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brownie man


Joined: 26 Jan 2008
Posts: 8198
PostPosted: Fri May 19, 2017 9:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

MSURacerDT55 wrote:
hornbybrown wrote:
I think Medder makes it because he as far as I can see is the only true back up to Shelton, but I can see him being cut



To be honest, I don't know how Meder fits beyond being Shelton's back up, but then again you never know.


I think it'll depend on Xavier Cooper and Dez Bryant.

He could really benefit a lot from moving back to a four man front. If he improves I can't see Meder stay he's not dynamic enough. And with Dez it just depends if they wanna go youth movement, but if he is finally healthy no way Meder is better.

Shelton
Bryant
Larry O
Brantley
Cooper

Garrett
Ogbah
Nassib
Orchard

That's 9 if everyone can stay healthy. If we go 10 I would deff think it'd be an edge player.
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Deshone Kizer, Malik Hooker, Carlos Watkins, Adoree Jackson, Budda Baker, TJ Watt, Montravius Adams, Ryan Switzer, Kendall Beckwith, Davis Webb, Des Lawrence, Shelton Gibson, Jamaal Williams, Bucky Hodges
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buno67


Joined: 15 Mar 2007
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PostPosted: Fri May 19, 2017 10:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think the big thing we have to realize. We are looking at guys, who played in schemes that have been awful, I mean AWFUL!!! I hope they burned the videos that had to do with anything with Pettine and O'Neil being in charge of the defense. Heck even Horton's scheme was awful at times.

We currently have a lot of guys who look like they should be studs in the 4-3. If they look like they should be playing in the 4-3, why in the hell were they being used in a 3-4.

Like Cooper never looked amazing but I dont know if he ever should of been a true NT.

I just hope everyone has a clean slate defensively and they all get a chance to shine in this new aggressive 4-3.
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MSURacerDT55


Joined: 05 Jan 2009
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PostPosted: Fri May 19, 2017 11:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

buno67 wrote:
I think the big thing we have to realize. We are looking at guys, who played in schemes that have been awful, I mean AWFUL!!! I hope they burned the videos that had to do with anything with Pettine and O'Neil being in charge of the defense. Heck even Horton's scheme was awful at times.

We currently have a lot of guys who look like they should be studs in the 4-3. If they look like they should be playing in the 4-3, why in the hell were they being used in a 3-4.

Like Cooper never looked amazing but I dont know if he ever should of been a true NT.

I just hope everyone has a clean slate defensively and they all get a chance to shine in this new aggressive 4-3.



Bruh.... Laughing Laughing Laughing
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LETSGOBROWNIES


Joined: 06 Feb 2006
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PostPosted: Fri May 19, 2017 11:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

MSURacerDT55 wrote:
LETSGOBROWNIES wrote:
DawgX wrote:
ohiogenius wrote:
Dont forget we also have Xavier Cooper

He was a slightly undersized pass rushing DT in college and got stuck playing in a 3-4

He may also come in as a surprise


I hope he can turn it around with the scheme change, but I have little hope for him. The rest of the defensive line has the potential to be downright scary, though.


Agreed.

I get that he didn't fit the schemes well, but I've not seen him flash yet. He's also not one of "their guys".


My money is on him not making it, Greg Williams watching all of his previous snaps, like myself, I bet he is going to be underwhelmed. He would have to play lights out to even make the team and even then that still will raise questions why he hasn't played with that same effort in previous years.


I mean, some players take longer to develop and I personally never saw his fit in a 3-4, but he's been nonexistent thus far on some rather untalented defenses.

It's not as if he had a lot of stiff competition for snaps. Hell, Meder walked in off the street and outperformed him.
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roger murdock


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PostPosted: Fri May 19, 2017 1:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Meder had wildly outperformed Cooper over the last 2.5 years. I'd be shocked if Cooper made the team.
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DawgX


Joined: 08 Aug 2006
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PostPosted: Fri May 19, 2017 6:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

LETSGOBROWNIES wrote:
MSURacerDT55 wrote:
LETSGOBROWNIES wrote:
DawgX wrote:
ohiogenius wrote:
Dont forget we also have Xavier Cooper

He was a slightly undersized pass rushing DT in college and got stuck playing in a 3-4

He may also come in as a surprise


I hope he can turn it around with the scheme change, but I have little hope for him. The rest of the defensive line has the potential to be downright scary, though.


Agreed.

I get that he didn't fit the schemes well, but I've not seen him flash yet. He's also not one of "their guys".


My money is on him not making it, Greg Williams watching all of his previous snaps, like myself, I bet he is going to be underwhelmed. He would have to play lights out to even make the team and even then that still will raise questions why he hasn't played with that same effort in previous years.


I mean, some players take longer to develop and I personally never saw his fit in a 3-4, but he's been nonexistent thus far on some rather untalented defenses.

It's not as if he had a lot of stiff competition for snaps. Hell, Meder walked in off the street and outperformed him.


Pretty much this. I was never that excited when we drafted him, and he's done absolutely nothing. I'd say he's the most likely of the DTs to get cut.
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DaWg_LB.


Joined: 02 Dec 2005
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PostPosted: Sat May 20, 2017 6:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

OK...I think I'm in the minority here....I love some Jamie Meder....but at the same time I love me Garry Barnage.....I for one am personally excited to see Xavier Cooper get snaps as a UT in a 4-3 which is why he was drafted in the 3rd round a couple of years ago....I think him at his true college position and having Greg Williams coach him....I just would like to see how that works out.....
I dont like him enough to argue if he should or should not be cut....
I see the line working out like this this year....

DE Ogbah/Nassib
NT Shelton/Brantley
UT Ogunjobi/Cooper
DE Garrett/Holmes

Two guys I like and think we need for hustle, solid but unspectacular play and Vet presence Meder and Bryant.....I know we dont keep 10 DLineman, I guess the question is do we keep 9 or 8?
*Bold names I dont think its even a debate if we keep them....non bold I think anything could happen from a trade to being cut...(I THINK Holmes has PS eligibility....could someone verify that who knows where to find that?)
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NudeTayne


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PostPosted: Sat May 20, 2017 7:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

DaWg_LB. wrote:
OK...I think I'm in the minority here....I love some Jamie Meder....but at the same time I love me Garry Barnage.....I for one am personally excited to see Xavier Cooper get snaps as a UT in a 4-3 which is why he was drafted in the 3rd round a couple of years ago....I think him at his true college position and having Greg Williams coach him....I just would like to see how that works out.....
I dont like him enough to argue if he should or should not be cut....
I see the line working out like this this year....

DE Ogbah/Nassib
NT Shelton/Brantley
UT Ogunjobi/Cooper
DE Garrett/Holmes

Two guys I like and think we need for hustle, solid but unspectacular play and Vet presence Meder and Bryant.....I know we dont keep 10 DLineman, I guess the question is do we keep 9 or 8?
*Bold names I dont think its even a debate if we keep them....non bold I think anything could happen from a trade to being cut...(I THINK Holmes has PS eligibility....could someone verify that who knows where to find that?)


I'm fairly certain(?) Brantley is in the mold of an UT (6-3, 300'ish), being compared to Aaron Donald etc. He is supposed to have a great first step (drawn offsides a lot apparently but can be fixed). His bench shhtuff wasn't great, which makes me think even more that his fit isn't at NT. My question is now, who is our #2 NT to spell Shelton? I see Ogunjobi starting at UT & Brantley battling with him for the spot/backing him up from the get go. I'd like to keep Cooper as well though may be too many UTs(?).

**Edit: I also just wonder how much Gregg cares about always having an NT on the field, as we're going to be running lots of nickel. Maybe two DTs around 6'3"/305 is totally fine with him (i.e., maybe we are just going to roll with Shelton and a bunch of UT types like Brantley, Ogunjobi, Cooper, Meder, though Meder could probably play NT as well(?)).**
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hornbybrown wrote:
Garrett needs a nickname with dinosaurs
call him throbin hood, our defense throbin hood and his hairy men

DizzyDean wrote:
buno67 wrote:
sigh...swing and a miss yet again
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BleedTheClock


Joined: 17 Nov 2014
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PostPosted: Sat May 20, 2017 7:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'd get rid of both Bryant and Meder to be honest. Desmond Bryant is a nice player, but I don't want him eating minutes away from the young guys. He isn't THAT good.

Caleb Brantley was one of my favorite players in this draft. I had an early 1st round grade on him & the draft forum would back that one up. I think he will become a dominant 3-Tech for us.


Larry Ogunjobi has the size of a 3-Tech, but he was VERY good in college as a NT eating up double teams. He played more snaps as a NT than he did as a 3-Tech. He's super strong and has a heck of an anchor. He can back up the NT spot, especially in a 4-3 where he won't be head up the C. Williams uses a lot of complex movement in his schemes, so I expect someone lining up as a 1-Tech (Ogunjobi) to end up in the 3-Tech hole after the ball is snapped.


LE: Ogbah/Nassib
NT: Shelton/Ogunjobi
ST: Brantley/Cooper
RE: Garrett/Orchard

Maybe we keep Meder or Bryant over Cooper, but I actually like Cooper as a fireplug 3-Technique and want to see him work in a true 4-3.
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DaWg_LB.


Joined: 02 Dec 2005
Posts: 6143
PostPosted: Sat May 20, 2017 7:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

NudeTayne wrote:
DaWg_LB. wrote:
OK...I think I'm in the minority here....I love some Jamie Meder....but at the same time I love me Garry Barnage.....I for one am personally excited to see Xavier Cooper get snaps as a UT in a 4-3 which is why he was drafted in the 3rd round a couple of years ago....I think him at his true college position and having Greg Williams coach him....I just would like to see how that works out.....
I dont like him enough to argue if he should or should not be cut....
I see the line working out like this this year....

DE Ogbah/Nassib
NT Shelton/Brantley
UT Ogunjobi/Cooper
DE Garrett/Holmes

Two guys I like and think we need for hustle, solid but unspectacular play and Vet presence Meder and Bryant.....I know we dont keep 10 DLineman, I guess the question is do we keep 9 or 8?
*Bold names I dont think its even a debate if we keep them....non bold I think anything could happen from a trade to being cut...(I THINK Holmes has PS eligibility....could someone verify that who knows where to find that?)


I'm fairly certain(?) Brantley is in the mold of an UT (6-3, 300'ish), being compared to Aaron Donald etc. He is supposed to have a great first step (drawn offsides a lot apparently but can be fixed). His bench shhtuff wasn't great, which makes me think even more that his fit isn't at NT. My question is now, who is our #2 NT to spell Shelton? I see Ogunjobi starting at UT & Brantley battling with him for the spot/backing him up from the get go. I'd like to keep Cooper as well though may be too many UTs(?).


Unfortunately that's what I'm thinking also.....and also I think Dez Bryant is an UT also....I was thinking, he (Brantly) came in at 307 @ the combine and played the bigger run stopping tackle for Florida...definitely more quick/disruptive than a POA clogger (like J.Meder)....I was thinking with a 4-3..... I am thinking keep the best 3 tackles with the most potential upside with Shelton as the only true NT? Maybe???
With the Larger DE's we will have this year....our ends arent the 255-263 speed rushers....Garret is 272 (33 reps) and Ogbah was a ham sandwich (with bacon) away from 280 last year...he may be there this year already.......Nassib could be in the 280lb range this year also....or at least high 270's to ago along with a 6'7 frame /w Long arms.....so we may be able to get away with tackles more geared towards speed on the inside???? Maybe???? Not saying this is the right way to go....just a thought process...

Also last but not least....if we play a lot of big nickle this year.....we have a nice mix of safeties with some size....(SS's Peppers, Kindred..FS's Powell and Nicua)...maybe that lets us get away with a little quicker than stouter DT's????? Maybe?
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DaWg_LB.


Joined: 02 Dec 2005
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PostPosted: Sat May 20, 2017 7:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

BleedTheClock wrote:
I'd get rid of both Bryant and Meder to be honest. Desmond Bryant is a nice player, but I don't want him eating minutes away from the young guys. He isn't THAT good.

Caleb Brantley was one of my favorite players in this draft. I had an early 1st round grade on him & the draft forum would back that one up. I think he will become a dominant 3-Tech for us.


Larry Ogunjobi has the size of a 3-Tech, but he was VERY good in college as a NT eating up double teams. He played more snaps as a NT than he did as a 3-Tech. He's super strong and has a heck of an anchor. He can back up the NT spot, especially in a 4-3 where he won't be head up the C. Williams uses a lot of complex movement in his schemes, so I expect someone lining up as a 1-Tech (Ogunjobi) to end up in the 3-Tech hole after the ball is snapped.


LE: Ogbah/Nassib
NT: Shelton/Ogunjobi
ST: Brantley/Cooper
RE: Garrett/Orchard

Maybe we keep Meder or Bryant over Cooper, but I actually like Cooper as a fireplug 3-Technique and want to see him work in a true 4-3.




I had Brantley as a Late 1, EARLY 2 myself....
And Maybe Ogunjobi can hold at the NT.....I like it..

I really think if we can get the right mix at the Dline....and Greg Williams..."Williamizes" them.....I think the Dawg Pound might be back...but this time starting up front and not in the 2ndary...

(Williamize you heard it here first....LOL)
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NudeTayne


Joined: 12 Apr 2016
Posts: 306
PostPosted: Sun May 21, 2017 5:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

DaWg_LB. wrote:
BleedTheClock wrote:
I'd get rid of both Bryant and Meder to be honest. Desmond Bryant is a nice player, but I don't want him eating minutes away from the young guys. He isn't THAT good.

Caleb Brantley was one of my favorite players in this draft. I had an early 1st round grade on him & the draft forum would back that one up. I think he will become a dominant 3-Tech for us.


Larry Ogunjobi has the size of a 3-Tech, but he was VERY good in college as a NT eating up double teams. He played more snaps as a NT than he did as a 3-Tech. He's super strong and has a heck of an anchor. He can back up the NT spot, especially in a 4-3 where he won't be head up the C. Williams uses a lot of complex movement in his schemes, so I expect someone lining up as a 1-Tech (Ogunjobi) to end up in the 3-Tech hole after the ball is snapped.


LE: Ogbah/Nassib
NT: Shelton/Ogunjobi
ST: Brantley/Cooper
RE: Garrett/Orchard

Maybe we keep Meder or Bryant over Cooper, but I actually like Cooper as a fireplug 3-Technique and want to see him work in a true 4-3.




I had Brantley as a Late 1, EARLY 2 myself....
And Maybe Ogunjobi can hold at the NT.....I like it..

I really think if we can get the right mix at the Dline....and Greg Williams..."Williamizes" them.....I think the Dawg Pound might be back...but this time starting up front and not in the 2ndary...

(Williamize you heard it here first....LOL)


Speaking of getting Williamized...have you SEEN Greggy's wife? Yowza!

Oh, and this is after having given birth (in intervals) to six children!!!


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DizzyDean wrote:
hornbybrown wrote:
Garrett needs a nickname with dinosaurs
call him throbin hood, our defense throbin hood and his hairy men

DizzyDean wrote:
buno67 wrote:
sigh...swing and a miss yet again
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pnies20


Joined: 19 Dec 2007
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PostPosted: Sun May 21, 2017 9:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

roger murdock wrote:
Meder had wildly outperformed Cooper over the last 2.5 years. I'd be shocked if Cooper made the team.


Different defenses. We have 3 of the same player in Cooper, Brantley and Ogunjobi. Quick penetrating 3 techs. They have different personalities, though. It'll be THE camp battle to watch outside of QB and maybe RT.
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DaWg_LB.


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PostPosted: Mon May 22, 2017 7:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

NudeTayne wrote:

Speaking of getting Williamized...have you SEEN Greggy's wife? Yowza!

Oh, and this is after having given birth (in intervals) to six children!!!




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MSURacerDT55


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PostPosted: Mon May 22, 2017 10:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

pnies20 wrote:
roger murdock wrote:
Meder had wildly outperformed Cooper over the last 2.5 years. I'd be shocked if Cooper made the team.


Different defenses. We have 3 of the same player in Cooper, Brantley and Ogunjobi. Quick penetrating 3 techs. They have different personalities, though. It'll be THE camp battle to watch outside of QB and maybe RT.



Facts about the personality part. I just don't think Cooper has the temperament to mesh with Williams, Heck I am questioning the fit of Meder, but at least Meder is going to kick someone's butt. The same cannot be said for Cooper, he is kinda soft to me.

I mean, look at the theme of players we've brought in, even in FA and Draft, they all are tough, mean guys who like physical football.
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