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AkronsWitness


Joined: 17 Jul 2015
Posts: 1662
PostPosted: Fri Jun 02, 2017 9:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I cannot remember the last time Campbell made a play besides tackling a guy once hes already made a 10 yard catch.

Reynolds while showing up for a play every other game, is the definition of JAG. Plus we have nothing invested in him and Campbell is a Farmer holdover.

This regime has nothing invested in those two and wouldnt surprise me in the slightest if they are both gone.
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bruceb


Joined: 15 Dec 2006
Posts: 7631
Location: Rocky River, OH
PostPosted: Fri Jun 02, 2017 10:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

AkronsWitness wrote:
I cannot remember the last time Campbell made a play besides tackling a guy once hes already made a 10 yard catch.

Reynolds while showing up for a play every other game, is the definition of JAG. Plus we have nothing invested in him and Campbell is a Farmer holdover.

This regime has nothing invested in those two and wouldnt surprise me in the slightest if they are both gone.


Agree. No reason to keep either of them.
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buno67


Joined: 15 Mar 2007
Posts: 40997
PostPosted: Sat Jun 03, 2017 9:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hard for me to write anyone off, specially with the schemes the player had to play in the past couple years.

I really like the staff they put together and everyone deserves to have a chance in camp to see if the coaches can actually work and develop some of these guys
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DizzyDean


Joined: 09 Mar 2017
Posts: 995
PostPosted: Sat Jun 03, 2017 12:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

buno67 wrote:
Hard for me to write anyone off, specially with the schemes the player had to play in the past couple years.

I really like the staff they put together and everyone deserves to have a chance in camp to see if the coaches can actually work and develop some of these guys


That is a complete 360 regarding your attitude when it comes to a certain QB that has been a "pleasant surprise".
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buno67


Joined: 15 Mar 2007
Posts: 40997
PostPosted: Sat Jun 03, 2017 1:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

DizzyDean wrote:
buno67 wrote:
Hard for me to write anyone off, specially with the schemes the player had to play in the past couple years.

I really like the staff they put together and everyone deserves to have a chance in camp to see if the coaches can actually work and develop some of these guys


That is a complete 360 regarding your attitude when it comes to a certain QB that has been a "pleasant surprise".


oh wow Brock looked good with shorts and a tshirt...can you please recite the numbers brock put up when he was pressured? because they are pretty laughable.

Im so glad you are willing to respond to this comment but not my comment about how Brock only completed 60% of his passes when his avg pass attempt was around 5.8 yards. Dude threw nothing but dinks and dunks and still couldnt complete those at a high rate...but let me guess that is on his teammates, not him. Cant blame him for throwing dink and dunks because Osweiler posted the worst accuracy percentage for passes of both 16+ air yards and 20+ air yards. He was such a bad QB, he made Hopkins an irrelevant WR. Weeden was bad but wasnt that bad to completely ruined a WR.

2016 season
Brock Accuracy Percentage On 16+ Throws: 27.6% (31st)
Brock Accuracy Percentage on 20+ Throws: 25.8% (31st)

Just so you cant blame it purely on Houston

2015 season
Brock Osweiler is 21 of 49 (42.8%) on his passes targeted beyond 9 yards down field.

We are talking about defensive safeties that played under the worse Defensive with Petine and a clueless scheme with Horton. Even when Brock was with Denver he never truly looked great.

I also said Brock shouldnt be given a chance, I said he should but I dont believe he will do anything with it because he is pretty bad. There is plenty of tape. Yeah he had issues with BOB and his schemes but he had a lot of issues that carried over from Denver and just got magnified because he went from being a spot starter to a franchise QB and it exposed him. Biggest thing Hue needs from a QB in his offense is a QB who can complete the deep ball. I am pretty sure Brock has been one of the worst QBs in the league when it comes to completing deep passes.

I am more willing to give guys a shot who have only bee in the league for 1-3 years, not so much on guys in the 6th year and has previously sucked extremely bad.

If you want to compare Brock in bad schemes compared to Campbell/Reynolds being in a bad scheme, Brock completely out sucked them more!!!
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buno67


Joined: 15 Mar 2007
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 03, 2017 1:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

DizzyDean wrote:
buno67 wrote:
Hard for me to write anyone off, specially with the schemes the player had to play in the past couple years.

I really like the staff they put together and everyone deserves to have a chance in camp to see if the coaches can actually work and develop some of these guys


That is a complete 360 regarding your attitude when it comes to a certain QB that has been a "pleasant surprise".


Also shouldnt it be 180, cause you are trying to say I completely changed my attitude/view. If I did a 360, I would still be in the same spot I started...
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DizzyDean


Joined: 09 Mar 2017
Posts: 995
PostPosted: Sat Jun 03, 2017 2:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

buno67 wrote:
DizzyDean wrote:
buno67 wrote:
Hard for me to write anyone off, specially with the schemes the player had to play in the past couple years.

I really like the staff they put together and everyone deserves to have a chance in camp to see if the coaches can actually work and develop some of these guys


That is a complete 360 regarding your attitude when it comes to a certain QB that has been a "pleasant surprise".


Also shouldnt it be 180, cause you are trying to say I completely changed my attitude/view. If I did a 360, I would still be in the same spot I started...


actually it should be 180, you are right there. The comment served its purpose though in exposing the hypocrisy which in turn obviously touched a sensitive nerve. Laughing
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buno67


Joined: 15 Mar 2007
Posts: 40997
PostPosted: Sat Jun 03, 2017 8:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

DizzyDean wrote:
buno67 wrote:
DizzyDean wrote:
buno67 wrote:
Hard for me to write anyone off, specially with the schemes the player had to play in the past couple years.

I really like the staff they put together and everyone deserves to have a chance in camp to see if the coaches can actually work and develop some of these guys


That is a complete 360 regarding your attitude when it comes to a certain QB that has been a "pleasant surprise".


Also shouldnt it be 180, cause you are trying to say I completely changed my attitude/view. If I did a 360, I would still be in the same spot I started...


actually it should be 180, you are right there. The comment served its purpose though in exposing the hypocrisy which in turn obviously touched a sensitive nerve. Laughing


It's not hypocrisy because Brock has proven he is pretty much garbage. Campbell and Reynolds are on the edge of being considered garbage. It's like they are borderline Brock. This season will prove if they are legit or if they Brock bad
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NudeTayne


Joined: 12 Apr 2016
Posts: 429
PostPosted: Sat Jun 03, 2017 8:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

buno67 wrote:
DizzyDean wrote:
buno67 wrote:
DizzyDean wrote:
buno67 wrote:
Hard for me to write anyone off, specially with the schemes the player had to play in the past couple years.

I really like the staff they put together and everyone deserves to have a chance in camp to see if the coaches can actually work and develop some of these guys


That is a complete 360 regarding your attitude when it comes to a certain QB that has been a "pleasant surprise".


Also shouldnt it be 180, cause you are trying to say I completely changed my attitude/view. If I did a 360, I would still be in the same spot I started...


actually it should be 180, you are right there. The comment served its purpose though in exposing the hypocrisy which in turn obviously touched a sensitive nerve. Laughing


It's not hypocrisy because Brock has proven he is pretty much garbage. Campbell and Reynolds are on the edge of being considered garbage. It's like they are borderline Brock. This season will prove if they are legit or if they Brock bad


Interesting...this is a total 360 from your previous view on Brock. I have to ask, what stayed the same about Brock's 2016 stats for you to still feel the same way about him? I guess at least you were consistent and didn't pull a total 720.
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Kiwibrown


Joined: 01 May 2006
Posts: 3355
Location: NZ
PostPosted: Sat Jun 03, 2017 8:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

AkronsWitness wrote:
I cannot remember the last time Campbell made a play besides tackling a guy once hes already made a 10 yard catch.

Reynolds while showing up for a play every other game, is the definition of JAG. Plus we have nothing invested in him and Campbell is a Farmer holdover.

This regime has nothing invested in those two and wouldnt surprise me in the slightest if they are both gone.


Reynolds organised our back veils well and didn't let people get passed him physically average or below average but mentally very good. He can tackle well and hard.

But I'm not to keen on the guy I'd keep for 1st down keep things organised on 1st down and for running downs.
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DizzyDean


Joined: 09 Mar 2017
Posts: 995
PostPosted: Sat Jun 03, 2017 9:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

buno67 wrote:
DizzyDean wrote:
buno67 wrote:
DizzyDean wrote:
buno67 wrote:
Hard for me to write anyone off, specially with the schemes the player had to play in the past couple years.

I really like the staff they put together and everyone deserves to have a chance in camp to see if the coaches can actually work and develop some of these guys


That is a complete 360 regarding your attitude when it comes to a certain QB that has been a "pleasant surprise".


Also shouldnt it be 180, cause you are trying to say I completely changed my attitude/view. If I did a 360, I would still be in the same spot I started...


actually it should be 180, you are right there. The comment served its purpose though in exposing the hypocrisy which in turn obviously touched a sensitive nerve. Laughing


It's not hypocrisy because Brock has proven he is pretty much garbage. Campbell and Reynolds are on the edge of being considered garbage. It's like they are borderline Brock. This season will prove if they are legit or if they Brock bad


Except you gave them a pass for playing terrible on a terrible defensive unit, even though they have literally shown nothing prior, or even much in college.

Yet no pass for Brock for playing much better than the stat line showed on a terrible offensive unit after showing promise at the NFL level in prior years.
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buno67


Joined: 15 Mar 2007
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 04, 2017 12:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

DizzyDean wrote:
buno67 wrote:
DizzyDean wrote:
buno67 wrote:
DizzyDean wrote:
buno67 wrote:
Hard for me to write anyone off, specially with the schemes the player had to play in the past couple years.

I really like the staff they put together and everyone deserves to have a chance in camp to see if the coaches can actually work and develop some of these guys


That is a complete 360 regarding your attitude when it comes to a certain QB that has been a "pleasant surprise".


Also shouldnt it be 180, cause you are trying to say I completely changed my attitude/view. If I did a 360, I would still be in the same spot I started...


actually it should be 180, you are right there. The comment served its purpose though in exposing the hypocrisy which in turn obviously touched a sensitive nerve. Laughing


It's not hypocrisy because Brock has proven he is pretty much garbage. Campbell and Reynolds are on the edge of being considered garbage. It's like they are borderline Brock. This season will prove if they are legit or if they Brock bad


Except you gave them a pass for playing terrible on a terrible defensive unit, even though they have literally shown nothing prior, or even much in college.

Yet no pass for Brock for playing much better than the stat line showed on a terrible offensive unit after showing promise at the NFL level in prior years.


Showing promise in Denver? If he was that promising Denver would of kept him. (please cut the crap argument of "Denver wanted to keep key defensive players who were FAs". Denver was not as risk of losing one of their top tier defensive. Also Franchise QB trumps any other position)
Wasnt hard for him to not screw up when he had no pressure in being a game manager. Dude couldnt hit the deep ball to save his life. Dead last in accuracy when throwing the ball over 20yard while in Denver. It then got even worse when he got to Houston even tho he had one of the best WRs in the league to throw too. Dude should of looked better after sitting for so many years. He then looks even worse in Houston. BOB isnt the greatest coach but when other QBs like Hoyer, Fitz, and etc played and played better, its more so the player than the coaching.

Lets not forget that when he is pressured as a QB, his rating falls to around 20 something and his completion% is around 40%. When he was in Denver his rating was 66 and a completion % of around 52%.

So Brock has shown in 23 starts as a QB he literally cant throw the deep ball and cant handle pressure.

Heck Kessler last year was a 92 rating and completed 65% but when he was pressured, his rating was adjusted to 91 and his completion % was 84%.

like I said before. When it came to passes 16 yards or more, Brock was ranked 31st in accuracy Percentage. When it came to passes 20 yards or more, Brock was ranked 31st in accuracy Percentage. Kessler on the other hand, When it came to passes 16 yards or more, Kessler was ranked 18th in accuracy Percentage. When it came to passes 20 yards or more, Kessler was ranked 23rd in accuracy Percentage.

I might be more forgiving to giving Campbell/Reynolds a shot because really outside of Peppers, every other safety is an unknown. At the QB position, Kessler is a better QB and that Kizer has more potential.

Im all for Brock get a shot to prove himself but he wont out play Kessler and he might be over taken by Kizer in the preseason.


Please, please give me something of value or substance to show he has some potential to be a legit starting QB or franchise QB. The arguement of blaming it on his teammate or coaching isnt going to cut. Brock cant throw the deep ball and cant handle pressure of a rush. There is noting in Brocks game that makes up for those two major flaws. He showed both those flaws in Denver and in Houston. Wasnt as bad in Denver cause they could hide him more. Couldnt do that in Houston
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DizzyDean


Joined: 09 Mar 2017
Posts: 995
PostPosted: Sun Jun 04, 2017 2:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

buno67 wrote:
DizzyDean wrote:
buno67 wrote:
DizzyDean wrote:
buno67 wrote:
DizzyDean wrote:
buno67 wrote:
Hard for me to write anyone off, specially with the schemes the player had to play in the past couple years.

I really like the staff they put together and everyone deserves to have a chance in camp to see if the coaches can actually work and develop some of these guys


That is a complete 360 regarding your attitude when it comes to a certain QB that has been a "pleasant surprise".


Also shouldnt it be 180, cause you are trying to say I completely changed my attitude/view. If I did a 360, I would still be in the same spot I started...


actually it should be 180, you are right there. The comment served its purpose though in exposing the hypocrisy which in turn obviously touched a sensitive nerve. Laughing


It's not hypocrisy because Brock has proven he is pretty much garbage. Campbell and Reynolds are on the edge of being considered garbage. It's like they are borderline Brock. This season will prove if they are legit or if they Brock bad


Except you gave them a pass for playing terrible on a terrible defensive unit, even though they have literally shown nothing prior, or even much in college.

Yet no pass for Brock for playing much better than the stat line showed on a terrible offensive unit after showing promise at the NFL level in prior years.


Showing promise in Denver? If he was that promising Denver would of kept him. (please cut the crap argument of "Denver wanted to keep key defensive players who were FAs". Denver was not as risk of losing one of their top tier defensive. Also Franchise QB trumps any other position)
Wasnt hard for him to not screw up when he had no pressure in being a game manager. Dude couldnt hit the deep ball to save his life. Dead last in accuracy when throwing the ball over 20yard while in Denver. It then got even worse when he got to Houston even tho he had one of the best WRs in the league to throw too. Dude should of looked better after sitting for so many years. He then looks even worse in Houston. BOB isnt the greatest coach but when other QBs like Hoyer, Fitz, and etc played and played better, its more so the player than the coaching.

Lets not forget that when he is pressured as a QB, his rating falls to around 20 something and his completion% is around 40%. When he was in Denver his rating was 66 and a completion % of around 52%.

So Brock has shown in 23 starts as a QB he literally cant throw the deep ball and cant handle pressure.

Heck Kessler last year was a 92 rating and completed 65% but when he was pressured, his rating was adjusted to 91 and his completion % was 84%.

like I said before. When it came to passes 16 yards or more, Brock was ranked 31st in accuracy Percentage. When it came to passes 20 yards or more, Brock was ranked 31st in accuracy Percentage. Kessler on the other hand, When it came to passes 16 yards or more, Kessler was ranked 18th in accuracy Percentage. When it came to passes 20 yards or more, Kessler was ranked 23rd in accuracy Percentage.

I might be more forgiving to giving Campbell/Reynolds a shot because really outside of Peppers, every other safety is an unknown. At the QB position, Kessler is a better QB and that Kizer has more potential.

Im all for Brock get a shot to prove himself but he wont out play Kessler and he might be over taken by Kizer in the preseason.


Please, please give me something of value or substance to show he has some potential to be a legit starting QB or franchise QB. The arguement of blaming it on his teammate or coaching isnt going to cut. Brock cant throw the deep ball and cant handle pressure of a rush. There is noting in Brocks game that makes up for those two major flaws. He showed both those flaws in Denver and in Houston. Wasnt as bad in Denver cause they could hide him more. Couldnt do that in Houston


ok gonna be honest here. I stopped reading the novel when you said cut the crap about Denver wanting to keep him... when there are several sources out there from Elway himself speaking on the topic. I said it before, I will say it one more time, just for you... don't take my word for it, take the Broncos word for it.

Regarding the rest... I would reply point for point had I bothered to read it, but ya know... Time value and all of that.
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buno67


Joined: 15 Mar 2007
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 04, 2017 7:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

DizzyDean wrote:
buno67 wrote:
DizzyDean wrote:
buno67 wrote:
DizzyDean wrote:
buno67 wrote:
DizzyDean wrote:
buno67 wrote:
Hard for me to write anyone off, specially with the schemes the player had to play in the past couple years.

I really like the staff they put together and everyone deserves to have a chance in camp to see if the coaches can actually work and develop some of these guys


That is a complete 360 regarding your attitude when it comes to a certain QB that has been a "pleasant surprise".


Also shouldnt it be 180, cause you are trying to say I completely changed my attitude/view. If I did a 360, I would still be in the same spot I started...


actually it should be 180, you are right there. The comment served its purpose though in exposing the hypocrisy which in turn obviously touched a sensitive nerve. Laughing


It's not hypocrisy because Brock has proven he is pretty much garbage. Campbell and Reynolds are on the edge of being considered garbage. It's like they are borderline Brock. This season will prove if they are legit or if they Brock bad


Except you gave them a pass for playing terrible on a terrible defensive unit, even though they have literally shown nothing prior, or even much in college.

Yet no pass for Brock for playing much better than the stat line showed on a terrible offensive unit after showing promise at the NFL level in prior years.


Showing promise in Denver? If he was that promising Denver would of kept him. (please cut the crap argument of "Denver wanted to keep key defensive players who were FAs". Denver was not as risk of losing one of their top tier defensive. Also Franchise QB trumps any other position)
Wasnt hard for him to not screw up when he had no pressure in being a game manager. Dude couldnt hit the deep ball to save his life. Dead last in accuracy when throwing the ball over 20yard while in Denver. It then got even worse when he got to Houston even tho he had one of the best WRs in the league to throw too. Dude should of looked better after sitting for so many years. He then looks even worse in Houston. BOB isnt the greatest coach but when other QBs like Hoyer, Fitz, and etc played and played better, its more so the player than the coaching.

Lets not forget that when he is pressured as a QB, his rating falls to around 20 something and his completion% is around 40%. When he was in Denver his rating was 66 and a completion % of around 52%.

So Brock has shown in 23 starts as a QB he literally cant throw the deep ball and cant handle pressure.

Heck Kessler last year was a 92 rating and completed 65% but when he was pressured, his rating was adjusted to 91 and his completion % was 84%.

like I said before. When it came to passes 16 yards or more, Brock was ranked 31st in accuracy Percentage. When it came to passes 20 yards or more, Brock was ranked 31st in accuracy Percentage. Kessler on the other hand, When it came to passes 16 yards or more, Kessler was ranked 18th in accuracy Percentage. When it came to passes 20 yards or more, Kessler was ranked 23rd in accuracy Percentage.

I might be more forgiving to giving Campbell/Reynolds a shot because really outside of Peppers, every other safety is an unknown. At the QB position, Kessler is a better QB and that Kizer has more potential.

Im all for Brock get a shot to prove himself but he wont out play Kessler and he might be over taken by Kizer in the preseason.


Please, please give me something of value or substance to show he has some potential to be a legit starting QB or franchise QB. The arguement of blaming it on his teammate or coaching isnt going to cut. Brock cant throw the deep ball and cant handle pressure of a rush. There is noting in Brocks game that makes up for those two major flaws. He showed both those flaws in Denver and in Houston. Wasnt as bad in Denver cause they could hide him more. Couldnt do that in Houston


ok gonna be honest here. I stopped reading the novel when you said cut the crap about Denver wanting to keep him... when there are several sources out there from Elway himself speaking on the topic. I said it before, I will say it one more time, just for you... don't take my word for it, take the Broncos word for it.

Regarding the rest... I would reply point for point had I bothered to read it, but ya know... Time value and all of that.


I know why Denver let him walk because he wasn't franchises QB material. Only time a QB leaves a team is if they aren't franchise mateierl or they have a better back up.


Rest of your post translates to..."I have no come back."
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bruceb


Joined: 15 Dec 2006
Posts: 7631
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 04, 2017 12:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So, what does everyone else think about the trade?
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