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In the 2017 NFL season which QB will...
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Which QB will give use the most wins if they start all games?
Kessler
64%
 64%  [ 16 ]
Brock
8%
 8%  [ 2 ]
Kizer
24%
 24%  [ 6 ]
Hogan
0%
 0%  [ 0 ]
Other, and whom?
4%
 4%  [ 1 ]
Total Votes : 25

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DizzyDean


Joined: 09 Mar 2017
Posts: 995
PostPosted: Mon May 29, 2017 4:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

brooks1957 wrote:
With getting the tar beat out of him physically - not one but two in season concussions - Kessler still posted a 92.3 QBR, That was also behind a horrible offensive line, a suspect running game, and one legitimate receiving threat.

FF to 2017 - the draft and free agency have brought welcome additions that also will benefit Kessler greatly. I have a growing sense of confidence that Kessler could be more than the best option for 2017 but more years down the road. The QB situation entering the 2016 season was a cluster you know what. Maybe it is not a strength of the team yet, but it is certainly more sttled this season.

That being said - with the draft capital the Browns possess, if they have the opportunity to snag a prized prospect in the QB rich 2018 Draft - no one on the current roster should cause them concern for not pursuing that.


The thing about this, Kessler put up this rating while pretty much scared to death to go downfield. It was all the short game.

This year, with the improved offensive line, a more experienced WR core, and his added arm strength, he should not be hesitant to go downfield much more. Those more high risk throws should offset the improvements around him when it comes to QB rating. That said, if he puts up a similar QB rating, while taking shots down field, that will be a very nice improvement.
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Thomas5737


Joined: 23 Dec 2009
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PostPosted: Mon May 29, 2017 4:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

DizzyDean wrote:
ditchdigger wrote:
I voted Kizer.

He's the only QB with the talent to run Hue's offense the way it was intended.


I could not disagree more currently. Kizer is not equipped at all to run Hue's offense as intended currently. Hue's offense is all about accuracy and decision making.

Kizer has that deer in the headlights look when discussing the playbook right now. He is no where near there in decision making and knowing the system. Also his accuracy needs a lot of improvement from what I have seen.


Accuracy is important for every system. Decision making is important for every system.

Some systems use more of a downfield passing game and that is how Kizer fits in. If he is bad at decision making and accuracy there isn't a system for him. Same with Brock. Kessler has already shown those are his strong suits but he is lacking in the ability to go downfield. Still, if Kizer and Osweiler aren't accurate or good decision makers you put in the guy that is even if he can't make every throw, a limited good QB is always better than a bad QB who physically can make all of the throws but not consistently.
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brownie man


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PostPosted: Mon May 29, 2017 4:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dude Dizzy you a hater

This offense is not that complex it's not rocket science man

If TCU alum Andy Dalton can run it I'm pretty confident Kizer will be fine

Not dissing TCU but they're offense was gimmicky Kizers at ND actually had a ton of pro concepts the learning curve will be slight and Kizer has all the tools.

The funny this is Kizers skill set is actually an awesome fit.

He had arguably the best deep ball in the class between him and Mahomes.

He can run the read option which Dalton ran a ton, and statically he was the best play action QB in the draft.

You just don't have any idea what your talking about
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DizzyDean wrote:

I never even predicted Kizer to fail, I simply said he was an over drafted project. Now tell me that I am wrong in that regard.


^^^^
This dude is gonna look real bad
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DizzyDean


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PostPosted: Mon May 29, 2017 5:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thomas5737 wrote:
DizzyDean wrote:
ditchdigger wrote:
I voted Kizer.

He's the only QB with the talent to run Hue's offense the way it was intended.


I could not disagree more currently. Kizer is not equipped at all to run Hue's offense as intended currently. Hue's offense is all about accuracy and decision making.

Kizer has that deer in the headlights look when discussing the playbook right now. He is no where near there in decision making and knowing the system. Also his accuracy needs a lot of improvement from what I have seen.


Accuracy is important for every system. Decision making is important for every system.

Some systems use more of a downfield passing game and that is how Kizer fits in. If he is bad at decision making and accuracy there isn't a system for him. Same with Brock. Kessler has already shown those are his strong suits but he is lacking in the ability to go downfield. Still, if Kizer and Osweiler aren't accurate or good decision makers you put in the guy that is even if he can't make every throw, a limited good QB is always better than a bad QB who physically can make all of the throws but not consistently.


This is why Kizer needs to redshirt. Regarding Brock, his accuracy is above average. The 2016 stat line doesn't indicate it (balls routinely bounding off of numbers and hands, balls sailing over a WRs head that is literally jogging and not running his route to fall incomplete).

Brock's decision making also looked good prior to last year. The new system, and inept coaches trying to install a new QB into said system without the ability to teach it contributed to that decision making.

Regardless, I think we can all agree that Hogan is just a guy, a camp arm practice squad guy.

All 3 of the other guys have question marks, its up to Hue and company to answer most of those questions and find the right guy.
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Thomas5737


Joined: 23 Dec 2009
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PostPosted: Mon May 29, 2017 5:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

DizzyDean wrote:
Thomas5737 wrote:
DizzyDean wrote:
ditchdigger wrote:
I voted Kizer.

He's the only QB with the talent to run Hue's offense the way it was intended.


I could not disagree more currently. Kizer is not equipped at all to run Hue's offense as intended currently. Hue's offense is all about accuracy and decision making.

Kizer has that deer in the headlights look when discussing the playbook right now. He is no where near there in decision making and knowing the system. Also his accuracy needs a lot of improvement from what I have seen.


Accuracy is important for every system. Decision making is important for every system.

Some systems use more of a downfield passing game and that is how Kizer fits in. If he is bad at decision making and accuracy there isn't a system for him. Same with Brock. Kessler has already shown those are his strong suits but he is lacking in the ability to go downfield. Still, if Kizer and Osweiler aren't accurate or good decision makers you put in the guy that is even if he can't make every throw, a limited good QB is always better than a bad QB who physically can make all of the throws but not consistently.


This is why Kizer needs to redshirt. Regarding Brock, his accuracy is above average. The 2016 stat line doesn't indicate it (balls routinely bounding off of numbers and hands, balls sailing over a WRs head that is literally jogging and not running his route to fall incomplete).

Brock's decision making also looked good prior to last year. The new system, and inept coaches trying to install a new QB into said system without the ability to teach it contributed to that decision making.

Regardless, I think we can all agree that Hogan is just a guy, a camp arm practice squad guy.

All 3 of the other guys have question marks, its up to Hue and company to answer most of those questions and find the right guy.


Brock has been the least accurate passer throwing downfield the past two season (not talking completion percentage, just in catchable balls) so I'm not going to put the lions share of the blame on the Broncos and Texan WR for that. Brock has to get a heck of a lot better before he can be trusted with those throws and he isn't good enough with the short yardage throws to make up for it.

Or as Brock said it last year " I just think I need to make better decisions and throw more accurate footballs."
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DizzyDean


Joined: 09 Mar 2017
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PostPosted: Mon May 29, 2017 8:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

brownie man wrote:
Dude Dizzy you a hater

This offense is not that complex it's not rocket science man

If TCU alum Andy Dalton can run it I'm pretty confident Kizer will be fine

Not dissing TCU but they're offense was gimmicky Kizers at ND actually had a ton of pro concepts the learning curve will be slight and Kizer has all the tools.

The funny this is Kizers skill set is actually an awesome fit.

He had arguably the best deep ball in the class between him and Mahomes.

He can run the read option which Dalton ran a ton, and statically he was the best play action QB in the draft.

You just don't have any idea what your talking about


I agree that the offense is not very complex, which is even more concerning that he has that deer in the headlights look to him when it comes to the offense and playbook.

By the way, this is also a very good point as to why Osweiler should look profoundly better this year than last in Hue's system.... and he has pretty much all of the physical tools that Kizer has, with better accuracy.
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DizzyDean


Joined: 09 Mar 2017
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PostPosted: Mon May 29, 2017 8:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thomas5737 wrote:
DizzyDean wrote:
Thomas5737 wrote:
DizzyDean wrote:
ditchdigger wrote:
I voted Kizer.

He's the only QB with the talent to run Hue's offense the way it was intended.


I could not disagree more currently. Kizer is not equipped at all to run Hue's offense as intended currently. Hue's offense is all about accuracy and decision making.

Kizer has that deer in the headlights look when discussing the playbook right now. He is no where near there in decision making and knowing the system. Also his accuracy needs a lot of improvement from what I have seen.


Accuracy is important for every system. Decision making is important for every system.

Some systems use more of a downfield passing game and that is how Kizer fits in. If he is bad at decision making and accuracy there isn't a system for him. Same with Brock. Kessler has already shown those are his strong suits but he is lacking in the ability to go downfield. Still, if Kizer and Osweiler aren't accurate or good decision makers you put in the guy that is even if he can't make every throw, a limited good QB is always better than a bad QB who physically can make all of the throws but not consistently.


This is why Kizer needs to redshirt. Regarding Brock, his accuracy is above average. The 2016 stat line doesn't indicate it (balls routinely bounding off of numbers and hands, balls sailing over a WRs head that is literally jogging and not running his route to fall incomplete).

Brock's decision making also looked good prior to last year. The new system, and inept coaches trying to install a new QB into said system without the ability to teach it contributed to that decision making.

Regardless, I think we can all agree that Hogan is just a guy, a camp arm practice squad guy.

All 3 of the other guys have question marks, its up to Hue and company to answer most of those questions and find the right guy.


Or as Brock said it last year " I just think I need to make better decisions and throw more accurate footballs."


How trashy of him to take responsibility upon himself for the issues and not throw the team under the bus! How dare he!
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buno67


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PostPosted: Mon May 29, 2017 10:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

DizzyDean wrote:
Regarding Brock, his accuracy is above average. The 2016 stat line doesn't indicate it (balls routinely bounding off of numbers and hands, balls sailing over a WRs head that is literally jogging and not running his route to fall incomplete)


how can you say his inaccuracy is on the WRs? Dude is pretty much a career 60% type passes. He was like that in college and his career in the NFL has been the same. Must suck for Brock that every where he has played the WRs never once helped him out.
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Iamcanadian


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PostPosted: Mon May 29, 2017 10:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

buno67 wrote:
Thomas5737 wrote:
I went Kessler. I think he is the most stable of the quarterbacks and if he can get just a little better than what he was last year that would be huge as he already looked to be of NFL starter quality.

The other two have better arm strength which many will say is upside but each of them have to first prove they can make the easy NFL throws that defenses give you at times. Accuracy is the #1 physical ability a successful QB needs. Kessler currently has a sizable lead there.


I agree, Accuracy was a huge strength of Kesslers last year but I want to see what his Accuracy would look like when he is asked to be more aggressive and asked to actually attack the field more


That's always the problem with career backups, they can look pretty good for a game or 2 before the NFL defenses catch up to them and they struggle mightily. I think that is all we can expect from any of them.
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DizzyDean


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PostPosted: Tue May 30, 2017 2:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

buno67 wrote:
DizzyDean wrote:
Regarding Brock, his accuracy is above average. The 2016 stat line doesn't indicate it (balls routinely bounding off of numbers and hands, balls sailing over a WRs head that is literally jogging and not running his route to fall incomplete)


how can you say his inaccuracy is on the WRs? Dude is pretty much a career 60% type passes. He was like that in college and his career in the NFL has been the same. Must suck for Brock that every where he has played the WRs never once helped him out.


Matt Ryan career passer rating 64.9
Big Ben 64.1%
Tom Brady 63.8%
Rodgers 65.1
Drew Brees 66.6
Philip Rivers 64.4
Eli Manning 59.7
Peyton 65.3

Just decided to check a few top names, the first ones that popped into my head. 70% career passers just are not a thing for NFL starters. Many of the above for a career mark are just above Brock. Many of them had considerably lower percentages early on in their career.
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Bonanza23


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PostPosted: Tue May 30, 2017 2:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I wouldn't be too surprised if Kizer were to start sooner rather than later. He's definitely the best physical specimen of the QBs. Hue has been working overtime with him. Working very closely. My guess is by week 5. Kessler will start.
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Thomas5737


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PostPosted: Tue May 30, 2017 3:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

DizzyDean wrote:
buno67 wrote:
DizzyDean wrote:
Regarding Brock, his accuracy is above average. The 2016 stat line doesn't indicate it (balls routinely bounding off of numbers and hands, balls sailing over a WRs head that is literally jogging and not running his route to fall incomplete)


how can you say his inaccuracy is on the WRs? Dude is pretty much a career 60% type passes. He was like that in college and his career in the NFL has been the same. Must suck for Brock that every where he has played the WRs never once helped him out.


Matt Ryan career passer rating 64.9
Big Ben 64.1%
Tom Brady 63.8%
Rodgers 65.1
Drew Brees 66.6
Philip Rivers 64.4
Eli Manning 59.7
Peyton 65.3

Just decided to check a few top names, the first ones that popped into my head. 70% career passers just are not a thing for NFL starters. Many of the above for a career mark are just above Brock. Many of them had considerably lower percentages early on in their career.


65% and 60% completion percentages are a huge difference. For the most part 60% is the low end of acceptable in a generic scheme 62/63% is good and 65% is very good. Comparing 60 to 65 is like comparing a quality backup to a pro-bowl player.

Only 9 teams had a completion percentage below 60 last year, they were a combined 49-97-1. 10 teams had a completion percentage of 65 or better, only one of them had a losing record (Saints at 7-9) and the majority were playoff teams.
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buno67


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PostPosted: Tue May 30, 2017 3:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

DizzyDean wrote:
buno67 wrote:
DizzyDean wrote:
Regarding Brock, his accuracy is above average. The 2016 stat line doesn't indicate it (balls routinely bounding off of numbers and hands, balls sailing over a WRs head that is literally jogging and not running his route to fall incomplete)


how can you say his inaccuracy is on the WRs? Dude is pretty much a career 60% type passes. He was like that in college and his career in the NFL has been the same. Must suck for Brock that every where he has played the WRs never once helped him out.


Matt Ryan career passer rating 64.9
Big Ben 64.1%
Tom Brady 63.8%
Rodgers 65.1
Drew Brees 66.6
Philip Rivers 64.4
Eli Manning 59.7
Peyton 65.3

Just decided to check a few top names, the first ones that popped into my head. 70% career passers just are not a thing for NFL starters. Many of the above for a career mark are just above Brock. Many of them had considerably lower percentages early on in their career.


yes 70% is not a thing for NFL starters. Also flirting with 60% isnt all that great either. Hell Brock was a 59% passer last year but that was only because his WRs were lazy right?

You also look at Brocks numbers, he is competing around 60% of his passes but his Yards per attempt was 5.8 last years, thats pretty awful. Throwing passes that short and only completing 60% isnt very good. Also mix in with his horrible deep ball accuracy.

for comparison with the QBs you mentioned above.

Matt Ryan 64.9 % -- Y/A 7.4
Big Ben 64.1% -- Y/A 7.9
Tom Brady 63.8% -- Y/A 7.5
Rodgers 65.1 -- Y/A 7.3
Drew Brees 66.6 -- Y/A 7.7
Philip Rivers 64.4 -- Y/A 7.7
Eli Manning 59.7 -- Y/A 7.1
Peyton 65.3 -- Y/A 7.9


Brock was dead last in the league for the QBs who qualified.

So basically Brock was completing the 4th worst % while basically throwing the shortest passing attempts.

Heck the year before Hoyer was at 7.0 and the year before that Fitzpatrick was 8.0. So it wasnt the offensive scheme in houston that forced Brock to throw so many short passes.
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dawgdish


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PostPosted: Tue May 30, 2017 3:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thomas5737 wrote:
bruceb wrote:
Er, "us" not "use"


Yeah that sounds like a Steeler fan is asking the question.


"yinz" not "us"
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Thomas5737


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PostPosted: Tue May 30, 2017 4:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

dawgdish wrote:
Thomas5737 wrote:
bruceb wrote:
Er, "us" not "use"


Yeah that sounds like a Steeler fan is asking the question.


"yinz" not "us"


Oh yeah, NY area does the "youse" I don't know why I associated with Pittsburgh.
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