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CLE/NYJ/49ers- Figuring Out the '18 QB Race for a Top-2 Pick
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Iamcanadian


Joined: 16 Jan 2006
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Location: Wallaceburg, Ontario, Canada
PostPosted: Thu May 25, 2017 3:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

NudeTayne wrote:
Back to the question at hand, I disagree strongly that the Browns should even be considered in the top 3. On paper, Cleveland is one year deeper into developing some quality young players and made major upgrades to the OL in free agency. I expect someone(s) to shine at QB. I expect Gregg to do wonders with Garrett & an upgraded defense. I honestly see us more in the 8-8 range very realistically. I believe the Steelers take the division again, though I can see us challenging for the 2nd spot. I don't see a top 5 pick for us. When we don't have a shot at one of the top 2 QBs, the Kizer pick might start looking much more shrewd.


Could not disagree more. Without a QB we are dead in the water just holding on as a consistent losing team. You can expect someone to shine at QB, but IMO, that is a huge longshot based on wishful thinking alone and not based on any reality. There is currently no QB on our roster that is going to shine next season.

The Browns at best, will win 5 games or possibly even less. Our offense will remain pitiful until a franchise QB is drafted and that still takes an awful lot of luck, no matter how high you are drafting. Our defense will be definitely improved, but it will be on the field so long in each game, that it will fold under the stress.

We will be challenging for the second spot all right, the 2nd spot in the draft, if not the first all over again.
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buno67


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PostPosted: Thu May 25, 2017 8:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kiwibrown wrote:

Regarding our DT Iwould use Ogjo and Shelton together on clear running situations, one of them in possible run pass situations and then neither when it is pure pass rush. .


I don't know I think Ogunjobi could be good on pure pass rush situations. Dude didn't have many sacks in college but damn did he have a lot of TFLs. You don't see many NTs get sack so I won't hold that against him but he showed a lot of disengaging blocks and shedding blocks to make plays behind the line of scrimmage. Don't really need interior guys to get sacks, really need them to just pressure the QB enough that he won't step up and under cut a speed rush.
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MSURacerDT55


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PostPosted: Thu May 25, 2017 8:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Iamcanadian wrote:
NudeTayne wrote:
Back to the question at hand, I disagree strongly that the Browns should even be considered in the top 3. On paper, Cleveland is one year deeper into developing some quality young players and made major upgrades to the OL in free agency. I expect someone(s) to shine at QB. I expect Gregg to do wonders with Garrett & an upgraded defense. I honestly see us more in the 8-8 range very realistically. I believe the Steelers take the division again, though I can see us challenging for the 2nd spot. I don't see a top 5 pick for us. When we don't have a shot at one of the top 2 QBs, the Kizer pick might start looking much more shrewd.


Could not disagree more. Without a QB we are dead in the water just holding on as a consistent losing team. You can expect someone to shine at QB, but IMO, that is a huge longshot based on wishful thinking alone and not based on any reality. There is currently no QB on our roster that is going to shine next season.

The Browns at best, will win 5 games or possibly even less. Our offense will remain pitiful until a franchise QB is drafted and that still takes an awful lot of luck, no matter how high you are drafting. Our defense will be definitely improved, but it will be on the field so long in each game, that it will fold under the stress.

We will be challenging for the second spot all right, the 2nd spot in the draft, if not the first all over again.


Come on bro, outside the San Diego win, we could have won 4 more games but lost due to some freak types of circumstances, bum taunting call, missed field goals, poor officiating, couldn't hold 2nd half leads with the horrible roster and coordinators we had last year. Also, as history states it doesn't have to be all or nothing with the QB play, Obviously we want franchise QB play but if every other aspect of the game improves from last year i.e, offensive line, defense, special teams we can win with AVERAGE QB play. You obviously are just looking at it from the QB prospective which isn't fair, hell, being able to get off the field on 3rd and long, and being able to hold a second half lead with get us 6 wins. Being able to salt away the clock with a 4 minute offense, being able to pin teams deep in their own territory and make teams go 3 and out, will help our offense, great returns from punt and kick returns will help our offense, being able to get first downs running the ball will help our offense. I respect your opinion, I just think its short sighted, we aren't going to go from 1 win to 12, we aren't going to go from our QB situation to instantly having a franchise QB, but we can get steady, competent QB play this year, we don't need whoever our QB to be Aaron Rogers, just move the chains. Hell, look at what Dallas did last year with Prescott, he was steady, he wasn't a world beater, he just moved the chains when they needed it, they had great complementary football.


That's that old Cleveland mindset Iamcanadian, at worst we win 5-6 games, at best we win 7-8 games. If we do, it will be because of all areas of the team supporting each other, ST, defense, offense.


Also, Iamcanadian are you camfromcanada on twitter?
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DizzyDean


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PostPosted: Thu May 25, 2017 3:21 pm    Post subject: Re: hmmmm Reply with quote

NudeTayne wrote:
DizzyDean wrote:
Buttheat


lol excellent, now we have beavis and butthead.... and stewart!

https://vignette2.wikia.nocookie.net/beavisandbutthead/images/7/7a/Stewart.jpeg/revision/latest?cb=20110910035309
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jkb_63


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PostPosted: Fri May 26, 2017 3:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I will be interested to see how all three QB's (Kessler, Osweiler, and Kizer) are evaluated by this forum as the season progresses. I feel, unless Kessler does something boneheaded or gets hurt in preseason, he is our Game 1 starter. The backup role early in the season I believe will belong to Osweiler, due to experience with NFL concepts and playbooks as well as satisfactory physical tools. Although, once the season gets deeper there may be a "showcase" opportunity for Kizer to see what he's learned, how he applies it, and if there's any chance that his positive development would eschew selecting a 1st Round QB in 2018.

I say all this, hoping for one of the three (Heck, I'm still a Kessler fan, as I thought he had a very good developmental 1st season) to seize the reigns and show the coaches & fanbase that we need look no further.

One thing that worries me is the lack of burgeoning skill players surrounding our QB's. Britt feels like just an okay stopgap. Coleman had some flashes, but is still a huge question mark. And I still have no idea why the immediate cut of Barnidge, when Njoku may still need some time to adjust. I know we invested in our O-line, but the evaluation can still get very tricky for our QB's unless one of them miraculously lifts everyone's level of play around him.
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Kiwibrown


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PostPosted: Fri May 26, 2017 5:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

buno67 wrote:
Kiwibrown wrote:

Regarding our DT Iwould use Ogjo and Shelton together on clear running situations, one of them in possible run pass situations and then neither when it is pure pass rush. .


I don't know I think Ogunjobi could be good on pure pass rush situations. Dude didn't have many sacks in college but damn did he have a lot of TFLs. You don't see many NTs get sack so I won't hold that against him but he showed a lot of disengaging blocks and shedding blocks to make plays behind the line of scrimmage. Don't really need interior guys to get sacks, really need them to just pressure the QB enough that he won't step up and under cut a speed rush.


I figured Brantley would be the better pass rushing tackle, and Ogjo the run suffer.

I could see Larry and Danny being an awesome run stopping combination.
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DizzyDean


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PostPosted: Fri May 26, 2017 5:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

jkb_63 wrote:
I will be interested to see how all three QB's (Kessler, Osweiler, and Kizer) are evaluated by this forum as the season progresses. I feel, unless Kessler does something boneheaded or gets hurt in preseason, he is our Game 1 starter. The backup role early in the season I believe will belong to Osweiler, due to experience with NFL concepts and playbooks as well as satisfactory physical tools. Although, once the season gets deeper there may be a "showcase" opportunity for Kizer to see what he's learned, how he applies it, and if there's any chance that his positive development would eschew selecting a 1st Round QB in 2018.

I say all this, hoping for one of the three (Heck, I'm still a Kessler fan, as I thought he had a very good developmental 1st season) to seize the reigns and show the coaches & fanbase that we need look no further.

One thing that worries me is the lack of burgeoning skill players surrounding our QB's. Britt feels like just an okay stopgap. Coleman had some flashes, but is still a huge question mark. And I still have no idea why the immediate cut of Barnidge, when Njoku may still need some time to adjust. I know we invested in our O-line, but the evaluation can still get very tricky for our QB's unless one of them miraculously lifts everyone's level of play around him.


I believe that this is a pretty fair assessment. I think Kessler and Osweiler at this point are pretty close to on even ground when it comes to who gets the nod week 1.

I do hope that you are dead wrong about Kizer getting some "showcase" time. Nothing against the kid, I hope he proves to be a very good Cleveland Browns player. But I think he needs at least a full year as a red shirt, and we need stability at the position above all else right now as a team. Whoever wins the spot in the preseason, I hope they are our starter wire to wire. Musical chairs at QB is a disaster.

Much like you, I just want someone to win the spot, take the ball and run with it so that we don't need a QB moving forward. I want that question finally answered once and for all (well at least for the next 10 plus years). Doesn't matter to me if its Kessler, Osweiler, Kizer or even Hogan. I just want a very good QB that we can count on for a long long time.
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jkb_63


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PostPosted: Fri May 26, 2017 10:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

DizzyDean wrote:
I do hope that you are dead wrong about Kizer getting some "showcase" time. Nothing against the kid, I hope he proves to be a very good Cleveland Browns player. But I think he needs at least a full year as a red shirt, and we need stability at the position above all else right now as a team. Whoever wins the spot in the preseason, I hope they are our starter wire to wire. Musical chairs at QB is a disaster.


I'm just spitballing, but based on schedule I'm forseeing a 2-6 or possibly 3-5 start before our Week 9 BYE, and a 3 of 4 road game stretch coming out where we maybe get one win. So going into Week 14 home against GB, we'll be 3-9 or 4-8 with 4 games to play. That's where I'm guessing (not hoping, just guessing) that we see Kizer come out, if Kessler and/or Osweiler haven't shown enough promise.

HOT TAKE!
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DizzyDean


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PostPosted: Fri May 26, 2017 10:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

jkb_63 wrote:
DizzyDean wrote:
I do hope that you are dead wrong about Kizer getting some "showcase" time. Nothing against the kid, I hope he proves to be a very good Cleveland Browns player. But I think he needs at least a full year as a red shirt, and we need stability at the position above all else right now as a team. Whoever wins the spot in the preseason, I hope they are our starter wire to wire. Musical chairs at QB is a disaster.


I'm just spitballing, but based on schedule I'm forseeing a 2-6 or possibly 3-5 start before our Week 9 BYE, and a 3 of 4 road game stretch coming out where we maybe get one win. So going into Week 14 home against GB, we'll be 3-9 or 4-8 with 4 games to play. That's where I'm guessing (not hoping, just guessing) that we see Kizer come out, if Kessler and/or Osweiler haven't shown enough promise.

HOT TAKE!


Not saying that you are wrong, but throwing him into the fire, when he is simply not ready, is a good way to crush his confidence and ruin him. Some QBs are ready to go out of the gates, some are not, some benefit greatly from sitting for a year or even more. Rodgers comes to mind, unfortunately we have no first ballot hall of fame QB for him to sit behind (at least we do not project to as I don't think Kessler, Osweiler, or Hogan will be first ballot hall of famers.)
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Thomas5737


Joined: 23 Dec 2009
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PostPosted: Sat May 27, 2017 12:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

DizzyDean wrote:
jkb_63 wrote:
DizzyDean wrote:
I do hope that you are dead wrong about Kizer getting some "showcase" time. Nothing against the kid, I hope he proves to be a very good Cleveland Browns player. But I think he needs at least a full year as a red shirt, and we need stability at the position above all else right now as a team. Whoever wins the spot in the preseason, I hope they are our starter wire to wire. Musical chairs at QB is a disaster.


I'm just spitballing, but based on schedule I'm forseeing a 2-6 or possibly 3-5 start before our Week 9 BYE, and a 3 of 4 road game stretch coming out where we maybe get one win. So going into Week 14 home against GB, we'll be 3-9 or 4-8 with 4 games to play. That's where I'm guessing (not hoping, just guessing) that we see Kizer come out, if Kessler and/or Osweiler haven't shown enough promise.

HOT TAKE!


Not saying that you are wrong, but throwing him into the fire, when he is simply not ready, is a good way to crush his confidence and ruin him. Some QBs are ready to go out of the gates, some are not, some benefit greatly from sitting for a year or even more. Rodgers comes to mind, unfortunately we have no first ballot hall of fame QB for him to sit behind (at least we do not project to as I don't think Kessler, Osweiler, or Hogan will be first ballot hall of famers.)


There is no real way of knowing if a QB who sat wouldn't have been great out of the gate or a QB who started and sucked would have benefited from sitting. That is all speculation.

As far as a QB losing their confidence, I don't buy that excuse for any of them. If you can lose your confidence you eventually will in the NFL. You can be in a bad situation and not be given a real chance to succeed and get the stuffing knocked out of you preventing you from ever being good (see Tim Couch) but I don't believe he ever lost his confidence nor would any QB that has the ability to be a good QB. They fail too often to not lose their confidence somewhere along the way.

Some do get jittery and that is just as bad but again that will happen eventually to any QB. If you have one that is prone to that or prone to losing their confidence you have a bad QB no matter when he starts.
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DizzyDean


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PostPosted: Sat May 27, 2017 2:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thomas5737 wrote:
DizzyDean wrote:
jkb_63 wrote:
DizzyDean wrote:
I do hope that you are dead wrong about Kizer getting some "showcase" time. Nothing against the kid, I hope he proves to be a very good Cleveland Browns player. But I think he needs at least a full year as a red shirt, and we need stability at the position above all else right now as a team. Whoever wins the spot in the preseason, I hope they are our starter wire to wire. Musical chairs at QB is a disaster.


I'm just spitballing, but based on schedule I'm forseeing a 2-6 or possibly 3-5 start before our Week 9 BYE, and a 3 of 4 road game stretch coming out where we maybe get one win. So going into Week 14 home against GB, we'll be 3-9 or 4-8 with 4 games to play. That's where I'm guessing (not hoping, just guessing) that we see Kizer come out, if Kessler and/or Osweiler haven't shown enough promise.

HOT TAKE!


Not saying that you are wrong, but throwing him into the fire, when he is simply not ready, is a good way to crush his confidence and ruin him. Some QBs are ready to go out of the gates, some are not, some benefit greatly from sitting for a year or even more. Rodgers comes to mind, unfortunately we have no first ballot hall of fame QB for him to sit behind (at least we do not project to as I don't think Kessler, Osweiler, or Hogan will be first ballot hall of famers.)


There is no real way of knowing if a QB who sat wouldn't have been great out of the gate or a QB who started and sucked would have benefited from sitting. That is all speculation.

As far as a QB losing their confidence, I don't buy that excuse for any of them. If you can lose your confidence you eventually will in the NFL. You can be in a bad situation and not be given a real chance to succeed and get the stuffing knocked out of you preventing you from ever being good (see Tim Couch) but I don't believe he ever lost his confidence nor would any QB that has the ability to be a good QB. They fail too often to not lose their confidence somewhere along the way.

Some do get jittery and that is just as bad but again that will happen eventually to any QB. If you have one that is prone to that or prone to losing their confidence you have a bad QB no matter when he starts.


Can these things be proven? Not really, but evidence definitely supports it and I do believe them beyond a shadow of a doubt. I point to Mr. Steve Young as an example. He was pretty terrible in Tampa Bay. Came to San Francisco, sat for a while learning from Bill Walsh, watching Joe Montana, and turned into one of the all time greats.

Thomas5737 wrote:
If you have one that is prone to that or prone to losing their confidence you have a bad QB no matter when he starts.


I sure hope that you are wrong because Kizer's confidence already sounds very shaky to me in the interview up at clevelandbrowns.com

PS, the Steve young example is another good one as to why you should not be so eager to give up on a qb with prototypical tools and ability after one bad season with an inept coach.
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Thomas5737


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PostPosted: Sat May 27, 2017 3:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

DizzyDean wrote:
Thomas5737 wrote:
DizzyDean wrote:
jkb_63 wrote:
DizzyDean wrote:
I do hope that you are dead wrong about Kizer getting some "showcase" time. Nothing against the kid, I hope he proves to be a very good Cleveland Browns player. But I think he needs at least a full year as a red shirt, and we need stability at the position above all else right now as a team. Whoever wins the spot in the preseason, I hope they are our starter wire to wire. Musical chairs at QB is a disaster.


I'm just spitballing, but based on schedule I'm forseeing a 2-6 or possibly 3-5 start before our Week 9 BYE, and a 3 of 4 road game stretch coming out where we maybe get one win. So going into Week 14 home against GB, we'll be 3-9 or 4-8 with 4 games to play. That's where I'm guessing (not hoping, just guessing) that we see Kizer come out, if Kessler and/or Osweiler haven't shown enough promise.

HOT TAKE!


Not saying that you are wrong, but throwing him into the fire, when he is simply not ready, is a good way to crush his confidence and ruin him. Some QBs are ready to go out of the gates, some are not, some benefit greatly from sitting for a year or even more. Rodgers comes to mind, unfortunately we have no first ballot hall of fame QB for him to sit behind (at least we do not project to as I don't think Kessler, Osweiler, or Hogan will be first ballot hall of famers.)


There is no real way of knowing if a QB who sat wouldn't have been great out of the gate or a QB who started and sucked would have benefited from sitting. That is all speculation.

As far as a QB losing their confidence, I don't buy that excuse for any of them. If you can lose your confidence you eventually will in the NFL. You can be in a bad situation and not be given a real chance to succeed and get the stuffing knocked out of you preventing you from ever being good (see Tim Couch) but I don't believe he ever lost his confidence nor would any QB that has the ability to be a good QB. They fail too often to not lose their confidence somewhere along the way.

Some do get jittery and that is just as bad but again that will happen eventually to any QB. If you have one that is prone to that or prone to losing their confidence you have a bad QB no matter when he starts.


Can these things be proven? Not really, but evidence definitely supports it and I do believe them beyond a shadow of a doubt. I point to Mr. Steve Young as an example. He was pretty terrible in Tampa Bay. Came to San Francisco, sat for a while learning from Bill Walsh, watching Joe Montana, and turned into one of the all time greats.

Thomas5737 wrote:
If you have one that is prone to that or prone to losing their confidence you have a bad QB no matter when he starts.


I sure hope that you are wrong because Kizer's confidence already sounds very shaky to me in the interview up at clevelandbrowns.com


So your proof of a player not starting right away and sitting and learning to be beneficial is a player who started 19 games in his first 2 seasons (55 in his first 3 seasons counting the USFL)?

His 1st season with the 49ers he threw for 10 TD and 0 interceptions with a 129.5 rating. He never reached a rating that high again. Very Happy
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DizzyDean


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PostPosted: Sat May 27, 2017 5:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thomas5737 wrote:
DizzyDean wrote:
Thomas5737 wrote:
DizzyDean wrote:
jkb_63 wrote:
DizzyDean wrote:
I do hope that you are dead wrong about Kizer getting some "showcase" time. Nothing against the kid, I hope he proves to be a very good Cleveland Browns player. But I think he needs at least a full year as a red shirt, and we need stability at the position above all else right now as a team. Whoever wins the spot in the preseason, I hope they are our starter wire to wire. Musical chairs at QB is a disaster.


I'm just spitballing, but based on schedule I'm forseeing a 2-6 or possibly 3-5 start before our Week 9 BYE, and a 3 of 4 road game stretch coming out where we maybe get one win. So going into Week 14 home against GB, we'll be 3-9 or 4-8 with 4 games to play. That's where I'm guessing (not hoping, just guessing) that we see Kizer come out, if Kessler and/or Osweiler haven't shown enough promise.

HOT TAKE!


Not saying that you are wrong, but throwing him into the fire, when he is simply not ready, is a good way to crush his confidence and ruin him. Some QBs are ready to go out of the gates, some are not, some benefit greatly from sitting for a year or even more. Rodgers comes to mind, unfortunately we have no first ballot hall of fame QB for him to sit behind (at least we do not project to as I don't think Kessler, Osweiler, or Hogan will be first ballot hall of famers.)


There is no real way of knowing if a QB who sat wouldn't have been great out of the gate or a QB who started and sucked would have benefited from sitting. That is all speculation.

As far as a QB losing their confidence, I don't buy that excuse for any of them. If you can lose your confidence you eventually will in the NFL. You can be in a bad situation and not be given a real chance to succeed and get the stuffing knocked out of you preventing you from ever being good (see Tim Couch) but I don't believe he ever lost his confidence nor would any QB that has the ability to be a good QB. They fail too often to not lose their confidence somewhere along the way.

Some do get jittery and that is just as bad but again that will happen eventually to any QB. If you have one that is prone to that or prone to losing their confidence you have a bad QB no matter when he starts.


Can these things be proven? Not really, but evidence definitely supports it and I do believe them beyond a shadow of a doubt. I point to Mr. Steve Young as an example. He was pretty terrible in Tampa Bay. Came to San Francisco, sat for a while learning from Bill Walsh, watching Joe Montana, and turned into one of the all time greats.

Thomas5737 wrote:
If you have one that is prone to that or prone to losing their confidence you have a bad QB no matter when he starts.


I sure hope that you are wrong because Kizer's confidence already sounds very shaky to me in the interview up at clevelandbrowns.com


So your proof of a player not starting right away and sitting and learning to be beneficial is a player who started 19 games in his first 2 seasons (55 in his first 3 seasons counting the USFL)?

His 1st season with the 49ers he threw for 10 TD and 0 interceptions with a 129.5 rating. He never reached a rating that high again. Very Happy


His 2nd (and last) season in Tampa Bay, he played in, and started, 14 games. His stat line:

195 completions, 363 attempts, 53.7 completion percentage. 2282 yards, 8 TDs, 13 INTs, QB rating 65.5

His actual 1st season with SF (not his first season starting).

8 games, 3 games started.
37 completions, 69 attempts, 53.6% 570 yards, 10 TDs, 0 INTs, 120.8 rating.

His completion percentage stayed low, but the INTs dropped tremendously, and his rating nearly doubled. (Effect of a good coach, I think so). Very limited action, the next 3 years he also saw very limited action and was very up and down.

His first year starting, after sitting behind Montana for 4 seasons, 1991.

11 games, 10 starts, 180 completions, 279 attempts, 64.5% completion percentage, 2517 yards, 17 TDs, 8 INTs, 101.8.

During those 4 years sitting behind Joe Montana, his QB ratings were 120.8, 72.2, 120.8, and 92.6.

I have no idea what you were getting out, but yes, that is my idea, my example, and a darn good one at that.

I know the internet was not around back then, but I wonder how many SF fans were talking about how much he sucks when the 9ers traded a round 2 and a round 4 pick for him after putting up the above stat line from his final year in TB?

Not sure, I imagine a lot of them though, and guess what, every single one of them was wrong.

You do have a point about the USFL though, he played in 36 games there. Stats?

316 completions, 560 attempts, 69.8% 4102 yards, 16 TDs, 22 INTs, rating comes out to about 72.

Completion percentage was good in the USFL, not much else.

Further solidifying my point. At least Osweiler has played well and looked promising at the NFL level, prior to his bad year in Houston.

Young was not good his prior 2 years in TB (1 starting), nor the 2 years prior to that in the USFL.

Young's college career started good, and only got better the next 2 years, then regressed greatly his senior year.

Young was up and down in spot duty with SF prior to finally taking over the starting role, further solidifying my stance that he is a great example of the benefit to some QBs of sitting.

In short, prior to SF, 8 years, going all the way back through college, he had 3 good years (all in college), 4 bad years (all professional), and 1 mediocre year (senior season in college).

How is that for some research and something to sink your teeth into?
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Thomas5737


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PostPosted: Sat May 27, 2017 11:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

DizzyDean wrote:


How is that for some research and something to sink your teeth into?


Who is to say he didn't improve because of playing time and learning on the field? He had a much better rating in 1986 than Steve DeBerg did with the Bucs. That was a pathetic team and the tape shows he played much better than the stats.

From my memory the majority of people seemed to want Bono to take over for Montana instead of Young, I wasn't one of them. I don't recall hearing anyone complain about what was given up for him.
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PostPosted: Sat May 27, 2017 3:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Iamcanadian wrote:
NudeTayne wrote:
Back to the question at hand, I disagree strongly that the Browns should even be considered in the top 3. On paper, Cleveland is one year deeper into developing some quality young players and made major upgrades to the OL in free agency. I expect someone(s) to shine at QB. I expect Gregg to do wonders with Garrett & an upgraded defense. I honestly see us more in the 8-8 range very realistically. I believe the Steelers take the division again, though I can see us challenging for the 2nd spot. I don't see a top 5 pick for us. When we don't have a shot at one of the top 2 QBs, the Kizer pick might start looking much more shrewd.


Could not disagree more. Without a QB we are dead in the water just holding on as a consistent losing team. You can expect someone to shine at QB, but IMO, that is a huge longshot based on wishful thinking alone and not based on any reality. There is currently no QB on our roster that is going to shine next season.

The Browns at best, will win 5 games or possibly even less. Our offense will remain pitiful until a franchise QB is drafted and that still takes an awful lot of luck, no matter how high you are drafting. Our defense will be definitely improved, but it will be on the field so long in each game, that it will fold under the stress.

We will be challenging for the second spot all right, the 2nd spot in the draft, if not the first all over again.


Mostly agree with Nude on all this.

We are not going anywhere special this year regardless of who is QB.

I see 5 or more wins with Kessler due in large part to his experience in/ understanding of Hue's system, a full year of Coleman +Njoku, and improvements in his game, the OL, the run game and the D.

Put Brady at QB and it would not be much better. Now bring in McDaniels along with Brady and it might be a different story.

The Jets clearly are the favorite for pick #1 having brought on the designated tank QB McCown with SF not far behind.

I think we could and I would love to use our 2018 draft pick warchest on plugging the remaining holes on our roster but if we have to spend a lot of draft pick capital on a QB and we can get one we really like, so be it.

I am not convinced that Kizer will be "the guy" and by the time the 2018 draft roles around I am pretty sure that our braintrust will know whether he can be.
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