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jrl23


Joined: 11 Jun 2012
Posts: 150
PostPosted: Sat May 13, 2017 5:15 am    Post subject: Lamar Jackson Reply with quote

I've watched all of his games last year and while he needs to improve his accuracy, he still looks to have the skill set and tools to potentially be the number one pick in next years draft. That said, a lot of mock drafts for 2018 have omitted him. What is Lamar Jackson's ceiling and floor as a player?
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Ragnarok


Joined: 17 Oct 2016
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Location: Washington, DC
PostPosted: Sat May 13, 2017 6:08 am    Post subject: Re: Lamar Jackson Reply with quote

jrl23 wrote:
I've watched all of his games last year and while he needs to improve his accuracy, he still looks to have the skill set and tools to potentially be the number one pick in next years draft. That said, a lot of mock drafts for 2018 have omitted him. What is Lamar Jackson's ceiling and floor as a player?


Floor is RG3/Kaepernick. Comes in, starts off strong due to his athleticism, then teams figure him out, he doesn't have the mental ability/footwork/pocket ability to progress as a passer, and flames out.

Ceiling is Cam Newton. Able to blend his ridiculous athletic ability with the ability to pass from the pocket as he matures.

I personally think he'll be more towards the floor side of things. He has a massive jump to be able to handle an NFL offense.
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PossibleCabbage


Joined: 25 Apr 2011
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PostPosted: Sat May 13, 2017 9:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think he'll be good, but I also feel like he's going to get unfairly picked apart during the pre-draft process There are times when it seems like "can't run at all" benefits QBs more in the eyes of evaluators than "can run really well."
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Rich7sena


Joined: 12 Sep 2009
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PostPosted: Sat May 13, 2017 10:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

PossibleCabbage wrote:
I think he'll be good, but I also feel like he's going to get unfairly picked apart during the pre-draft process There are times when it seems like "can't run at all" benefits QBs more in the eyes of evaluators than "can run really well."

There is some truth to the idea that quarterbacks who don't have the crutch of plus athleticism develop more as passers. Lamar Jackson has some obvious short comings as a passer, but I also think his overall athleticism makes up for a lot of those deficiencies in the same way it does for Cam Newton or did for Michael Vick. Unlike Newton, though, Jackson has a very slight frame which hasn't proven to hold up well in the NFL.
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SteelKing728


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PostPosted: Sat May 13, 2017 11:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

If he doesn't improve as a QB, could he move to WR perhaps in the pros?
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48 1/2ers


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PostPosted: Sat May 13, 2017 11:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

SteelKing728 wrote:
If he doesn't improve as a QB, could he move to WR perhaps in the pros?

I think he could but I'd want my team to try him out at QB first. Give him a year of professional coaching at the QB position then if he fails there try him out at WR in year 3 or something.
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CalhounLambeau


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PostPosted: Sat May 13, 2017 12:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

http://www.footballsfuture.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=581114&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0
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freak_of_nature


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PostPosted: Sat May 13, 2017 12:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Seems to be more Vick than CK or RG3
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Ragnarok


Joined: 17 Oct 2016
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PostPosted: Sat May 13, 2017 12:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

freak_of_nature wrote:
Seems to be more Vick than CK or RG3


I thought about Vick, but I hesitate to compare any QB prospect to him because he was just that incredible of an athlete.

That said, I forgot to mention Vince Young when saying his floor. I think that's a better comparison than RG3 or Kaep.
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LuckIsGOAT


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PostPosted: Sat May 13, 2017 5:35 pm    Post subject: Re: Lamar Jackson Reply with quote

Ragnarok wrote:
jrl23 wrote:
I've watched all of his games last year and while he needs to improve his accuracy, he still looks to have the skill set and tools to potentially be the number one pick in next years draft. That said, a lot of mock drafts for 2018 have omitted him. What is Lamar Jackson's ceiling and floor as a player?


Floor is RG3/Kaepernick. Comes in, starts off strong due to his athleticism, then teams figure him out, he doesn't have the mental ability/footwork/pocket ability to progress as a passer, and flames out.

Ceiling is Cam Newton. Able to blend his ridiculous athletic ability with the ability to pass from the pocket as he matures.

I personally think he'll be more towards the floor side of things. He has a massive jump to be able to handle an NFL offense.


You must think NFL DCs are morons. Neither RG3 or Kap were "figured out" RG3 was killed by injuries, Kap was never great and really struggled when his OL went from best in the NFL to below average
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Ragnarok


Joined: 17 Oct 2016
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PostPosted: Sat May 13, 2017 5:59 pm    Post subject: Re: Lamar Jackson Reply with quote

LuckIsGOAT wrote:
Ragnarok wrote:
jrl23 wrote:
I've watched all of his games last year and while he needs to improve his accuracy, he still looks to have the skill set and tools to potentially be the number one pick in next years draft. That said, a lot of mock drafts for 2018 have omitted him. What is Lamar Jackson's ceiling and floor as a player?


Floor is RG3/Kaepernick. Comes in, starts off strong due to his athleticism, then teams figure him out, he doesn't have the mental ability/footwork/pocket ability to progress as a passer, and flames out.

Ceiling is Cam Newton. Able to blend his ridiculous athletic ability with the ability to pass from the pocket as he matures.

I personally think he'll be more towards the floor side of things. He has a massive jump to be able to handle an NFL offense.


You must think NFL DCs are morons. Neither RG3 or Kap were "figured out" RG3 was killed by injuries, Kap was never great and really struggled when his OL went from best in the NFL to below average


The RG3 comparison wasn't the best, which is why I mentioned Vince Young instead. However, the point remains that he relied on his athleticism a ton his rookie year and never developed as a pocket passer. So when the elite athleticism fell some, he wasn't able to compensate in other areas to still be successful.

I'd disagree on Kaep though, DCs figured out that if you kept him in the pocket, he would struggle. While the talent level around him did fall, he never made the strides necessary to be able to work consistently from the pocket and DCs used that against him.

It ties into why players sometimes have the sophomore slump, VY being a classic example of that. DCs have a season worth of tape to help them gameplan and exploit the weaknesses in a young player. And if said young player doesn't improve on those weaknesses for whatever reason, they're screwed. I don't think DCs are morons at all, but it's a lot easier to gameplan for someone when you have more than college tape or a couple of NFL starts to look at.
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PossibleCabbage


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PostPosted: Sat May 13, 2017 7:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The thing about a lot of these comparisons, is they're to guys who fell off for things that we're largely out of their control or had nothing to do with on-field play, whether it's off field stuff (Vick), Injury (Vick, RG3), Incompatibility with Coaches/Scheme (Kaepernick, Vick, RG3), etc.

So I don't know elucidating any of these comps are. I figure if you told an NFL GM who needed a QB they had another shot at Vintage Mike Vick, a lot of them are going to jump at that and wouldn't be wrong to do so.
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Ragnarok


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PostPosted: Sat May 13, 2017 8:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

PossibleCabbage wrote:
The thing about a lot of these comparisons, is they're to guys who fell off for things that we're largely out of their control or had nothing to do with on-field play, whether it's off field stuff (Vick), Injury (Vick, RG3), Incompatibility with Coaches/Scheme (Kaepernick, Vick, RG3), etc.

So I don't know elucidating any of these comps are. I figure if you told an NFL GM who needed a QB they had another shot at Vintage Mike Vick, a lot of them are going to jump at that and wouldn't be wrong to do so.


I would point to the coaches/scheme part being largely tied to those QBs inability to develop as a passer/read defenses/handle the mental aspect. Obviously, continuity in the coaching staff and having coaches capable of adapting a scheme to their QBs' strengths is very important. But I personally don't think VY or Kaep would have had continued success regardless of their coach due to their shortcomings as passers(I know Kaep's downfall correlated with Harbaugh leaving, but correlation and causation and all that). And the comps were directed to the initial question of floor and ceiling.

And yes, if a GM thought they had a shot at vintage Vick, I don't disagree with you. But that would be looking at the ceiling of Lamar. Just depends on how they think he progresses and can handle the mental transition.
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Iamcanadian


Joined: 16 Jan 2006
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PostPosted: Sat May 13, 2017 8:56 pm    Post subject: Re: Lamar Jackson Reply with quote

LuckIsGOAT wrote:
Ragnarok wrote:
jrl23 wrote:
I've watched all of his games last year and while he needs to improve his accuracy, he still looks to have the skill set and tools to potentially be the number one pick in next years draft. That said, a lot of mock drafts for 2018 have omitted him. What is Lamar Jackson's ceiling and floor as a player?


Floor is RG3/Kaepernick. Comes in, starts off strong due to his athleticism, then teams figure him out, he doesn't have the mental ability/footwork/pocket ability to progress as a passer, and flames out.

Ceiling is Cam Newton. Able to blend his ridiculous athletic ability with the ability to pass from the pocket as he matures.

I personally think he'll be more towards the floor side of things. He has a massive jump to be able to handle an NFL offense.


You must think NFL DCs are morons. Neither RG3 or Kap were "figured out" RG3 was killed by injuries, Kap was never great and really struggled when his OL went from best in the NFL to below average


Some very good point, but a healthy RG 111, struggled in Cleveland.
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pnies20


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PostPosted: Sat May 13, 2017 10:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jackson doesn't have the same personality as Newton. That will be his downfall.
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