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BayRaider


Joined: 01 Jun 2011
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 15, 2017 1:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

JTagg7754 wrote:
Days Gone looks soooooo good. Saw that it may not even be released until 2019 but something to look forward to I guess lol.


1) I hate shooting games.

2) I hate zombie games.

However, this game looks spectacular.
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Crickett


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 15, 2017 1:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

BayRaider wrote:
JTagg7754 wrote:
Days Gone looks soooooo good. Saw that it may not even be released until 2019 but something to look forward to I guess lol.


1) I hate shooting games.

2) I hate zombie games.

However, this game looks spectacular.



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Superman(DH23)


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 15, 2017 1:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

HighHopes wrote:
I'm not really sure cost of development can be used as a reason this generation. A huge point of this generation was supposed to be ease of development and how it is similar it is to developing for the PC. We know how easy it is to down scale on PC games as they give it to us in the options lol.
downscaling makes sense on a pc bc not everybody has the latest and greatest hardware and there is no need to lock framerate bc if the pc is capable of running it it will run smoothly. There is a difference on consoles. The hardware is all identical (amongst the specific brands and types. You lock framerate to keep it running smooth across all consoles. And the launch ps4s and xbone were near identical now its not so much the case with 2 ps4s and 3 xbones. Development on aaa title runs roughly $60m. That means it takes roughly 1m units to break even on a game (this is excluding microtransactions of course). Every extra dollar spent to change builds between different versions is another unit that has to b sold. This isnt about if its too expensive to do, its whether its cost effective. Is the money it costs worth the return. The answer is until we see otherwise, no its not. People that are going to buy a aaa title are going to buy it if it upacales or not. And they are going to buy it for the system they already have. Multuplats dont sell systems. Ms as much as they may want to [inappropriate/removed] about multiplats having marketing deals has to get units into homes and that is going to take 1st party titles to do it. Just like i havent bought a pro yet, most xbone owners arent buying an xbx until there is reason to. 4K adoption helps and we will probably see more pros and xbx's leave the shelf this holiday. But the fact remains developers are going to do what gives them the best bang for their buck. Until they see an install base that makes it worth their wild they are not going to develop for console subsets
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BayRaider


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 15, 2017 2:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Crickett wrote:
BayRaider wrote:
JTagg7754 wrote:
Days Gone looks soooooo good. Saw that it may not even be released until 2019 but something to look forward to I guess lol.


1) I hate shooting games.

2) I hate zombie games.

However, this game looks spectacular.




There's been enough shooting and zombie games to last a century. No thanks.
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Matts4313


Joined: 08 Dec 2004
Posts: 49008
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 15, 2017 4:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Superman(DH23) wrote:
HighHopes wrote:
I'm not really sure cost of development can be used as a reason this generation. A huge point of this generation was supposed to be ease of development and how it is similar it is to developing for the PC. We know how easy it is to down scale on PC games as they give it to us in the options lol.
downscaling makes sense on a pc bc not everybody has the latest and greatest hardware and there is no need to lock framerate bc if the pc is capable of running it it will run smoothly. There is a difference on consoles. The hardware is all identical (amongst the specific brands and types. You lock framerate to keep it running smooth across all consoles. And the launch ps4s and xbone were near identical now its not so much the case with 2 ps4s and 3 xbones. Development on aaa title runs roughly $60m. That means it takes roughly 1m units to break even on a game (this is excluding microtransactions of course). Every extra dollar spent to change builds between different versions is another unit that has to b sold. This isnt about if its too expensive to do, its whether its cost effective. Is the money it costs worth the return. The answer is until we see otherwise, no its not. People that are going to buy a aaa title are going to buy it if it upacales or not. And they are going to buy it for the system they already have. Multuplats dont sell systems. Ms as much as they may want to [inappropriate/removed] about multiplats having marketing deals has to get units into homes and that is going to take 1st party titles to do it. Just like i havent bought a pro yet, most xbone owners arent buying an xbx until there is reason to. 4K adoption helps and we will probably see more pros and xbx's leave the shelf this holiday. But the fact remains developers are going to do what gives them the best bang for their buck. Until they see an install base that makes it worth their wild they are not going to develop for console subsets



What you say is mostly true, but you are ignorning a fairly substantial portion of the userbase that has excess disposable income. The people who buy the latest phone every year. They buy the pro, the X, the 1080GT graphics card. They spend a lot of money and they will absolutely buy a game if it promises to be on the bleeding edge of technology.
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Matts4313


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 15, 2017 4:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Superman(DH23) wrote:
And I'm saying the accusation is blatantly false. It has nothing to do with marketing deals and is about costs and player experience. And the difference between the pro and the X1X isn't all that great either. The X1X is a little more powerful, but it's not leaps and bounds better.


You may say its false, but it is 100% true. You are dead wrong. The destiny team wont even confirm if they will allow the XB version to be in 4k. They are *CLEARLY* downgrading the XB experience.

Secondly, the gap between the PS4 Pro and the XB1X is not 'just a little bit' more powerful. Its literally a whole other PS4 more powerful (PS4 1.8 TF, PS4 Pro 4.2 TF, XB1X 6TF). Sometimes that gap in power doesn't really matter, but in this case the X can litterally do things that the Pro can not - such ask play 4k 60FPS games and 4k Blurays. In the history of all consoles, there has never been one that has had an almost 2TF improvement over its direct competitor.
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Tyty


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 15, 2017 4:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Matts4313 wrote:
Superman(DH23) wrote:
And I'm saying the accusation is blatantly false. It has nothing to do with marketing deals and is about costs and player experience. And the difference between the pro and the X1X isn't all that great either. The X1X is a little more powerful, but it's not leaps and bounds better.


You may say its false, but it is 100% true. You are dead wrong. The destiny team wont even confirm if they will allow the XB version to be in 4k. They are *CLEARLY* downgrading the XB experience.

Secondly, the gap between the PS4 Pro and the XB1X is not 'just a little bit' more powerful. Its literally a whole other PS4 more powerful (PS4 1.8 TF, PS4 Pro 4.2 TF, XB1X 6TF). Sometimes that gap in power doesn't really matter, but in this case the X can litterally do things that the Pro can not - such ask play 4k 60FPS games and 4k Blurays. In the history of all consoles, there has never been one that has had an almost 2TF improvement over its direct competitor.


Still don't have any idea what a terraflop is. Sounds like something a science fiction writer in the 1950's would've come up with
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Tyty


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 15, 2017 4:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'll consider getting a pro or xboxonex in two or three years I think. Will be more affordable I imagine and have more to offer game wise.
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biggio7


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 15, 2017 4:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tyty wrote:
I'll consider getting a pro or xboxonex in two or three years I think. Will be more affordable I imagine and have more to offer game wise.


PS5 will be cheaper and better. Very Happy
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Mossburg


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 15, 2017 4:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

To clarify, guy from Bungie team responded to that article and said that they don't slow performance. Take it for what it's worth, whether true or not this is the expected response. Spencer never pointed to Bungie IIRC, just made a more general statement, and the author of the article used Destiny 2 as a potential example.

Quote:
"We would never hold back game performance on a platform to appease a partner. No partners asked us to either. We optimize for each platform's tech to deliver the best social action game experience we can. Period. All consoles will run at 30fps to deliver D2's AI counts, environment sizes, and # of players. They are all CPU-bound. We are currently evaluating 4K for Xbox One X. It launches after D2 and so we are focused on the launch consoles right now."


The article implied that there is already a finalized or maybe near finalized version of D2 for XBX that will be locked at 30, but according to him they're still "evaluating" 4K for it. Basically saying the author's speculation is meaningless.

Quote:
Sometimes that gap in power doesn't really matter, but in this case the X can litterally do things that the Pro can not - such ask play 4k 60FPS games and 4k Blurays.


I don't think this is for sure yet, and I'd still be surprised if it was true. You might get something close to it on some simpler games, but this won't be a standard. 4K 30 FPS seems realistic though. IMO if they would have went with 60FPS @ 1080p it would win people over more, and it'd be a lot simpler because everyone has the equipment for that, and it would be much easier to see the performance boost.
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Tyty


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 15, 2017 5:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

biggio7 wrote:
Tyty wrote:
I'll consider getting a pro or xboxonex in two or three years I think. Will be more affordable I imagine and have more to offer game wise.


PS5 will be cheaper and better. Very Happy


I hope ps5 doesn't happen for at least like 5 more years. I want to get more use out of my console investments than just a few years
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Matts4313


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 15, 2017 5:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mossburg wrote:


I don't think this is for sure yet, and I'd still be surprised if it was true. You might get something close to it on some simpler games, but this won't be a standard. 4K 30 FPS seems realistic though. IMO if they would have went with 60FPS @ 1080p it would win people over more, and it'd be a lot simpler because everyone has the equipment for that, and it would be much easier to see the performance boost.


They have confirmed multiple times that they have Forza 6, 7, horizon and Halo 5 all running at 4k 60FPS. They even detailed that they were able to port Halo/FZ6 in just a few days. Another article recently explained why they can out perform a similar PC that also has 6TF of performance. The basic answer was standardized hardware allow for much greater fine tuning. That with a PC each one has a different set of variables (processor, ram, graphics card, brand for each one, drivers/software/OS/etc). Went on to say you would spend $1k to build a spec for spec comp on a PC, but probably closer to $1500 on a PC to get the actual performance due to console optimization. ARK developers confirmed this, saying they can do more with a Scorpio than they can with most mid-highend PCs.... including getting 4k at 60FPS.
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Mossburg


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 15, 2017 5:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

^GT5 ran at 60FPS for the most part on the PS3, and Mario Kart 8 did on WiiU. Those games aren't heavy on hardware. I dunno about Halo 5.

All the other technical stuff, that's all hype that they talk up every console. PS3 Cell processor was supposed to change the world. XB1 was supposed to do all this cloud computing to make everything run better. I don't care what anyone says until final products are released and benchmarked. Since the console is $500, I'm more suspect on all this.
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l3lind golfer


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 15, 2017 5:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

There's also been multiple reports that MS's conference was running stuff at 4K and 30 fps or that some was at 60 fps but 1080.

I highly doubt these games are running at true 4k and 60 fps.
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 15, 2017 5:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Native 4K @ 30 is pretty good for $500. 60 would make it the greatest performance per dollar in gaming history.
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