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oaktownOG


Joined: 16 Mar 2006
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Location: Bay Area
PostPosted: Sat May 27, 2017 4:10 pm    Post subject: Backup QB Situation Reply with quote

How comfortable are we with Connor Cook and EJ Manuel, I mean, honestly?

I feel like this is a topic that gets grossly overlooked, partly because there's a general consensus that Carr is one of the best QB's in the league and we don't want to acknowledge the possibility he can get hurt again but also because of what happened in the game against the Texans. Cook essentially lost that game for Oakland single-handedly.

Cook has great size but hasn't really shown much of anything in terms of potential at the pro level.

Manuel has great athleticism but the decision making of a drunk college freshman that never drank in high school.

God forbid Carr gets hurt again this year but, if he does, who do you feel more comfortable with under center and why?

IMO, this is the one area of the team that wasn't addressed appropriately thus far this offseason.
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RaidersAreOne


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PostPosted: Sat May 27, 2017 4:24 pm    Post subject: Re: Backup QB Situation Reply with quote

oaktownOG wrote:
Cook has great size but hasn't really shown much of anything in terms of potential at the pro level.


Well, obviously. He was a rookie QB who got absolutely thrown to the wolves in both games he played (one being a damn playoff game on the road). Cook was a solid QB prospect coming out and I am comfortable rolling with just him if the staff is. He has a lot of potential.
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Silver&Black88


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PostPosted: Sat May 27, 2017 4:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I mean, I can't say I love it. I wouldn't have minded getting someone more capable but the staff seems to be betting on Cook for that job. Since they traded up for him, they clearly believed in his potential to some level. Bringing in EJ as competition is an alright idea to develop him imo. He can learn mentally and physically from competing with EJ. He should beat him out. If he doesn't....well, like I said, we're betting on him. Bad bet, I suppose. Or maybe, Manuel surpasses expectations.
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raiderrocker18


Joined: 09 Dec 2014
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PostPosted: Sat May 27, 2017 5:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

it really doesn't matter. the team goes downhill if carr goes. it's a question of performance in a spot start.

cook never had a fair shot last year... he wasn't even on the active roster, got virtually no reps all year, and then was thrust in a game at denver, and then got his first start in a playoff game on the road against what was the #1 defense in the league. i dont care who you are, you aren't succeeding in that spot as a rookie in 2 road games

with mcgloin out of the picture, he'll get plenty of reps both in camp and in the preseason... and whoever is the backup will be active on game day and be better prepared
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NightTrainLane


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PostPosted: Sat May 27, 2017 5:39 pm    Post subject: Re: Backup QB Situation Reply with quote

RaidersAreOne wrote:
oaktownOG wrote:
Cook has great size but hasn't really shown much of anything in terms of potential at the pro level.


Well, obviously. He was a rookie QB who got absolutely thrown to the wolves in both games he played (one being a damn playoff game on the road). Cook was a solid QB prospect coming out and I am comfortable rolling with just him if the staff is. He has a lot of potential.


Exactly. Do you remember Carr's rookie year. If he was put in those games as a rookie he would have been eaten alive. QBs have to develop.

In terms of having a quality backup tho, I see in Manuel a QB that wasn't developed right in Buffalo due to the system changes and injuries. I think he has tools that a good OC can work with.

Between the 2 guys, Cook and Manuel, I think the competition will be good for both of their progression, not to mention being around a group like ours.
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BayRaider


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PostPosted: Sat May 27, 2017 6:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The winner of the Cook/Manuel battle will be a good backup QB imo. And we'll have one of the best 3rd stringers in the league if we keep both.
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Mr Raider


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PostPosted: Sat May 27, 2017 7:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I mean honestly how many teams love their backup QB? It's such a hard position to find one quality player, so finding another is that much more difficult. And Carr is just so important to the team because he's that good and that valuable. So the idea of him going down is never going to sit well in terms of who comes in to replace him. However I'm not writing Cook off after 2 (not even full) bad games on the road against two of the top tier defenses, in playoff atmosphere games to boot (division was on the line against Denver). That's a spot very few guys would succeed in with not even any practice time for 90+ percent of the season. Manuel still has some taw toold so the staff said why not so we have some experience in the competition. I don't love what we have behind Carr but I struggle to think of many teams that love the situation behind their pro bowl QB..I'm interested to see how the competition plays out in camp and the preseason though.
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raidr4life


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PostPosted: Sat May 27, 2017 11:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That's why you draft a young guy who had 1st round talent and develop him, he will get lots of reps this season after getting hardly any last year. God forbid anything happens to Carr again, but with the OL and weapons we have the cupboard won't be bare if Cook has to step in.
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Blazer026


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PostPosted: Sun May 28, 2017 12:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I didn't like Cook as a prospect, and don't have much faith in Manuel.

Hopefully neither of them have to play anyway.
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G


Joined: 02 Feb 2007
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PostPosted: Sun May 28, 2017 12:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

We needed to keep it cheap so EJ and Cook it is...
Hopefully Cook develops into trade bait but who knows...
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Darbsk


Joined: 21 Oct 2008
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 15, 2017 11:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mr Raider wrote:
I mean honestly how many teams love their backup QB? It's such a hard position to find one quality player, so finding another is that much more difficult. And Carr is just so important to the team because he's that good and that valuable. So the idea of him going down is never going to sit well in terms of who comes in to replace him. However I'm not writing Cook off after 2 (not even full) bad games on the road against two of the top tier defenses, in playoff atmosphere games to boot (division was on the line against Denver). That's a spot very few guys would succeed in with not even any practice time for 90+ percent of the season. Manuel still has some taw toold so the staff said why not so we have some experience in the competition. I don't love what we have behind Carr but I struggle to think of many teams that love the situation behind their pro bowl QB..I'm interested to see how the competition plays out in camp and the preseason though.


Interesting to note in Minicamp that Manuel actually doesn't sound too bad and has jumped to #2 CB and thrown some pretty passes apparently. Now, this doesn't mean a lot really as Cook could have just had a bad few practices and Manuel a few bright ones but in reality I think what we're after (as Mr Raider alluded to above) is that should Carr get injured, we need a guy who can come in for a game or two and just be average and not lose us the game, I think both these guys can potentially do that for us this season and even though I was never a fan of Cook, it's difficult to judge him off such trying circumstances.

However, if Carr suffers a serious injury and either of these guys start for a prolonged period of time then I feel we are like almost every other team pretty much out of contention. Very, very few teams can play a large part of the season with a backup QB and get anywhere. Maybe if our OL and running game flourishes and the pass rush can spring to life we can replicate what Dallas did should the worst happen.
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raidr4life


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 15, 2017 1:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Darbsk wrote:
Mr Raider wrote:
I mean honestly how many teams love their backup QB? It's such a hard position to find one quality player, so finding another is that much more difficult. And Carr is just so important to the team because he's that good and that valuable. So the idea of him going down is never going to sit well in terms of who comes in to replace him. However I'm not writing Cook off after 2 (not even full) bad games on the road against two of the top tier defenses, in playoff atmosphere games to boot (division was on the line against Denver). That's a spot very few guys would succeed in with not even any practice time for 90+ percent of the season. Manuel still has some taw toold so the staff said why not so we have some experience in the competition. I don't love what we have behind Carr but I struggle to think of many teams that love the situation behind their pro bowl QB..I'm interested to see how the competition plays out in camp and the preseason though.


Interesting to note in Minicamp that Manuel actually doesn't sound too bad and has jumped to #2 CB and thrown some pretty passes apparently. Now, this doesn't mean a lot really as Cook could have just had a bad few practices and Manuel a few bright ones but in reality I think what we're after (as Mr Raider alluded to above) is that should Carr get injured, we need a guy who can come in for a game or two and just be average and not lose us the game, I think both these guys can potentially do that for us this season and even though I was never a fan of Cook, it's difficult to judge him off such trying circumstances.

However, if Carr suffers a serious injury and either of these guys start for a prolonged period of time then I feel we are like almost every other team pretty much out of contention. Very, very few teams can play a large part of the season with a backup QB and get anywhere. Maybe if our OL and running game flourishes and the pass rush can spring to life we can replicate what Dallas did should the worst happen.
Manuel didn't actually jump Cook the staff just decided to change things up. Cook looked good with the #2's the day before and Manuel not so much with the 3's. Manuel had a good day yesterday and Cook had an off day with the 3's. Long way to go before that battle is decided. But it seems like they both were better with the 2's.
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Nightmare


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 15, 2017 2:35 pm    Post subject: Re: Backup QB Situation Reply with quote

oaktownOG wrote:

Cook essentially lost that game for Oakland single-handedly.


Single-handedly is incredibly harsh on Cook. The whole team could have played better that day.

Cook hadn't even suited up for most of the games in the season. He was thrown in because Carr got hurt and Matt McGloin totally crapped the bed in the game against the Broncos a week later, getting hurt in the process. Absolutely no blame at his feet from me.
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oakdb36


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 15, 2017 4:39 pm    Post subject: Re: Backup QB Situation Reply with quote

Nightmare wrote:
oaktownOG wrote:

Cook essentially lost that game for Oakland single-handedly.


Single-handedly is incredibly harsh on Cook. The whole team could have played better that day.

Cook hadn't even suited up for most of the games in the season. He was thrown in because Carr got hurt and Matt McGloin totally crapped the bed in the game against the Broncos a week later, getting hurt in the process. Absolutely no blame at his feet from me.


The team checked out when Carr went down. And it's understandable because they had no chance to win it all at this point.
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raiderrocker18


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 15, 2017 6:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

its hard to pin what happened last year on cook. the guy didnt suit up all year, never practiced, and suddenly had to take over in denver and then start a road playoff game

i'm not holding the bad play against cook given the circumstances. at the same time (not that it's his fault) he hasn't really shown anything yet either. if manuel outplays him then he should be the #2. cook hasn't earned the right to it.
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