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DuvalsKing


Joined: 15 Nov 2011
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PostPosted: Wed May 24, 2017 4:14 pm    Post subject: Linder back to Guard? Reply with quote

What are you're thoughts on it? Personally I thought that Linder should have never been moved from guard because you should not move a potential dominate guard.. just because you think he could be just as good as a center. Linder didn't play as they expected last year as a center and that people inside were saying Gus made a mistake with that choice last year.

There are rumblings Doug is thinking of moving Linder back to guard and he is interested to see if Tyler Shatley can hold down center. Bad move? Good move?
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Last edited by DuvalsKing on Sat May 27, 2017 8:33 pm; edited 3 times in total
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iPwn


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PostPosted: Wed May 24, 2017 6:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

He didn't play as expected? According to who?

He allowed 2 sacks all year (the lowest of all OL on the team), the team had the most success when running behind him, and by every metric I can find he graded out a top 5 Center in the league.
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DuvalsKing


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PostPosted: Wed May 24, 2017 7:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

iPwn wrote:
He didn't play as expected? According to who?

He allowed 2 sacks all year (the lowest of all OL on the team), the team had the most success when running behind him, and by every metric I can find he graded out a top 5 Center in the league.


No body gave specifics on exactly who said what but it was rumblings that his play at center was not on par with his play at guard.. they didn't say his play at center was terrible. I guess they figure when you make a move from one position to another they were expecting his level of play to be at the same level or better at center. It's not a for sure thing but it is on the table from the new regime that thinks that they can mold Tyler to play as well as Linder at center while still having Linder to move back to guard where he can be dominate at times.

Its just something to watch for in camp a lot of people thought I was crazy when I asked if Scobee would be done going into camp because they signed Myer. But I was hearing Gus didn't see any since of keeping Scobee he was a fixture in the community and was thought of as maybe our best player at once upon a time but Gus felt like he could get that same production from lesser known guy. Not saying for sure that its going to happen because Doug has hinted at the best 5 line personnel will be on the field when the season starts. That could very well much result in Linder moving back to guard if they feel that is where they get the best use of his talents.
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Tugboat


Joined: 30 Mar 2011
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PostPosted: Wed May 24, 2017 10:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I kinda felt that way. But i'm not actually in the meeting rooms, down on the field, etc. to actually know how Linder is handling that aspect of playing in the middle.

For me though, i feel like Center is a weird position in that it can be the most mentally demanding and require the most savvy in that regard, ties the whole line together...but physically, you can get away with a less impressive athlete pretty easily. Which is where i thought Linder looking excellent at RG was the sort of thing i'd just take to the bank and set out looking for a guy with the ability to bandaid at center where they're often going to be getting help anyway.



I legitimately don't know what's going on with our O-Line right now though. If they want to keep Cam at LT (and i can understand why)...Albert is sort...who knows what's going on. The entire line is still basically in flux, though we do have some better pieces to cobble together a functional unit i think.
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DuvalsKing


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 03, 2017 9:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

http://jacksonville.com/sports/jaguars/2017-06-02/jaguars-center-brandon-linder-spending-ota-time-right-guard
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iPwn


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 05, 2017 2:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Looks like Linder to Right Guard and Cann to Left Guard

Gonna be interesting to see what they do at LT now.
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DuvalsKing


Joined: 15 Nov 2011
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 06, 2017 7:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

iPwn wrote:
Looks like Linder to Right Guard and Cann to Left Guard

Gonna be interesting to see what they do at LT now.


I'm not to sure about that I think the only way Cann gets on the field is if Albert doesn't show up

w/Albert
LT:Albert
LG:Robinson
C:Shatley
RG:Linder
RT:Parnell

wo/Albert
LT:Robinson
LG:Cann
C:Shatley
RG:Linder
RT:Parnell

I know people have been stating maybe Robinson to RT. Word out is people inside the building really like Parnell and think a lot of his poor play was attributed to a nagging growing issue but they still have confidence that Parnell can be a solid RT if healthy.
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2014:Khalil Mack - Blake Bortles
2015:Amari Cooper - Dante Fowler
2016:Jalen Ramsey - Jalen Ramsey
2017:Solomon Thomas - Leonard Fournette
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iPwn


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 07, 2017 12:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I really don't see how Shatley is going to be a better C than Cann would be a Guard. But what do I know?
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Tugboat


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 07, 2017 10:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

iPwn wrote:
I really don't see how Shatley is going to be a better C than Cann would be a Guard. But what do I know?


It's not necessarily that strict trade-off though. If they move the cogs around, it becomes about having the best possibly RG play on top of that for example. Have to add that bonus to the equation. Which can actually make the Center play better as well, especially with a good LG on the other side with someone like Cam, or even Cann in his natural spot.


Just comes down to how they value the importance of each spot, and how much better they feel some guys can be at other positions.

ie. If you can get All Pro level play out of Linder at RG vs maybe just good play out of him at C...it could make the line stronger as a unit to go in that direction, even if it makes you marginally weaker among your already weak links. Build around strengths and maximize them, rather than trying to mask weaknesses (which is what we've mostly seen them trying to do in the recent past - and it's been very sucky).

I'm not really sure how it'll all turn out. But i can see some sense in it. Makes even more sense though, if they really think Albert is going to be a no-show.
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iPwn


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 07, 2017 10:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tugboat wrote:
iPwn wrote:
I really don't see how Shatley is going to be a better C than Cann would be a Guard. But what do I know?


It's not necessarily that strict trade-off though. If they move the cogs around, it becomes about having the best possibly RG play on top of that for example. Have to add that bonus to the equation. Which can actually make the Center play better as well, especially with a good LG on the other side with someone like Cam, or even Cann in his natural spot.


Just comes down to how they value the importance of each spot, and how much better they feel some guys can be at other positions.

ie. If you can get All Pro level play out of Linder at RG vs maybe just good play out of him at C...it could make the line stronger as a unit to go in that direction, even if it makes you marginally weaker among your already weak links. Build around strengths and maximize them, rather than trying to mask weaknesses (which is what we've mostly seen them trying to do in the recent past - and it's been very sucky).

I'm not really sure how it'll all turn out. But i can see some sense in it. Makes even more sense though, if they really think Albert is going to be a no-show.
Well yes. But I also don't really see much difference between Linder at C and at G. But again, what do I know? If Albert is gonna no-show, or they're sliding Cam to RT, I get it, as you're getting Cann out there.

What I don't get would be how something like Albert, Cam, Shatley, Linder Parnell could actually be better than Albert, Cam, Linder, Cann, Parnell.

I feel it ends up being Cam, Cann, Shatley, Linder, Parnell, or Albert, Cann, Shatley, Linder, Cam, I get it and that makes sense. And obviously you want to cross train for that possibility. I was just specifically remarking that I don't see how having Cann on the bench so you can start Shatley makes this OL better.
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Tugboat


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 08, 2017 5:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

iPwn wrote:
Tugboat wrote:
iPwn wrote:
I really don't see how Shatley is going to be a better C than Cann would be a Guard. But what do I know?


It's not necessarily that strict trade-off though. If they move the cogs around, it becomes about having the best possibly RG play on top of that for example. Have to add that bonus to the equation. Which can actually make the Center play better as well, especially with a good LG on the other side with someone like Cam, or even Cann in his natural spot.


Just comes down to how they value the importance of each spot, and how much better they feel some guys can be at other positions.

ie. If you can get All Pro level play out of Linder at RG vs maybe just good play out of him at C...it could make the line stronger as a unit to go in that direction, even if it makes you marginally weaker among your already weak links. Build around strengths and maximize them, rather than trying to mask weaknesses (which is what we've mostly seen them trying to do in the recent past - and it's been very sucky).

I'm not really sure how it'll all turn out. But i can see some sense in it. Makes even more sense though, if they really think Albert is going to be a no-show.
Well yes. But I also don't really see much difference between Linder at C and at G. But again, what do I know? If Albert is gonna no-show, or they're sliding Cam to RT, I get it, as you're getting Cann out there.

What I don't get would be how something like Albert, Cam, Shatley, Linder Parnell could actually be better than Albert, Cam, Linder, Cann, Parnell.

I feel it ends up being Cam, Cann, Shatley, Linder, Parnell, or Albert, Cann, Shatley, Linder, Cam, I get it and that makes sense. And obviously you want to cross train for that possibility. I was just specifically remarking that I don't see how having Cann on the bench so you can start Shatley makes this OL better.



Is Cann even so good that it's imperative to get him out there though? I mean, maybe there's still a bit of "upside" there, but he hasn't been a stud Guard thus far.

Unless Cam is at LT and Albert is a no-show (the scenario in which Linder at RG makes even more sense and Cann is on the field anyway)...keeping Linder at C, you're probably just plugging Cann in at RG, where's he's been..."meh" at best. And one of the things they've tried that hasn't been good enough.


Really all comes down to whether Shatley or someone else is serviceable at Center. It's not like he's necessarily a total scrub compared to Cann anyway.
But as long as someone can provide serviceable play at C, i like the idea of getting the good linemen at their best spots. Even if that means Cann is a backup (until the inevitable injuries hit in week 1 at least Laughing ).
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Jags


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 11, 2017 12:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

What is the possibility of Robinson sitting out his first year in the league? As history has shown, Branden Albert does not finish all 16 games. He has played all 16 games once in his career, and that was 2011. Since 2011 he has missed 20 out of 80 regular season games (also was not a starter for 2 more). That means he misses about 25% of regular season games. History since 2011 tells us he'll play about 12 games this year. Now the future is just to be speculated, but maybe Robinson was just insurance/ future replacement for Albert, who is our current "fill in" at LT.

http://www.nfl.com/player/brandenalbert/660/profile

I wouldn't mind seeing Albert, Cann, Shatley, Linder, Parnell. I just hope whatever gets out there, performs well and protects the QB and opens holes in the running game consistently.


I seriously want the Jaguars to consider signing Cyrus Kouandjio. He still has potential and he is in the same mold as Robinson. Please Jaguars. Please.
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Tugboat


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 13, 2017 4:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jags wrote:
What is the possibility of Robinson sitting out his first year in the league? As history has shown, Branden Albert does not finish all 16 games. He has played all 16 games once in his career, and that was 2011. Since 2011 he has missed 20 out of 80 regular season games (also was not a starter for 2 more). That means he misses about 25% of regular season games. History since 2011 tells us he'll play about 12 games this year. Now the future is just to be speculated, but maybe Robinson was just insurance/ future replacement for Albert, who is our current "fill in" at LT.

http://www.nfl.com/player/brandenalbert/660/profile

I wouldn't mind seeing Albert, Cann, Shatley, Linder, Parnell. I just hope whatever gets out there, performs well and protects the QB and opens holes in the running game consistently.


I seriously want the Jaguars to consider signing Cyrus Kouandjio. He still has potential and he is in the same mold as Robinson. Please Jaguars. Please.



Do you think Cann is actually going to be a better LG than Robinson at this point? I think i must be missing something when it comes to Cann tbh...i just don't get the obsession with him being in the starting lineup at all costs. He's a plenty serviceable guard, but he's shown to be more of a depth guy than a quality starter thus far. Is he going to take a huge step this year?


With Robinson, i just don't see how they can sit the guy for the year and only plug him in for injuries. You don't pick a guy like that as high as that, out of a program like that...if you plan to sit them for a year. Developmental picks are later round fare. QB being the only real exception.


Though when it comes to Robinson, to me...it makes more sense to just keep the guy on the Left, even if that means easing him in at LG. That makes way more sense to me than flipping him to RT if your eventual plan is for him to take over at LT.
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.Buzz


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 15, 2017 2:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

iPwn wrote:
Looks like Linder to Right Guard and Cann to Left Guard

Gonna be interesting to see what they do at LT now.


If Linder moving to RG means that Cann will be LG next year, than I'm all for the move. Cann was not a great fit at RG and is a natural LG (played that in college). I always liked Bowanko, not sure how to feel about Shatley though. Going to be interesting if they play well enough to make them feel comfortable moving Linder off C when things get serious in Training Camp.
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.Buzz


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 15, 2017 3:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tugboat wrote:
Jags wrote:
What is the possibility of Robinson sitting out his first year in the league? As history has shown, Branden Albert does not finish all 16 games. He has played all 16 games once in his career, and that was 2011. Since 2011 he has missed 20 out of 80 regular season games (also was not a starter for 2 more). That means he misses about 25% of regular season games. History since 2011 tells us he'll play about 12 games this year. Now the future is just to be speculated, but maybe Robinson was just insurance/ future replacement for Albert, who is our current "fill in" at LT.

http://www.nfl.com/player/brandenalbert/660/profile

I wouldn't mind seeing Albert, Cann, Shatley, Linder, Parnell. I just hope whatever gets out there, performs well and protects the QB and opens holes in the running game consistently.


I seriously want the Jaguars to consider signing Cyrus Kouandjio. He still has potential and he is in the same mold as Robinson. Please Jaguars. Please.



Do you think Cann is actually going to be a better LG than Robinson at this point? I think i must be missing something when it comes to Cann tbh...i just don't get the obsession with him being in the starting lineup at all costs. He's a plenty serviceable guard, but he's shown to be more of a depth guy than a quality starter thus far. Is he going to take a huge step this year?


With Robinson, i just don't see how they can sit the guy for the year and only plug him in for injuries. You don't pick a guy like that as high as that, out of a program like that...if you plan to sit them for a year. Developmental picks are later round fare. QB being the only real exception.


Though when it comes to Robinson, to me...it makes more sense to just keep the guy on the Left, even if that means easing him in at LG. That makes way more sense to me than flipping him to RT if your eventual plan is for him to take over at LT.


Last year Cann had a rough go, so I don't think you can pencil him in without a doubt. But he has some of the highest upside imo after Robinson/Linder on the OL. If we're talking about having Cann at LG (where his natural position is unlike RG where he's been playing) or Parnell at RT (if we're talking about Cam not geting the LT gig and having to move him elsewhere) than I'd honestly rather replace Parnell. Parnell played very well from week 10 on last year, so I guess if he plays like that all year then fine, move Cann to a reserve role. If he has health issues/is looking old, than I'd much rather stick Robinson at RT. I get what you're saying about just keeping him on the left side, but it sounds to me like they're all about the best five OL on the field...not just where it fits best. Seems like with the Linder move they feel like LG is their weakest spot (if Linder is at C and Cann is at RG with Cam/Albert penciled in at ONLY LT right now with Onmameh/Shatley etc. penciled in at LG) on the line.

They really seem against the thought of Cam anywhere else besides LT right now.
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