You are currently viewing the old forums. We have upgraded to a new NFL Forum.
This old forum is being left as a read-only archive.
Please update your bookmarks to our new forum at forums.footballsfuture.com.


 FAQFAQ  RegisterRegister   ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 

FootballsFuture.com Forum Index
FootballsFuture.com Home

State of the AFC West
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4  Next
 
This forum is locked: you cannot post, reply to, or edit topics.   This topic is locked: you cannot edit posts or make replies.    FootballsFuture.com Forum Index -> Oakland Raiders
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Rolni


Joined: 08 Jun 2008
Posts: 3423
Location: Europe
PostPosted: Fri May 26, 2017 5:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

EDGE

Chiefs are definately the 1st IMO.
Houston and Ford might be the best duo when healthy and Hali is a great rotational veteran.

The Broncos and Raiders squads are pretty head to head IMO. I would also give the edge to the Broncos here, because Ray is younger then Bruce and looks like the better pure rusher. We will se tho how much Ware's absence will be felt. I could go with 2a and 2b here.

Without Bosa the Chargers are last.


DL

Chiefs are again clear #1 to me. Jones and Bailey are dangerous and Logan is a solid NT.

The Chargers has to be the 2nd here with Bosa and Mebane.

I think we could easily be #3 here, since Denver was struggling here last year and since Malik took off. I think they got weaker at NT this offseason too.
If Mario can stay healthy and the Ward-Latham-Vanderdoes trio can develope we could easily take them over, but can agree the #4 spot for now.
_________________
WIN LOSE OR TIE...RAIDER FAN 'TIL I DIE!!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
oakdb36


Joined: 02 Mar 2006
Posts: 17060
PostPosted: Fri May 26, 2017 12:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rolni wrote:

I think we could easily be #3 here, since Denver was struggling here last year and since Malik took off. I think they got weaker at NT this offseason too.
If Mario can stay healthy and the Ward-Latham-Vanderdoes trio can develope we could easily take them over, but can agree the #4 spot for now.


Denver isn't too far off from us but i give them the edge because Wolfe is an established player already. MEJ showed some potential but it was a season ago now.
_________________
Plush wrote:
Papa was a trolling stone
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
attack_in_s/b


Joined: 11 Aug 2010
Posts: 1077
PostPosted: Fri May 26, 2017 3:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Idk I think it's all moot points - we clearly had the worst defence in our division last year by a pretty substantial margin.... we have Mack. That's it. He's our defence. We have a lot of early investments on that side of the ball but none of them have proven anything.

We're hoping we struck gold with guys like Joseph, Conley, obi, Edwards, ward, Calhoun, vanderdoes etc but we can't speak to any of them as being contributors at this point in time.

Our offence carried this team all year year and it seems like we may have forgotten that in threads like this. Carr NEEDED to put up 30 points a game for us to win - outside of a handful of timely turnovers our defence as a whole wasn't great for much.

The other 3 teams in our division all have above average to top 10 defences. There's no comparison. There's also no comparison between our offence and the rest of our division. We don't need the broncos defence - we just need one that can put up more resistance and play more disciplined. That combined with what (on paper) should be an offence better at sustaining longer drives should be enough.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
oakdb36


Joined: 02 Mar 2006
Posts: 17060
PostPosted: Mon May 29, 2017 5:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

attack_in_s/b wrote:
Idk I think it's all moot points - we clearly had the worst defence in our division last year by a pretty substantial margin.... we have Mack. That's it. He's our defence. We have a lot of early investments on that side of the ball but none of them have proven anything.

We're hoping we struck gold with guys like Joseph, Conley, obi, Edwards, ward, Calhoun, vanderdoes etc but we can't speak to any of them as being contributors at this point in time.

Our offence carried this team all year year and it seems like we may have forgotten that in threads like this. Carr NEEDED to put up 30 points a game for us to win - outside of a handful of timely turnovers our defence as a whole wasn't great for much.

The other 3 teams in our division all have above average to top 10 defences. There's no comparison. There's also no comparison between our offence and the rest of our division. We don't need the broncos defence - we just need one that can put up more resistance and play more disciplined. That combined with what (on paper) should be an offence better at sustaining longer drives should be enough.


I'm not sure what part of this thread you were adressing there but i'll just say this is about trying to preview the upcoming season. Players have been lost and added, coaches have been fired and signed, schemes have changed. It's a new season and things probably won't play out exactly the same.
_________________
Plush wrote:
Papa was a trolling stone
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
oakdb36


Joined: 02 Mar 2006
Posts: 17060
PostPosted: Mon May 29, 2017 8:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ILBs

Chiefs: Derrick Johnson/Ramik Wilson/Justin March-Lillard/D.J Alexander/Dadi Nicolas/Ukeme Eligwe/Terrance Smith/Reshard Cliett


Johnson tore his ACL in december for the second time in 3 years. He's turning 35 this year and no one knows how well he can come back from his injury. He's expected to be ready for TC but he was already showing signs of his age when healthy in 2016 so it's fair to say his best days are behind him. KC was expected to adress the position but really didn't do much about it other than drafting Eligwe in the 5th. Wilson was good as a starter last season after being surprisingly waived at the end of TC (and put on the PS). He should hold onto a starting spot. March-Lillard has spent most of his pro career on IR up to this point but could be forced to start if Johnson isn't ready. Alexander made the Pro Bowl as a STer last season but isn't a factor on D.

Raiders: Cory James/Jelani Jenkins/Marquel Lee/Ben Heeney/Neiron Ball/Tyrell Adams/Xavier Woodson-Luster/Nicholas Morrow/Najee Harris


One year later and the situation hasn't changed at the position. Malcolm Smith has been replaced by Jenkins. It could be a slight upgrade (especially in coverage) if Jenkins stays healthy. Perry Riley is still a FA so maybe he's brought back if the young guys don't look ready in TC. James was inconsistent in his rookie year but he was an athlete trying to learn a position he hadn't much experience in. He'll compete with Lee (his polar opposite; not a great athlete but a lot of experience) for a starting spot. Heeney looked awful before going on IR in 2016. Ball has played 6 games in 2 seasons which is right in line with his injury filled college career. Adams is a STer.

Broncos: Brandon Marshall/Todd Davis/Corey Nelson/Zaire Anderson/Quentin Gause/Kevin Snyder/Josh Banderas/Jerrol Garcia-Williams/Deon Hollins


Marshall struggled with injuries in 2016. He had developed into one of the best ILBs in the league. Todd Davis stepped up into the starting role last season and was solid. Nelson provides good depth behind those 2. Anderson was mostly a STer as a rookie. As for the depth behind those 4, i've never heard of those guys...

Chargers: Denzel Perryman/Jatavis Brown/Korey Toomer/Joshua Perry/James Onwualu/Nick Dzubnar/Mike Moore/Nigel Harris


Perryman was viewed as an emerging talent coming into 2016 but didn't live up to the hype. He wasn't bad but not the top player many expected. The revelation was Rookie Jatavis Brown who graded out as the 2nd best rookie LB behind Deion Jones according to PFF. Not bad for an undersized 5th round pick. The Chargers signed Toomer off the Raiders PS and he ended up starting 8 games and playing pretty well for them. It'll be interesting to see how Bradley utilize those 3. Perry and Onwualu provide decent depth.


ILB Ranking:


1 - Chargers
2 - Broncos
3 - Chiefs
4 - Raiders
_________________
Plush wrote:
Papa was a trolling stone
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
attack_in_s/b


Joined: 11 Aug 2010
Posts: 1077
PostPosted: Mon May 29, 2017 12:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

oakdb36 wrote:
attack_in_s/b wrote:
Idk I think it's all moot points - we clearly had the worst defence in our division last year by a pretty substantial margin.... we have Mack. That's it. He's our defence. We have a lot of early investments on that side of the ball but none of them have proven anything.

We're hoping we struck gold with guys like Joseph, Conley, obi, Edwards, ward, Calhoun, vanderdoes etc but we can't speak to any of them as being contributors at this point in time.

Our offence carried this team all year year and it seems like we may have forgotten that in threads like this. Carr NEEDED to put up 30 points a game for us to win - outside of a handful of timely turnovers our defence as a whole wasn't great for much.

The other 3 teams in our division all have above average to top 10 defences. There's no comparison. There's also no comparison between our offence and the rest of our division. We don't need the broncos defence - we just need one that can put up more resistance and play more disciplined. That combined with what (on paper) should be an offence better at sustaining longer drives should be enough.


I'm not sure what part of this thread you were adressing there but i'll just say this is about trying to preview the upcoming season. Players have been lost and added, coaches have been fired and signed, schemes have changed. It's a new season and things probably won't play out exactly the same.


I understand that I'm just pointing out that it'd be misplaced hope to assume our defence is going to be comparable to our rivals - all of whom have very good defences. Hopefully they're better than last year and I think they will but we are so heavily Mack-centralized and I don't see that changing this year. Hopefully our secondary improves, so many times last year Mack was a half a step off - Coverage sacks were not a luxury he had. Hopefully Conley can make an instant impact and Joseph keeps improving. Obi might take some time but I really like the pick and I think if used properly he could make an instant impact.

I'm not trying to be the downer here - just trying to keep things in perspective. The chiefs and broncos both have defences that can win games - I don't think we do. last year it was 95% offence responsible for our wins and I don't think that's going to change. I'm hopeful our defence can continue to win the turnover battle and ideally only need our offence to score 20-25 points a game to win instead of 30+.

What I think should actually help our defence a lot is the additions on offence. IMO a big problem last year was t.o.p. at points in the game. Lots of times our d got stuck on the field for long stints - either from consecutive 3 and outs or the offence scoring really fast. We were reliant on big plays on the outside because we didn't have a consistent ground game or viable targets in the short areas. With the additions of lynch and cook i think we should have a lot more success sustaining longer drives which should keep Mack and co fresh. Cook might actually be one of the best signings of the offseason across the league - if healthy he is BY FAR the best tight end Carr has ever had and we don't really have any great slot options to operate the middle of the field either.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
oakdb36


Joined: 02 Mar 2006
Posts: 17060
PostPosted: Mon May 29, 2017 1:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ok. I don't think you're a downer, our D should probably be ranked dead last at this point.
The closest thing to a complete team (or most balanced) in the West is the Chargers, imo. It's a bit surprising when they finished last in 2016 but they lost a lot of close games to start the season and they seem to have half their starters end up on IR basically every year.
_________________
Plush wrote:
Papa was a trolling stone
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Rolni


Joined: 08 Jun 2008
Posts: 3423
Location: Europe
PostPosted: Tue May 30, 2017 6:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree with the ILB rakings.
_________________
WIN LOSE OR TIE...RAIDER FAN 'TIL I DIE!!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
oakdb36


Joined: 02 Mar 2006
Posts: 17060
PostPosted: Tue May 30, 2017 5:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

CBs

Chiefs: Marcus Peters/Steven Nelson/Phillip Gaines/Terrance Mitchell/D.J White/Kenneth Acker/DeVante Bausby/Stanley Jean-Baptiste/J.R Nelson/Ashton Lampkin


Peters is a playmaking CB but he's no shutdown type. At the rate he's getting his hands on the ball, the Chiefs can live with the plays he gives up. On the other side, it's a wide open competition between Gaines, Mitchell and Nelson. Mitchell might have a slight lead after playing pretty well to end last season. Nelson is their nickel guy. White had a rough rookie season but you could do worse for a 5th CB. Acker has starting experience with SF as well. That makes for solid depth.

Raiders: Sean Smith/David Amerson/Gareon Conley/T.J Carrie/Dexter McDonald/Antonio Hamilton/Kenneth Durden/Breon Borders/Chris Humes


Sean Smith had a rough start to his Raiders' career. The first 2 games were awful but he rebounded from that and was above average (statistically) the rest of the way. The thing with Smith is he's a system CB, he can't play in every scheme and he's not the quickest so he struggles against smaller WRs. On the other side, Amerson started the season on fire but couldn't sustain this level of play throughout the season. He should be facing competition from Conley for the LCB spot in TC (if Conley is cleared). Even if Amerson loses his starting status, he should be on the field a lot as the 3rd CB. Carrie is a very solid 4th CB and offers some versatility with his ability to play anywhere in the secondary. The 5th spot looks wide open and will be an interesting battle to follow in TC.

Broncos: Aqib Talib/Chris Harris/Bradley Roby/Brendan Langley/Lorenzo Doss/Taurean Nixon/Marcus Rios/Dontrell Nelson


Talib and Harris are the NFL's best CB duo. Talib didn't give up more than 43 yards in a game in 2016 and didn't allow a TD all year! He was the best CB in the league. Harris wasn't far behind and has been consistently great for years now. Roby regressed a bit in 2016 but he's still a solid nickel with upside. They lost Keyvon Webster in FA but replaced him with Langley in the draft. He's pretty raw at this point. Doss did good with the few opportunities he got.

Chargers: Jason Verrett/Casey Hayward/Craig Mager/Desmond King/Trovon Reed/Trevor Williams/Randall Evans/Mike Lee/Michael Davis/Brandon Stewart/Brad Watson

Verrett is a very good CB when he's healthy but like so many Chargers, he's rarely healthy, having played in 24 games in 3 years. Hayward was a great FA signing in 2016 as he ended up leading the league in interceptions with 7 and was named 2nd team all pro. It came a bit out of nowhere so we'll see if he can do it for more than a season. The depth isn't great and rookie Desmond King should have a good shot to win the 3rd CB job. Reed seems to be his toughest competition heading into TC.


CBs Ranking:


1 - Broncos
2 - Chargers
3 - Raiders
4 - Chiefs
_________________
Plush wrote:
Papa was a trolling stone
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
oakdb36


Joined: 02 Mar 2006
Posts: 17060
PostPosted: Thu Jun 01, 2017 10:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

S

Chiefs: Eric Berry/Ron Parker/Daniel Sorensen/Eric Murray/Marqueston Huff/Leon McQuay/Jordan Sterns/Devin Chappell


Berry is the best safety in the division. He's great in coverage and good vs the run. Parker is an underrated player, coming off a season in which he led all safeties in passes defended. They form a pretty good starting duo. Sorensen is playing a lot in subpackages in a coverage S/LB role. Murray and FA addition Huff are STers.

Raiders: Reggie Nelson/Karl Joseph/Obi Melifonwu/Keith McGill/Shalom Luani/Rickey Jefferson/Anthony Cioffi/Marcus McWilson


Nelson was responsible for a lot of big plays last season and it was obvious he lost a bit of his range in the back end. He still led the team with 5 interceptions. It looks like he'll be the starting FS for one more year. Joseph had a solid rookie season with the only concern coming from his ability to matchup with TEs. Melifonwu is well suited to take on that specific role in his rookie season. We'll see how much he can contribute early on. With the recurring issue with TEs, he could make a huge difference for this D. McGill was bad and his spot seems far from safe. The rookies have a very good shot to make the roster to play ST. Hopefully, they won't have to do more than that.

Broncos: Darian Stewart/T.J Ward/Justin Simmons/Will Parks/Jamal Carter/Orion Stewart/Dymonte Thomas/Dante Barnett


Ward regressed a bit in 2016. He's still a solid run defender but he can be beat in coverage. Stewart was a better player overall and ended up making his 1st Pro Bowl (alternate). Their depth is unproven with a couple 2nd year players and a bunch of rookies. Simmons and Parks were mostly STers in their rookie years.

Chargers: Jahleel Addae/Dwight Lowery/Tre Boston/Rayshawn Jenkins/Adrian Phillips/Darrell Stuckey/Dexter McCoil/Adrian McDonald


Addae missed 8 games last season but played well when healthy. He's not a playmaker but he does his job. Lowery had big shoes to fill replacing Eric Weddle in 2016 and he proved he was nothing more than a stopgap. They added Boston not long ago and he could compete for a starting spot with Lowery. Jenkins was drafted in the 4th round this year and offers intriguing athleticism. he'll probably be limited to ST in year 1. Stuckey is a good STer so he should keep his roster spot. Phillips and McCoil probably won't survive cut day this season.


S Ranking:

1 - Chiefs
2 - Broncos
3 - Raiders
4 - Chargers
_________________
Plush wrote:
Papa was a trolling stone
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
oakdb36


Joined: 02 Mar 2006
Posts: 17060
PostPosted: Thu Jun 01, 2017 10:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Overall Defensive Ranking:


1 - Broncos

The Chiefs aren't far behind. Their CBs give them the edge.

2 - Chiefs

They're loaded on D but CB is a bit of a question mark after Peters.

3 - Chargers

They're a bit weak at S and don't have much depth overall.

4 - Raiders

The interior of the front 7 is a huge question mark at this point.
_________________
Plush wrote:
Papa was a trolling stone
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Rolni


Joined: 08 Jun 2008
Posts: 3423
Location: Europe
PostPosted: Fri Jun 02, 2017 7:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree with the S rankings!


I could agree with the overall D ranking too, but just for the sake of conversation I disagree.

The Denver might be the best defense statistically, because of their great secondary play, but I think the Chiefs are the better overall defense and I think the Chiefs are more dangerous.

The Chiefs have a better overall D IMO and they are more dangerous and also better personel wise against us IMO.
_________________
WIN LOSE OR TIE...RAIDER FAN 'TIL I DIE!!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
RaidersAreOne


Joined: 28 Jun 2008
Posts: 16832
Location: Canada, but don't worry... i'm not one of those damn dirty french.
PostPosted: Fri Jun 02, 2017 7:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Maclin out in KC.
_________________

#JihadWard
First jersey purchased: Jamarcus Russell.
Second jersey purchased: Rolando McClain.
Next purchases: Every Chiefs, Chargers and Broncos player.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Chiefer


Joined: 20 Nov 2009
Posts: 13849
Location: Somewhere in an Arizona Desert...
PostPosted: Tue Jun 06, 2017 10:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

RaidersAreOne wrote:
Maclin out in KC.
Tyreek the new #1

Hoping for a Steve Smith type impact
_________________
game3525 wrote:
Death, taxes, Andy Reid coming off a bye week.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
BayRaider


Joined: 01 Jun 2011
Posts: 5255
PostPosted: Tue Jun 06, 2017 1:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

For defense I'd put Chiefs ahead of the Broncos. Sure, the Chiefs D isn't "stout" every game but the rare games they aren't stout, they get a ridiculous amount of turnovers. One way or another, they produce. You're also really underrating their corners. Philip Gaines is a stud Terrance Mitchell is one of the most underrated Cornerbacks in the league. And Stevie Nelson isn't no slouch himself. A very very very good group of four guys.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   

This forum is locked: you cannot post, reply to, or edit topics.   This topic is locked: you cannot edit posts or make replies.    FootballsFuture.com Forum Index -> Oakland Raiders All times are GMT - 4 Hours
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4  Next
Page 3 of 4

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum




Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group