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The great Landry jones debate

 
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byerly724


Joined: 25 Jul 2009
Posts: 242
PostPosted: Sun Jun 18, 2017 3:38 pm    Post subject: The great Landry jones debate Reply with quote



The hatred for Landry jones is something I've never understood, he was picked up as a back up with potential for more upside. He has been an above average backup and yet he gets people screaming for him to be cut.

Charlie batch on the other hand was a fan favorite while being a backup but actually had lower TD%, higher int % and comparable in QB rating.

Figured off-season is slow so why not start a debate
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JDLefebvre


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 18, 2017 5:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Charlie Batch was a local guy. He was also a full time starter at the beginning of his career.

For me it's not about stats as much as believing in the guy. You never wanna see your starter get hurt obviously but there isn't much confidence to be held for Landry when Ben is out. It's true that Landry hasn't been as bad as we think and played decent in a few games... and yes he is a backup but I'd like a backup who doesn't make me cringe every time he drops back. Wishful thinking.
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Magnus-Viktor


Joined: 28 Apr 2016
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 18, 2017 6:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Look at supporting cast and system. Batch had nothing to work with compared to what Jones has. Jones is terrible. Absolutely terrible.
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CKSteeler


Joined: 17 Mar 2013
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 18, 2017 6:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Outside two nice throws against Arizona, and beating a god awful Browns team in week 17 in OT...what the hell has Landry done? He was awful against KC. Awful when he came in against Miami. Despite a surprisingly good gameplan, he nuked the offense against NE.

Oh, yea. He came in for two drives against Cinci and without a complete miracle that's still pretty underrated for how unlikely it was, the Steelers don't advance in the playoffs.

The only thing you can say for him is that he didn't get the easiest slate of opponents there. But he's hardly been an above average back-up.

The Batch comparison doesn't even make sense. One guy started full time on pretty bad Lions teams and has a far larger sample size. By the time he got to Pittsburgh, he had already taken a beating and then by the end of his time here he barely had an arm left. He was still a better QB.
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byerly724


Joined: 25 Jul 2009
Posts: 242
PostPosted: Sun Jun 18, 2017 10:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Batch had Hines ward, health miller and Santanio Holmes at one point. I'd argue that made a comparable receiving group. He also had a better overall defense that gave him the chance to not have to carry the burden.
I honestly think Landry has the better throwing ability but lacks the leadership that batch had. And of course batch was a hometown favorite, but people always talk about jones not being as good on field.


Given that jones is still young i he hasn't quite hit his ceiling either, not saying that he will be starting material but he could be atleast in competition on a couple of teams in the league currently
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Chieferific


Joined: 24 Feb 2006
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 18, 2017 11:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jones doesn't do ANYTHING that makes you say.."Hey, that guy's good".
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FourThreeMafia


Joined: 28 Sep 2006
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Location: East of Sixburgh
PostPosted: Sun Jun 18, 2017 11:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jones isnt as bad as some make him out to be....at least for a backup. Some fans tend to believe that if a BACKUP isnt damn near starting quality, they dont deserve to be backup. Sadly, that isnt realistic....especially at a position where there are only maybe 20 true starting caliber players at any given time....and several of them are usually just average.

Is Landry Jones starting caliber? Hell no.
Is he a "good" backup QB? Not really.
Is he about average for a backup QB in this league? Yes. because most backup QBs in this league arent good.

The fact of the matter is, going from a guy like Ben to pretty much any backup QB is going to feel like a huge drop off. If Ben missed any significant amount of time, there are only a few backup QBs in this league I think we would be NOTABLY better of with than Landry Jones....not because LJ is that good, but because there arent many backup QBs who are going to come in and play well enough to help the team remain a contender if a QB goes down long term (not counting the 1st round drafted QBs who were drafted to be future starters).

Bottom line....Landry Jones is an average at best backup who could be upgraded, but despite what some Steeler fans say, you could do notably worse. The Steelers drafted a QB in the 4th round in an attempt to upgrade him, but short of drafting a QB in the first 2 rounds or paying $5m+ to get a slightly better backup, there arent alot of options to get a notable upgrade for Landry.

But rest easy....come next year, we will probably consider drafting a QB early, and unless Ben retires, should have at least a solid backup for the next couple years...until Ben retires and Steeler fans will PROBABLY start to remember how hard it is to find a quality starter, much less a quality backup. Confused
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jebrick


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 19, 2017 7:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Batch was a starter and that experience allowed him to be a better backup than Jones can be ( at least for now). Like Batch, you are not asking Jones to win a game.
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grubs10


Joined: 30 Oct 2010
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 19, 2017 8:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You really cant base it off the numbers when the sample sizes are that small
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byerly724


Joined: 25 Jul 2009
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 19, 2017 1:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well if you can't base it off a small sample size why is it fair to judge him harshly for that same sample size?

Look I'm not saying he's going to flourish as a starter when Ben retires but he's more then earned a roster spot unless Dobbs shines in preseason and we only keep 2 quarterbacks(which is very unlikely)

Not on this forum but I had talks with people throwing out names like tebow, manziel, room and even trading for current starters on other team(with significant draft compensation included)

It's going to be Landry jones and Dobbs this year and next we start the game of is a first round quarterback worth our pick for a quarterback of the future
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Magnus-Viktor


Joined: 28 Apr 2016
Posts: 245
PostPosted: Tue Jun 20, 2017 7:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

byerly724 wrote:
Batch had Hines ward, health miller and Santanio Holmes at one point. I'd argue that made a comparable receiving group. He also had a better overall defense that gave him the chance to not have to carry the burden.
I honestly think Landry has the better throwing ability but lacks the leadership that batch had. And of course batch was a hometown favorite, but people always talk about jones not being as good on field.


Given that jones is still young i he hasn't quite hit his ceiling either, not saying that he will be starting material but he could be atleast in competition on a couple of teams in the league currently


Heath Miller is a good point. I wasn't thinking about him. I was thinking more in terms of this:

Antonio Brown >>>> Hines Ward
Le'Veon Bell >>>> Willie Parker & Jerome Bettis
Martavis Bryant >>>> Stonehands Washington

Just for example. I might have mixed up some guys across the years, but that is what I was thinking.

Miller does make it a bit closer, but still no comparison. The OL now is much better at pass pro than Batch ever had it as well. Better system for passing too.
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Steeler Hitman


Joined: 25 Apr 2006
Posts: 1795
Location: Laurel, MD
PostPosted: Wed Jun 28, 2017 8:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

First off, very nice thread to discuss during the slow off-season. Great job putting the stats together as well. I like most of the comments by those who responded. Here is my two cents:

Landry Jones does pass the stats test, but is anyone really comfortable with putting him in if Ben goes down? He has not proven to be an effective game manager, nor has he shown to be a potential short gap starter who can move the offense consistently. Granted he has played against some very good teams and defenses as someone else pointed out.

Stats aside, I think most of us had more confidence in Batch filling in because of everything above the shoulders. The game has evolved into a more consistent passing league and the times are different in 2017 compared to 2008.

Landry Jones has played about how you expect a back-up to play given most of the situations that he was in. My problem with Landry is that he has not really lit it up in the pre-season against vanilla defenses and 3rd, 4th and 5th tier players. He didn't do it when he got starting snaps with the first team unit either.

Personally, I had more confidence in Bruce Gradkowski's ability to lead the offense, but he simply could not stay healthy a la Byron Leftwich. I do think that Landry is not a finished product and his learning curve has been slow. As someone wrote, he is probably the best short term back-up for RIGHT NOW. I pray the health of Ben for an entire season and with no lingering injuries. I would like to see our team healthy and with all of its weapons play for an entire season. I like our chances against anyone including our nemesis in New England who have owned us. Like most teams, we are in trouble if our starter goes down for any extended period regardless of who backs us up.

New England had success early with their back-ups when Tom Brady was suspended, but they don't make it to the Championship Game let alone win a SB without Tom being there the rest of the way. They don't win 11 of 12 games with Garafalo or Jacoby Bissett.

Those of us who are old enough remember the success that Mike Kruczek had as a rookie, know that back-up QB's get a lot of love. He started 6-0 and people clamored for him to replace Bradshaw. We know how that turned out. They are back-ups for a reason.
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