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turtle28


Joined: 21 Nov 2007
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PostPosted: Tue May 30, 2017 12:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Slappy Mc wrote:
Im just imagining, Josh Doctson and Terrelle Pryor split wide running fades. Jamison Crowder in the slot running a crossing route with Jordan Reed running a cross underneath. A backfield of Samaje Perine and Rob Kelley, whichever gets the ball, the other blocks. In a goal to go situation, this offense makes me very happy.
I would hope in a goal to go situation that we'd have 2 or 3 TEs in there instead of 3 WRs or even 2 running backs.

Also, if rather both of our out side receivers NOT run fades. One of them running a fade is fine, but I'd rather see the other one run a slant, crossing route or an out.

Having two WRs run fade in the endzone definitely seems like overkill. Just as much as overkill as when McVay called 3 fades in a row inside the 10 yard line last year vs the Cowboys.
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HTTRG3Dynasty


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PostPosted: Tue May 30, 2017 12:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

turtle28 wrote:
Slappy Mc wrote:
Im just imagining, Josh Doctson and Terrelle Pryor split wide running fades. Jamison Crowder in the slot running a crossing route with Jordan Reed running a cross underneath. A backfield of Samaje Perine and Rob Kelley, whichever gets the ball, the other blocks. In a goal to go situation, this offense makes me very happy.
I would hope in a goal to go situation that we'd have 2 or 3 TEs in there instead of 3 WRs or even 2 running backs.

Also, if rather both of our out side receivers NOT run fades. One of them running a fade is fine, but I'd rather see the other one run a slant, crossing route or an out.

Having two WRs run fade in the endzone definitely seems like overkill. Just as much as overkill as when McVay called 3 fades in a row inside the 10 yard line last year vs the Cowboys.


Not if your WRs are good at running fades and your QB can throw it accurately. Calling two fades on the outside and giving your TE and/or slot WR plenty of room to work with on the inside can be deadly.

Then again, you were the one arguing all last offseason with that Seahawks fan that DJax was a legit red zone threat, so I'm not sure if we're on the same wavelength when it comes to the best red zone personnel to use Laughing .
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turtle28


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PostPosted: Tue May 30, 2017 6:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

HTTRG3Dynasty wrote:
turtle28 wrote:
Slappy Mc wrote:
Im just imagining, Josh Doctson and Terrelle Pryor split wide running fades. Jamison Crowder in the slot running a crossing route with Jordan Reed running a cross underneath. A backfield of Samaje Perine and Rob Kelley, whichever gets the ball, the other blocks. In a goal to go situation, this offense makes me very happy.
I would hope in a goal to go situation that we'd have 2 or 3 TEs in there instead of 3 WRs or even 2 running backs.

Also, if rather both of our out side receivers NOT run fades. One of them running a fade is fine, but I'd rather see the other one run a slant, crossing route or an out.

Having two WRs run fade in the endzone definitely seems like overkill. Just as much as overkill as when McVay called 3 fades in a row inside the 10 yard line last year vs the Cowboys.


Not if your WRs are good at running fades and your QB can throw it accurately. Calling two fades on the outside and giving your TE and/or slot WR plenty of room to work with on the inside can be deadly.

Then again, you were the one arguing all last offseason with that Seahawks fan that DJax was a legit red zone threat, so I'm not sure if we're on the same wavelength when it comes to the best red zone personnel to use Laughing .
Three points.

1. Receivers need to be able to high point balls, Garçon couldn't do that well and Djax wasn't going to be a great fade receiver either because of his height. I never tried to say either would be a great fade receiver but there are more routes to run that can result in TDs and Garçon and Djax are good at getting open on those routes. We needed to throw to Reed more if we were going to throw fades, actually we needed to use Reed more than we did in the redzone last year, like in 2015 when he had 5 more TD receptions than he did last year.

2. I argued with that Falcon fan that the skins shouldn't try to do with Doctson what they tried to do with him in the first cowboys game because I didn't think that it would be very successful. Last time I checked, Doctson had one ball go right through his arms and barely made a play on the other one and it wasn't just because of Cousins, the two didn't have good chemistry because Doctson barely played.

3. My point about Djax with him and others was because of his quickness he could be used on slants and other short routes like outs and crossing routes to get TDs. He can be a redzone threat in that way, but we rarely tried to score with him in that way when we got in close. The only time I remember is doing that much with him was in 2014 when he had a few TDs on slants.

Basically, our offense was pretty vanilla in the redzone - more vanilla than it was the when we weren't in the redzone - and it showed. There were different routes we could have run, different running plays we could of run - including keepers and more some read - that would have resulted in more TDs for our offense. Many people like to put most of the blame on Kirk for our failures in the redzone during the 2016 playoff game and during the 2016 season but I think there's more than enough blame that should fall at the feet of Sean McVay than anyone has truly ever admitted.

It will be interesting to see if the Redskins 2017 offense is better than the Rams 2017 offense in the redzone this year.
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Last edited by turtle28 on Wed May 31, 2017 1:41 pm; edited 1 time in total
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turtle28


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PostPosted: Wed May 31, 2017 1:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/football-insider/wp/2017/05/31/five-areas-to-watch-as-the-redskins-continue-offseason-practices-2/?utm_term=.fcca1ba631d0&wpisrc=nl_sports&wpmm=1

Redskins OTA observations, analysis: Trent Williams, Jordan Reed and of course Matt Jones still absent; Terrell McClain, Martrell Spaight, DHall, Moreau and Nicholson all working on the side.
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MKnight82


Joined: 04 Mar 2009
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PostPosted: Wed May 31, 2017 3:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

turtle28 wrote:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/football-insider/wp/2017/05/31/five-areas-to-watch-as-the-redskins-continue-offseason-practices-2/?utm_term=.fcca1ba631d0&wpisrc=nl_sports&wpmm=1

Redskins OTA observations, analysis: Trent Williams, Jordan Reed and of course Matt Jones still absent; Terrell McClain, Martrell Spaight, DHall, Moreau and Nicholson all working on the side.
What's wrong with Nicholson?
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turtle28


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PostPosted: Wed May 31, 2017 7:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

MKnight82 wrote:
turtle28 wrote:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/football-insider/wp/2017/05/31/five-areas-to-watch-as-the-redskins-continue-offseason-practices-2/?utm_term=.fcca1ba631d0&wpisrc=nl_sports&wpmm=1

Redskins OTA observations, analysis: Trent Williams, Jordan Reed and of course Matt Jones still absent; Terrell McClain, Martrell Spaight, DHall, Moreau and Nicholson all working on the side.
What's wrong with Nicholson?


http://m.redskins.com/news/article-1/Montae-Nicholson-Ready-To-Learn-The-Defense-As-He-Rehabs/39fb7ca2-a18c-4745-b754-6b103f3a5d40

Shoulder surgery on a torn labrum.

Quote:
In one sense, this is all he will really be able to do anyway, as the Redskins' fourth-round safety in this year's draft is still recovering from surgery to repair a torn labrum he suffered [with] throughout his junior season at Michigan State.

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turtle28


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PostPosted: Wed May 31, 2017 8:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

@breakburgundy

Quote:
Cousins completed a bomb to Pryor who was held by Breeland for about last 10yds. Pryor still caught it. No. 11 gonna be a problem for folks.

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Slappy Mc


Joined: 05 Jan 2006
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 01, 2017 12:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

turtle28 wrote:
Slappy Mc wrote:
Im just imagining, Josh Doctson and Terrelle Pryor split wide running fades. Jamison Crowder in the slot running a crossing route with Jordan Reed running a cross underneath. A backfield of Samaje Perine and Rob Kelley, whichever gets the ball, the other blocks. In a goal to go situation, this offense makes me very happy.
I would hope in a goal to go situation that we'd have 2 or 3 TEs in there instead of 3 WRs or even 2 running backs.

Also, if rather both of our out side receivers NOT run fades. One of them running a fade is fine, but I'd rather see the other one run a slant, crossing route or an out.

Having two WRs run fade in the endzone definitely seems like overkill. Just as much as overkill as when McVay called 3 fades in a row inside the 10 yard line last year vs the Cowboys.
I like to spread out the defense and run inside. Changes the personnel package for the defense. If you are inside the 5 by all means throw in the big uglys and pound the ball, but for me 3 WRs 1 TE 2 RBs works in the Red Zone.
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turtle28


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 01, 2017 7:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Slappy Mc wrote:
turtle28 wrote:
Slappy Mc wrote:
Im just imagining, Josh Doctson and Terrelle Pryor split wide running fades. Jamison Crowder in the slot running a crossing route with Jordan Reed running a cross underneath. A backfield of Samaje Perine and Rob Kelley, whichever gets the ball, the other blocks. In a goal to go situation, this offense makes me very happy.
I would hope in a goal to go situation that we'd have 2 or 3 TEs in there instead of 3 WRs or even 2 running backs.

Also, if rather both of our out side receivers NOT run fades. One of them running a fade is fine, but I'd rather see the other one run a slant, crossing route or an out.

Having two WRs run fade in the endzone definitely seems like overkill. Just as much as overkill as when McVay called 3 fades in a row inside the 10 yard line last year vs the Cowboys.
I like to spread out the defense and run inside. Changes the personnel package for the defense. If you are inside the 5 by all means throw in the big uglys and pound the ball, but for me 3 WRs 1 TE 2 RBs works in the Red Zone.
We've been more successful with 2 TE or 3 TE in the game and running the ball the last several years out of that in the redzone. Also, we can always play action fake out of it for a Cousins TD pass to Reed, the WR in the game (probably Pryor) or Davis or, Cousins can keep it on a bootleg.

We certainly can do different formations and we should because the last two years our O was too vanilla in the redzone, especially in what we did in the run game.

Different formations are definitely needed and we need to run different plays out of those formations.
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MKnight82


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 02, 2017 10:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

turtle28 wrote:
Slappy Mc wrote:
turtle28 wrote:
Slappy Mc wrote:
Im just imagining, Josh Doctson and Terrelle Pryor split wide running fades. Jamison Crowder in the slot running a crossing route with Jordan Reed running a cross underneath. A backfield of Samaje Perine and Rob Kelley, whichever gets the ball, the other blocks. In a goal to go situation, this offense makes me very happy.
I would hope in a goal to go situation that we'd have 2 or 3 TEs in there instead of 3 WRs or even 2 running backs.

Also, if rather both of our out side receivers NOT run fades. One of them running a fade is fine, but I'd rather see the other one run a slant, crossing route or an out.

Having two WRs run fade in the endzone definitely seems like overkill. Just as much as overkill as when McVay called 3 fades in a row inside the 10 yard line last year vs the Cowboys.
I like to spread out the defense and run inside. Changes the personnel package for the defense. If you are inside the 5 by all means throw in the big uglys and pound the ball, but for me 3 WRs 1 TE 2 RBs works in the Red Zone.
We've been more successful with 2 TE or 3 TE in the game and running the ball the last several years out of that in the redzone. Also, we can always play action fake out of it for a Cousins TD pass to Reed, the WR in the game (probably Pryor) or Davis or, Cousins can keep it on a bootleg.

We certainly can do different formations and we should because the last two years our O was too vanilla in the redzone, especially in what we did in the run game.

Different formations are definitely needed and we need to run different plays out of those formations.
That's probably because we didn't have legitimate redzone threats that the defense had to cover.
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turtle28


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 02, 2017 12:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

MKnight82 wrote:
turtle28 wrote:
Slappy Mc wrote:
turtle28 wrote:
Slappy Mc wrote:
Im just imagining, Josh Doctson and Terrelle Pryor split wide running fades. Jamison Crowder in the slot running a crossing route with Jordan Reed running a cross underneath. A backfield of Samaje Perine and Rob Kelley, whichever gets the ball, the other blocks. In a goal to go situation, this offense makes me very happy.
I would hope in a goal to go situation that we'd have 2 or 3 TEs in there instead of 3 WRs or even 2 running backs.

Also, if rather both of our out side receivers NOT run fades. One of them running a fade is fine, but I'd rather see the other one run a slant, crossing route or an out.

Having two WRs run fade in the endzone definitely seems like overkill. Just as much as overkill as when McVay called 3 fades in a row inside the 10 yard line last year vs the Cowboys.
I like to spread out the defense and run inside. Changes the personnel package for the defense. If you are inside the 5 by all means throw in the big uglys and pound the ball, but for me 3 WRs 1 TE 2 RBs works in the Red Zone.
We've been more successful with 2 TE or 3 TE in the game and running the ball the last several years out of that in the redzone. Also, we can always play action fake out of it for a Cousins TD pass to Reed, the WR in the game (probably Pryor) or Davis or, Cousins can keep it on a bootleg.

We certainly can do different formations and we should because the last two years our O was too vanilla in the redzone, especially in what we did in the run game.

Different formations are definitely needed and we need to run different plays out of those formations.
That's probably because we didn't have legitimate redzone threats that the defense had to cover.
Jordan Reed is a legitimate redzone threat and Garçon and others did score redzone TDs on other routes and Garçon did catch a few fades.

Some of the issue comes down to creativity and lack of it in the redzone over the last two years for our offense. No matter what is called though, our players should execute and they failed to do that a lot. We had false starts, missed blocks, poor running by our backs, bad routes, late throws and a few bad ints from our qb. Those things need to improve as well.

It's frustrating to see the O have no penalties for 70 yards and then when they get to the 10, have a false start.
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Slappy Mc


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 02, 2017 1:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

turtle28 wrote:
Slappy Mc wrote:
turtle28 wrote:
Slappy Mc wrote:
Im just imagining, Josh Doctson and Terrelle Pryor split wide running fades. Jamison Crowder in the slot running a crossing route with Jordan Reed running a cross underneath. A backfield of Samaje Perine and Rob Kelley, whichever gets the ball, the other blocks. In a goal to go situation, this offense makes me very happy.
I would hope in a goal to go situation that we'd have 2 or 3 TEs in there instead of 3 WRs or even 2 running backs.

Also, if rather both of our out side receivers NOT run fades. One of them running a fade is fine, but I'd rather see the other one run a slant, crossing route or an out.

Having two WRs run fade in the endzone definitely seems like overkill. Just as much as overkill as when McVay called 3 fades in a row inside the 10 yard line last year vs the Cowboys.
I like to spread out the defense and run inside. Changes the personnel package for the defense. If you are inside the 5 by all means throw in the big uglys and pound the ball, but for me 3 WRs 1 TE 2 RBs works in the Red Zone.
We've been more successful with 2 TE or 3 TE in the game and running the ball the last several years out of that in the redzone. Also, we can always play action fake out of it for a Cousins TD pass to Reed, the WR in the game (probably Pryor) or Davis or, Cousins can keep it on a bootleg.

We certainly can do different formations and we should because the last two years our O was too vanilla in the redzone, especially in what we did in the run game.

Different formations are definitely needed and we need to run different plays out of those formations.
We havent been successful in the Redzone at all. If my memory serves me, we were one of if not thee worst Redzone conversion teams in the NFL last year. Yes play calling is a part of that, but personnel and execution more than play calling. Running a fade to a 6'1 receiver is not ideal.
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turtle28


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 02, 2017 6:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cooley said we were most successful running the ball in the redzone when we were in a 2 TE, 2 WR look in the redzone. I believe that's true, that's all I'm saying.

We weren't good in the redzone last year but we were still 12th in scoring. It was an issue, but the bigger issue was scoring defense.
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 11, 2017 7:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

turtle28 wrote:
@breakburgundy

Quote:
Cousins completed a bomb to Pryor who was held by Breeland for about last 10yds. Pryor still caught it. No. 11 gonna be a problem for folks.
THAT's RIGHT!!!!
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 12, 2017 11:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

DCRED wrote:
turtle28 wrote:
@breakburgundy

Quote:
Cousins completed a bomb to Pryor who was held by Breeland for about last 10yds. Pryor still caught it. No. 11 gonna be a problem for folks.
THAT's RIGHT!!!!


Breeland stinks, let's wait until he does this against an NFL quality cornerback.
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