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Top 10 CBs Going Into '17
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HTTRG3Dynasty


Joined: 03 Apr 2012
Posts: 10605
PostPosted: Fri Jun 30, 2017 10:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

TheVillain112 wrote:
A bit surprised to see Janoris Jenkins so low on some lists (and not even on some others). There are a lot of talented corners out there but he seems to be the best at shutting down or at least limiting elite WRs in one-on-one coverage...


It could be because he's only done it at an elite level for a year... He really impressed me last year though. If he can repeat that, he's a top 5 CB IMO.
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HTTRG3Dynasty


Joined: 03 Apr 2012
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 30, 2017 10:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jakuvious wrote:
PFF last year just ruined everyone's opinions of Marcus Peters for years.

He did not have a problem getting beat last year. Or the second half of his rookie year. That was like a 9 game long problem while he started his career. He was targeted 64 times less last year, than the year prior, and still maintained PD and INT numbers near the league best. He continued making plays without having to be over-aggressive to do so.

The Asante Samuel comparison also doesn't hold weight because Peters is a much more complete player. He's a much better tackler and run defender than Samuel was.


I think what holds people back from having Peters as a top 5 guy is that, even though he gets a lot of INTs, he allows so many completions and yards compared to other top guys.

Sherman: 44 catches on 85 targets (52%); 624 yards
Harris Jr: 34 catches on 72 targets (47%); 337 yards
Norman: 44 catches on 88 targets (50%); 589 yards
Jenkins: 37 catches on 81 targets (46%); 425 yards
Rhodes: 33 catches on 79 targets (42%); 384 yards
Talib: 36 catches on 73 targets (49%); 372 yards

Peters is more like Peterson when it comes to completion percentage against, but Peters allows more yards:

Peterson: 43 catches on 74 targets (58%); 539 yards
Peters: 51 catches on 89 targets (57%); 652 yards

I still have Peters in my top 10 though.
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Buckweath


Joined: 28 Sep 2009
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 03, 2017 8:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

AkronsWitness wrote:
Chiefer wrote:
TENINCH wrote:
l3lind golfer wrote:
I don't really have a full list of guys, but I'd put Marcus Peters #1.


I'll take Harris, Rhodes, and Peterson over him. Kid still gives up too many yards.
they don't make anywhere near the same plays though.

Well Peterson is kinda close.


Peters is like prime Asante Samuel in the fact that he goes for the killshot far too often and gets housed on double moves and in susceptible to giving up big plays.

When Peters learns to be a shutdown corner and to stay at home with his man rather than gamble on undercutting he will be in the top 5.

This is like Talib early in his career as well. He then figured out to stay attached to him man instead of trying to jump everything and he has been a top 5 DB since leaving the Bucs


Yeah I don't care if you don't have Peters in your top 5 but one can clearly tell you haven't been watching Marcus Peters lately. He has been great in coverage.
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scrimmage


Joined: 16 Jul 2010
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Location: NJ
PostPosted: Mon Jul 03, 2017 12:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

TheVillain112 wrote:
A bit surprised to see Janoris Jenkins so low on some lists (and not even on some others). There are a lot of talented corners out there but he seems to be the best at shutting down or at least limiting elite WRs in one-on-one coverage...

Dude completely emasculated Dez Bryant last year
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Jakuvious


Joined: 06 Sep 2010
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 03, 2017 12:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

HTTRG3Dynasty wrote:
Jakuvious wrote:
PFF last year just ruined everyone's opinions of Marcus Peters for years.

He did not have a problem getting beat last year. Or the second half of his rookie year. That was like a 9 game long problem while he started his career. He was targeted 64 times less last year, than the year prior, and still maintained PD and INT numbers near the league best. He continued making plays without having to be over-aggressive to do so.

The Asante Samuel comparison also doesn't hold weight because Peters is a much more complete player. He's a much better tackler and run defender than Samuel was.


I think what holds people back from having Peters as a top 5 guy is that, even though he gets a lot of INTs, he allows so many completions and yards compared to other top guys.

Sherman: 44 catches on 85 targets (52%); 624 yards
Harris Jr: 34 catches on 72 targets (47%); 337 yards
Norman: 44 catches on 88 targets (50%); 589 yards
Jenkins: 37 catches on 81 targets (46%); 425 yards
Rhodes: 33 catches on 79 targets (42%); 384 yards
Talib: 36 catches on 73 targets (49%); 372 yards

Peters is more like Peterson when it comes to completion percentage against, but Peters allows more yards:

Peterson: 43 catches on 74 targets (58%); 539 yards
Peters: 51 catches on 89 targets (57%); 652 yards

I still have Peters in my top 10 though.


We had the worst pass rush of the above teams last year, as well as facing the 2nd most pass attempts of the relevant teams (the Giants were passed on more.) Those two things will combine to increase the attempts against, and the quality of the attempts against. And even then, in terms of YPA and YPC he's still in line with multiple names up there (Peterson, Sherman, and Norman.)

Not to mention the normal slew of issues with what I assume are PFF's coverage statistics.

But still, I'm fine if someone has Peters outside of a top 5. None of us actually know what we're doing in making a ranking of a position like this. But it's the narrative about Peters that is false. His aggressiveness was more calculated last year. He was not getting burned deep, nor was he getting attacked regularly. If you think Rhodes or Norman or Harris just covered better last year, that's all fine. I didn't watch enough of half these guys to dispute. It's just the, Peters gets burned because he bites on double moves, logic, that is not accurate, and I know it's not, so I will dispute that whenever I see it.
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HTTRG3Dynasty


Joined: 03 Apr 2012
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 03, 2017 1:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jakuvious wrote:
HTTRG3Dynasty wrote:
Jakuvious wrote:
PFF last year just ruined everyone's opinions of Marcus Peters for years.

He did not have a problem getting beat last year. Or the second half of his rookie year. That was like a 9 game long problem while he started his career. He was targeted 64 times less last year, than the year prior, and still maintained PD and INT numbers near the league best. He continued making plays without having to be over-aggressive to do so.

The Asante Samuel comparison also doesn't hold weight because Peters is a much more complete player. He's a much better tackler and run defender than Samuel was.


I think what holds people back from having Peters as a top 5 guy is that, even though he gets a lot of INTs, he allows so many completions and yards compared to other top guys.

Sherman: 44 catches on 85 targets (52%); 624 yards
Harris Jr: 34 catches on 72 targets (47%); 337 yards
Norman: 44 catches on 88 targets (50%); 589 yards
Jenkins: 37 catches on 81 targets (46%); 425 yards
Rhodes: 33 catches on 79 targets (42%); 384 yards
Talib: 36 catches on 73 targets (49%); 372 yards

Peters is more like Peterson when it comes to completion percentage against, but Peters allows more yards:

Peterson: 43 catches on 74 targets (58%); 539 yards
Peters: 51 catches on 89 targets (57%); 652 yards

I still have Peters in my top 10 though.


We had the worst pass rush of the above teams last year, as well as facing the 2nd most pass attempts of the relevant teams (the Giants were passed on more.) Those two things will combine to increase the attempts against, and the quality of the attempts against. And even then, in terms of YPA and YPC he's still in line with multiple names up there (Peterson, Sherman, and Norman.)

Not to mention the normal slew of issues with what I assume are PFF's coverage statistics.


Nah, I got these from NFL.com.

Not really sure how his 7.33 YPA lines up with Norman's 6.69 YPA, but I agree with most of the rest of your post. Though, if we want to argue who has the worst defense around him (not just pass rush) out of all those guys, it's easily Norman.
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Jakuvious


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 03, 2017 1:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

HTTRG3Dynasty wrote:
Jakuvious wrote:
HTTRG3Dynasty wrote:
Jakuvious wrote:
PFF last year just ruined everyone's opinions of Marcus Peters for years.

He did not have a problem getting beat last year. Or the second half of his rookie year. That was like a 9 game long problem while he started his career. He was targeted 64 times less last year, than the year prior, and still maintained PD and INT numbers near the league best. He continued making plays without having to be over-aggressive to do so.

The Asante Samuel comparison also doesn't hold weight because Peters is a much more complete player. He's a much better tackler and run defender than Samuel was.


I think what holds people back from having Peters as a top 5 guy is that, even though he gets a lot of INTs, he allows so many completions and yards compared to other top guys.

Sherman: 44 catches on 85 targets (52%); 624 yards
Harris Jr: 34 catches on 72 targets (47%); 337 yards
Norman: 44 catches on 88 targets (50%); 589 yards
Jenkins: 37 catches on 81 targets (46%); 425 yards
Rhodes: 33 catches on 79 targets (42%); 384 yards
Talib: 36 catches on 73 targets (49%); 372 yards

Peters is more like Peterson when it comes to completion percentage against, but Peters allows more yards:

Peterson: 43 catches on 74 targets (58%); 539 yards
Peters: 51 catches on 89 targets (57%); 652 yards

I still have Peters in my top 10 though.


We had the worst pass rush of the above teams last year, as well as facing the 2nd most pass attempts of the relevant teams (the Giants were passed on more.) Those two things will combine to increase the attempts against, and the quality of the attempts against. And even then, in terms of YPA and YPC he's still in line with multiple names up there (Peterson, Sherman, and Norman.)

Not to mention the normal slew of issues with what I assume are PFF's coverage statistics.


Nah, I got these from NFL.com.

Not really sure how his 7.33 YPA lines up with Norman's 6.69 YPA, but I agree with most of the rest of your post. Though, if we want to argue who has the worst defense around him (not just pass rush) out of all those guys, it's easily Norman.


I'd be willing to bet NFL.com got those numbers from PFF. They don't track or post that statistic themselves. Unless something changed really recently.

I should've said and/or, not just and. Peters was better in YPC, but not YPA.
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reckless123


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 03, 2017 4:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

From what I've seen with Peters, and it's why the completion % can be misleading, they play him off quite a great deal so he's giving up more on the underneath stuff. It's why receivers run double moves on him because he's on the top of the route and his eyes are always on the QB. I've always felt he is a better press corner than off man corner.
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BroncoBruin


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 03, 2017 4:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

1. Chris Harris Jr.
2. Patrick Peterson
3. Aqib Talib
4. Marcus Peters
5. Xavier Rhodes
6. Janoris Jenkins
7. Josh Norman
8. Richard Sherman
9. Desmond Trufant
10. Jalen Ramsey

HM: Jason Verrett, Dominique Rodgers-Cromartie, Darius Slay
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Jakuvious


Joined: 06 Sep 2010
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 03, 2017 4:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

reckless123 wrote:
From what I've seen with Peters, and it's why the completion % can be misleading, they play him off quite a great deal so he's giving up more on the underneath stuff. It's why receivers run double moves on him because he's on the top of the route and his eyes are always on the QB. I've always felt he is a better press corner than off man corner.


Yeah, we tend to play our perimeter corners in off coverage between the 25s or so, with our slot guys almost always in press, and then our outside corners tighten up the shorter the field gets.

Our defense is really predicated around the idea of picking our spots. We just kind of let the offense do their thing until we wind up with a situation that allows us to become aggressive. Short yardage situations, 2nd or 3rd and long, the red zone, etc. We'll basically never go aggressive on a 1st and 10 in the middle of the field.
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Chiefer


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 03, 2017 6:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

reckless123 wrote:
From what I've seen with Peters, and it's why the completion % can be misleading, they play him off quite a great deal so he's giving up more on the underneath stuff. It's why receivers run double moves on him because he's on the top of the route and his eyes are always on the QB. I've always felt he is a better press corner than off man corner.
now could you let our coaches in on this?
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reckless123


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 04, 2017 4:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Chiefer wrote:
reckless123 wrote:
From what I've seen with Peters, and it's why the completion % can be misleading, they play him off quite a great deal so he's giving up more on the underneath stuff. It's why receivers run double moves on him because he's on the top of the route and his eyes are always on the QB. I've always felt he is a better press corner than off man corner.
now could you let our coaches in on this?


It is strange though. At Washington he wasn't used like this. I guess that he has shown he can be darn good with this style shows how talented he is. It makes him scheme versatile but it's just not the best use of his abilities.
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RaidersAreOne


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 04, 2017 7:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Peters is an awesome CB who I am extremely jealous of coming from a divisional rival.
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persiandud


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 05, 2017 6:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wow, ya'll are overrating Patrick Peterson
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patsfan25


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 06, 2017 12:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

persiandud wrote:
Wow, ya'll are overrating Patrick Peterson


Peterson was perennially overrated his first few seasons in the league, but he has been the best true shutdown Corner in the NFL that last two seasons. He's making his due right now.
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