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JLambert58


Joined: 30 Jan 2013
Posts: 2016
Location: Denver, CO
PostPosted: Wed May 17, 2017 5:59 pm    Post subject: Roster Moves Reply with quote

Figured there should be a thread for this. Bummed that Akil Blount was cut but like the kid from Pitt. (ILB)
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theironcitykid


Joined: 29 Jan 2015
Posts: 235
PostPosted: Wed May 17, 2017 8:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I feel like there's going to have to be a trade at some point. Good teams control asset management like Belichick working the cap and excess depth like a wizard. Either someone won't get a long-term deal out of (Villanueva, Tuitt, Shazier, Bell - probably Big AL). OR the wide receiver depth is too great and you need to lose someone in the room.


I think DB is deficient and is still a liability. So, I would look at Cincinnati for Big AL and I would look at San Francisco or Minnesota for WR. I can see Rogers on SF and Coates on MIN.

I would be targeting William Jackson III from Cincy in some trade, Trae Waynes from Minnesota, Eric Reid from SF (probably give up pick as well) and throw in Trumaine Johnson from LA Rams.
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Magnus-Viktor


Joined: 28 Apr 2016
Posts: 243
PostPosted: Thu May 18, 2017 12:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lol who do you think the Steelers have that they would trade for Waynes? That's laughable at best. The Vikings now have 2 quality starters in Diggs and Thielen. The Steelers have no one better than them except Brown and Bryant if he's on the field. Waynes is a 24 year old former first rounder that I'm not a fan of, but he has elite speed and has improved.....he was backing up a 38 year old who was playing at a high level last year, so he's not going anywhere. Especially not for some scrub WR on the Steelers like Coates. They also just signed Michael Floyd, have last year's #1 Laquon Treadwell on board, plus drafted 2 WRs this year.

William Jackson? A 1st rounder last year, that they moved up in front of the Steelers to get? Yeah, they'll trade him to the Steelers for sure! Especially, since this seems to be WR-oriented, since they already have AJ Green, drafted John Ross at #9, followed up by Josh Malone in 4. (Btw, that looks like a really nasty, dynamic WR corp over there now!)



WR is still nowhere near a position of strength for the Steelers. Going down the list on the roster on steelers.com right now:

Ayers - nobody - 6 catches for 53 yards and 1 TD - 2 career games, 1 start

Brown - stud

Bryant - elite potential if he ever plays, 8 career starts under his belt

Coates - stonehands - a whopping 5 starts and 22 catches for 446 & 2 TDs

Hamilton - another nobody - 17 for 234 and 2 TDs in 11 games (8 starts) - he's not young either, being a 6th in 2013, but never playing until last year.

DHB - 6 catches for 114 and 2 TDs last year - bad hands again - in THREE seasons with the Steelers he's netted 30 catches for 461 yards and 4 TDs

Hunter - a reclamation project is all he is. He's now on his 3rd team in 4 years, with a combined 32 catches and 453 yards and 5 TDs the last 2 seasons.

Rogers - the most productive of the no-names. 48 for 594 and 3 TDs in his 1 year of playing (undrafted in '15, played in '16): 13 games, 8 starts. Not a high impact guy, slot only IMO.

Severin - never played after going undrafted last year

JuJu - a 20 year old rookie

Tucker - another 5'10" nobody with 4.55 speed, a terrible 10 split, and poor agility and COD #s who went undrafted last year and didn't play yet either

So Brown, Bryant, JuJu, Rogers, ---- Coates/Hunter/DHB/Ayers/Hamilton - not exactly loaded at the position. The guy you cut is going to be a fringe roster guy, as is the last guy you keep IMO. Bleacher Report is saying Sammite Coates might be cut, and Bryant is saying that JuJu replaces Coates instead of him. Personally, I can't stand guys that drop the ball, which is why I never wanted Coates in the first place. Beyond the first 4, it's hard to say who I would keep. Hunter and Coates maybe due to youth (no DHB)/speed (no Hamilton or Ayers)?

https://stillcurtain.com/2017/05/15/pittsburgh-steelers-sammie-coates-sit-receiving-core/

http://pit.247sports.com/Bolt/Bleacher-Report-Sammie-Coates-in-jeopardy-of-being-cut-52763565

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2017/04/29/martavis-bryant-juju-smith-schuster-replaces-sammie-coates-not-me/
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MDSteeler1971


Joined: 14 Apr 2015
Posts: 455
Location: Jefferson, MD
PostPosted: Thu May 18, 2017 4:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

This will be a pain in the [inappropriate/removed] because they already cut Severin and brought him back...
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Steeler Hitman


Joined: 25 Apr 2006
Posts: 1782
Location: Laurel, MD
PostPosted: Thu May 18, 2017 8:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Magnus-Viktor wrote:
Lol who do you think the Steelers have that they would trade for Waynes? That's laughable at best. The Vikings now have 2 quality starters in Diggs and Thielen. The Steelers have no one better than them except Brown and Bryant if he's on the field. Waynes is a 24 year old former first rounder that I'm not a fan of, but he has elite speed and has improved.....he was backing up a 38 year old who was playing at a high level last year, so he's not going anywhere. Especially not for some scrub WR on the Steelers like Coates. They also just signed Michael Floyd, have last year's #1 Laquon Treadwell on board, plus drafted 2 WRs this year.

William Jackson? A 1st rounder last year, that they moved up in front of the Steelers to get? Yeah, they'll trade him to the Steelers for sure! Especially, since this seems to be WR-oriented, since they already have AJ Green, drafted John Ross at #9, followed up by Josh Malone in 4. (Btw, that looks like a really nasty, dynamic WR corp over there now!)

I think the ironcitykid gets a kick out of coming up with these Madden-Game-Like trade scenarios and seeing everyone flip out over his ideas. Don't drink the kool-aid.


WR is still nowhere near a position of strength for the Steelers. Going down the list on the roster on steelers.com right now:

I think WR is one of the greatest strengths of the team (WHEN HEALTHY). Most teams can't field two let alone five or six guys who can hurt a defense.


Ayers - nobody - 6 catches for 53 yards and 1 TD - 2 career games, 1 start

Ayers may make it if he can take over the PR duties from AB. We need to get AB off of PR duties and Ayers, Eli or Cam Sutton may take this role.


Brown - stud

Enough said there!

Bryant - elite potential if he ever plays, 8 career starts under his belt

Well said! Has all of the potential to be a stud himself. I am rooting for him to defeat the (enemy aka inner me)
.


Coates - stonehands - a whopping 5 starts and 22 catches for 446 & 2 TDs

I am still intrigued with the Coates situation from last year. He owns 90% of his stone hands issues, but I think the coaches could have done some things to help get his confidence back like allowing him to catch a five yard pass before attempting to catch a 45 yard pass or using him on a reverse or something to get him back into the game. Hunter is breathing down his neck though. Similar, size, speed, and skill set with better hands and now an elite QB to work with.


Hamilton - another nobody - 17 for 234 and 2 TDs in 11 games (8 starts) - he's not young either, being a 6th in 2013, but never playing until last year.

This guy is probably gone, but it is hard not to root for him. He overachieved at times and then when he came back to earth with some key drops in big games, we blasted him. Hopefully he does enough to land a job somewhere. He reminds me of Jarvis Landry in terms of skills and style.


DHB - 6 catches for 114 and 2 TDs last year - bad hands again - in THREE seasons with the Steelers he's netted 30 catches for 461 yards and 4 TDs

I have always been a fan of DHB. He is a great guy and very good for the locker room. He is a consummate team player and unfortunately he got hurt and never bounced back because I think he could have helped the team. however, he is probably gone with the youth and similar skills of Coates and Hunter.


Hunter - a reclamation project is all he is. He's now on his 3rd team in 4 years, with a combined 32 catches and 453 yards and 5 TDs the last 2 seasons.

He is my dark horse to make the team. I was a fan of his coming out of college, but he has bounced around. I think he has a shot if Coates falters in the least during practice and games. His career numbers don't show it, but putting him with a great QB should help him showcase his talents. I am looking forward to seeing Hunter compete.



Rogers - the most productive of the no-names. 48 for 594 and 3 TDs in his 1 year of playing (undrafted in '15, played in '16): 13 games, 8 starts. Not a high impact guy, slot only IMO.

He should make it, but will feel pressure from Ayers and possibly even Ju Ju for that slot position. I think he is tailor made to be a slot WR and has huge upside here or elsewhere in that spot. He had some growing pains and maturity issues, but also made some great catches and clutch plays. His consistency will be the key. If he stumbles in the least, there is help with Ayers or Ju Ju.


Severin - never played after going undrafted last year

He will never make it!!!!!!!!!


JuJu - a 20 year old rookie

He will eventually battle Bryant for the #2 spot or potentially look to replace AB in four years. Hopefully he plays to his abilities and has no issues.


Tucker - another 5'10" nobody with 4.55 speed, a terrible 10 split, and poor agility and COD #s who went undrafted last year and didn't play yet either

Nope!!!

So Brown, Bryant, JuJu, Rogers, ---- Coates/Hunter/DHB/Ayers/Hamilton - not exactly loaded at the position.

I disagree my friend. That is loaded. If AJ Green, John Ross, Tyler Boyd and Josh Malone looks dynamic. Then AB, Bryant, Ju Ju, and Rogers with Coates or Hunter looks downright deadly to me. I get that Coates, Hunter, DHB, Ayers, and Hamilton all have issues, but as back-ups that is a pretty strong group to pick two spots from to back-up a STUD, a potential STUD, a solid slot guy and a rookie with Hines Ward/Anquaan Boldin type of ability. That is pretty solid and a problem that probably most teams would want to have.


The guy you cut is going to be a fringe roster guy, as is the last guy you keep IMO. Bleacher Report is saying Sammie Coates might be cut, and Bryant is saying that JuJu replaces Coates instead of him.

Pressure and competition will sort everything out and bring out the best or worst in players. I could see Coates stepping up or falling flat. I expect to see Hunter and Ayers stepping up and causing some tough decisions on cut days. I love Martavis, but he has as much pressure as anyone else. He has dropped his fair share of balls as well. The difference is that Bryant typically steps up when challenged on the field. Every fan is hoping he steps up with the off the field challenges of life.


Personally, I can't stand guys that drop the ball, which is why I never wanted Coates in the first place. Beyond the first 4, it's hard to say who I would keep. Hunter and Coates maybe due to youth (no DHB)/speed (no Hamilton or Ayers)?

Again, it will sort itself out this August. My prediction early on is that the Steelers keep six. Barring injuries I think it looks like this:

1. AB
2. Bryant
3. Ju Ju
4. Rogers
5. Hunter slight nod over Coates
6. Ayers


https://stillcurtain.com/2017/05/15/pittsburgh-steelers-sammie-coates-sit-receiving-core/

http://pit.247sports.com/Bolt/Bleacher-Report-Sammie-Coates-in-jeopardy-of-being-cut-52763565

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2017/04/29/martavis-bryant-juju-smith-schuster-replaces-sammie-coates-not-me/

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warfelg


Joined: 12 Jan 2014
Posts: 3561
Location: Richmond Va
PostPosted: Thu May 18, 2017 11:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Greg Warren waived failed physical.
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jebrick wrote:
Quote:
Jarvis Jones signs with Steelers


Hahahahaha.

Jones' only chance is to go to Tenn. Otherwise he is flipping burgers this fall.
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JLambert58


Joined: 30 Jan 2013
Posts: 2016
Location: Denver, CO
PostPosted: Thu May 18, 2017 11:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

warfelg wrote:
Greg Warren waived failed physical.


Wow, they must have known. Alright, Holba, show us what you've got!
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TheClocksTickin


Joined: 20 Mar 2006
Posts: 1085
PostPosted: Thu May 18, 2017 7:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

theironcitykid wrote:
I think DB is deficient and is still a liability. So, I would look at Cincinnati for Big AL and I would look at San Francisco or Minnesota for WR. I can see Rogers on SF and Coates on MIN.

I would be targeting William Jackson III from Cincy in some trade, Trae Waynes from Minnesota, Eric Reid from SF (probably give up pick as well) and throw in Trumaine Johnson from LA Rams.


What is the fascination with trades? They rarely ever happen in the NFL and even less often are player for player. Why would the Niners even consider moving Reid? And for a mediocre slot guy...come on dude.
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Magnus-Viktor


Joined: 28 Apr 2016
Posts: 243
PostPosted: Fri May 19, 2017 12:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

A large part of my point in not considering the WR corp loaded is because Bryant is really unreliable. He also has iffy hands, but is a lot better than Coates, and much more athletic and dynamic in getting in position to try and catch the ball as well. But the main thing is I don't trust him to be available, so when I evaluate the WR corp, I do so with him being suspended in mind, so I look at it without him. Then you're looking at Brown, JuJu, Rogers, Coates, etc. In other words, the same thing as last year, plus a 20 year old 2nd round rookie. The WR corp was a major problem last year with no one to take pressure off of Brown. I'm not relying on JuJu to erase those problems from last year if Bryant is gone again. If Bryant is available and productive as he was a year+ ago, then by all means, Brown, Bryant and Rogers/JuJu is a nice WR grouping, with TWO elite players. But him being available and productive reliably is not something to bank on IMO.
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JLambert58


Joined: 30 Jan 2013
Posts: 2016
Location: Denver, CO
PostPosted: Wed Jun 14, 2017 11:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rushel Shell we hardly knew you. Welcome back, Brandon Brown-Dukes!
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warfelg


Joined: 12 Jan 2014
Posts: 3561
Location: Richmond Va
PostPosted: Thu Jun 15, 2017 7:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sounds like Senquez Golson is fighting an uphill battle to make the team.

Carnell Lake basically admitted he's going to have to show he can contribute on special teams:
http://www.pennlive.com/steelers/index.ssf/2017/06/steelers_cb_senquez_golson.html#incart_river_index
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jebrick wrote:
Quote:
Jarvis Jones signs with Steelers


Hahahahaha.

Jones' only chance is to go to Tenn. Otherwise he is flipping burgers this fall.
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Chieferific


Joined: 24 Feb 2006
Posts: 4914
PostPosted: Fri Jun 16, 2017 12:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

warfelg wrote:
Sounds like Senquez Golson is fighting an uphill battle to make the team.

Carnell Lake basically admitted he's going to have to show he can contribute on special teams:
http://www.pennlive.com/steelers/index.ssf/2017/06/steelers_cb_senquez_golson.html#incart_river_index

While I don't disagree, I read that article a little differently. It seems to me as if they are treating him like a Rookie. Lake mentioned Golson was a 2nd Rd pick and that 2nd RD picks basically had to play STs. That seems like something you'd say about a Rookie not a 3rd year player. Gay is slowing down and Sensabaugh is nothing special. If Golson can't make this Roster of DBs he may need to think about a different line of work. Also, is Gay cuttable? I've never been a Salary Cap guy. I'd much rather the potential of Allen than what Gay offers. That may sound like a "Hot Take" and I don't want to exaggerate Gay's decline but the writing is on the wall to me and Allen could be a gem.

Burns
Cockrell
Golson/Sutton
Gay
*They either carry 6 CBs or gamble with Allen on the PS.
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warfelg


Joined: 12 Jan 2014
Posts: 3561
Location: Richmond Va
PostPosted: Fri Jun 16, 2017 8:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Chieferific wrote:
warfelg wrote:
Sounds like Senquez Golson is fighting an uphill battle to make the team.

Carnell Lake basically admitted he's going to have to show he can contribute on special teams:
http://www.pennlive.com/steelers/index.ssf/2017/06/steelers_cb_senquez_golson.html#incart_river_index

While I don't disagree, I read that article a little differently. It seems to me as if they are treating him like a Rookie. Lake mentioned Golson was a 2nd Rd pick and that 2nd RD picks basically had to play STs. That seems like something you'd say about a Rookie not a 3rd year player. Gay is slowing down and Sensabaugh is nothing special. If Golson can't make this Roster of DBs he may need to think about a different line of work. Also, is Gay cuttable? I've never been a Salary Cap guy. I'd much rather the potential of Allen than what Gay offers. That may sound like a "Hot Take" and I don't want to exaggerate Gay's decline but the writing is on the wall to me and Allen could be a gem.

Burns
Cockrell
Golson/Sutton
Gay
*They either carry 6 CBs or gamble with Allen on the PS.


Yea, I'll say that I read it as, we've brought in guys that we have the intent of replacing you with. If you want to be here you need to work your way onto the team.

Cutting Gay would mean $2mil savings this year, $1.75 mil next year.

I think in the end Burns, Cockrell, Sutton are locks. Gay is very likely. Allen is likely. Golson is possible.

I do think that the end of the CB depth chart depends on the end of the WR depth chart. And I know how that sounds. But if you keep both Coates and DHB, why keep Golson if being a gunner is what could make a spot on the team. If they cut one of DHB or Coates, then I think there's a high chance that Golson makes it.
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jebrick wrote:
Quote:
Jarvis Jones signs with Steelers


Hahahahaha.

Jones' only chance is to go to Tenn. Otherwise he is flipping burgers this fall.
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3rivers


Joined: 01 Jan 2011
Posts: 5596
PostPosted: Fri Jun 16, 2017 2:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

warfelg wrote:
Chieferific wrote:
warfelg wrote:
Sounds like Senquez Golson is fighting an uphill battle to make the team.

Carnell Lake basically admitted he's going to have to show he can contribute on special teams:
http://www.pennlive.com/steelers/index.ssf/2017/06/steelers_cb_senquez_golson.html#incart_river_index

While I don't disagree, I read that article a little differently. It seems to me as if they are treating him like a Rookie. Lake mentioned Golson was a 2nd Rd pick and that 2nd RD picks basically had to play STs. That seems like something you'd say about a Rookie not a 3rd year player. Gay is slowing down and Sensabaugh is nothing special. If Golson can't make this Roster of DBs he may need to think about a different line of work. Also, is Gay cuttable? I've never been a Salary Cap guy. I'd much rather the potential of Allen than what Gay offers. That may sound like a "Hot Take" and I don't want to exaggerate Gay's decline but the writing is on the wall to me and Allen could be a gem.

Burns
Cockrell
Golson/Sutton
Gay
*They either carry 6 CBs or gamble with Allen on the PS.


Yea, I'll say that I read it as, we've brought in guys that we have the intent of replacing you with. If you want to be here you need to work your way onto the team.

Cutting Gay would mean $2mil savings this year, $1.75 mil next year.

I think in the end Burns, Cockrell, Sutton are locks. Gay is very likely. Allen is likely. Golson is possible.

I do think that the end of the CB depth chart depends on the end of the WR depth chart. And I know how that sounds. But if you keep both Coates and DHB, why keep Golson if being a gunner is what could make a spot on the team. If they cut one of DHB or Coates, then I think there's a high chance that Golson makes it.


cockrell was a liability when tackling last season, a reason I was hoping the FO would replace him. Of course they didn't and now they are having Golson possibly on his way out Applause Not signing Revis was one mistake, now lets wait for the rest Embarassed What is the problem with getting a few good CB's?
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Dcash4


Joined: 21 Apr 2008
Posts: 1482
PostPosted: Fri Jun 16, 2017 3:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm not so sure that article is any sort of surprise. As of right now - Gay is the starter. Someone needs to unseat him (I dont think that's a tall task, but...) and until they do, back up players will NEED to play special teams.

This isn't new. Its always been that way. Back ups are essential to filling out special teams duties.

If Golson CANNOT beat out Gay to be part of the top 3...his roster position NEEDS to play special teams. If he cannot beat Gay and cannot play special teams...whats the point in having him?

He is a little bit of a special case, put Sutton in the same sentence and things are different. You are willing to take a hit on a rookie to learn and find ways to contribute....a 3rd year guy who has yet to take a meaningful NFL snap - preseason or otherwise - its sink or swim time.

There are 314 ST snaps from last year from DB players who are not here anymore...someone has to fill those snaps and the players that show they can are the ones making the backup positions on this roster.

There are another 191 snaps and 114 snaps from Coates and DHB respectively...If one of those guys gets cut, that's another huge hit to our ST. Players that can stand out in the 3rd phase are going to stand a big chance to make the 53.

Those numbers are big part of the reason that I believe Rogers and Gay are in a huge fight this camp. If they don't win their jobs - or their jobs are not theirs to hang onto long term - they provide no help in those ST numbers. If they cannot contribute to their given trade, they do not help this team in backup roles (and that's without talking about how limited each is in their own phase of the game).

Kind of transitioning subjects here, but I don't think people realize how many ST snaps we lost from guys that wont be here and guys like Vince Williams, Burns, and Sean Davis who are going to see increased defensive workloads. Burns lead his position group in ST snaps and Davis was second in his. Those guys wont see that many extra snaps with how important they are to the defense. These tight position races are going to be won by who can offer the most -- in all phases.
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