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Jlash


Joined: 17 Oct 2016
Posts: 2133
Location: NJ
PostPosted: Tue Jun 20, 2017 2:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think Smallwood's top end speed is MUCH better than Clement. Smallwood has better hands as well.
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Hockey5djh


Joined: 08 Feb 2008
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 20, 2017 2:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jroc04 wrote:
Hockey5djh wrote:
Jroc04 wrote:
How many RBs are you expecting them to keep? 3 is usually the number


Usual number is 4? Mathews, Sproles, Smallwood, and Barner were the 4 last year.

Generally your 3rd QB isn't on the active roster.


Generally, around the league I'm pretty sure teams keep 3 and incorporate a FB but actually halfbacks is at 3. We were in a unique situation given how injury prone Mathews is/was so we needed the depth there. And since we don't have a FB designation I imagine the number is still 3 with depth going elsewhere.

The 3rd QB is apart of the 53. He's just usually inactive each game.

And you can see the proposed roster. Where are you cutting 2 or 3 guys for Smallwood?


I'll go off of your proposed 26.

I'd rather have a 4th RB than McGloin and you're super heavy on the OL.

- McGloin - When you have a franchise QB your 3rd stringer can be a PS guy, you're generally not winning if your 3rd guy goes in anyway so who care's if McGloin is the one doing the losing or Vai Sikahema gets signed off the street to lose games for us.

- OL - There's Peters, Lane, Kelce, Brooks, and either Seumalo or Barbre starting. Seumalo/Barbre would be the top G backup, Vaitai the Tackle backup, and Wiz the C backup and 3rd guard.

- Dillon - He's the 4th tackle at best since Lane would move to LT and Vaitai would sub in if Peters went down...hell maybe even 5th tackle if you count Barbre.

- Tobin - I don't think there's any way we keep 4 back-up interior OL, especially with the versatility of Wiz and Seumalo.

- Warmack - I wouldn't be shocked if Warmack doesn't pick up his old magic with Stoutland and Tobin makes the team over him for versatility alone.
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Hockey5djh


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 20, 2017 2:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

D-Lo wrote:
Bednarik60 wrote:
I think Corey Clement beats out Smallwood. Hes basically the same player with more power and size.


Thats probably the only way Smallwood doesnt make the team. He was decent as rookie and I dont see them giving up on him this year. Pumphrey is not a traditional back and willbe used in the slot for a decent amount of his snaps. If we lost Blount while we only carry Sproles and Pumphrey we wouldnt have anything resembling a run game. Gibson will either be cut or stashed on IR, we're not carrying 6 WRs unless one of Gibson, DGB, Treggs, et cetera, balls out to the point of being uncuttable. That seems very unlikely. So, IMO, you can book it that one of Smallwood and Clement will make the roster.


Don't get me wrong if Clement or Byron Marshall beat out Smallwood I would feel the same way about them being the 4th RB over other depth positions.
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Jroc04


Joined: 19 Mar 2008
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 20, 2017 3:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

26 was just a number that I came up with going through and finding value. Without even looking at the defense the number could easily be 24 instead. But we can play the game.

McGloin- I can agree. Wouldn't surprise me if he didn't make it.

OL- I don't know how they don't have 10 at least. And not having OL depth is silly in so many ways. I've heard Roseman boast more than once how he likes the depth there. Especially with the questions around Kelce being traded or even being on the team after this year, interior depth is more important than years previous.

Dillon- Has been converted from a TE. There's a reason they had him on the roster all year. They believe they found a promising player. But he clearly needs time. I doubt he gets cut. Peters is 100 years old, he could be finished tomorrow for all we know. And with Lane one sniff of PEDs away from bar tending I'd imagine they want the depth.

You can argue Tobin and Warmack. Tobin moreso but I've expressed how I feel about leaving OL thin. I think it's foolish. Like, what's more important? Having solid depth at OL, who protects your franchise, in case of injury or a 4th string RB? I honestly don't even think it's close.

We'll just have to disagree on this.
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Hockey5djh


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 20, 2017 3:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jroc04 wrote:
We'll just have to disagree on this.


I don't mind disagreeing, I just think that a 4th RB is more important than a 3rd QB or a 4th Guard/Tackle. QB and OL are positions that only really rotate due to injury, if everyone stays healthy that starting OL will end the year with ~95% of the snaps. That said RB and WR both rotate somewhat significantly (especially without an established 3 down back) and both provide value on special teams as gunners and returners.
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Jeezla


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 20, 2017 7:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jlash wrote:
I think Smallwood's top end speed is MUCH better than Clement. Smallwood has better hands as well.

Better agility too. Smallwood isn't bad, but the OL was whenver he got carries, it seemed like. There would always be a DE or DT right in his face immediately after taking a hand-off. It was like watching Shady in year 2 of the Totalitarian Chiptatorship, when he never had a chance on 3/4 of his carries.
Smalls does need to clean up the fumbling though. No excuse for that crap, but he can run when the OL gives him a chance.
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Jroc04


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 20, 2017 7:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hockey5djh wrote:
Jroc04 wrote:
We'll just have to disagree on this.


I don't mind disagreeing, I just think that a 4th RB is more important than a 3rd QB or a 4th Guard/Tackle. QB and OL are positions that only really rotate due to injury, if everyone stays healthy that starting OL will end the year with ~95% of the snaps. That said RB and WR both rotate somewhat significantly (especially without an established 3 down back) and both provide value on special teams as gunners and returners.


lol We aren't even close on this. And that's fine. I can't see where you can just blanket the statement "4th RB is more important than a 3rd QB or a 4th G/T." Wentz was our 3rd QB last year and if Bridgewater doesn't get hurt then he probably stays there at least for the start of the season. Granted, it's not even close to the same situation but my point is you have to take each situation case by case. McGloin could be cut easily, that's conceded. Even after that, I still don't see a spot for Smallwood. As for the OL, most guys lower on the depth chart are projects or younger players. These are important as well. Moreso on this team with our uncertainty just about at every position going forward. Peter: old, could retire at any moment. Lane: PEDs. Brooks: anxiety. Kelce: rumors of being traded or replaced by next year are apparent. Isaac: probably the safest going forward but still lacking a lot of experience. Having reliable backups/possible starters and a couple to coach up are more essential to a guy that, even in your words was drafted over by a guy with a similar skillet and had a FA brought in to eat up all his possible touches. And I'd much rather have that depth for WRs before RBs. There's 8 Smallwoods in every draft and about 20 of them walking the street. If he's cut and Blount or whoever gets hurt, he's easily replaced.
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Hockey5djh


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 21, 2017 8:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jroc04 wrote:
Hockey5djh wrote:
Jroc04 wrote:
We'll just have to disagree on this.


I don't mind disagreeing, I just think that a 4th RB is more important than a 3rd QB or a 4th Guard/Tackle. QB and OL are positions that only really rotate due to injury, if everyone stays healthy that starting OL will end the year with ~95% of the snaps. That said RB and WR both rotate somewhat significantly (especially without an established 3 down back) and both provide value on special teams as gunners and returners.


lol We aren't even close on this. And that's fine. I can't see where you can just blanket the statement "4th RB is more important than a 3rd QB or a 4th G/T." Wentz was our 3rd QB last year and if Bridgewater doesn't get hurt then he probably stays there at least for the start of the season. Granted, it's not even close to the same situation but my point is you have to take each situation case by case. McGloin could be cut easily, that's conceded. Even after that, I still don't see a spot for Smallwood. As for the OL, most guys lower on the depth chart are projects or younger players. These are important as well. Moreso on this team with our uncertainty just about at every position going forward. Peter: old, could retire at any moment. Lane: PEDs. Brooks: anxiety. Kelce: rumors of being traded or replaced by next year are apparent. Isaac: probably the safest going forward but still lacking a lot of experience. Having reliable backups/possible starters and a couple to coach up are more essential to a guy that, even in your words was drafted over by a guy with a similar skillet and had a FA brought in to eat up all his possible touches. And I'd much rather have that depth for WRs before RBs. There's 8 Smallwoods in every draft and about 20 of them walking the street. If he's cut and Blount or whoever gets hurt, he's easily replaced.


Wentz was 100% different than McGloin and you know that so its not worth the debate.

That said, yes, I believe that a 4th RB on the roster is more valuable than a 4th Tackle/Guard.
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MemphisEagles


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 21, 2017 9:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wouldn't be surprised if our fourth back is someone who is on someone else's roster right now. Someone who gets cut is probably better than Smallwood or Clement.
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Jroc04


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 21, 2017 9:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hockey5djh wrote:
Jroc04 wrote:
Hockey5djh wrote:
Jroc04 wrote:
We'll just have to disagree on this.


I don't mind disagreeing, I just think that a 4th RB is more important than a 3rd QB or a 4th Guard/Tackle. QB and OL are positions that only really rotate due to injury, if everyone stays healthy that starting OL will end the year with ~95% of the snaps. That said RB and WR both rotate somewhat significantly (especially without an established 3 down back) and both provide value on special teams as gunners and returners.


lol We aren't even close on this. And that's fine. I can't see where you can just blanket the statement "4th RB is more important than a 3rd QB or a 4th G/T." Wentz was our 3rd QB last year and if Bridgewater doesn't get hurt then he probably stays there at least for the start of the season. Granted, it's not even close to the same situation but my point is you have to take each situation case by case. McGloin could be cut easily, that's conceded. Even after that, I still don't see a spot for Smallwood. As for the OL, most guys lower on the depth chart are projects or younger players. These are important as well. Moreso on this team with our uncertainty just about at every position going forward. Peter: old, could retire at any moment. Lane: PEDs. Brooks: anxiety. Kelce: rumors of being traded or replaced by next year are apparent. Isaac: probably the safest going forward but still lacking a lot of experience. Having reliable backups/possible starters and a couple to coach up are more essential to a guy that, even in your words was drafted over by a guy with a similar skillet and had a FA brought in to eat up all his possible touches. And I'd much rather have that depth for WRs before RBs. There's 8 Smallwoods in every draft and about 20 of them walking the street. If he's cut and Blount or whoever gets hurt, he's easily replaced.


Wentz was 100% different than McGloin and you know that so its not worth the debate.

That said, yes, I believe that a 4th RB on the roster is more valuable than a 4th Tackle/Guard.


Which is why I stated it that way. I guess you ignored the part when I said
Quote:
Granted, it's not even close to the same situation but my point is you have to take each situation case by case.
Just saying a 4th RB is more important than your 4th G/T is irresponsible. Our OL has its issues. The depth is needed far more there than at RB.

Just so happens we lose the dynamo Smallwood and we need a RB after all, there's a dozen guys just like him.
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Nabbs4u


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 21, 2017 2:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

MemphisEagles wrote:
Wouldn't be surprised if our fourth back is someone who is on someone else's roster right now. Someone who gets cut is probably better than Smallwood or Clement.


While this is probably true , Howie's not going to admit "He" not Chip wasted a 3rd rd draft pick on Smallwood. No way he gets cut after one season. Roseman doesn't admit mistakes that quickly when they're his. Need proof, just look at Marcus Smith.
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Bednarik60


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 21, 2017 2:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nabbs4u wrote:
MemphisEagles wrote:
Wouldn't be surprised if our fourth back is someone who is on someone else's roster right now. Someone who gets cut is probably better than Smallwood or Clement.


While this is probably true , Howie's not going to admit "He" not Chip wasted a 3rd rd draft pick on Smallwood. No way he gets cut after one season. Roseman doesn't admit mistakes that quickly when they're his. Need proof, just look at Marcus Smith.


This is why we will never be the Patriots or that caliber of a team. They will move on from guys they drafted that year if they dont turn out that good, they dont care, you either fit what they are doing and can be productive or your gone.

We always keep like 5 guys who shouldn't even be in the league cause we drafted them a year or two ago.

This post has nothing to do with Smallwood. Just saying.
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Bednarik60


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 21, 2017 2:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tyrone McKenzie rings a bell.

The Patriots drafted Tyrone McKenzie in the 3rd, he tears his ACL in a mini camp and they cut him a year later. He didn't linger on the roster, he wasn't that great of a prospect and he got hurt and couldnt be productive. They weren't going to waste a roster spot on him so they moved on.

Its one 3rd round pick, you get another one next year, you just move on.
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Nabbs4u


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 21, 2017 2:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bednarik60 wrote:
Tyrone McKenzie rings a bell.

The Patriots drafted Tyrone McKenzie in the 3rd, he tears his ACL in a mini camp and they cut him a year later. He didn't linger on the roster, he wasn't that great of a prospect and he got hurt and couldnt be productive. They weren't going to waste a roster spot on him so they moved on.

Its one 3rd round pick, you get another one next year, you just move on.


B60 you're missing the big picture. Find me an example of Belicheck doing that "Pre" SB Champion? He can virtually do whatever he wants with no questions asked after the SB's he's won. Guarantee you that wasn't the case in Cleveland or before his 1st SB. Let alone #5.

Howie doesn't have that luxury
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Bednarik60


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 21, 2017 4:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nabbs4u wrote:
Bednarik60 wrote:
Tyrone McKenzie rings a bell.

The Patriots drafted Tyrone McKenzie in the 3rd, he tears his ACL in a mini camp and they cut him a year later. He didn't linger on the roster, he wasn't that great of a prospect and he got hurt and couldnt be productive. They weren't going to waste a roster spot on him so they moved on.

Its one 3rd round pick, you get another one next year, you just move on.


B60 you're missing the big picture. Find me an example of Belicheck doing that "Pre" SB Champion? He can virtually do whatever he wants with no questions asked after the SB's he's won. Guarantee you that wasn't the case in Cleveland or before his 1st SB. Let alone #5.

Howie doesn't have that luxury


He has been doing that kinda thing forever. He will cut any one. And he won a Super Bowl in his 2 year with the Patriots.

Brock Williams comes to mind tho if you want to play hot tub time machine. Drafted by the Patriots in the 3rd round of the 2001 draft and cut less then a year later.

He does this all the time.

And what your missing on, is this is why there Super Bowl champs, and were bums, we hold onto bum players way to long and never build the best roster possible.
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