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Calvin Johnson not happy with how things ended
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FootballPhreak


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 11, 2017 9:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

NightTrainLane wrote:
What would you not be upset trading Calvin for seeing he won't play for you guys again?

5th rd pick?

After running his mouth publicly, I would not give him any opportunity without a public apology. 3 full years worth of drafts would not be enough.
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NightTrainLane


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 12, 2017 12:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

FootballPhreak wrote:
NightTrainLane wrote:
What would you not be upset trading Calvin for seeing he won't play for you guys again?

5th rd pick?

After running his mouth publicly, I would not give him any opportunity without a public apology. 3 full years worth of drafts would not be enough.


Ok, so that is the emotional answer to what would satisfy you.

Now what do you think the team would give him up for?
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nagahide13


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 12, 2017 3:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

NightTrainLane wrote:
FootballPhreak wrote:
NightTrainLane wrote:
What would you not be upset trading Calvin for seeing he won't play for you guys again?

5th rd pick?

After running his mouth publicly, I would not give him any opportunity without a public apology. 3 full years worth of drafts would not be enough.


Ok, so that is the emotional answer to what would satisfy you.

Now what do you think the team would give him up for?


Honestly I don't think they would trade him either. Play for us or stay retired. Calvin created this entire situation by signing his extension. It seems as though the front office asked him for money back so as not to set a precedent... I don't see them going back on it now.

Personally I'd be fine with it, however. I like Calvin and I like the Raiders. It's an okay fit, and I think he'd provide value there.
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FootballPhreak


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 12, 2017 8:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

NightTrainLane wrote:
FootballPhreak wrote:
NightTrainLane wrote:
What would you not be upset trading Calvin for seeing he won't play for you guys again?

5th rd pick?

After running his mouth publicly, I would not give him any opportunity without a public apology. 3 full years worth of drafts would not be enough.


Ok, so that is the emotional answer to what would satisfy you.

Now what do you think the team would give him up for?

Principle, not emotion. And my guess is the team will set pretty much the same.
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Detroitlions703


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 12, 2017 11:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I wish we could just trade him for a 2nd round pick to the Falcons and they could go on and win the superbowl and hed play for his home squad and we'd stop having to here how horrible it is for him.
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X_Factor_40


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 12, 2017 11:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

FootballPhreak wrote:
NightTrainLane wrote:
FootballPhreak wrote:
NightTrainLane wrote:
What would you not be upset trading Calvin for seeing he won't play for you guys again?

5th rd pick?

After running his mouth publicly, I would not give him any opportunity without a public apology. 3 full years worth of drafts would not be enough.


Ok, so that is the emotional answer to what would satisfy you.

Now what do you think the team would give him up for?

Principle, not emotion. And my guess is the team will set pretty much the same.


What would Belichick do? I don't think he'd just trade his contract after what Calvin has been spouting off lately. I don't think the organization even responds to this, and I don't see Quinn moving him. He's retired. If he wanted to be traded, he had the opportunity to force a deal. I just don't see it happening.
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NightTrainLane


Joined: 22 Oct 2015
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Location: On the wall defending Reggie from all blasphemous heretics!
PostPosted: Wed Jul 12, 2017 1:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

X_Factor_40 wrote:
FootballPhreak wrote:
NightTrainLane wrote:
FootballPhreak wrote:
NightTrainLane wrote:
What would you not be upset trading Calvin for seeing he won't play for you guys again?

5th rd pick?

After running his mouth publicly, I would not give him any opportunity without a public apology. 3 full years worth of drafts would not be enough.


Ok, so that is the emotional answer to what would satisfy you.

Now what do you think the team would give him up for?

Principle, not emotion. And my guess is the team will set pretty much the same.


What would Belichick do? I don't think he'd just trade his contract after what Calvin has been spouting off lately. I don't think the organization even responds to this, and I don't see Quinn moving him. He's retired. If he wanted to be traded, he had the opportunity to force a deal. I just don't see it happening.


Belichick would get value to make his team better. Period.

The suggestion that the other poster made that he would have to give a public apology is pretty crazy to me. Step back and look at what he actually said. Not discounting the feeling that went along with him leaving the team because I'm die hard Raiders fan and if CWood would have left in this way, his name would have soured in my mouth too but really it's not like he said f the city on the way out.

I think a smart gm of a 9-7 team sees the value of a mid rd draft pick if the bridge is burned.
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Sllim Pickens


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 12, 2017 1:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I am not sure of the cap ramifications if he came back but I know he was pretty much untradeable before retiring because of the dead money it would cause. If the contract sits on hold for two yeas and picks up where it left off, then he likely will not be able to be traded and a mid round pick sure as heck would not be worth the dead cap.

I also don't think any bridges are burned. I agree that what he said is not overly nice for the Lions but it also isn't overly inaccurate. If he wanted to come back because he saw the way the team was trending I am sure his teammates and fans would be glad to have him back out there. It sucks he opened his mouth because there really is no reason to at this point, unless he is planning to come back, but I really don't see it happening.
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FootballPhreak


Joined: 09 Oct 2007
Posts: 36589
Location: Clio, MI
PostPosted: Wed Jul 12, 2017 2:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

NightTrainLane wrote:
X_Factor_40 wrote:
FootballPhreak wrote:
NightTrainLane wrote:
FootballPhreak wrote:
NightTrainLane wrote:
What would you not be upset trading Calvin for seeing he won't play for you guys again?

5th rd pick?

After running his mouth publicly, I would not give him any opportunity without a public apology. 3 full years worth of drafts would not be enough.


Ok, so that is the emotional answer to what would satisfy you.

Now what do you think the team would give him up for?

Principle, not emotion. And my guess is the team will set pretty much the same.


What would Belichick do? I don't think he'd just trade his contract after what Calvin has been spouting off lately. I don't think the organization even responds to this, and I don't see Quinn moving him. He's retired. If he wanted to be traded, he had the opportunity to force a deal. I just don't see it happening.


Belichick would get value to make his team better. Period.

The suggestion that the other poster made that he would have to give a public apology is pretty crazy to me. Step back and look at what he actually said. Not discounting the feeling that went along with him leaving the team because I'm die hard Raiders fan and if CWood would have left in this way, his name would have soured in my mouth too but really it's not like he said f the city on the way out.

I think a smart gm of a 9-7 team sees the value of a mid rd draft pick if the bridge is burned.

A smart GM does good business. Giving into a crying baby is not good business. In the long run your team is better because of good business practices.

Belichek would make him rot. Period.
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If that doesn't concern you, I don't know what would...a missing head?
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NightTrainLane


Joined: 22 Oct 2015
Posts: 3184
Location: On the wall defending Reggie from all blasphemous heretics!
PostPosted: Wed Jul 12, 2017 3:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

FootballPhreak wrote:
NightTrainLane wrote:
X_Factor_40 wrote:
FootballPhreak wrote:
NightTrainLane wrote:
FootballPhreak wrote:
NightTrainLane wrote:
What would you not be upset trading Calvin for seeing he won't play for you guys again?

5th rd pick?

After running his mouth publicly, I would not give him any opportunity without a public apology. 3 full years worth of drafts would not be enough.


Ok, so that is the emotional answer to what would satisfy you.

Now what do you think the team would give him up for?

Principle, not emotion. And my guess is the team will set pretty much the same.


What would Belichick do? I don't think he'd just trade his contract after what Calvin has been spouting off lately. I don't think the organization even responds to this, and I don't see Quinn moving him. He's retired. If he wanted to be traded, he had the opportunity to force a deal. I just don't see it happening.


Belichick would get value to make his team better. Period.

The suggestion that the other poster made that he would have to give a public apology is pretty crazy to me. Step back and look at what he actually said. Not discounting the feeling that went along with him leaving the team because I'm die hard Raiders fan and if CWood would have left in this way, his name would have soured in my mouth too but really it's not like he said f the city on the way out.

I think a smart gm of a 9-7 team sees the value of a mid rd draft pick if the bridge is burned.

A smart GM does good business. Giving into a crying baby is not good business. In the long run your team is better because of good business practices.

Belichek would make him rot. Period.


The fact that you are calling him a crybaby invalidates your argument to some extent. Showing that emotion is ruling your responses and decisions and not the business reality. In a business sense, I see how not setting the precedent of caving to a player's demand would be in the teams interest but I also see the damage it did to the legacy of the franchise. The two greatest Lion's to ever put on the colors are now persona non grata for roughly the same reasons.

Belichick probably would have traded Calvin a year before the retirement for a high pick or, better yet, wouldn't have let his defense fall off like a leper's limb from 2014 to 2015 to cause the rift in the first place. But these are hypothetical. Neither of us know for sure.
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nagahide13


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 12, 2017 3:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

NightTrainLane wrote:
The two greatest Lion's to ever put on the colors are now persona non grata for roughly the same reasons.


That's simply not true. I understand that on the surface it may appear that way, but just look at the two situations more closely. Barry actually retired because of how bad the Lions were, and he was justified in doing so, though we all would have liked a little more warning. Calvin told people he was retiring after an 11-5 season.

The fact of the matter is that despite their history, the current Lions team just isn't nearly bad enough to justifiably give up on in that regard. Again, he said he was going to retire after an 11-5 season. The year after he retired, they went 9-7 with Calvin's dead contract around their necks. That should be evidence enough. He's playing off public perception and trying to force Detroit's hand.
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NightTrainLane


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 12, 2017 3:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

nagahide13 wrote:
NightTrainLane wrote:
The two greatest Lion's to ever put on the colors are now persona non grata for roughly the same reasons.


That's simply not true. I understand that on the surface it may appear that way, but just look at the two situations more closely. Barry actually retired because of how bad the Lions were, and he was justified in doing so, though we all would have liked a little more warning. Calvin told people he was retiring after an 11-5 season.

The fact of the matter is that despite their history, the current Lions team just isn't nearly bad enough to justifiably give up on in that regard. Again, he said he was going to retire after an 11-5 season. The year after he retired, they went 9-7 with Calvin's dead contract around their necks. That should be evidence enough. He's playing off public perception and trying to force Detroit's hand.


Good point. Mine was an outsiders perspective that isn't nearly as informed but I stand by the other areas of my statement.
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NightTrainLane


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 12, 2017 3:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sllim Pickens wrote:
I am not sure of the cap ramifications if he came back but I know he was pretty much untradeable before retiring because of the dead money it would cause. If the contract sits on hold for two yeas and picks up where it left off, then he likely will not be able to be traded and a mid round pick sure as heck would not be worth the dead cap.

I also don't think any bridges are burned. I agree that what he said is not overly nice for the Lions but it also isn't overly inaccurate. If he wanted to come back because he saw the way the team was trending I am sure his teammates and fans would be glad to have him back out there. It sucks he opened his mouth because there really is no reason to at this point, unless he is planning to come back, but I really don't see it happening.


I think the recent words are a combo of sending out feelers into the Lion's FO and fans reaction to potentially backing off of the hard stance and moving him (either by trade or release) and reporters asking him questions after he showed up at our mini camp.

But in terms of the contract and dead money, they could renegotiate it, either before or after a trade, to limit or eliminate the dead money. Many ways to get around that. I think the reason he showed up at our camp is because of how we worked with Seattle on the Lynch deal. I know the finances are heftier with CJ but the point still stands.
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FootballPhreak


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 12, 2017 6:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

NightTrainLane wrote:
FootballPhreak wrote:
NightTrainLane wrote:
X_Factor_40 wrote:
FootballPhreak wrote:
NightTrainLane wrote:
FootballPhreak wrote:
NightTrainLane wrote:
What would you not be upset trading Calvin for seeing he won't play for you guys again?

5th rd pick?

After running his mouth publicly, I would not give him any opportunity without a public apology. 3 full years worth of drafts would not be enough.


Ok, so that is the emotional answer to what would satisfy you.

Now what do you think the team would give him up for?

Principle, not emotion. And my guess is the team will set pretty much the same.


What would Belichick do? I don't think he'd just trade his contract after what Calvin has been spouting off lately. I don't think the organization even responds to this, and I don't see Quinn moving him. He's retired. If he wanted to be traded, he had the opportunity to force a deal. I just don't see it happening.


Belichick would get value to make his team better. Period.

The suggestion that the other poster made that he would have to give a public apology is pretty crazy to me. Step back and look at what he actually said. Not discounting the feeling that went along with him leaving the team because I'm die hard Raiders fan and if CWood would have left in this way, his name would have soured in my mouth too but really it's not like he said f the city on the way out.

I think a smart gm of a 9-7 team sees the value of a mid rd draft pick if the bridge is burned.

A smart GM does good business. Giving into a crying baby is not good business. In the long run your team is better because of good business practices.

Belichek would make him rot. Period.


The fact that you are calling him a crybaby invalidates your argument to some extent. Showing that emotion is ruling your responses and decisions and not the business reality. In a business sense, I see how not setting the precedent of caving to a player's demand would be in the teams interest but I also see the damage it did to the legacy of the franchise. The two greatest Lion's to ever put on the colors are now persona non grata for roughly the same reasons.

Belichick probably would have traded Calvin a year before the retirement for a high pick or, better yet, wouldn't have let his defense fall off like a leper's limb from 2014 to 2015 to cause the rift in the first place. But these are hypothetical. Neither of us know for sure.

Not sure what word you would like to make sure it doesn't show emotion. Go ahead and insert it. Playing semantics with words does not in any way invalidate my statement.

And the end statement was all I would have hoped for in the beginning. But absolute statements like "For certain", "Guaranteed", and "Period" show an unwillingness to accept any realities other than the preconceived one in your own mind. So I fed the exact same back.

It is absolutely my opinion in a case such as this, Belichek would not trade him for anything once he opened his mouth. BB is definitely a statement type of person. But the world will never know because no matter how similar, there will never be the same precise situation again.
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NightTrainLane


Joined: 22 Oct 2015
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Location: On the wall defending Reggie from all blasphemous heretics!
PostPosted: Fri Jul 14, 2017 2:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

FootballPhreak wrote:
NightTrainLane wrote:
FootballPhreak wrote:
NightTrainLane wrote:
X_Factor_40 wrote:
FootballPhreak wrote:
NightTrainLane wrote:
FootballPhreak wrote:
NightTrainLane wrote:
What would you not be upset trading Calvin for seeing he won't play for you guys again?

5th rd pick?

After running his mouth publicly, I would not give him any opportunity without a public apology. 3 full years worth of drafts would not be enough.


Ok, so that is the emotional answer to what would satisfy you.

Now what do you think the team would give him up for?

Principle, not emotion. And my guess is the team will set pretty much the same.


What would Belichick do? I don't think he'd just trade his contract after what Calvin has been spouting off lately. I don't think the organization even responds to this, and I don't see Quinn moving him. He's retired. If he wanted to be traded, he had the opportunity to force a deal. I just don't see it happening.


Belichick would get value to make his team better. Period.

The suggestion that the other poster made that he would have to give a public apology is pretty crazy to me. Step back and look at what he actually said. Not discounting the feeling that went along with him leaving the team because I'm die hard Raiders fan and if CWood would have left in this way, his name would have soured in my mouth too but really it's not like he said f the city on the way out.

I think a smart gm of a 9-7 team sees the value of a mid rd draft pick if the bridge is burned.

A smart GM does good business. Giving into a crying baby is not good business. In the long run your team is better because of good business practices.

Belichek would make him rot. Period.


The fact that you are calling him a crybaby invalidates your argument to some extent. Showing that emotion is ruling your responses and decisions and not the business reality. In a business sense, I see how not setting the precedent of caving to a player's demand would be in the teams interest but I also see the damage it did to the legacy of the franchise. The two greatest Lion's to ever put on the colors are now persona non grata for roughly the same reasons.

Belichick probably would have traded Calvin a year before the retirement for a high pick or, better yet, wouldn't have let his defense fall off like a leper's limb from 2014 to 2015 to cause the rift in the first place. But these are hypothetical. Neither of us know for sure.

Not sure what word you would like to make sure it doesn't show emotion. Go ahead and insert it. Playing semantics with words does not in any way invalidate my statement.

And the end statement was all I would have hoped for in the beginning. But absolute statements like "For certain", "Guaranteed", and "Period" show an unwillingness to accept any realities other than the preconceived one in your own mind. So I fed the exact same back.

It is absolutely my opinion in a case such as this, Belichek would not trade him for anything once he opened his mouth. BB is definitely a statement type of person. But the world will never know because no matter how similar, there will never be the same precise situation again.


I see your point and your side of the issue.

When it comes down to it I think Megatron has just as much leverage as the team does. If he were to un-retire the team would have a $21mil cap hit land on the books when they only have 5 mil in space. They would have little choice but to release or trade him.
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