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Chiefs Fire GM John Dorsey
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kylecumberland


Joined: 04 Feb 2008
Posts: 1180
PostPosted: Fri Jun 23, 2017 1:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

MrOaktown_56 wrote:
Jakuvious wrote:
I'm baffled. Completely.


Same. I just don't know what he really did wrong. I'd put him in the top 5 GM's and this is obviously before the firing.

KC picked in the 20s and he still found ways to add star talent to the team. I'd say he's picked better than almost anyone the last few years, including Ted Thompson and John Schneider.


Its the cap. We are having to cut players like maclin. next year we will have to cut Alex Smith still to be under the cap. That is horrible cap management. and the chiefs realize that the he alone didn't find that talent. the chiefs organization and scouting department did. It is not a 1 man show.
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OleXmad


Joined: 09 Jan 2017
Posts: 564
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 23, 2017 2:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

kylecumberland wrote:
MrOaktown_56 wrote:
Jakuvious wrote:
I'm baffled. Completely.


Same. I just don't know what he really did wrong. I'd put him in the top 5 GM's and this is obviously before the firing.

KC picked in the 20s and he still found ways to add star talent to the team. I'd say he's picked better than almost anyone the last few years, including Ted Thompson and John Schneider.


Its the cap. We are having to cut players like maclin. next year we will have to cut Alex Smith still to be under the cap. That is horrible cap management. and the chiefs realize that the he alone didn't find that talent. the chiefs organization and scouting department did. It is not a 1 man show.


Uh you won't have to cut Alex Smith to get under the cap next year, You could cut Allen Bailey, Jah Reid, Ron Parker, Tamba Hali, Derrick Johnson and save about 20+ million in cap space. The Chiefs are tight against the cap (Even though they have 11 million right now) but it's far from an awful situation and while it could be part of the reason he got fired I'd bet it's something behind the scenes or he just lost the power struggle and wanted to be more than Reid's yes man.
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RaidersAreOne


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 23, 2017 2:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Defend this move all you want certain Chief fans, this is a very poor decision on KC's part.
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kylecumberland


Joined: 04 Feb 2008
Posts: 1180
PostPosted: Fri Jun 23, 2017 3:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

OleXmad wrote:
kylecumberland wrote:
MrOaktown_56 wrote:
Jakuvious wrote:
I'm baffled. Completely.


Same. I just don't know what he really did wrong. I'd put him in the top 5 GM's and this is obviously before the firing.

KC picked in the 20s and he still found ways to add star talent to the team. I'd say he's picked better than almost anyone the last few years, including Ted Thompson and John Schneider.


Its the cap. We are having to cut players like maclin. next year we will have to cut Alex Smith still to be under the cap. That is horrible cap management. and the chiefs realize that the he alone didn't find that talent. the chiefs organization and scouting department did. It is not a 1 man show.


Uh you won't have to cut Alex Smith to get under the cap next year, You could cut Allen Bailey, Jah Reid, Ron Parker, Tamba Hali, Derrick Johnson and save about 20+ million in cap space. The Chiefs are tight against the cap (Even though they have 11 million right now) but it's far from an awful situation and while it could be part of the reason he got fired I'd bet it's something behind the scenes or he just lost the power struggle and wanted to be more than Reid's yes man.


JUST cut 4 starters and your best swing o linemen? no big deal? I think they will opt to cut Alex smith...as long Mahomes is someone competent with the playbook. That seems like the most likely outcome. and don't forget.... They had to get Maclin....and are STILL in a horrible cap situation. Maclin is a good player and a smart franchise like the ravens took advantage, and yet we are still in cap issues after having to release maclin. That is a direct indictment on John Dorsey.
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kylecumberland


Joined: 04 Feb 2008
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 23, 2017 3:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

RaidersAreOne wrote:
Defend this move all you want certain Chief fans, this is a very poor decision on KC's part.


We will find out soon....
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Jakuvious


Joined: 06 Sep 2010
Posts: 15324
PostPosted: Fri Jun 23, 2017 3:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

kylecumberland wrote:
MrOaktown_56 wrote:
Jakuvious wrote:
I'm baffled. Completely.


Same. I just don't know what he really did wrong. I'd put him in the top 5 GM's and this is obviously before the firing.

KC picked in the 20s and he still found ways to add star talent to the team. I'd say he's picked better than almost anyone the last few years, including Ted Thompson and John Schneider.


Its the cap. We are having to cut players like maclin. next year we will have to cut Alex Smith still to be under the cap. That is horrible cap management. and the chiefs realize that the he alone didn't find that talent. the chiefs organization and scouting department did. It is not a 1 man show.


The cap hell we're in is a direct result of how much talent he's added to this team, though. Aside from Hali, and maybe Smith depending on your opinion, we don't have any bad contracts on the books. We mostly have good players getting paid for that good play. You can't keep everyone when you draft as we have lately. The better drafting teams always bleed free agents.
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OleXmad


Joined: 09 Jan 2017
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Location: Baltimore, Maryland.
PostPosted: Fri Jun 23, 2017 3:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

kylecumberland wrote:
OleXmad wrote:
kylecumberland wrote:
MrOaktown_56 wrote:
Jakuvious wrote:
I'm baffled. Completely.


Same. I just don't know what he really did wrong. I'd put him in the top 5 GM's and this is obviously before the firing.

KC picked in the 20s and he still found ways to add star talent to the team. I'd say he's picked better than almost anyone the last few years, including Ted Thompson and John Schneider.


Its the cap. We are having to cut players like maclin. next year we will have to cut Alex Smith still to be under the cap. That is horrible cap management. and the chiefs realize that the he alone didn't find that talent. the chiefs organization and scouting department did. It is not a 1 man show.


Uh you won't have to cut Alex Smith to get under the cap next year, You could cut Allen Bailey, Jah Reid, Ron Parker, Tamba Hali, Derrick Johnson and save about 20+ million in cap space. The Chiefs are tight against the cap (Even though they have 11 million right now) but it's far from an awful situation and while it could be part of the reason he got fired I'd bet it's something behind the scenes or he just lost the power struggle and wanted to be more than Reid's yes man.


JUST cut 4 starters and your best swing o linemen? no big deal? I think they will opt to cut Alex smith...as long Mahomes is someone competent with the playbook. That seems like the most likely outcome. and don't forget.... They had to get Maclin....and are STILL in a horrible cap situation. Maclin is a good player and a smart franchise like the ravens took advantage, and yet we are still in cap issues after having to release maclin. That is a direct indictment on John Dorsey.


Johnson will be 35 by next season and he'll need to be replaced anyway so cutting him is inevitable, Jah Reid is garbage and overpaid, Ron Parker and Hali don't need to be cut but Hali is an expensive 3rd pass rusher and they can put that money towards Dee Ford instead.

The Chiefs are not in a horrible cap situation at all, They can cut a multitude of players they can find replacements for in the draft and have plenty of cap space for next season. If they really wanted cap space this year they could've cut their punter who would've freed up 4 million for this year... 1 million less than what they got from cutting Maclin.

A team with a pretty horrible cap situation are the eagles.
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I'm not an honest person, I'm just 50 honest hamsters in a trench coat that learned to type.

Current owner of the Portland Horned Owls in the Bizzaro Dynasty League, I'm a Ravens fan and I regret every second of it.
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scoobz


Joined: 05 Jun 2017
Posts: 34
PostPosted: Fri Jun 23, 2017 5:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

kylecumberland wrote:
MrOaktown_56 wrote:
Jakuvious wrote:
I'm baffled. Completely.


Same. I just don't know what he really did wrong. I'd put him in the top 5 GM's and this is obviously before the firing.

KC picked in the 20s and he still found ways to add star talent to the team. I'd say he's picked better than almost anyone the last few years, including Ted Thompson and John Schneider.


Its the cap. We are having to cut players like maclin. next year we will have to cut Alex Smith still to be under the cap. That is horrible cap management. and the chiefs realize that the he alone didn't find that talent. the chiefs organization and scouting department did. It is not a 1 man show.


Is the cap a 1 man show?

You can't have it both ways.
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Chiefer


Joined: 20 Nov 2009
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Location: Somewhere in an Arizona Desert...
PostPosted: Fri Jun 23, 2017 8:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

MrOaktown_56 wrote:
Jakuvious wrote:
I'm baffled. Completely.


Same. I just don't know what he really did wrong. I'd put him in the top 5 GM's and this is obviously before the firing.

KC picked in the 20s and he still found ways to add star talent to the team. I'd say he's picked better than almost anyone the last few years, including Ted Thompson and John Schneider.
i think it's a few things. But mainly it's Reid. The way the contract extension came with the firing has to be more than coincidence right?
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dawsonleery


Joined: 31 Oct 2012
Posts: 1080
PostPosted: Fri Jun 23, 2017 8:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Woah. Dorsey is one of the best GMs in football. Looks like chiefs are low key rebuilding and maybe he wanted out? crazy.
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SteelKing728


Joined: 23 Aug 2008
Posts: 23555
Location: PGH
PostPosted: Fri Jun 23, 2017 9:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

why would Dorsey go back to Green Bay? he hasn't worked there in 5 years.

have the Packer fans on FootballsFuture finally fired Ted Thompson? Laughing
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tom cody


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 23, 2017 10:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Surprise move, the Chiefs have a good team there. Interesting they'd get rid of their GM.
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samsel23


Joined: 30 Sep 2008
Posts: 4965
PostPosted: Fri Jun 23, 2017 10:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jakuvious wrote:
kylecumberland wrote:
MrOaktown_56 wrote:
Jakuvious wrote:
I'm baffled. Completely.


Same. I just don't know what he really did wrong. I'd put him in the top 5 GM's and this is obviously before the firing.

KC picked in the 20s and he still found ways to add star talent to the team. I'd say he's picked better than almost anyone the last few years, including Ted Thompson and John Schneider.


Its the cap. We are having to cut players like maclin. next year we will have to cut Alex Smith still to be under the cap. That is horrible cap management. and the chiefs realize that the he alone didn't find that talent. the chiefs organization and scouting department did. It is not a 1 man show.


The cap hell we're in is a direct result of how much talent he's added to this team, though. Aside from Hali, and maybe Smith depending on your opinion, we don't have any bad contracts on the books. We mostly have good players getting paid for that good play. You can't keep everyone when you draft as we have lately. The better drafting teams always bleed free agents.


So much this...

People want to commen on how bad our cap is, but how many guys do we have underperforming? How many guys have we let hit FA that have continue to play at a high level?

R. Hudson is really the only guy we have lost in FA that has played at a high level after he left us.

T. Hali is really the only guy underperforming that we can't get out of his contract.

D. Harris, Zombo, Reid, and a few others you could say are overpaided Cap Wise but their guaranteed money is not bad at all and are very easily replaced if a cheap guy outperforms them.


Sure it's not a one man scouting department, but Dorsey is one of the best talent evaluators in the business. It won't be easy to replace at all
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kylecumberland


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 23, 2017 11:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dead money has been a huge issue since Dorsey got here as well. All the way back to the deal he gave Dwayne bowe. But it didn't end there. I would bet the chiefs under Dorsey have been one of the teams that commit the biggest percentage of salary cap to players not even on the roster. And then of course you have to pay the big time players like Berry and Houston, so there is no room for having so much dead money each year. The Jaye Howard contract was another bad one. Other talented teams are not in the cap situation we are in.

New England is NEVER in situations like this. Denver has been and is a talented team and they always have seemingly unlimited cap space. Those teams don't make a habbit of creating so much dead money.

So yes Dorsey has a great eye for talent, but guys like Brett veach have been learning from him for years now and have seen the process that has made Dorsey's drafts so successful. After seeing that process for 5 years now, I bet someone from within is ready to step up and continue the good drafting process we have had, but without the poor cap management.
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Broncofan


Joined: 02 Dec 2013
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 23, 2017 11:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dorsey probably needed a cap manager to help him. Hard to argue otherwise. But also really hard to argue with his track record in drafting or evaluating talent.

The bigger issue is who they replace him with. If it's a yes guy to Andy Reid hard to think it's a smart move. Reid is a really good coach but so few succeed as coach & GM.
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