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PapaShogun


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 14, 2017 3:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Funny thing is that Baltimore was ranked 12th in Pro Football Outsiders 2016 DVOA rankings, while Miami was ranked 17th. They even put the Dolphins behind Cincinnati and Arizona. Very Happy

Dolphins haven't done anything in a long, long, time. Probably going to take a while before some people (like myself) take them seriously.
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MrOaktown_56


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 14, 2017 3:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

PapaShogun wrote:
Funny thing is that Baltimore was ranked 12th in Pro Football Outsiders 2016 DVOA rankings, while Miami was ranked 17th. They even put the Dolphins behind Cincinnati and Arizona. Very Happy

Dolphins haven't done anything in a long, long, time. Probably going to take a while before some people (like myself) take them seriously.


I think it might take the 49ers 2 more years to equal the dolphins' 10 wins from last year.
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Danand wrote:
Carr is 22-25,no playoff games, I'd take Flacco over him.To me it seems like Flacco is just where he belongs. Behind the Brady, Roethlisberger,Rivers,Rodgers,Wilson and ahead of Carr,Tannehill,Cousins,Palmer,Dalton,Luck
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wackywabbit


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 14, 2017 5:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

MrOaktown_56 wrote:
PapaShogun wrote:
Funny thing is that Baltimore was ranked 12th in Pro Football Outsiders 2016 DVOA rankings, while Miami was ranked 17th. They even put the Dolphins behind Cincinnati and Arizona. Very Happy

Dolphins haven't done anything in a long, long, time. Probably going to take a while before some people (like myself) take them seriously.


I think it might take the 49ers 2 more years to equal the dolphins' 10 wins from last year.


Why can't a fan be pessimistic about a team's status without someone attacking the team they root for? I don't pick teams I expect to exceed or fall to expectations based on how much their fans annoy me. There is no correlation and it's irrelevant. Any 1/10th decent analysis should separate feeling about fanbases or specific fans. And there is nothing that makes a Browns' fan analysis worse than a Pats' fans.

Re: the Dolphins I agree. I acknowledge that they won 10 games last year, but I feel like that last year was as well as they can do right now. I just can't fathom this team winning multiple playoff games, and I'd be honestly be less stunned if teams like the Bengals or Chargers or maybe even the Jaguars did, because I can at least see a scenario where they are great at a couple things that could carry them to victory. The Dolphins should be good on the O-line and have good playmakers, but I can't see them being like a top 10 offense, and their defense seems middle of the pack at best.

Maybe, I'm wrong about them, but I'm not basing it on not liking the Dolphins players or fans. FYI, the Vegas O/U for the dolphins was a losing record (7.5 wins), same as the Chargers. So, it's very fair to say the public needs some convincing.
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Forge


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 14, 2017 5:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

MrOaktown_56 wrote:
PapaShogun wrote:
Funny thing is that Baltimore was ranked 12th in Pro Football Outsiders 2016 DVOA rankings, while Miami was ranked 17th. They even put the Dolphins behind Cincinnati and Arizona. Very Happy

Dolphins haven't done anything in a long, long, time. Probably going to take a while before some people (like myself) take them seriously.


I think it might take the 49ers 2 more years to equal the dolphins' 10 wins from last year.


What does the 49ers record have to do with the conversation? Is his statement or opinion somehow less valid because he roots for a bad team? Is he not allowed to feel a certain way about another team because the team he roots for happens to be a mess? Can only fans of good teams offer comments and analysis on other teams?
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MrOaktown_56


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 14, 2017 5:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Forge wrote:
MrOaktown_56 wrote:
PapaShogun wrote:
Funny thing is that Baltimore was ranked 12th in Pro Football Outsiders 2016 DVOA rankings, while Miami was ranked 17th. They even put the Dolphins behind Cincinnati and Arizona. Very Happy

Dolphins haven't done anything in a long, long, time. Probably going to take a while before some people (like myself) take them seriously.


I think it might take the 49ers 2 more years to equal the dolphins' 10 wins from last year.


What does the 49ers record have to do with the conversation? Is his statement or opinion somehow less valid because he roots for a bad team? Is he not allowed to feel a certain way about another team because the team he roots for happens to be a mess? Can only fans of good teams offer comments and analysis on other teams?


Thats not it. His statement is just bad. It's just made funnier by the context.

I find it funny that a fan of a team that is the laughingstock of the league is passing judgment on not taking a 10 win team seriously.

You don't take a 2 win team seriously. I guarantee every team in the league takes the Dolphins seriously WITH TANEHILL.

I agree with Moore they weren't going anywhere in the playoffs, but they're clearly a talented team and I have no dog in this fight regarding supporting/hating the dolphins.

Some of the hot takes in this thread are stunningly bad Laughing .
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Danand wrote:
Carr is 22-25,no playoff games, I'd take Flacco over him.To me it seems like Flacco is just where he belongs. Behind the Brady, Roethlisberger,Rivers,Rodgers,Wilson and ahead of Carr,Tannehill,Cousins,Palmer,Dalton,Luck
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PapaShogun


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 15, 2017 12:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

MrOaktown_56 wrote:
PapaShogun wrote:
Funny thing is that Baltimore was ranked 12th in Pro Football Outsiders 2016 DVOA rankings, while Miami was ranked 17th. They even put the Dolphins behind Cincinnati and Arizona. Very Happy

Dolphins haven't done anything in a long, long, time. Probably going to take a while before some people (like myself) take them seriously.


I think it might take the 49ers 2 more years to equal the dolphins' 10 wins from last year.
LOL okay and? What does that have to do with the Dolphins having done nothing as a franchise since I guess the early 2000's? They haven't won a playoff game since 2000. Other than that they've been the NFL's doormat. The only couple times they made the playoffs in like 15 years they got knocked out by Baltimore.

Taking a shot at the 49ers does nothing to detract from my point.
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PapaShogun


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 15, 2017 12:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

MrOaktown_56 wrote:
Forge wrote:
MrOaktown_56 wrote:
PapaShogun wrote:
Funny thing is that Baltimore was ranked 12th in Pro Football Outsiders 2016 DVOA rankings, while Miami was ranked 17th. They even put the Dolphins behind Cincinnati and Arizona. Very Happy

Dolphins haven't done anything in a long, long, time. Probably going to take a while before some people (like myself) take them seriously.


I think it might take the 49ers 2 more years to equal the dolphins' 10 wins from last year.


What does the 49ers record have to do with the conversation? Is his statement or opinion somehow less valid because he roots for a bad team? Is he not allowed to feel a certain way about another team because the team he roots for happens to be a mess? Can only fans of good teams offer comments and analysis on other teams?


Thats not it. His statement is just bad. It's just made funnier by the context.

I find it funny that a fan of a team that is the laughingstock of the league is passing judgment on not taking a 10 win team seriously.

You don't take a 2 win team seriously. I guarantee every team in the league takes the Dolphins seriously WITH TANEHILL.

I agree with Moore they weren't going anywhere in the playoffs, but they're clearly a talented team and I have no dog in this fight regarding supporting/hating the dolphins.

Some of the hot takes in this thread are stunningly bad Laughing .


This logic is nutty. So because someone that is a fan of a team that isn't very good, it means that if they aren't convinced about a 10 win team (because as well all know the W/L is the great equalizer for a team in a season worth of a zillion snaps) they're a loon. Why does fanhood equate to one's football acumen? Or their opinion holding water? That literally makes no sense and it's the logic you're trying to sell.

You may find it funny, but I don't think anyone else here is laughing. Except at you maybe :/
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Last edited by PapaShogun on Thu Jun 15, 2017 3:40 am; edited 2 times in total
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Jakuvious


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 15, 2017 1:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

MrOaktown_56 wrote:
Forge wrote:
MrOaktown_56 wrote:
PapaShogun wrote:
Funny thing is that Baltimore was ranked 12th in Pro Football Outsiders 2016 DVOA rankings, while Miami was ranked 17th. They even put the Dolphins behind Cincinnati and Arizona. Very Happy

Dolphins haven't done anything in a long, long, time. Probably going to take a while before some people (like myself) take them seriously.


I think it might take the 49ers 2 more years to equal the dolphins' 10 wins from last year.


What does the 49ers record have to do with the conversation? Is his statement or opinion somehow less valid because he roots for a bad team? Is he not allowed to feel a certain way about another team because the team he roots for happens to be a mess? Can only fans of good teams offer comments and analysis on other teams?


Thats not it. His statement is just bad. It's just made funnier by the context.

I find it funny that a fan of a team that is the laughingstock of the league is passing judgment on not taking a 10 win team seriously.

You don't take a 2 win team seriously. I guarantee every team in the league takes the Dolphins seriously WITH TANEHILL.

I agree with Moore they weren't going anywhere in the playoffs, but they're clearly a talented team and I have no dog in this fight regarding supporting/hating the dolphins.

Some of the hot takes in this thread are stunningly bad Laughing .


It would be one thing if he was trying to prop up the 49ers while saying no one takes the Dolphins seriously, but he's not. Who he's a fan of is 100% irrelevant in this discussion. And if we're going to go that route, I'd think a Raider fan would be a little more sympathetic to the opinions of a fan of a bad team, after the last decade and a half. Act like you've been there, and remember when you weren't.
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MrOaktown_56


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 15, 2017 4:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jakuvious wrote:


And if we're going to go that route, I'd think a Raider fan would be a little more sympathetic to the opinions of a fan of a bad team, after the last decade and a half. Act like you've been there, and remember when you weren't.


But I have though. And that's why I can't sympathize with a take like this

It's not that he has an opinion, but I vehemently disagree so I'll call it out. I mentioned the 49ers more as an example of a team to which he referred. I didn't elaborate so it probably came of as a purely personal attack, but to be fair, if I was a dolphins fan, reading a comment like that would probably incense me.

I remember a few years back, you responded to a raiders poster, who commented "no one takes the Chiefs seriously because they're always one and done in the playoffs" and your response was something along the lines of "at least we make the playoffs and aren't at the bottom of the league every year". With the context I've established above, I don't see how that's so far off.

PapaShogun wrote:

This logic is nutty. So because someone that is a fan of a team that isn't very good, it means that if they aren't convinced about a 10 win team (because as well all know the W/L is the great equalizer for a team in a season worth of a zillion snaps) they're a loon. Why does fanhood equate to one's football acumen? Or their opinion holding water? That literally makes no sense and it's the logic you're trying to sell.

You may find it funny, but I don't think anyone else here is laughing. Except at you maybe :/


"aren't convinced"? You said "no one is taking them seriously". Which is disrespectful. And with no analysis whatsoever beyond saying they haven't made any deep runs in the last 15 years. What does that have to do with next year? They just won 10 games. I'd say that's enough to "take them seriously".

I'm not saying you can't pass any judgment you want as a 49ers fan. You can pass any judgment I want. I just find it funny that you describe a 10 win team in that way, when you and I, being a fan of a team that has been mired in mediocrity, would recognize what a bad/mediocre team looks like. And the dolphins are not it.

I remember when the Raiders were 0-10 2 years back and that would be a team that no one takes seriously. Not a team vying for and earning a playoff spot.

Please tell me how a team with 3 talented WRs all 25 and under, a good qb about to hit his prime, a running back that led the league in broken tackles, and a defense featuring Ndamukong Suh and Reshad Jones, which wins 10 games with their starting qb out for 3 games is not to be taken seriously?

And in their offseason, they hit it out of the park for me, and added Julius Thomas, William Hayes, and Lawrence Timmons.

Adam gase is an excellent coach as well from everything I know/have seen about him.

I'll take any team like that seriously.
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Danand wrote:
Carr is 22-25,no playoff games, I'd take Flacco over him.To me it seems like Flacco is just where he belongs. Behind the Brady, Roethlisberger,Rivers,Rodgers,Wilson and ahead of Carr,Tannehill,Cousins,Palmer,Dalton,Luck
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PapaShogun


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 15, 2017 5:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

MrOaktown_56 wrote:
"aren't convinced"? You said "no one is taking them seriously". Which is disrespectful. And with no analysis whatsoever beyond saying they haven't made any deep runs in the last 15 years. What does that have to do with next year? They just won 10 games. I'd say that's enough to "take them seriously".

I'm not saying you can't pass any judgment you want as a 49ers fan. You can pass any judgment I want. I just find it funny that you describe a 10 win team in that way, when you and I, being a fan of a team that has been mired in mediocrity, would recognize what a bad/mediocre team looks like. And the dolphins are not it.

I remember when the Raiders were 0-10 2 years back and that would be a team that no one takes seriously. Not a team vying for and earning a playoff spot.

Please tell me how a team with 3 talented WRs all 25 and under, a good qb about to hit his prime, a running back that led the league in broken tackles, and a defense featuring Ndamukong Suh and Reshad Jones, which wins 10 games with their starting qb out for 3 games is not to be taken seriously?

And in their offseason, they hit it out of the park for me, and added Julius Thomas, William Hayes, and Lawrence Timmons.

Adam gase is an excellent coach as well from everything I know/have seen about him.

I'll take any team like that seriously.


I can't control who gets offended by my opinion on the Dolphins. I mean how disrespectful is it really to have the opinion that the Dolphins don't seem legitimate to me? They won 10 games. Okay. Get to a championship game. Win a playoff game. Win your division. Heck, make the playoffs. Is Pro Football Outsiders disrespectful because they ranked the 6-9-1 Bengals and 7-8-1 Cardinals ahead in DVOA?

And I didn't say "no one is taking them seriously". The exact thing I said was "Probably going to take a while before some people (like myself) take them seriously." And yes there is a difference.

Yes the 49ers have been bad recently. They've also been good at various points in their franchise. So based on this logic you're trying to establish here, should I know what a quality team looks like since as a 49ers fan I've seen a lot of good teams in that franchise? This is another example of why you're rhetoric of "oh you're a fan of a team that sucks now, so your opinion on a team that is better than yours not impressing you is dumb" just doesn't make sense.

And what about NFL fans that have no allegiance to any specific team? How does this apply to them? If someone that doesn't have a team say that the Dolphins don't seem that great to them, does their opinion also not hold water and/or amusing?

Everything you listed on paper as to why the Dolphins should be dope...umm...great. Like I said, win a playoff game first. Or make the fudging playoffs. Or win more than 10 games in back to back years. Then we'll talk. I remember when the Browns went 10-6 in 2007 too. To me the bar shouldn't be "okay we won ten games now we can kick it with the big dawgs".
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MrOaktown_56


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 15, 2017 7:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

PapaShogun wrote:
MrOaktown_56 wrote:
"aren't convinced"? You said "no one is taking them seriously". Which is disrespectful. And with no analysis whatsoever beyond saying they haven't made any deep runs in the last 15 years. What does that have to do with next year? They just won 10 games. I'd say that's enough to "take them seriously".

I'm not saying you can't pass any judgment you want as a 49ers fan. You can pass any judgment I want. I just find it funny that you describe a 10 win team in that way, when you and I, being a fan of a team that has been mired in mediocrity, would recognize what a bad/mediocre team looks like. And the dolphins are not it.

I remember when the Raiders were 0-10 2 years back and that would be a team that no one takes seriously. Not a team vying for and earning a playoff spot.

Please tell me how a team with 3 talented WRs all 25 and under, a good qb about to hit his prime, a running back that led the league in broken tackles, and a defense featuring Ndamukong Suh and Reshad Jones, which wins 10 games with their starting qb out for 3 games is not to be taken seriously?

And in their offseason, they hit it out of the park for me, and added Julius Thomas, William Hayes, and Lawrence Timmons.

Adam gase is an excellent coach as well from everything I know/have seen about him.

I'll take any team like that seriously.


Yes the 49ers have been bad recently. They've also been good at various points in their franchise. So based on this logic you're trying to establish here, should I know what a quality team looks like since as a 49ers fan I've seen a lot of good teams in that franchise? This is another example of why you're rhetoric of "oh you're a fan of a team that sucks now, so your opinion on a team that is better than yours not impressing you is dumb" just doesn't make sense.


And what about NFL fans that have no allegiance to any specific team? How does this apply to them? If someone that doesn't have a team say that the Dolphins don't seem that great to them, does their opinion also not hold water and/or amusing?



Honestly, if this is what you're getting at, then you've completely missed my point. I don't have any pretense over any fanbase holding more weight. I do know a lot more about what a bad team looks like than the average poster on this site. It has a lot to do with the fanbase I belong to. That much is absolutely true.

And also, don't think it's rare for any fanbase to come after you for your "alliegance" on this site. I made a comment last year about how the Packers' defense was overrated, or a year before about how the Eagles were mediocre and both teams came at me for "being cocky over my teams new success", even though it had nothing to do with the post.

I still find it funny to say that people aren't sold over the dolphins at all.

I also heavily disagree with nitpicking a playoff game without tanehill, but hey, qb's being available in the playoffs don't matter right? Also, you can still take the dolphins seriously if they're contending for the playoffs every year. I didn't know it was a prerequisite to win playoff games for anyone to take you seriously.

Baltimore hasn't made the playoffs in 2 years. Do you take them seriously?

And i've never put heavy weight into DVOA statistics. Their writers push it down people's throats like we should bow down to it, but I'd rather put more stock in watching teams and wins than DVOA.
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Carr is 22-25,no playoff games, I'd take Flacco over him.To me it seems like Flacco is just where he belongs. Behind the Brady, Roethlisberger,Rivers,Rodgers,Wilson and ahead of Carr,Tannehill,Cousins,Palmer,Dalton,Luck
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PapaShogun


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 15, 2017 9:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

MrOaktown_56 wrote:
PapaShogun wrote:
MrOaktown_56 wrote:
"aren't convinced"? You said "no one is taking them seriously". Which is disrespectful. And with no analysis whatsoever beyond saying they haven't made any deep runs in the last 15 years. What does that have to do with next year? They just won 10 games. I'd say that's enough to "take them seriously".

I'm not saying you can't pass any judgment you want as a 49ers fan. You can pass any judgment I want. I just find it funny that you describe a 10 win team in that way, when you and I, being a fan of a team that has been mired in mediocrity, would recognize what a bad/mediocre team looks like. And the dolphins are not it.

I remember when the Raiders were 0-10 2 years back and that would be a team that no one takes seriously. Not a team vying for and earning a playoff spot.

Please tell me how a team with 3 talented WRs all 25 and under, a good qb about to hit his prime, a running back that led the league in broken tackles, and a defense featuring Ndamukong Suh and Reshad Jones, which wins 10 games with their starting qb out for 3 games is not to be taken seriously?

And in their offseason, they hit it out of the park for me, and added Julius Thomas, William Hayes, and Lawrence Timmons.

Adam gase is an excellent coach as well from everything I know/have seen about him.

I'll take any team like that seriously.


Yes the 49ers have been bad recently. They've also been good at various points in their franchise. So based on this logic you're trying to establish here, should I know what a quality team looks like since as a 49ers fan I've seen a lot of good teams in that franchise? This is another example of why you're rhetoric of "oh you're a fan of a team that sucks now, so your opinion on a team that is better than yours not impressing you is dumb" just doesn't make sense.


And what about NFL fans that have no allegiance to any specific team? How does this apply to them? If someone that doesn't have a team say that the Dolphins don't seem that great to them, does their opinion also not hold water and/or amusing?



Honestly, if this is what you're getting at, then you've completely missed my point. I don't have any pretense over any fanbase holding more weight. I do know a lot more about what a bad team looks like than the average poster on this site. It has a lot to do with the fanbase I belong to. That much is absolutely true.

And also, don't think it's rare for any fanbase to come after you for your "alliegance" on this site. I made a comment last year about how the Packers' defense was overrated, or a year before about how the Eagles were mediocre and both teams came at me for "being cocky over my teams new success", even though it had nothing to do with the post.

I still find it funny to say that people aren't sold over the dolphins at all.

I also heavily disagree with nitpicking a playoff game without tanehill, but hey, qb's being available in the playoffs don't matter right? Also, you can still take the dolphins seriously if they're contending for the playoffs every year. I didn't know it was a prerequisite to win playoff games for anyone to take you seriously.

Baltimore hasn't made the playoffs in 2 years. Do you take them seriously?

And i've never put heavy weight into DVOA statistics. Their writers push it down people's throats like we should bow down to it, but I'd rather put more stock in watching teams and wins than DVOA.


Buddy you randomly brought up the 49ers as if it had any relevance to my opinion on where I think the Dolphins stand as a franchise. You brought us to where we are now.

"And also, don't think it's rare for any fanbase to come after you for your "alliegance" on this site."

^ Okay? That doesn't negate the fact that it's stupid, especially when someone is talking about something completely different.

Tannehill got hurt. Tough. I mean was everything riding on this season alone for them to win a title or something? If they're a legitimate franchise now then they're not going to go another ten years before they make the playoffs. Baltimore hasn't made the playoffs in two years, but they haven't been the NFL's doormat the last 15 years either like the Dolphins largely have. Really, Baltimore has been the better franchise since they've existed as the Ravens.

As far as taking Baltimore seriously, I like their chances to rebound better than Miami's in the foreseeable future. I mean I didn't write the Steelers off as a franchise after they missed the playoffs in 2012 and 2013.

Quote:
I still find it funny to say that people aren't sold over the dolphins at all.


You keep saying this as if I should care.
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cddolphin


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 15, 2017 10:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

PapaShogun wrote:
but they haven't been the NFL's doormat the last 15 years either like the Dolphins largely have


They've won less than 7 games 4 times since 2000.. a yearly average of 7.7 wins.. let's not act like we're the Browns or anything Smile
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 15, 2017 10:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Third Rider wrote:
I guess that week 5 game is going to be hyped around here. Lol


It'll probably end in a Carr last minute GW drive like the last two have.
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 15, 2017 11:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

cddolphin wrote:
PapaShogun wrote:
but they haven't been the NFL's doormat the last 15 years either like the Dolphins largely have


They've won less than 7 games 4 times since 2000.. a yearly average of 7.7 wins.. let's not act like we're the Browns or anything Smile
Fair enough, but I guess it depends where you set the bar.
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