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Calvin Johnson not happy with how things ended
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Louis Friend


Joined: 07 Apr 2010
Posts: 11101
Location: Detroit, Michigan
PostPosted: Mon May 22, 2017 6:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

IDOG_det wrote:
Louis Friend wrote:
IDOG_det wrote:
Louis Friend wrote:
IDOG_det wrote:
Louis Friend wrote:
Why shouldn't he pay back some of the signing bonus? He signed a 7 year extension and retires 2 years in. I loved him as a Lion, and wish him well moving forward, but is he seriously complaining about that? Especially when he didn't inform the team formally that he was even retiring until the offseason he did so. He might have divulged that info to Stafford, but the front office was waiting around for what he was going to do. Rolling Eyes
No. In fact, he isn't complaining about anything.

Oh, and the front office told him to take his time with a decision because they knew he was ready to retire. They figured he might not want to retire if he thought about it more, and they were wrong. He didn't screw them, they did that to themselves.


How did the Lions screw themselves? Laughing

Calvin said himself that he told Stafford he was planning on retiring and that was it. He told Matthew before his final season started. The organization was unaware, according to Calvin himself. Despite that, they waited for his response in the offseason and he took his sweet time to officially retire. After doing so, the Lions were within their rights to recoup the $3.2 million left on his signing bonus from the extension he signed. he paid 10% of that back and they didn't demand the rest, despite him quitting 2 years into a 7 year extension, leaving them with an almost $13 million dead cap hit.
They told him to do that. I will repeat this for you again. The Detroit Lions told Calvin Johnson to take his time with his decision to retire. Matthew Stafford was not the only person that knew, even fans knew that there was a very strong possibility he would retire. If that's your issue, then yes, they screwed themselves. They brought the timing of that decision upon themselves. They knew he wanted retire so they told him to take longer to think about it with the hope that he would change his mind. He gave them a final decision when they wanted a decision from him. They didn't want a decision early from him because they knew at that point he was set on retiring. They hoped some time would change his mind and clearly it didn't. How else do I have to explain this for you to understand it?

I don't give a damn about the contract, the organization made fools of themselves for making a big deal over $320,000. They [inappropriate/removed] away that kind of money on camp bodies, UDFA's, and other garbage low end players every year. They absolutely could have afforded to [inappropriate/removed] away another $320,000 to maintain a good relationship with the 2nd most important player in the history of the franchise.


I can appreciate your version of things. That doesn't change the fact the organization was entitled to a prorated portion of his bonus since he didn't fulfill his obligation for it. Why should they have to [inappropriate/removed] the money while still taking a $13 million dead cap hit for a player who negotiated a 7 year extension and quit two years in?

January 6th 2016: Rumors that the Lions aren't planning on honoring the remainder of Calvin Johnson's contract. They might trade him, cut him, or use a trade/cut as leverage for a re-negotiation
January 31st 2016: The idea of Calvin Johnson contemplating retirement is completely out in the open. Anyone who has the ability to read now knows that Calvin Johnson is likely to retire, and at a minimum is strongly considering it.
Janurary 31st, 2016: Adam Schefter reports that Calvin Johnson told the Lions that he planned to retire. Jim Caldwell told Calvin Johnson to take his time with his decision, and Calvin Johnson, out of respect for Caldwell, put off making an official announcement of his retirement.
February 2nd, 2016: Tim Twentyman evaluates how Calvin Johnson's retirement would impact the Lions cap situation. "Johnsonís total cap hit is $24,008,000, so the Lions will save just under $11.1 million towards the 2016 cap if he retires. If the team tries to recover the final $3.2 million in bonus money and is successful, the cap savings could potentially increase to a little under $14.3 million. But itís also possible the team doesn't see that savings until the 2017 cap. If Johnson retires, heís leaving a total of $67.7 million in base salary on the table from 2016-20."
February 24th, 2016: Lions not rushing Calvin Johnson in his decision, clearly know that he is contemplating retirement. "That's just the decision we've made internally, to not put a deadline on Calvin," Lions general manager Bob Quinn said Wednesday at the NFL combine. "So that's something that we've talked about -- myself, coach (Jim) Caldwell, Rod Wood. That's just the way we're going to go about business, in terms of what Calvin's decision may or may not be."
March 8th, 2016: Calvin Johnson officially retires


It isn't "my version" of things. It's called "reality". Also, Calvin signed his 7 year contract in 2012. He retired in 2016. He played out 4 of the 7 years of his contract, not 2. If you're going to make a stupid argument, at least get some of your facts right.


Rumors=reality? So Calvin telling the media that he told Stafford at the beginning of 2015 season about his retirement and then Calvin "mulling" over his decision from "rumors" two months before he officially files paperwork is not the same thing as the Lions organization knowing he would retire.

Also, if you want to get facts correct, it was an 8 year deal, 7 year extension. 2012 was the final year of his original contract. He didn't play in 2016, so that year does not count either. So technically it would be 3 years into an 7 year extension or 8 year deal. Or two years from when he the first year of the extension and when he told Stafford he was retiring. You know, stupid arguments should be factual.

http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/7685419/calvin-johnson-signs-7-year-extension-detroit-lions

Why are you so angry? Do you need a snickers? Are a Johnson family member? Wink
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Louis Friend


Joined: 07 Apr 2010
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PostPosted: Mon May 22, 2017 6:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sllim Pickens wrote:
Louis Friend wrote:
CutParisLenon wrote:
You'd have to believe there is something else going on behind the scenes. This is probably more to do with the painkiller/concussion issue.


Quote:
"Guys get concussions, they don't tell the coaches," Johnson said Saturday, according to the Detroit Free-Press. "It happens. I don't tell the coach sometimes cause I know I got a job to do. The team needs me out there on the field. And sometimes you allow that to jeopardize yourself, but that's just the nature of the world."

So had Johnson ever concealed a concussion from Lions team doctors?
"Of course," he said. "They're going to dispute that, but anytime you black out, anytime you hit the ground and everything is stars and stuff, any time your brain hits your skull, that's a concussion. No matter how severe it is, it's a concussion. Now granted, some people get nausea. That's a severe concussion when you get hit like that and you get nausea and stuff like that. But if you play football long enough [you're going to have concussions]."


If this is about concussions, Calvin admitted that he lied to the team and covered it up.

I loved Calvin as a Lion, and I wish him a long healthy life after football.

I just don't understand how the Lions are the bad guys here. What did they do wrong? Made him the highest paid WR? Wanted him to keep playing? Let him keep 90% of the signing bonus they were entitled to? Released his retirement statement for him because he doesn't like the spotlight? Never spoke a bad word about him either during nor after his playing career? Confused

And what free agents have the Lions missed out on because two of their star players retired after a decade with the team?!? Laughing


First I would say if there is anything they did to him, I am assuming it is not public. They simply could have told him to go screw himself when he retired and ignored all phone calls/blocked him from the facilities. The fact is nobody knows but them.

As for free agents, I have always thought that we have not been an ideal landing pot hence why we rarely sign the big name and have struggled to keep some of the stars we do have. Again it would be all speculation but I wouldn't doubt that word would get out around the league if a team was bad to a star player. It may not be the only factor deterring people, but it sure as heck would be a factor if they are close on two spots.

This team has been horribly managed forever. I have no trouble believing the Lions once again screwed up and treated a legend like crap when they left.


Quote:
"I mean, it's simple," he said. "It's simple. It's easy when you think about it."


If it's easy for people to figure out if they think about it, I'm doubting it was something behind closed doors. Publicly, the team has never said an ill word of him.
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detroitroar


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PostPosted: Tue May 23, 2017 10:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

If he was expecting something unprecedented, I get the Lions view, but it
seems to be common practice to simply let a player of his caliber keep what
amounts to chump change for the Lions. I'd imagine his agent instigated the
situation as well.
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IDOG_det


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PostPosted: Tue May 23, 2017 11:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Louis Friend wrote:
IDOG_det wrote:
Louis Friend wrote:
IDOG_det wrote:
Louis Friend wrote:
IDOG_det wrote:
Louis Friend wrote:
Why shouldn't he pay back some of the signing bonus? He signed a 7 year extension and retires 2 years in. I loved him as a Lion, and wish him well moving forward, but is he seriously complaining about that? Especially when he didn't inform the team formally that he was even retiring until the offseason he did so. He might have divulged that info to Stafford, but the front office was waiting around for what he was going to do. Rolling Eyes
No. In fact, he isn't complaining about anything.

Oh, and the front office told him to take his time with a decision because they knew he was ready to retire. They figured he might not want to retire if he thought about it more, and they were wrong. He didn't screw them, they did that to themselves.


How did the Lions screw themselves? Laughing

Calvin said himself that he told Stafford he was planning on retiring and that was it. He told Matthew before his final season started. The organization was unaware, according to Calvin himself. Despite that, they waited for his response in the offseason and he took his sweet time to officially retire. After doing so, the Lions were within their rights to recoup the $3.2 million left on his signing bonus from the extension he signed. he paid 10% of that back and they didn't demand the rest, despite him quitting 2 years into a 7 year extension, leaving them with an almost $13 million dead cap hit.
They told him to do that. I will repeat this for you again. The Detroit Lions told Calvin Johnson to take his time with his decision to retire. Matthew Stafford was not the only person that knew, even fans knew that there was a very strong possibility he would retire. If that's your issue, then yes, they screwed themselves. They brought the timing of that decision upon themselves. They knew he wanted retire so they told him to take longer to think about it with the hope that he would change his mind. He gave them a final decision when they wanted a decision from him. They didn't want a decision early from him because they knew at that point he was set on retiring. They hoped some time would change his mind and clearly it didn't. How else do I have to explain this for you to understand it?

I don't give a damn about the contract, the organization made fools of themselves for making a big deal over $320,000. They [inappropriate/removed] away that kind of money on camp bodies, UDFA's, and other garbage low end players every year. They absolutely could have afforded to [inappropriate/removed] away another $320,000 to maintain a good relationship with the 2nd most important player in the history of the franchise.


I can appreciate your version of things. That doesn't change the fact the organization was entitled to a prorated portion of his bonus since he didn't fulfill his obligation for it. Why should they have to [inappropriate/removed] the money while still taking a $13 million dead cap hit for a player who negotiated a 7 year extension and quit two years in?

January 6th 2016: Rumors that the Lions aren't planning on honoring the remainder of Calvin Johnson's contract. They might trade him, cut him, or use a trade/cut as leverage for a re-negotiation
January 31st 2016: The idea of Calvin Johnson contemplating retirement is completely out in the open. Anyone who has the ability to read now knows that Calvin Johnson is likely to retire, and at a minimum is strongly considering it.
Janurary 31st, 2016: Adam Schefter reports that Calvin Johnson told the Lions that he planned to retire. Jim Caldwell told Calvin Johnson to take his time with his decision, and Calvin Johnson, out of respect for Caldwell, put off making an official announcement of his retirement.
February 2nd, 2016: Tim Twentyman evaluates how Calvin Johnson's retirement would impact the Lions cap situation. "Johnsonís total cap hit is $24,008,000, so the Lions will save just under $11.1 million towards the 2016 cap if he retires. If the team tries to recover the final $3.2 million in bonus money and is successful, the cap savings could potentially increase to a little under $14.3 million. But itís also possible the team doesn't see that savings until the 2017 cap. If Johnson retires, heís leaving a total of $67.7 million in base salary on the table from 2016-20."
February 24th, 2016: Lions not rushing Calvin Johnson in his decision, clearly know that he is contemplating retirement. "That's just the decision we've made internally, to not put a deadline on Calvin," Lions general manager Bob Quinn said Wednesday at the NFL combine. "So that's something that we've talked about -- myself, coach (Jim) Caldwell, Rod Wood. That's just the way we're going to go about business, in terms of what Calvin's decision may or may not be."
March 8th, 2016: Calvin Johnson officially retires


It isn't "my version" of things. It's called "reality". Also, Calvin signed his 7 year contract in 2012. He retired in 2016. He played out 4 of the 7 years of his contract, not 2. If you're going to make a stupid argument, at least get some of your facts right.


Rumors=reality? So Calvin telling the media that he told Stafford at the beginning of 2015 season about his retirement and then Calvin "mulling" over his decision from "rumors" two months before he officially files paperwork is not the same thing as the Lions organization knowing he would retire.

Also, if you want to get facts correct, it was an 8 year deal, 7 year extension. 2012 was the final year of his original contract. He didn't play in 2016, so that year does not count either. So technically it would be 3 years into an 7 year extension or 8 year deal. Or two years from when he the first year of the extension and when he told Stafford he was retiring. You know, stupid arguments should be factual.

http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/7685419/calvin-johnson-signs-7-year-extension-detroit-lions

Why are you so angry? Do you need a snickers? Are a Johnson family member? Wink
They weren't rumors. Calvin made public statements that he was considering retirement, then he retired after the Lions told him to take his time with his decision. Read the articles I linked and you would know that.

He got a signing bonus paid in 2012 from the new contract. He played out 4 of the 5 years that bonus was prorated. He played 4 years under that contract. That's how that works.

I'm not really angry, just annoyed that you and other people would have such stupid opinions. It's annoying that someone would criticize Calvin Johnson in this scenario without even making an effort to understand the situation. It's annoying that you would criticize him over things that he did to help the team.
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Louis Friend


Joined: 07 Apr 2010
Posts: 11101
Location: Detroit, Michigan
PostPosted: Tue May 23, 2017 5:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

IDOG_det wrote:
Louis Friend wrote:
IDOG_det wrote:
Louis Friend wrote:
IDOG_det wrote:
Louis Friend wrote:
IDOG_det wrote:
Louis Friend wrote:
Why shouldn't he pay back some of the signing bonus? He signed a 7 year extension and retires 2 years in. I loved him as a Lion, and wish him well moving forward, but is he seriously complaining about that? Especially when he didn't inform the team formally that he was even retiring until the offseason he did so. He might have divulged that info to Stafford, but the front office was waiting around for what he was going to do. Rolling Eyes
No. In fact, he isn't complaining about anything.

Oh, and the front office told him to take his time with a decision because they knew he was ready to retire. They figured he might not want to retire if he thought about it more, and they were wrong. He didn't screw them, they did that to themselves.


How did the Lions screw themselves? Laughing

Calvin said himself that he told Stafford he was planning on retiring and that was it. He told Matthew before his final season started. The organization was unaware, according to Calvin himself. Despite that, they waited for his response in the offseason and he took his sweet time to officially retire. After doing so, the Lions were within their rights to recoup the $3.2 million left on his signing bonus from the extension he signed. he paid 10% of that back and they didn't demand the rest, despite him quitting 2 years into a 7 year extension, leaving them with an almost $13 million dead cap hit.
They told him to do that. I will repeat this for you again. The Detroit Lions told Calvin Johnson to take his time with his decision to retire. Matthew Stafford was not the only person that knew, even fans knew that there was a very strong possibility he would retire. If that's your issue, then yes, they screwed themselves. They brought the timing of that decision upon themselves. They knew he wanted retire so they told him to take longer to think about it with the hope that he would change his mind. He gave them a final decision when they wanted a decision from him. They didn't want a decision early from him because they knew at that point he was set on retiring. They hoped some time would change his mind and clearly it didn't. How else do I have to explain this for you to understand it?

I don't give a damn about the contract, the organization made fools of themselves for making a big deal over $320,000. They [inappropriate/removed] away that kind of money on camp bodies, UDFA's, and other garbage low end players every year. They absolutely could have afforded to [inappropriate/removed] away another $320,000 to maintain a good relationship with the 2nd most important player in the history of the franchise.


I can appreciate your version of things. That doesn't change the fact the organization was entitled to a prorated portion of his bonus since he didn't fulfill his obligation for it. Why should they have to [inappropriate/removed] the money while still taking a $13 million dead cap hit for a player who negotiated a 7 year extension and quit two years in?

January 6th 2016: Rumors that the Lions aren't planning on honoring the remainder of Calvin Johnson's contract. They might trade him, cut him, or use a trade/cut as leverage for a re-negotiation
January 31st 2016: The idea of Calvin Johnson contemplating retirement is completely out in the open. Anyone who has the ability to read now knows that Calvin Johnson is likely to retire, and at a minimum is strongly considering it.
Janurary 31st, 2016: Adam Schefter reports that Calvin Johnson told the Lions that he planned to retire. Jim Caldwell told Calvin Johnson to take his time with his decision, and Calvin Johnson, out of respect for Caldwell, put off making an official announcement of his retirement.
February 2nd, 2016: Tim Twentyman evaluates how Calvin Johnson's retirement would impact the Lions cap situation. "Johnsonís total cap hit is $24,008,000, so the Lions will save just under $11.1 million towards the 2016 cap if he retires. If the team tries to recover the final $3.2 million in bonus money and is successful, the cap savings could potentially increase to a little under $14.3 million. But itís also possible the team doesn't see that savings until the 2017 cap. If Johnson retires, heís leaving a total of $67.7 million in base salary on the table from 2016-20."
February 24th, 2016: Lions not rushing Calvin Johnson in his decision, clearly know that he is contemplating retirement. "That's just the decision we've made internally, to not put a deadline on Calvin," Lions general manager Bob Quinn said Wednesday at the NFL combine. "So that's something that we've talked about -- myself, coach (Jim) Caldwell, Rod Wood. That's just the way we're going to go about business, in terms of what Calvin's decision may or may not be."
March 8th, 2016: Calvin Johnson officially retires


It isn't "my version" of things. It's called "reality". Also, Calvin signed his 7 year contract in 2012. He retired in 2016. He played out 4 of the 7 years of his contract, not 2. If you're going to make a stupid argument, at least get some of your facts right.


Rumors=reality? So Calvin telling the media that he told Stafford at the beginning of 2015 season about his retirement and then Calvin "mulling" over his decision from "rumors" two months before he officially files paperwork is not the same thing as the Lions organization knowing he would retire.

Also, if you want to get facts correct, it was an 8 year deal, 7 year extension. 2012 was the final year of his original contract. He didn't play in 2016, so that year does not count either. So technically it would be 3 years into an 7 year extension or 8 year deal. Or two years from when he the first year of the extension and when he told Stafford he was retiring. You know, stupid arguments should be factual.

http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/7685419/calvin-johnson-signs-7-year-extension-detroit-lions

Why are you so angry? Do you need a snickers? Are a Johnson family member? Wink
They weren't rumors. Calvin made public statements that he was considering retirement, then he retired after the Lions told him to take his time with his decision. Read the articles I linked and you would know that.

He got a signing bonus paid in 2012 from the new contract. He played out 4 of the 5 years that bonus was prorated. He played 4 years under that contract. That's how that works.

I'm not really angry, just annoyed that you and other people would have such stupid opinions. It's annoying that someone would criticize Calvin Johnson in this scenario without even making an effort to understand the situation. It's annoying that you would criticize him over things that he did to help the team.


How have I criticized him for things he did to help the team? Laughing

I have had no issue with Calvin. I have issues with the belief that somehow the Lions have done something worthy of being bash. And if they did in fact do that, either let it all out or don't make vague statements that don't add up.

It's annoying when people continuously bash others for their opinions when they differ.
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IDOG_det


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PostPosted: Tue May 23, 2017 9:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Louis Friend wrote:
How have I criticized him for things he did to help the team? Laughing

I have had no issue with Calvin. I have issues with the belief that somehow the Lions have done something worthy of being bash. And if they did in fact do that, either let it all out or don't make vague statements that don't add up.

It's annoying when people continuously bash others for their opinions when they differ.
You blamed him for having $13 million in dead money on his contract when he retired. That was only dead money because he converted salary into option bonuses to help the Lions cap situation. He helped the team, but apparently he's the bad guy because that turned into dead money down the line. You also seemed to think that he cost the Lions when he retired, but the Lions actually saved money because he retired. That dead money was going to be paid regardless, and they still save money after it was all accelerated into one season.

I don't bash opinions because they are different, I only bash them when they deserve it. You're mad at a guy who retired because he didn't like having to pay back money that was supposed to be "guaranteed", because he "took his sweet time" to retire after being told by the team to take his sweet time, and because you think he hurt the team financially, when, in reality, he actually helped their cap standing.
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Nnivolcm


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PostPosted: Tue May 23, 2017 9:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This is a really slow time of year. Can OTA stories start yet?
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IDOG_det


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PostPosted: Tue May 23, 2017 10:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nnivolcm wrote:
This is a really slow time of year. Can OTA stories start yet?
If only they showed more than 40 second highlights
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PostPosted: Tue May 23, 2017 10:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

IDOG_det wrote:
Nnivolcm wrote:
This is a really slow time of year. Can OTA stories start yet?
If only they showed more than 40 second highlights

....about an UDFA looking like the next Barry, so he can be cut in 2 weeks and never surface again...
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PostPosted: Tue May 23, 2017 10:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

IDOG_det wrote:
Nnivolcm wrote:
This is a really slow time of year. Can OTA stories start yet?
If only they showed more than 40 second highlights


That Michael Burton one-handed catch though... Too bad we never use him.
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Louis Friend


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PostPosted: Wed May 24, 2017 10:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

IDOG_det wrote:
Louis Friend wrote:
How have I criticized him for things he did to help the team? Laughing

I have had no issue with Calvin. I have issues with the belief that somehow the Lions have done something worthy of being bash. And if they did in fact do that, either let it all out or don't make vague statements that don't add up.

It's annoying when people continuously bash others for their opinions when they differ.
You blamed him for having $13 million in dead money on his contract when he retired. That was only dead money because he converted salary into option bonuses to help the Lions cap situation. He helped the team, but apparently he's the bad guy because that turned into dead money down the line. You also seemed to think that he cost the Lions when he retired, but the Lions actually saved money because he retired. That dead money was going to be paid regardless, and they still save money after it was all accelerated into one season.

I don't bash opinions because they are different, I only bash them when they deserve it. You're mad at a guy who retired because he didn't like having to pay back money that was supposed to be "guaranteed", because he "took his sweet time" to retire after being told by the team to take his sweet time, and because you think he hurt the team financially, when, in reality, he actually helped their cap standing.


You need to read what I wrote again because obviously it went over your head. Never did I say that I was mad at Calvin or blamed him for the dead cap hit. That is apart of business, just as much as him owing $3.2 million signing bonus to the Lions. The dead cap hit is money they had to account for without having the services of the player. This doesn't exactly help the team. Calvin didn't do the Lions a favor by retiring. He did what was right for him and his family moving forward. Which is great. He deserves a quality of life after football. But to vaguely [inappropriate/removed] and moan about getting to keep 90% of the money he owed the team from the negotiations he agreed to have in place for voiding his contract, is something I find difficult to blame the Lions organization for.
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CutParisLenon


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PostPosted: Wed May 24, 2017 1:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think I am reading too much into this because I just assume Detroit did something stupid. But some excellent points have been raised here. The Lions did feature Calvin Johnson, fed him the ball a lot. They made him the face of the franchise for a long time. They paid him way more than any skill position player outside of QB should ever be paid. They treated him pretty well. Not really sure anything that we've speculated about (signing bonus, concussions, painkillers) really merit any of his consternation, especially since he has admitted that some the blame is on him.

Maybe the Lions didn't screw this up other than they way they usually do-- being so bad for so long that star players dont want to play there any longer.
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Nnivolcm


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PostPosted: Wed May 24, 2017 3:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quinn is a disciple of BB, who has pulled the rug out from many of his stars.

Not saying that's what happened here, but I'm actually a little surprised that they didn't try to recoup the entire bonus.
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iLovetheLions


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PostPosted: Wed May 24, 2017 10:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

the point is who cares about 300 grand they carried over 4.7 mil. They are legally in the right to seek it but the optics are petty
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 11, 2017 9:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

What would you not be upset trading Calvin for seeing he won't play for you guys again?

5th rd pick?
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This forum is locked: you cannot post, reply to, or edit topics.   This topic is locked: you cannot edit posts or make replies.    FootballsFuture.com Forum Index -> Detroit Lions All times are GMT - 4 Hours
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