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Is the Redskins DL that much better?
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How much has the Redskins DL improved?
A lot
15%
 15%  [ 3 ]
It's worse because of the loss of Baker and RJF
0%
 0%  [ 0 ]
The DL will be about the same as the last 2 years
15%
 15%  [ 3 ]
It's better but still not a lot better
68%
 68%  [ 13 ]
Total Votes : 19

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turtle28


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 10, 2017 8:45 pm    Post subject: Is the Redskins DL that much better? Reply with quote

J.P. Finaly and Rich Tandler tackle the subject on CSN Mid Atlantic.

http://www.csnmidatlantic.com/video/redskins-dl-preview-group-really-much-better?utm_content=buffer4ea4d&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_campaign=buffer

I tend to agree with them that the DL is better - particularly after the drafting of Allen - but it's still not a great DL. Only way that happens is if McClain plays like what Baker did the last two years, McGee is a solid run stuffer who can hold down the middle and Phil Taylor surprises and plays like he did 4 and 5 years ago. That's highly unlikely all that happens and we'd need Anthony Lanier or Ioannidis or both really to develop into good rotational pieces.
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ripsean21


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 10, 2017 10:26 pm    Post subject: Re: Is the Redskins DL that much better? Reply with quote

turtle28 wrote:
J.P. Finaly and Rich Tandler tackle the subject on CSN Mid Atlantic.

http://www.csnmidatlantic.com/video/redskins-dl-preview-group-really-much-better?utm_content=buffer4ea4d&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_campaign=buffer

I tend to agree with them that the DL is better - particularly after the drafting of Allen - but it's still not a great DL. Only way that happens is if McClain plays like what Baker did the last two years, McGee is a solid run stuffer who can hold down the middle and Phil Taylor surprises and plays like he did 4 and 5 years ago. That's highly unlikely all that happens and we'd need Anthony Lanier or Ioannidis or both really to develop into good rotational pieces.


I think the only way we really turn it around is if they play the run better and someone other then Allen can give a dominant presence against the pass to help free up our heavily invested in OLB's. I don't think it's going to be this year but I do think they will be more effective against the run which is a huge improvement if it translates.
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turtle28


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 10, 2017 10:50 pm    Post subject: Re: Is the Redskins DL that much better? Reply with quote

ripsean21 wrote:
turtle28 wrote:
J.P. Finaly and Rich Tandler tackle the subject on CSN Mid Atlantic.

http://www.csnmidatlantic.com/video/redskins-dl-preview-group-really-much-better?utm_content=buffer4ea4d&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_campaign=buffer

I tend to agree with them that the DL is better - particularly after the drafting of Allen - but it's still not a great DL. Only way that happens is if McClain plays like what Baker did the last two years, McGee is a solid run stuffer who can hold down the middle and Phil Taylor surprises and plays like he did 4 and 5 years ago. That's highly unlikely all that happens and we'd need Anthony Lanier or Ioannidis or both really to develop into good rotational pieces.


I think the only way we really turn it around is if they play the run better and someone other then Allen can give a dominant presence against the pass to help free up our heavily invested in OLB's. I don't think it's going to be this year but I do think they will be more effective against the run which is a huge improvement if it translates.
If they can just not give up over 5 ypc a rush on 1st downs, the DL and run d will b improved. I hope that happens, and Allen will help the interior pass rush.
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Dashing


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 11, 2017 11:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's better some fans are salty about baker but what about everyone else ? RJF a role player Kendric nuff said and ziggy hood wasn't that good at all.
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A TRAIN 89


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 11, 2017 12:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think in total, we are marginally to moderately better. Would have been nice to keep Chris Baker, but going younger seemed to be a sticking point for this squad. I think the key will be Jim Tomsula and his ability to get the most out of the guys we have.
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Doc Draper


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 11, 2017 11:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

A TRAIN 89 wrote:
I think in total, we are marginally to moderately better. Would have been nice to keep Chris Baker, but going younger seemed to be a sticking point for this squad. I think the key will be Jim Tomsula and his ability to get the most out of the guys we have.


Agree. Have to consider allen is a rookie. Can Tomsula attain higher performance? History says yes
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turtle28


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 12, 2017 11:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

CSN Mid-Atlantic - Redskins hoping Tomsula can maximize D-line talent

http://www.csnmidatlantic.com/washington-redskins/redskins-hoping-tomsula-can-maximize-d-line-talent

Quote:
The rushing defense ranked 22nd in the league his first season in San Francisco but after that the improvement was rapid and lasting. The 49ers ranked 13th in rushing defense in 2008 and the following year they started a run of six straight years with top-10 rushing defenses. While he proved to be out of his element as a head coach in a one-year stint with the 49ers his reputation as a defensive line guru remains intact.

And the Redskins are hoping that he can turn around a defensive line that has been a sore spot for the team since for most of this decade. Since 2010, the Redskins have allowed 4.37 yards per rushing attempt, 25th in the NFL over that seven-season span. It's a chronic problem and they hope Tomsula can solve it.

The Redskins did not sign a nose tackle for their 3-4 base defense and they didn't take one in the draft. But Jay Gruden isn't worried because he has Tomsula on his staff and he believes that Tomsula can, well, create a nose guard.

"Coach Tomsula has assured me that he will find a nose guard, he'll make a nose guard," Gruden said in April. "If you look at his track record, you look at the nose guards he's had, none of them have been priority first-round draft choices. He's made nose guards. He coaches that position extremely well, and I have faith that he'll do that."

"Overall, I think from a toughness standpoint-I'm not saying that the guys that we did have before weren't tough-I'm just saying that's what Jimmy Tomsula is kind of putting into them," said Manusky. "It's ‘tough.' It's talking about hard work each and every day in the weight room, out on the field, and eventually when we get into the five weeks during the summer, I mean, that's a time when they can really mess it up or take advantage of it and really perform at a high level and do great things.

"Across the board, I'm happy with the guys that we have right now. I see Jim working with them every day. We're not there by any stretch of the means of the word, but I think we're getting there. You see progress with each player, young and old, and we're excited about what we have up front."
Rich Tandler says that despite the addition of Jonathan Allen, he's not sure that the Redskins defensive line is something that fans should be excited about yet but hopefully under the coaching of Tomsula they can become a solid DL.

http://m.redskins.com/news/article-1/Phil-Taylor-Says-Hes-Got-A-Lot-To-Prove-As-He-Looks-To-Secure-Roster-Spot/79d26ff5-192e-40a6-9d57-8a0a9387a405

Speaking of Tomsula, I just read where Phil Taylor worked out for the 49ers in the 2011 draft and he learned a lot from Jim Tomsula in just that one workout.

Quote:
Taylor - who grew in Brandywine, Md., and is a lifelong Redskins fan - says he'll do whatever it takes to get back onto an active roster in regular season action.

That starts with "being coachable" under new defensive line coach Jim Tomsula.

"When I was coming out [of college] I took a visit out to San Francisco when he was there," Taylor said. "I knew he was a great coach and he they had an earlier pick, so I just waited in the green room. He [Jim Tomsula] is a great coach and when I took the visit I loved what he taught me in that short amount of time. It was meant to be that we ended up back together."

Taylor joined the group following a "pretty dang good" workout last fall according to Redskins defensive coordinator Greg Manusky.



I have to believe we keep 7 DL this year and Taylor will be one of the 7 if he stays healthy.

RDE: Allen, Lanier
NT: McGee, Taylor, Ioannidis
LDE: McClain, Hood

Practice squad:

Ondre Pipkins and maybe Joey Mbu
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Last edited by turtle28 on Mon Jun 12, 2017 12:00 pm; edited 3 times in total
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turtle28


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 12, 2017 11:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dashing wrote:
It's better some fans are salty about baker but what about everyone else ? RJF a role player Kendric nuff said and ziggy hood wasn't that good at all.
Hood is still on the team, he was up and down and had to play out of position after Golston went down and we didn't have any other experience at NT. Hood mostly playing as a rotational DE is better than him having to start at NT and take on double teams in the run game. I think he'll make the team again this year and mostly play as a rotational DE behind McClain and Allen which is more of his strength. Don't expect anything flashy from Hood but he's incredibly strong and pretty athletic for his size. I just expect steady play from him as a rotational back up, which is more than what we've gotten from our back ups the last several years.
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mike23md


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 12, 2017 12:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

With no true NT and no real interest in investing a solid draft pick in one, only to think that there is going to be some miracle that one of them can play the part, this line got better with the addition of Allen, but will not be great until they have a solid NT that can be effective.
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turtle28


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 12, 2017 3:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mike23md wrote:
With no true NT and no real interest in investing a solid draft pick in one, only to think that there is going to be some miracle that one of them can play the part, this line got better with the addition of Allen, but will not be great until they have a solid NT that can be effective.
I know it's not a popular opinion - especially in this forum - but we don't know that McGee or Phil Taylor won't be good run stuffers at NT for this defense. The Raiders defense was about a yard per carry better vs the run when McGee was on the field for them vs when he wasn't. I'm not guaranteeing that he's the answer there or that Taylor will be but there's a possibility they are, especially McGee.

One NFC West executive told The Washington Post in March that “McGee is a stingy interior player that can hold the line of scrimmage...

McGee is only 27 and eventhough he just played in nine games in 2016 - and only finished 8 - he tied a career high with 14 solo tackles. He had 17 total tackles which is nearly 2.0 per game and that's pretty good for an interior DL.

He also 2.5 sacks which is more production than we've gotten as a pass rush from NT since we had Cofield and again, this was just in 9 games with just 8 he finsished because his injury kept him from finishing the 9th. He also forced 2 fumbles and Pro Football Focus gave him a quality grade of 80.5 which is pretty solid.
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Jeezy Fanatic


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 12, 2017 4:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The only team dumb enough to run the 3-4 for 5+ years without trying to get a nose tackle.
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turtle28


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 12, 2017 4:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jeezy Fanatic wrote:
The only team dumb enough to run the 3-4 for 5+ years without trying to get a nose tackle.
Barry Cofield wasn't the ideal size but he did play pretty well at NT from 2011 until he got hurt in 2014. Remains to be seen if McGee can be a solid NT, most analysts say he's a good run defender and if that's the case he could be the answer at NT for at least the next few seasons.
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DCRED


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 12, 2017 10:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

turtle28 wrote:
Jeezy Fanatic wrote:
The only team dumb enough to run the 3-4 for 5+ years without trying to get a nose tackle.
Barry Cofield wasn't the ideal size but he did play pretty well at NT from 2011 until he got hurt in 2014. Remains to be seen if McGee can be a solid NT, most analysts say he's a good run defender and if that's the case he could be the answer at NT for at least the next few seasons.


As good as Cofield was, he was better at DE and should have stayed there. So Jeezy's statement stands.
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turtle28


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 13, 2017 12:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

DCRED wrote:
turtle28 wrote:
Jeezy Fanatic wrote:
The only team dumb enough to run the 3-4 for 5+ years without trying to get a nose tackle.
Barry Cofield wasn't the ideal size but he did play pretty well at NT from 2011 until he got hurt in 2014. Remains to be seen if McGee can be a solid NT, most analysts say he's a good run defender and if that's the case he could be the answer at NT for at least the next few seasons.


As good as Cofield was, he was better at DE and should have stayed there. So Jeezy's statement stands.
Not exactly. The point still stands that Cofield played pretty well at NT. Yes, our defense would have probably been better with Cofield at DE and if we had a bigger NT but then again Cofield never played at DE for us so how would we know for sure?

Our DL was very good in 2011 when Bowen and Carriker were healthy at DE and Cofield was our NT.

It's not Cofield's fault that Carriker's career ended vs the Rams the next year, Bowen hurt his knee and was never the same (and both players had large salaries that we couldn't get out of which hurt our cap)and Jarvis Jenkins tore his Acl as a rookie in 2012. By the time Baker developed into a good DL in 2014 it was Cofield who was beat up and battling injuries.

You can't have a good DL with only one good DL and that was our problem in 2012 and 2013.
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TheGreeK1973


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 13, 2017 7:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think its better with a good chance of being a lot better. Why? Coaching and more talent. Yea Baker was good but no where near as good as Allen can be. The FA pickups are better IMO than RJF and edge rushing could be lethal. But what is going to help the DL in the running game a lot I think is Z Brown. Its a huge upgrade on what we had last year and I think along with Mason they will do very well. I just don't think Compton will be a starter this year, he is limited period.
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