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fattlipp


Joined: 12 Jan 2005
Posts: 1198
PostPosted: Wed Jul 19, 2017 11:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

BroncoSojia wrote:
fattlipp wrote:
What about the RB's

Anderson - Cut

Booker
Charles (3rd down back)
Henderson


We're not going to cut Anderson. Laughing He's our best back.


http://fansided.com/2017/07/05/broncos-cj-anderson-rumors-jamaal-charles/

IMO its him or Charles, Booker is cheap and same skillset and they love DH. Unless they keep 4 RB's again..
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champ11


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 19, 2017 11:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

what is the dead money like if they cut Anderson? I think it's plausible but I forget the details of his deal.

Booker was bad last year. He has the talent to take a leap if he gets more comfortable w the speed of the game.
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Broncofan


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 19, 2017 1:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

champ11 wrote:
what is the dead money like if they cut Anderson? I think it's plausible but I forget the details of his deal.

Booker was bad last year. He has the talent to take a leap if he gets more comfortable w the speed of the game.


Booker could just be no better than a backup, but unsurprisingly he admitted the speed of the game and the length of the season did give him problems - http://www.espn.com/blog/nflnation/post/_/id/240663/devontae-booker-more-ready-this-time-to-compete-for-no-1-rb-spot

It's at least reassuring to see Booker is owning up to the fact he didn't play well in the 2H, after a promising start when used with CJ, than when pushed into the starter's role. As I mentioned last year, the rookie wall is a real problem, and could explain Booker's struggles (especially with poor vision, as vision was a NCAA asset when we drafted him, hard to believe he lost that completely in 1 year - the other areas he struggled with are less clear if he can bounce back, but vision is one area I'd expect will be better). If it was the rookie wall that caused most of Booker's struggles, then he actually becomes a viable timeshare option, and a real asset in our pass game, at worst. Plus, while 2017's OL play in pass protection is less clear, we should be a lot better in run blocking - which should then show if Booker's vision is better with actual holes to choose to hit.

But no matter how plausible the rookie wall was last year for his struggles, the reality is Booker will have to show he's caught up to NFL game speed now for us to count on him for anything more than a backup or timeshare role (although his versatility and pass game receiving chops give him a clear role). For NFL RB's, if you can't catch up to NFL game speed by Year 2, almost every time, it's not something that gets better later on, so this is his make-or-break year (unlike other positions, where giving a 2nd year to expect a later-round pick to be a roster contributor is very reasonable).

Re: CJ, as much as matching the MIA tender was a mistake, most of Anderson's salary hit happened last year (MIA front-loaded it with a 2016 6M cap hit to make it harder for Elway to match - http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/denver-broncos/c.j.-anderson-12553/). CJ doesn't cost much this year, he has 1.7M dead money for his 3M cap hit. For that salary difference, no way you cut him. He's likely gone next year if he's expendable, as there's no dead money, all savings, but no way he goes at 1.3M savings. Remember JC hasn't even put on pads yet - there is no way anyone should feel safe projecting him for any contributions yet. And while D-Henderson could be a key cog from 2018+, anything he gives this year is a bonus - the small school background is going to make his learning curve even steeper than Booker's was last year.

Add it up, and either D-Henderson makes it to the PS, or JC gets cut before week 1, given how his contract is structured (most of the $ DEN saves if they cut bait before the season starts). If JC makes the team, then Booker is likely the 3rd RB, since he could contribute on ST. JC has to be a top 2 RB to be kept. That's why I'd peg it as a 50-50 prop at best that JC is on our roster come Week 1 game time.
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Last edited by Broncofan on Wed Jul 19, 2017 6:54 pm; edited 1 time in total
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champ11


Joined: 14 Apr 2014
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 19, 2017 1:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Broncofan wrote:
champ11 wrote:
what is the dead money like if they cut Anderson? I think it's plausible but I forget the details of his deal.

Booker was bad last year. He has the talent to take a leap if he gets more comfortable w the speed of the game.


Booker could just be no better than a backup, but unsurprisingly he admitted the speed of the game and the length of the season did give him problems - http://www.espn.com/blog/nflnation/post/_/id/240663/devontae-booker-more-ready-this-time-to-compete-for-no-1-rb-spot

It's at least reassuring to see Booker is owning up to the fact he didn't play well in the 2H, after a promising start when used with CJ, than when pushed into the starter's role. As I mentioned last year, the rookie wall is a real problem, and could explain Booker's struggles (especially with poor vision, as vision was a NCAA asset when we drafted him, hard to believe he lost that completely in 1 year - the other areas he struggled with are less clear if he can bounce back, but vision is one area I'd expect will be better). If it was the rookie wall that caused most of Booker's struggles, then he actually becomes a viable timeshare option, and a real asset in our pass game, at worst. Plus, while 2017's OL play in pass protection is less clear, we should be a lot better in run blocking - which should then show if Booker's vision is better with actual holes to choose to hit.

But no matter how plausible the rookie wall was last year for his struggles, the reality is Booker will have to show he's caught up to NFL game speed now for us to count on him for anything more than a backup or timeshare role (although his versatility and pass game receiving chops give him a clear role). For NFL RB's, if you can't catch up to NFL game speed by Year 2, almost every time, it's not something that gets better later on, so this is his make-or-break year (unlike other positions, where giving a 2nd year to expect a later-round pick to be a roster contributor is very reasonable).

Re: CJ, as much as matching the MIA tender was a mistake, most of Anderson's salary hit happened last year (MIA front-loaded it with a 2016 6M cap hit to make it harder for Elway to match - http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/denver-broncos/c.j.-anderson-12553/). CJ doesn't cost much this year, he has 1.7M dead money for his 3M cap hit. For that salary difference, no way you cut him. He's likely gone next year if he's expendable, as there's no dead money, all savings, but no way he goes at 1.3M savings. Remember JC hasn't even put on pads yet - there is no way anyone should feel safe projecting him for any contributions yet. And while D-Henderson could be a key cog from 2018+, anything he gives this year is a bonus - the small school background is going to make his learning curve even steeper than Booker's was last year.

Add it up, and either D-Henderson makes it to the PS, or JC gets cut before week 1, given how his contract is structured (most of the $ DEN saves if they cut bait before the season starts). If JC makes the team, then Booker is likely the 3rd RB, since he could contribute on ST. JC has to be a top 2 RB to kept. That's why I'd peg it as a 50-50 prop at best that JC is on our roster come Week 1 game time.


Totally agree with you. Could get interesting if JC shows out in TC and is the clear better player than CJ. If they are even CJ is a much safer option at this point.
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jsthomp2007


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 20, 2017 7:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

champ11 wrote:
what is the dead money like if they cut Anderson? I think it's plausible but I forget the details of his deal.

Booker was bad last year. He has the talent to take a leap if he gets more comfortable w the speed of the game.


I get the impression that the Raider game is what I think Booker is. If he can play like that...CJ becomes expendable.
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fattlipp


Joined: 12 Jan 2005
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 20, 2017 12:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

jsthomp2007 wrote:
champ11 wrote:
what is the dead money like if they cut Anderson? I think it's plausible but I forget the details of his deal.

Booker was bad last year. He has the talent to take a leap if he gets more comfortable w the speed of the game.


I get the impression that the Raider game is what I think Booker is. If he can play like that...CJ becomes expendable.


This..
Booker is younger, healthier, cheaper and a better receiver...
The only advantage CJ had was patience as a runner, and that helped him a lot more in the ZBS, McCoy runs more of a power scheme which Booker should excel in.
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AnAngryAmerican


Joined: 23 Apr 2006
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 20, 2017 12:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I cannot envision any scenario where they would cut CJ this year. One, he is our most-experienced traditional RB (Charles, at this point in his career, is more of a 3rd-down RB / gadget player) and he's a lockerroom "glue guy."

On the latter point, we are an offense without much in the of established leadership. Our veteran RT and RG are both new to the team, we have the youngest QB room in the league, our #1 WR is not a vocal leader type, our LT is a rookie. This offense is in dire need of vocal leaders are CJ is one of the few who fill that role. Those kinds of things often get over-looked by fans and those outside the organization but it's something on which the coaching staff and front office put a great deal of importance.
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fattlipp


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 20, 2017 1:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

AnAngryAmerican wrote:
I cannot envision any scenario where they would cut CJ this year. One, he is our most-experienced traditional RB (Charles, at this point in his career, is more of a 3rd-down RB / gadget player) and he's a lockerroom "glue guy."

On the latter point, we are an offense without much in the of established leadership. Our veteran RT and RG are both new to the team, we have the youngest QB room in the league, our #1 WR is not a vocal leader type, our LT is a rookie. This offense is in dire need of vocal leaders are CJ is one of the few who fill that role. Those kinds of things often get over-looked by fans and those outside the organization but it's something on which the coaching staff and front office put a great deal of importance.


Do you want leaders like Eddy Lacy/CJ Anderson
Come into camp 20lbs overweight every off season.
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AnAngryAmerican


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 20, 2017 1:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

OrangeNBlue86#2 wrote:
As far as the qb battle goes, if the broncos are serious about the playoffs and competing this year they need to start seimian if the battle is close. If he falls to look like he can get us to the playoffs, the team can switch pretty quickly to lynch. Even if lynch fails in that situation you can blame trevor for the slow start. But if you start lynch, I think the team has to stick by him even if he sucks because he was a first round pick. Going from lynch to Trevor would say we messed up with our first round pick and he would be a lame duck for 2 more seasons of his contract.

I think there is a degree of merit to the point you're making - it's easier to go from Siemian to Lynch than it is from Lynch to Siemian, at least insofar as the optics are concerned.

One thing we cannot have, and it worries me because we have a rookie head coach who I'm sure does not fully appreciate that the pressure on this team is off the charts from both the media and the fanbase, is to keep going back and forth between the two (barring injury). Whomever wins the starting job should hold it for the whole season unless a) he gets injured or b) his play so is abysmally awful that it causes problems in the locker room with the veteran defense (think the New England game last year and the subsequent Okung/Talib falling out). If the winner starts, plays a few games, gets hurt and misses a few, when he's healthy he should come back and be the the starter unless the other plays very well (think Brady/Bledsoe in 2001).

If Paxton doesn't win the starting job this year it's not the end of the world and if Trevor wins it and struggles, you can always go to the high-upside first round pick. One thing I've been thinking about the last few weeks is that, given Paxton's play style, which is more ad-lib than Trevor's, he is going to benefit more from playing in live games than he is from non-game speed reps in practice, even going against our defense. I think if Paxton wins the starting job and struggles you have to stay with him longer than you would with Trevor because his ceiling is so much higher and he will improve more from start one to start 10 than Trevor will.
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AnAngryAmerican


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 20, 2017 1:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

fattlipp wrote:
AnAngryAmerican wrote:
I cannot envision any scenario where they would cut CJ this year. One, he is our most-experienced traditional RB (Charles, at this point in his career, is more of a 3rd-down RB / gadget player) and he's a lockerroom "glue guy."

On the latter point, we are an offense without much in the of established leadership. Our veteran RT and RG are both new to the team, we have the youngest QB room in the league, our #1 WR is not a vocal leader type, our LT is a rookie. This offense is in dire need of vocal leaders are CJ is one of the few who fill that role. Those kinds of things often get over-looked by fans and those outside the organization but it's something on which the coaching staff and front office put a great deal of importance.


Do you want leaders like Eddy Lacy/CJ Anderson
Come into camp 20lbs overweight every off season.

Did CJ show up 20lbs overwright this year? Because the team hasn't reported to camp yet.

CJ has struggled with being overweight a few times in his career but I do know one such instance was due to the fact he had surgery to repair that meniscus injury and couldn't workout for a portion of the offseason.

This year, however, appears to be a different story. From all accounts CJ looks good in OTAs and mini camp and has become an avid bicycle rider this offseason, as reported by USA Today, among other outlets.

Quote:
The 26-year-old Broncos running back has been riding his bicycle long distances this offseason as he continues to get back into football shape. A few weeks ago, Anderson rode his bike 20 miles to surprise a youth football team.

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fattlipp


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 20, 2017 5:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

AnAngryAmerican wrote:
fattlipp wrote:
AnAngryAmerican wrote:
I cannot envision any scenario where they would cut CJ this year. One, he is our most-experienced traditional RB (Charles, at this point in his career, is more of a 3rd-down RB / gadget player) and he's a lockerroom "glue guy."

On the latter point, we are an offense without much in the of established leadership. Our veteran RT and RG are both new to the team, we have the youngest QB room in the league, our #1 WR is not a vocal leader type, our LT is a rookie. This offense is in dire need of vocal leaders are CJ is one of the few who fill that role. Those kinds of things often get over-looked by fans and those outside the organization but it's something on which the coaching staff and front office put a great deal of importance.


Do you want leaders like Eddy Lacy/CJ Anderson
Come into camp 20lbs overweight every off season.

Did CJ show up 20lbs overwright this year? Because the team hasn't reported to camp yet.

CJ has struggled with being overweight a few times in his career but I do know one such instance was due to the fact he had surgery to repair that meniscus injury and couldn't workout for a portion of the offseason.

This year, however, appears to be a different story. From all accounts CJ looks good in OTAs and mini camp and has become an avid bicycle rider this offseason, as reported by USA Today, among other outlets.

Quote:
The 26-year-old Broncos running back has been riding his bicycle long distances this offseason as he continues to get back into football shape. A few weeks ago, Anderson rode his bike 20 miles to surprise a youth football team.


report from 2 weeks ago

“C.J. has kind of fallen out of favor here with these coaches,” Allbright said. “This will be his last year here either way. Showing up overweight, his work ethic maybe not where it should be.”
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AKRNA


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 21, 2017 1:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

fattlipp wrote:
AnAngryAmerican wrote:
fattlipp wrote:
AnAngryAmerican wrote:
I cannot envision any scenario where they would cut CJ this year. One, he is our most-experienced traditional RB (Charles, at this point in his career, is more of a 3rd-down RB / gadget player) and he's a lockerroom "glue guy."

On the latter point, we are an offense without much in the of established leadership. Our veteran RT and RG are both new to the team, we have the youngest QB room in the league, our #1 WR is not a vocal leader type, our LT is a rookie. This offense is in dire need of vocal leaders are CJ is one of the few who fill that role. Those kinds of things often get over-looked by fans and those outside the organization but it's something on which the coaching staff and front office put a great deal of importance.


Do you want leaders like Eddy Lacy/CJ Anderson
Come into camp 20lbs overweight every off season.

Did CJ show up 20lbs overwright this year? Because the team hasn't reported to camp yet.

CJ has struggled with being overweight a few times in his career but I do know one such instance was due to the fact he had surgery to repair that meniscus injury and couldn't workout for a portion of the offseason.

This year, however, appears to be a different story. From all accounts CJ looks good in OTAs and mini camp and has become an avid bicycle rider this offseason, as reported by USA Today, among other outlets.

Quote:
The 26-year-old Broncos running back has been riding his bicycle long distances this offseason as he continues to get back into football shape. A few weeks ago, Anderson rode his bike 20 miles to surprise a youth football team.


report from 2 weeks ago

“C.J. has kind of fallen out of favor here with these coaches,” Allbright said. “This will be his last year here either way. Showing up overweight, his work ethic maybe not where it should be.”


I'm not sure who Allbright is. I have read some articles quoting Studesville and McCoy though. They sounded ecstatic to have CJ back. They also sounded quite pleased with his off season workouts.

Not really sure where Allbright gets his info and what coaches he's referring to.
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AnAngryAmerican


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 21, 2017 1:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

AKRNA wrote:
fattlipp wrote:
AnAngryAmerican wrote:
fattlipp wrote:
AnAngryAmerican wrote:
I cannot envision any scenario where they would cut CJ this year. One, he is our most-experienced traditional RB (Charles, at this point in his career, is more of a 3rd-down RB / gadget player) and he's a lockerroom "glue guy."

On the latter point, we are an offense without much in the of established leadership. Our veteran RT and RG are both new to the team, we have the youngest QB room in the league, our #1 WR is not a vocal leader type, our LT is a rookie. This offense is in dire need of vocal leaders are CJ is one of the few who fill that role. Those kinds of things often get over-looked by fans and those outside the organization but it's something on which the coaching staff and front office put a great deal of importance.


Do you want leaders like Eddy Lacy/CJ Anderson
Come into camp 20lbs overweight every off season.

Did CJ show up 20lbs overwright this year? Because the team hasn't reported to camp yet.

CJ has struggled with being overweight a few times in his career but I do know one such instance was due to the fact he had surgery to repair that meniscus injury and couldn't workout for a portion of the offseason.

This year, however, appears to be a different story. From all accounts CJ looks good in OTAs and mini camp and has become an avid bicycle rider this offseason, as reported by USA Today, among other outlets.

Quote:
The 26-year-old Broncos running back has been riding his bicycle long distances this offseason as he continues to get back into football shape. A few weeks ago, Anderson rode his bike 20 miles to surprise a youth football team.


report from 2 weeks ago

“C.J. has kind of fallen out of favor here with these coaches,” Allbright said. “This will be his last year here either way. Showing up overweight, his work ethic maybe not where it should be.”


I'm not sure who Allbright is. I have read some articles quoting Studesville and McCoy though. They sounded ecstatic to have CJ back. They also sounded quite pleased with his off season workouts.

Not really sure where Allbright gets his info and what coaches he's referring to.

I'm sure it's Benjamin Albright to whom fattlipp is referring.

I guess time will tell about CJ. I don't like hearing about someone falling out of favor with the coaching staff. But I like even less hearing that someone has fallen out of favor with the coaching staff before training camp has even started. Sounds to me that said player will not be getting a fair shake.

Clearly fattlipp is not a fan of CJ. That's okay. One has a right to dislike someone associated with their favorite team. I, for one, and sorry to shock everyone here less than a week before camp, dislike Josh McDaniels intensely.
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thebestever6


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 21, 2017 5:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't know how anyone can hate cj he was an imstumental part in helping this team win a superbowl.


I'm also remembering that article about paxton lynchs work ethic. And dont believe everything I read. If his work ethic is so poor I doubt we'd be seeing him doing private workouts in florida a large part of the offseason.
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Broncofan


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 21, 2017 1:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Honestly this is the slowest time of year for actual real news. Even OTA's are overhyped in terms of impact, other than to show guys are healthy, or seeing if people are making progress in making their reads, and knowing where to be, because it's all non-contact. But after OTA's end, we really get to the puff-piece articles until TC begins....other than if someone makes headlines for the wrong reasons.

Teams like Dallas are making headlines because so many of their guys can't stay out of trouble, or cases like San Diego's Mike Williams, whose back injury is more worrisome. The fact these CJ-roster-spot / QB battle pieces are the biggest stories we are getting now for DEN is probably the best-case scenario - because other than speculation or usual hype (best shape of career, looks like a different player, the light's come on, etc.), it's usually bad news (injury, failed drug test, or legal troubles).
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This is like playing checkers with a pigeon. No matter how well you play, sooner or later the pigeon is going to crap on the board, then puff his chest out and strut around like he won something.
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