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Jay- feeling increased pressure to win this year?
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MKnight82


Joined: 04 Mar 2009
Posts: 19354
PostPosted: Tue Jun 13, 2017 2:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

DCRED wrote:
turtle28 wrote:
DCRED wrote:
turtle28 wrote:
DCRED wrote:
Dashing wrote:
Facts jay Gruden is intact the best head coach we have had since Gibbs .

Facts .

He might of been stubborn but our O is progressively good and did a good job in the offseason with Allen and Campbell .


Have to agree. After Spurrier and Zorn and all the other clowns I can't remember.... Jay has been molding a team that is starting to look dangerous, and the Defense is a few players away from being one that teams are scared to play against.

I'm all in with Jay because no "proven" coach is ever going to come here and work under the Snyder.
I am too a Jay fan, but I just can't say he's a better "coach than Shanahan." Shanahan is still and always will be a back to back super bowl winning coach. In a lot of ways, Jay's tenure in DC has been the same as Shanahan's. They were both good offensive coaches that were able to build powerful offenses. There's no doubt in my mind that if Shanahan was our coach still that the team wouldn't be similar because by now Shanahan would have Cousins as our qb, and our running game would almost definitely be better because of Shanahan's ZBS with Alfred Morris or another running back.

The problem Shanahan had was having the final say on personnel issues and building a defense - except in 2011 - but that was short lived because of injury. Where Shanahan messed up, and this franchise has continued to mess up since he left is building a better than average defense. The poor play of the defense and the way the Shanahan and RG3 feud ended in 2013 were the reasons he was gone after that season.

So, I'll say that if Shanahan was still here, our team would be similar to what it is under Jay and we'd almost definitely have a better running game so, our team may have been better the last two years if Shanahan was our coach.

Also, I believe that if Jay and Allen don't eventually build their defense to play better than average then, they'll find themselves fired in a few years just like Ceratto and Zorn were in 09 and Shanahan was in 2013.
Cmon Man I backed Shanahan (BOTH) and you ran them into the ground for YEARS. I showed examples of things Shanahan came up with and why Kyle is a genius, only to get ripped by only You. I really can't believe you would do the Ultimate Flip-flop on this. It was a matter of contention between us and many in the forum with you going Nuts trying to ruin Sr. and Jr.
When you go that hard on something for years and fully exasperate people who try and convince you otherwise, you don't get the right to make a post like this and be taken seriously.
I refuse to respond because I'm still shaking my head every time I look up.

I can't even start, you even vehemently discounted his Superbowl wins, as well as anything at all positive you can try and say about him now. I can't play this game.
Well they were idiots at times like when Kyle and Mike decided that Grossman and Beck could be good answers at qb. Mike was an idiot for how he mishandled the Griffin injury. He also screwed up most of his draft picks. Kyle was dumb for thinking he knows it all and not running out the clock when he has a lead like in the super bowl.

That being said he was still a very competent coach. If we had a Real GM and Shanahan was just the HC things may have been different.


NOT PLAYING. You have argued your extreme personal hatred of BOTH Shanahans for too many years for me to take anything you say on the matter seriously. No need for you to respond unless you enjoy talking to yourself. You destroyed your credibility long ago.
He does this on so many topics it isn't even funny.
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turtle28


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 13, 2017 3:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Woosh! Right over the head! Laughing

A coach can be a good coach overall but make mistakes and not be perfect. I didn't think it was working with the Shanahan's in DC, they had 4 years and it had mostly been a mess as they struggled to field a better than average defense and they had issues with every qb they acquired.

They made a lot of mistakes and it didn't work out as well as most thought it would but that does not mean that they were worse than the guy we currently have or a Zorn or something. I think most expected more out of the Shanahan's sadly we didn't get it but they still know football and have been successful most places they've gone.

My point is that Mike Shanahan's pedigree was/is better than Jay Gruden's and because of that I'd have him over Gruden as an actually coach but I can't be on board with Shanahan as a personnel guy because he mostly failed in that department for the second half of his tenure in Denver and in DC. He just wasn't good at that, we all know the draft busts he had from 2012-13 and how many free agent acquisitions he made they didn't work out.

So until otherwise I'd say at this point Shanahan is a better coach now, that could change if Gruden can win some more and deliver some big games for us.
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FosterTheSkins


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 13, 2017 4:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

turtle28 wrote:
Woosh! Right over the head! Laughing

A coach can be a good coach overall but make mistakes and not be perfect. I didn't think it was working with the Shanahan's in DC, they had 4 years and it had mostly been a mess as they struggled to field a better than average defense and they had issues with every qb they acquired.

They made a lot of mistakes and it didn't work out as well as most thought it would but that does not mean that they were worse than the guy we currently have or a Zorn or something. I think most expected more out of the Shanahan's sadly we didn't get it but they still know football and have been successful most places they've gone.

My point is that Mike Shanahan's pedigree was/is better than Jay Gruden's and because of that I'd have him over Gruden as an actually coach but I can't be on board with Shanahan as a personnel guy because he mostly failed in that department for the second half of his tenure in Denver and in DC. He just wasn't good at that, we all know the draft busts he had from 2012-13 and how many free agent acquisitions he made they didn't work out.

So until otherwise I'd say at this point Shanahan is a better coach now, that could change if Gruden can win some more and deliver some big games for us.


Overall Shanahan is a better coach than Jay but as a Redskins head coach I would give the nod to Gruden. Other than 2012 everyone of Mike's season were dreadful. JG has gotten better each passing year. And Jay was the first coach in a long time to bring the Burgundy & Gold to back to back winning seasons. And the first coach to get an extension under Snyder.
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MKnight82


Joined: 04 Mar 2009
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 13, 2017 4:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

FosterTheSkins wrote:
turtle28 wrote:
Woosh! Right over the head! Laughing

A coach can be a good coach overall but make mistakes and not be perfect. I didn't think it was working with the Shanahan's in DC, they had 4 years and it had mostly been a mess as they struggled to field a better than average defense and they had issues with every qb they acquired.

They made a lot of mistakes and it didn't work out as well as most thought it would but that does not mean that they were worse than the guy we currently have or a Zorn or something. I think most expected more out of the Shanahan's sadly we didn't get it but they still know football and have been successful most places they've gone.

My point is that Mike Shanahan's pedigree was/is better than Jay Gruden's and because of that I'd have him over Gruden as an actually coach but I can't be on board with Shanahan as a personnel guy because he mostly failed in that department for the second half of his tenure in Denver and in DC. He just wasn't good at that, we all know the draft busts he had from 2012-13 and how many free agent acquisitions he made they didn't work out.

So until otherwise I'd say at this point Shanahan is a better coach now, that could change if Gruden can win some more and deliver some big games for us.


Overall Shanahan is a better coach than Jay but as a Redskins head coach I would give the nod to Gruden. Other than 2012 everyone of Mike's season were dreadful. JG has gotten better each passing year. And Jay was the first coach in a long time to bring the Burgundy & Gold to back to back winning seasons. And the first coach to get an extension under Snyder.
Hard to judge because Shanahan was force fed a college athlete that couldn't play QB by Allen and Snyder.
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turtle28


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 13, 2017 4:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

FosterTheSkins wrote:
turtle28 wrote:
Woosh! Right over the head! Laughing

A coach can be a good coach overall but make mistakes and not be perfect. I didn't think it was working with the Shanahan's in DC, they had 4 years and it had mostly been a mess as they struggled to field a better than average defense and they had issues with every qb they acquired.

They made a lot of mistakes and it didn't work out as well as most thought it would but that does not mean that they were worse than the guy we currently have or a Zorn or something. I think most expected more out of the Shanahan's sadly we didn't get it but they still know football and have been successful most places they've gone.

My point is that Mike Shanahan's pedigree was/is better than Jay Gruden's and because of that I'd have him over Gruden as an actually coach but I can't be on board with Shanahan as a personnel guy because he mostly failed in that department for the second half of his tenure in Denver and in DC. He just wasn't good at that, we all know the draft busts he had from 2012-13 and how many free agent acquisitions he made they didn't work out.

So until otherwise I'd say at this point Shanahan is a better coach now, that could change if Gruden can win some more and deliver some big games for us.


Overall Shanahan is a better coach than Jay but as a Redskins head coach I would give the nod to Gruden. Other than 2012 everyone of Mike's season were dreadful. JG has gotten better each passing year. And Jay was the first coach in a long time to bring the Burgundy & Gold to back to back winning seasons. And the first coach to get an extension under Snyder.
I don't disagree with that take. You're looking at how Gruden keeps getting better and better as our coach and it seems the team and qb are progressing as well. I just can't get past the Shanahan pedigree to say that Gruden is currently better.

Wow! Never realized Gruden is the first ever coach to get an extension under Snyder, now that is impressive!
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turtle28


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 13, 2017 4:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

MKnight82 wrote:
FosterTheSkins wrote:
turtle28 wrote:
Woosh! Right over the head! Laughing

A coach can be a good coach overall but make mistakes and not be perfect. I didn't think it was working with the Shanahan's in DC, they had 4 years and it had mostly been a mess as they struggled to field a better than average defense and they had issues with every qb they acquired.

They made a lot of mistakes and it didn't work out as well as most thought it would but that does not mean that they were worse than the guy we currently have or a Zorn or something. I think most expected more out of the Shanahan's sadly we didn't get it but they still know football and have been successful most places they've gone.

My point is that Mike Shanahan's pedigree was/is better than Jay Gruden's and because of that I'd have him over Gruden as an actually coach but I can't be on board with Shanahan as a personnel guy because he mostly failed in that department for the second half of his tenure in Denver and in DC. He just wasn't good at that, we all know the draft busts he had from 2012-13 and how many free agent acquisitions he made they didn't work out.

So until otherwise I'd say at this point Shanahan is a better coach now, that could change if Gruden can win some more and deliver some big games for us.


Overall Shanahan is a better coach than Jay but as a Redskins head coach I would give the nod to Gruden. Other than 2012 everyone of Mike's season were dreadful. JG has gotten better each passing year. And Jay was the first coach in a long time to bring the Burgundy & Gold to back to back winning seasons. And the first coach to get an extension under Snyder.
Hard to judge because Shanahan was force fed a college athlete that couldn't play QB by Allen and Snyder.
Rolling Eyes You mean the one he was so excited to get, had his son go personally scout and loved as a rookie!

Laughing
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MKnight82


Joined: 04 Mar 2009
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 13, 2017 4:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

turtle28 wrote:
MKnight82 wrote:
FosterTheSkins wrote:
turtle28 wrote:
Woosh! Right over the head! Laughing

A coach can be a good coach overall but make mistakes and not be perfect. I didn't think it was working with the Shanahan's in DC, they had 4 years and it had mostly been a mess as they struggled to field a better than average defense and they had issues with every qb they acquired.

They made a lot of mistakes and it didn't work out as well as most thought it would but that does not mean that they were worse than the guy we currently have or a Zorn or something. I think most expected more out of the Shanahan's sadly we didn't get it but they still know football and have been successful most places they've gone.

My point is that Mike Shanahan's pedigree was/is better than Jay Gruden's and because of that I'd have him over Gruden as an actually coach but I can't be on board with Shanahan as a personnel guy because he mostly failed in that department for the second half of his tenure in Denver and in DC. He just wasn't good at that, we all know the draft busts he had from 2012-13 and how many free agent acquisitions he made they didn't work out.

So until otherwise I'd say at this point Shanahan is a better coach now, that could change if Gruden can win some more and deliver some big games for us.


Overall Shanahan is a better coach than Jay but as a Redskins head coach I would give the nod to Gruden. Other than 2012 everyone of Mike's season were dreadful. JG has gotten better each passing year. And Jay was the first coach in a long time to bring the Burgundy & Gold to back to back winning seasons. And the first coach to get an extension under Snyder.
Hard to judge because Shanahan was force fed a college athlete that couldn't play QB by Allen and Snyder.
Rolling Eyes You mean the one he was so excited to get, had his son go personally scout and loved as a rookie!

Laughing
The one he was so excited about that he drafted his eventual replacement in the same draft. Yeah. RG3 was Allen and Snyder's doing. If you think differently you're playing ignorant.
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DCRED


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 13, 2017 9:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

turtle28 wrote:
Woosh! Right over the head! Laughing

.
Nothing right over the head Rolling Eyes or misunderstood about you changing your story again after years of hatefully ragging coaches to an obsessed level then trying to speak positively about the exact things you totally discounted and made excuses to refute before.
For instance, you used to say the only reason Shanahan won a SB was Elway. Then keep on ripping him and change the subject to his defenses etc.
I'm just going to quit paying any mind to your posts because you will just change your story 3 years after you over-argue everything and say the opposite when it suits you.
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turtle28


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 13, 2017 10:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

DCRED wrote:
turtle28 wrote:
Woosh! Right over the head! Laughing

.
Nothing right over the head Rolling Eyes or misunderstood about you changing your story again after years of hatefully ragging coaches to an obsessed level then trying to speak positively about the exact things you totally discounted and made excuses to refute before.
For instance, you used to say the only reason Shanahan won a SB was Elway. Then keep on ripping him and change the subject to his defenses etc.
I'm just going to quit paying any mind to your posts because you will just change your story 3 years after you over-argue everything and say the opposite when it suits you.
Well he hasn't won a super bowl without Elway has he? Or without a GM selecting the players for him. That doesn't make him a bad coach though, that's just the facts. Every coach wins Super Bowls because they have great players.
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