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Vince Williams 2017 Expectations
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the lone star


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 05, 2017 4:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

warfelg wrote:
I expect more of the same:

33% - Oh that's a nice play.
33% - Eh, all LB'ers should make that play
33% - WHF $%*&#($*^@%(*&#)$(@*%&)(#%


1% Karlos' Brother?
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warfelg


Joined: 12 Jan 2014
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Location: Richmond Va
PostPosted: Mon Jun 05, 2017 7:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

the lone star wrote:
warfelg wrote:
I expect more of the same:

33% - Oh that's a nice play.
33% - Eh, all LB'ers should make that play
33% - WHF $%*&#($*^@%(*&#)$(@*%&)(#%


1% Karlos' Brother?



Laughing touche.

But that's who VW is as a player. I don't get why people think he's suddenly going to be way different.
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jebrick wrote:
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Jarvis Jones signs with Steelers


Hahahahaha.

Jones' only chance is to go to Tenn. Otherwise he is flipping burgers this fall.
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armsteeld


Joined: 02 Mar 2009
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 05, 2017 7:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

warfelg wrote:
the lone star wrote:
warfelg wrote:
I expect more of the same:

33% - Oh that's a nice play.
33% - Eh, all LB'ers should make that play
33% - WHF $%*&#($*^@%(*&#)$(@*%&)(#%


1% Karlos' Brother?



Laughing touche.

But that's who VW is as a player. I don't get why people think he's suddenly going to be way different.


I agree with your assessment. VW is gap sound and it showed a couple games where he was stacking in front of other LBs. Gap discipline is very important and Williams is lacking in that capacity.
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warfelg


Joined: 12 Jan 2014
Posts: 3564
Location: Richmond Va
PostPosted: Mon Jun 05, 2017 7:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

armsteeld wrote:
warfelg wrote:
the lone star wrote:
warfelg wrote:
I expect more of the same:

33% - Oh that's a nice play.
33% - Eh, all LB'ers should make that play
33% - WHF $%*&#($*^@%(*&#)$(@*%&)(#%


1% Karlos' Brother?



Laughing touche.

But that's who VW is as a player. I don't get why people think he's suddenly going to be way different.


I agree with your assessment. VW is gap sound and it showed a couple games where he was stacking in front of other LBs. Gap discipline is very important and Williams is lacking in that capacity.


I feel like that sometimes he feels like he could be really good when he's playing within the defense.

The problem is I think too often he goes off script to try to make a play. I'll try to find it but there's quite a few times where he shoots the gap rather than plugs it, misses the tackle, then the blockers are able to get up on the next level and spring the RB for another 5-10 yards.

Honestly I give it 3 games before all the posters in here talking about how VW is going to be good in replacing start to whine that VW isn't good and we need to take a LB early in the draft.

In fact, I wouldn't be shocked if Matakevitch ends up playing a good number of snaps this year.
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jebrick wrote:
Quote:
Jarvis Jones signs with Steelers


Hahahahaha.

Jones' only chance is to go to Tenn. Otherwise he is flipping burgers this fall.
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FourThreeMafia


Joined: 28 Sep 2006
Posts: 63655
Location: East of Sixburgh
PostPosted: Mon Jun 05, 2017 1:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Chieferific wrote:
FourThreeMafia wrote:
Vince is a great backup, and I see him being a very average starter....maybe below average, depending on how he is used. He is too limited in the passing game.

That being said, I could honestly see TJ Watt going the Timmons route and playing ILB in the long term and flip flopping early on.

That would be frustrating as he was supposed to be the answer to the Pass Rush problem nor was ILB a RD 1 need in most people's opinions (not that it matters much). There were arguably better ILBs to be had and perhaps better Rd 1 selections to made instead of a OLB moving to ILB.


Tomlin and Colbert like positional flexibility....for better or for worse.

Timmons moved to ILB permanently after he proved he didnt have the tools to be a capable pass rusher in this league.

Watt IMO could move to ILB in subpackages, especially on obviously passing downs, and Harrison and Dupree could be the OLBs.

We have some weak links in the front 7, especially when it comes to situational football. Watt may not move to ILB permanently like Timmons did, but I could see him getting moved around early on....depending on his development.

Too early to say, but its safe to say that ILB could be an early round need next year.
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FourThreeMafia


Joined: 28 Sep 2006
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 05, 2017 1:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

warfelg wrote:
armsteeld wrote:
warfelg wrote:
the lone star wrote:
warfelg wrote:
I expect more of the same:

33% - Oh that's a nice play.
33% - Eh, all LB'ers should make that play
33% - WHF $%*&#($*^@%(*&#)$(@*%&)(#%


1% Karlos' Brother?



Laughing touche.

But that's who VW is as a player. I don't get why people think he's suddenly going to be way different.


I agree with your assessment. VW is gap sound and it showed a couple games where he was stacking in front of other LBs. Gap discipline is very important and Williams is lacking in that capacity.


I feel like that sometimes he feels like he could be really good when he's playing within the defense.

The problem is I think too often he goes off script to try to make a play. I'll try to find it but there's quite a few times where he shoots the gap rather than plugs it, misses the tackle, then the blockers are able to get up on the next level and spring the RB for another 5-10 yards.

Honestly I give it 3 games before all the posters in here talking about how VW is going to be good in replacing start to whine that VW isn't good and we need to take a LB early in the draft.

In fact, I wouldn't be shocked if Matakevitch ends up playing a good number of snaps this year.


You mean all 2 or 3 posters?

I dont think anyone expects VW to set the world on fire. Most people thinking he will be good just think he will be a decent replacement for Timmons. He has outplayed Timmons in the past. Much like with Ike Taylor, some Steeler fans seemingly choose to ignore how often Timmons struggled and act like he was better than he ever really was.

Dont get me wrong, Timmons was pretty good most of 2016, and has had some really good stretches in the past, but he was always way too inconsistent. Your little breakdown of Vince Williams is basically on par with Timmons much of the last 5 years. I do think Timmons was better, but youre acting like VW is replacing a superstar when he is not....and I dont think the vast majority of Steeler fans, even those optimistic about VW, would be shocked if we need an ILB next offseason.

And if Matakevich develop to the point where he sees alot of snaps, I dont think anyone would complain.
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JLambert58


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 05, 2017 3:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Young VW = Old Timmons

I don't think there will be a big dropoff. I think they are pretty comparable players at this point. My only concern is: Is VW ready to start 16 - 20 games? I lean towards yes. But I agree with 43M that Matakevich could make a strong push for playing time.
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3rivers


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 05, 2017 5:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

JLambert58 wrote:
Young VW = Old Timmons

I don't think there will be a big dropoff. I think they are pretty comparable players at this point. My only concern is: Is VW ready to start 16 - 20 games? I lean towards yes. But I agree with 43M that Matakevich could make a strong push for playing time.


they could rotate others to preserve VW if he can't handle the abuse of ILB full time. The preserved Harrison, why not VW?
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warfelg


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 05, 2017 6:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

3rivers wrote:
JLambert58 wrote:
Young VW = Old Timmons

I don't think there will be a big dropoff. I think they are pretty comparable players at this point. My only concern is: Is VW ready to start 16 - 20 games? I lean towards yes. But I agree with 43M that Matakevich could make a strong push for playing time.


they could rotate others to preserve VW if he can't handle the abuse of ILB full time. The preserved Harrison, why not VW?


They did that because Harrison is 38, nothing else.

If they are rotating other guys in with VW its because he sucks.
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jebrick wrote:
Quote:
Jarvis Jones signs with Steelers


Hahahahaha.

Jones' only chance is to go to Tenn. Otherwise he is flipping burgers this fall.
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armsteeld


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 05, 2017 9:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think Watt would be an excellent MLB. He is agile, fast, smart, and would instantly be able to cover TEs. VW has a nasty demeanor but his play leaves much to be desired. Hopefully Adams and Riddick can push Moats and Chickillo for playing time.
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JLambert58


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 05, 2017 9:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

armsteeld wrote:
I think Watt would be an excellent MLB. He is agile, fast, smart, and would instantly be able to cover TEs. VW has a nasty demeanor but his play leaves much to be desired. Hopefully Adams and Riddick can push Moats and Chickillo for playing time.


Agree Watt would make for a great ILB but I'm sure they'll give him every opportunity to succeed at OLB first.

Would be great if Adams could be a starting OLB. I think he has the potential to do it.

- btw Who is Riddick?



This guy?
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armsteeld


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 05, 2017 10:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

JLambert58 wrote:
armsteeld wrote:
I think Watt would be an excellent MLB. He is agile, fast, smart, and would instantly be able to cover TEs. VW has a nasty demeanor but his play leaves much to be desired. Hopefully Adams and Riddick can push Moats and Chickillo for playing time.


Agree Watt would make for a great ILB but I'm sure they'll give him every opportunity to succeed at OLB first.

Would be great if Adams could be a starting OLB. I think he has the potential to do it.

- btw Who is Riddick?



This guy?


Ha. Nice but nope. This one...


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JLambert58


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 05, 2017 11:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

armsteeld wrote:
JLambert58 wrote:
armsteeld wrote:
I think Watt would be an excellent MLB. He is agile, fast, smart, and would instantly be able to cover TEs. VW has a nasty demeanor but his play leaves much to be desired. Hopefully Adams and Riddick can push Moats and Chickillo for playing time.


Agree Watt would make for a great ILB but I'm sure they'll give him every opportunity to succeed at OLB first.

Would be great if Adams could be a starting OLB. I think he has the potential to do it.

- btw Who is Riddick?



This guy?


Ha. Nice but nope. This one...



Laughing Is he still on the PS? Haven't heard a peep about him. I don't think he's on the team anymore.
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armsteeld


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 06, 2017 7:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's OTAs. You won't hear much about pass rushers until training camp.
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Chieferific


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 06, 2017 10:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

This shouldn't be a Plug and Play situation (Timmons for VW). There has to be some adjustments here due to different skillsets. Timmons by far played the most snaps at the LB position last year. Of course some of that has to do with Shazier's injuries but history suggests there is a good chance that happens again. If VW plays the most snaps of all the LBs we're in trouble. So, if they plan on just replacing Timmons with VW and have VW do everything that Timmons did that's a recipe for disaster IMO.
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