 Dec 2013
Posts: 1711
PostPosted: Wed Jul 26, 2017 3:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bobikus wrote:
El ramster wrote:
Where could I make at least 10 Million for some CTE baby sign me up..
Easiest money of my life tackling some fools..

Every one of those football players would do it all over again.
Same as being in the army, They have a sense of pride and they love the game/country..

Remember it's only like 1% of the population that can play in the NFL.
Only the elites of the elites.


Yeah, young people say this and go into football and they're rich and everything's fine.

And then they're 43 and brain damaged and committing suicide.


Have you been watching Concussion again?
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11sanchez11


Joined: 08 Feb 2010
Posts: 18331
Location: Tucson, AZ
PostPosted: Wed Jul 26, 2017 3:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bobikus wrote:
El ramster wrote:
Where could I make at least 10 Million for some CTE baby sign me up..
Easiest money of my life tackling some fools..

Every one of those football players would do it all over again.
Same as being in the army, They have a sense of pride and they love the game/country..

Remember it's only like 1% of the population that can play in the NFL.
Only the elites of the elites.


Yeah, young people say this and go into football and they're rich and everything's fine.

And then they're 43 and brain damaged and committing suicide.
Do NFL players have higher suicide rates than the American average?
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Rich7sena


Joined: 12 Sep 2009
Posts: 6859
PostPosted: Wed Jul 26, 2017 4:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

El ramster wrote:
Where could I make at least 10 Million for some CTE baby sign me up..
Easiest money of my life tackling some fools..

Every one of those football players would do it all over again.
Same as being in the army, They have a sense of pride and they love the game/country..

Remember it's only like 1% of the population that can play in the NFL.
Only the elites of the elites.

Except it's not the same at all as being in the army. Football players are in the entertainment business.

I'd say the only comparable job would be other contact sports like boxing and MMA. I'd also argue in most cases the love of money/security is a much bigger motivator than love of the game.
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Shanedorf


Joined: 18 Mar 2014
Posts: 1583
PostPosted: Wed Jul 26, 2017 5:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

LaserFocus wrote:

We already knew lineman were at greater risk, so I'm not sure how this study advances the story. Essentially, the same story has been published for several years. And this study has a fundamental problem nobody is talking about. Nearly all the brains donated were by players or their relatives because of symptoms, or troubling behavior. Also, many of the players were in action before even the NFL knew there was a problem.

So let's do a wider study, with brains from older players not having symptoms which aren't related to age. Countless former NFL players are doing well, from running business ventures, to working at universities. Let's examine players from more recent times down the road.


Without solid clinical research to back it up its difficult to "know" anything. It seems logical enough, that OL would have more impacts but the proof is in conducting gold standard research under rigorous control.

The same story hasn't been published for several years.
Its a larger and more comprehensive study than anything ever undertaken in the past, that's really moving the ball forward.

We can't yet do a study in living patients because the technology to do so is still in development. Many are hopeful that its on the near horizon.
What we can study in the living patients does offer some hints, but CTE isn't like an infectious disease where you run a blood test and say Yes or No.

In the study, the PI offered us some insight on your suggestion for a wider study.

"About 1,300 former players have died since the B.U. group began examining brains. So even if every one of the other 1,200 players would have tested negative which even the heartiest skeptics would agree could not possibly be the case the minimum C.T.E. prevalence would be close to 9 percent, vastly higher than in the general population."

Its a degenerative, progressive disease, so while some have not yet succumbed to the symptoms, it doesn't mean there isn't a problem.
And we certainly want to know why some get it while others may not.
That's similar to any disease research. Why do some smokers get lung cancer while others don't ?

I agree that we are looking retrospectively, that's the limitations of the current medical practice.
But there are other confounding variables here that also play a role and need further study.

The size and athleticism of the current players exceeds their counterparts from decades ago - and that means nastier collisions from a physics point of view.
How is that any "safer" ? Do steroids and PEDs have a role ? What about the hard surfaces of the old Astroturf vs modern playing fields ?

The game is different today and some rules changes may make it worse on the brain (narrowing of the hash marks) and some may have helped. ( no hitting defenseless WRs)

That's why more research is needed and that's why this seminal work really matters imo. Others may feel differently and that's fine.
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Kiwibrown


Joined: 01 May 2006
Posts: 3355
Location: NZ
PostPosted: Wed Jul 26, 2017 6:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

bananabucket wrote:
Kiwibrown wrote:
I think getting rid of helmets and pads is the way to go.

Rugby sees less head injuries than the NFL due to its contact rules.



yeah... that would not end well


I think the innovation that needs to happen is around the contact rules in the NFL rather than with the tech. A person sprinting coming to a sudden stop will always be bad for the brain.
Even if they have a soft helmet.

I think the contact rules in the NFL have to be re-examined.
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Bobikus


Joined: 07 Jun 2009
Posts: 9703
PostPosted: Wed Jul 26, 2017 8:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

bananabucket wrote:
Bobikus wrote:
El ramster wrote:
Where could I make at least 10 Million for some CTE baby sign me up..
Easiest money of my life tackling some fools..

Every one of those football players would do it all over again.
Same as being in the army, They have a sense of pride and they love the game/country..

Remember it's only like 1% of the population that can play in the NFL.
Only the elites of the elites.


Yeah, young people say this and go into football and they're rich and everything's fine.

And then they're 43 and brain damaged and committing suicide.


Have you been watching Concussion again?


Never watched it.

Suicide rates of NFL players relative to other people of their income/age/etc demographics would probably be interesting to look into actually.
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Zithers


Joined: 15 Aug 2010
Posts: 3268
PostPosted: Wed Jul 26, 2017 11:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I hope the Panthers win a Super Bowl before the NFL is canceled.
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Marc MacGyver


Joined: 28 Aug 2015
Posts: 5268
Location: In the thick of it.
PostPosted: Fri Jul 28, 2017 9:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kiwibrown wrote:
I think getting rid of helmets and pads is the way to go.

Rugby sees less head injuries than the NFL due to its contact rules.


I'm not so sure?

Rugby players need to be put through the same scrutiny, & have their brains examined before we can safely assume that. Hardly any former rugby players donate their brains for research.

Recently, rugby has had concussion & head-knocks issues galore at the pro level. And some serious incidents, including deaths, in the lower levels. (Union / League)

Outside of New Zealand, & perhaps Wales? Plus, a handful of tiny Pacific Island nations, rugby takes a back seat to sports with much higher profiles. Football is the complete opposite, it's the highest profile sport, in one if the world's largest markets. The spotlight on concussion related issues, such as CTE, is incredibly intense.

Now, you may be right? And rugby players may be avoiding the effects of CTE. Or, you could be wrong? And the game may be in denial about the long-term effects of playing rugby.

The problem is rugby players aren't lining up to donate their brains to science. Until they do that, we have no way of knowing.

Rugby's current attitude towards CTE, feels eerily similar to where American football's used to be, before the overwhelming evidence came to light.

- Assuming CTE is a boxing issue, & not football related. Only this time, the assumption is that CTE exists in football, but isn't a serious concern for rugby.

In the long run we may have to accept that humans just aren't built to collide with each other.
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Calvert28


Joined: 21 Oct 2006
Posts: 21637
PostPosted: Sun Jul 30, 2017 2:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, they're not being paid millions to knit sweaters.

Anyone who ever thought even before all these studies and reports there was no long term effects from playing football were just being plain stupid.

Hopefully a solution is found to make head contact in the sport less intense. But whether it's it's 50% of cases or the full 100%. This shouldn't really surprise anyone.
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mozwanted wrote:
I don't agree with the pick.Bad teams pick rb's with a top 5 pick.
Moz, bad teams pick in the top 5.That's the way the draft works.
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incognito_man


Joined: 11 Jan 2007
Posts: 40976
Location: Madison
PostPosted: Sun Jul 30, 2017 3:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

time for me to start getting into soccer i suppose
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Rich7sena


Joined: 12 Sep 2009
Posts: 6859
PostPosted: Mon Jul 31, 2017 10:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bobikus wrote:
Suicide rates of NFL players relative to other people of their income/age/etc demographics would probably be interesting to look into actually.


According to the NFL's Operations website - which has curated sources to debunk what can be perceived as information detrimental to the league - NFL players commit suicide at less than half the rate of American men.

This, of course, should not deter the league's and elements outside the league to pursue long term player safety.
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The Hitch


Joined: 06 Jan 2014
Posts: 1051
Location: Londres
PostPosted: Mon Jul 31, 2017 11:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rich7sena wrote:
Bobikus wrote:
Suicide rates of NFL players relative to other people of their income/age/etc demographics would probably be interesting to look into actually.


According to the NFL's Operations website - which has curated sources to debunk what can be perceived as information detrimental to the league - NFL players commit suicide at less than half the rate of American men.

This, of course, should not deter the league's and elements outside the league to pursue long term player safety.


Thats surprising because rich people generally commit suicide more than poor people as well. I think famous people more than non famous people as well. Add on the post retirement difficulties (years of adulation suddenly coming to an end), the difficulty adjusting to a "normal life", the other health problems, I wouldn't have been surprised with a higher suicide rate even before taking into account the head injuries,
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CHAMPION - 2014 FF prediction game.
fortdetroit wrote:

None of us are on the team or had anything to do with the games. If you want to brag about accomplishments that other people accomplished and you had nothing to do with be my guest
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