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What would a disappointing season mean for Payton & Co.?
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Raves


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PostPosted: Thu May 11, 2017 4:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

whodatworm23 wrote:
Raves wrote:
Mid Iowa wrote:
Raves wrote:
Last seasons we were hit by injuries even more than normal, which this season, you can't expect players to get hurt.

I think I would give the front office a pass at 9-7 IF and only IF there are a key injury late in the season, something like we start 8-4 and lose Armstead/Jordan etc and end up losing against a tough final 4 games where only 1 game would be expected to be a win anyways. Otherwise I agree 10-6 is needed IMO.
I agree on the bottom part.

I hate the top part. I get it, but I hate the excuse of injuries. Remember the Patriots going, what, 11-5 or 13-3 or whatever it was without Brady? How screwed would we be without Brees? Seriously, probably 3-13 at best.

The Vikings lost their starting QB just prior to week 1 last year and they started out on a giant winning streak before.......injuries piled up and they couldn't play defense anymore, or score.

I get we had some injuries, and I get that many of our losses were so so so close to being wins, but it's the NFL, and injuries can't be an excuse for 3 straight 7-9 seasons. I just can't buy that.


There is a difference between teams with good defenses and a good back-up QB. I think the Saints would be better than you think with Chase Daniels as the back-up but our defense being less than stellar means we won't be able to win the same number of games. I think injuries can explain a season, thus not being an excuse. Obviously everyone on a team is a professional athlete and their job is to win games, but there is no denying some players are better than others and injuries means that your talent level drops.


While this is true... it is he front offices job to build depth which they haven't done well enough to win. Also, if your a franchise that continues to struggle with the injury bug and yet you continue to target injury prone players in FA and the draft you cannot simply ignore it when players end up on the injury report and give this front office and staff a pass for it.

1 season sure... give them the benefit of the doubt but we're on year 3 now and possibly 4 depending on how 2017 goes.


Thing is though, it's been different players getting hurt not the same ones over and over again, so you can't really expect that either. I mean sure Byrd was coming off injury, but was healthy prior to that, he just never healed completed. It's really tough to balance. I mean if it was the same players hurt every year, then there is a problem, but it's hard to predict different players being hurt.

I'm really excited to see how we do this season. I think our defense could be much better. Depending on how they they decide to run the starting DL it could be something like Jordan/Fairley/Rankins/Hendrickson for some more pressure than years past.
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whodatworm23


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PostPosted: Thu May 11, 2017 5:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Raves wrote:
whodatworm23 wrote:
Raves wrote:
Mid Iowa wrote:
Raves wrote:
Last seasons we were hit by injuries even more than normal, which this season, you can't expect players to get hurt.

I think I would give the front office a pass at 9-7 IF and only IF there are a key injury late in the season, something like we start 8-4 and lose Armstead/Jordan etc and end up losing against a tough final 4 games where only 1 game would be expected to be a win anyways. Otherwise I agree 10-6 is needed IMO.
I agree on the bottom part.

I hate the top part. I get it, but I hate the excuse of injuries. Remember the Patriots going, what, 11-5 or 13-3 or whatever it was without Brady? How screwed would we be without Brees? Seriously, probably 3-13 at best.

The Vikings lost their starting QB just prior to week 1 last year and they started out on a giant winning streak before.......injuries piled up and they couldn't play defense anymore, or score.

I get we had some injuries, and I get that many of our losses were so so so close to being wins, but it's the NFL, and injuries can't be an excuse for 3 straight 7-9 seasons. I just can't buy that.


There is a difference between teams with good defenses and a good back-up QB. I think the Saints would be better than you think with Chase Daniels as the back-up but our defense being less than stellar means we won't be able to win the same number of games. I think injuries can explain a season, thus not being an excuse. Obviously everyone on a team is a professional athlete and their job is to win games, but there is no denying some players are better than others and injuries means that your talent level drops.


While this is true... it is he front offices job to build depth which they haven't done well enough to win. Also, if your a franchise that continues to struggle with the injury bug and yet you continue to target injury prone players in FA and the draft you cannot simply ignore it when players end up on the injury report and give this front office and staff a pass for it.

1 season sure... give them the benefit of the doubt but we're on year 3 now and possibly 4 depending on how 2017 goes.


Thing is though, it's been different players getting hurt not the same ones over and over again, so you can't really expect that either. I mean sure Byrd was coming off injury, but was healthy prior to that, he just never healed completed. It's really tough to balance. I mean if it was the same players hurt every year, then there is a problem, but it's hard to predict different players being hurt.

I'm really excited to see how we do this season. I think our defense could be much better. Depending on how they they decide to run the starting DL it could be something like Jordan/Fairley/Rankins/Hendrickson for some more pressure than years past.


I think that this is a 10-6 team if everything falls right for them... I don't expect them to be that lucky. I'm calling 8-8 and Loomis will make an excuse to keep Payton on in 2018.
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Mid Iowa


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PostPosted: Fri May 12, 2017 9:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Raves wrote:
Thing is though, it's been different players getting hurt not the same ones over and over again, so you can't really expect that either. I mean sure Byrd was coming off injury, but was healthy prior to that, he just never healed completed. It's really tough to balance. I mean if it was the same players hurt every year, then there is a problem, but it's hard to predict different players being hurt.
Different players almost makes this thing worse. That means there are a bunch of glass players, rather than just 1. That really drives Worm's point in even deeper.

It is true, we've been paying too much for players that break. Now, we have some studs that seem unbreakable, but man, year after year, to have a player go down with no decent reserve... that's on the brass, not an issue of luck.

Anyway, here's to a surprise 14-2 season!!! We may need to combine 2 teams to get that amount, but what the hell.
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Raves


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PostPosted: Fri May 12, 2017 10:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mid Iowa wrote:
Raves wrote:
Thing is though, it's been different players getting hurt not the same ones over and over again, so you can't really expect that either. I mean sure Byrd was coming off injury, but was healthy prior to that, he just never healed completed. It's really tough to balance. I mean if it was the same players hurt every year, then there is a problem, but it's hard to predict different players being hurt.
Different players almost makes this thing worse. That means there are a bunch of glass players, rather than just 1. That really drives Worm's point in even deeper.

It is true, we've been paying too much for players that break. Now, we have some studs that seem unbreakable, but man, year after year, to have a player go down with no decent reserve... that's on the brass, not an issue of luck.

Anyway, here's to a surprise 14-2 season!!! We may need to combine 2 teams to get that amount, but what the hell.


An injury doesn't mean a player is glass. It means that something happened. Now if it's the same player, with the same injury, then that's injury prone, otherwise, it's just bad luck. Seriously what the hell.
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whodatworm23


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PostPosted: Fri May 12, 2017 10:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Raves wrote:
Mid Iowa wrote:
Raves wrote:
Thing is though, it's been different players getting hurt not the same ones over and over again, so you can't really expect that either. I mean sure Byrd was coming off injury, but was healthy prior to that, he just never healed completed. It's really tough to balance. I mean if it was the same players hurt every year, then there is a problem, but it's hard to predict different players being hurt.
Different players almost makes this thing worse. That means there are a bunch of glass players, rather than just 1. That really drives Worm's point in even deeper.

It is true, we've been paying too much for players that break. Now, we have some studs that seem unbreakable, but man, year after year, to have a player go down with no decent reserve... that's on the brass, not an issue of luck.

Anyway, here's to a surprise 14-2 season!!! We may need to combine 2 teams to get that amount, but what the hell.


An injury doesn't mean a player is glass. It means that something happened. Now if it's the same player, with the same injury, then that's injury prone, otherwise, it's just bad luck. Seriously what the hell.


We been having ALOT of bad luck... then again I'm a believer that you make your own luck.

Look, I hear what your saying Raves but at some point ya got to call into question this front offices decision making. This team has been ravaged by injuries for 3 years running but they still continue to sign and draft players with injury history or coming off injury.

Ya know, I got a hell of a recipe for a seafood gumbo and it all sounds amazing if I read it out to ya but if I cook with rotten ingredients then at the end of the day all I really got is a big pot of... we'll you know. Wink

Then who's fault is that?

Can't blame the ingredients for going bad if I bought them knowing there was the chance they would and when they were showing signs of it.

See where I'm going with this?
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Raves


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PostPosted: Fri May 12, 2017 12:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well there could be other reasons such as poor training regiments. The thought of why ACL injuries which used to be much more rare have become more predominant in sports is from overuse. The number of repetitions can wear down your tendons and lead to injury.

Look I'm not taking blame from the staff, there are definite things they can/probably do that helps lead to injuries, but you can't call someone injury prone because of non-repeated injuries. Anzalone has injury-prone situation due to dislocated shoulders, Lattimore I'm a little torn on calling as he had an injury on one leg and it seems like rehab/stress from the injury affected the other leg before they found a way to counter it, but leg injuries with him would be an injury-prone situation as long as it's not a broken bone from a hit etc.

But a broken bone, nope, a torn ACL etc without a history of leg injuries in the past, nope, and even then a lot of people come back from these injuries with no future incidents, it just depends on how rehab and future training is handled.
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whodatworm23


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PostPosted: Fri May 12, 2017 12:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here's a hypothetical for everyone...

Drew Brees has been a IORN MAN for us since his arrival in 2006 but what if he suffers a freak season ending injury early on say preseason - week 4 and the Saints finish like 5-11.

What do we do next offseason?

Resign Brees and give everyone a pass on the 2017 season? Scrap it and move on in another direction?
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PostPosted: Fri May 12, 2017 12:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

whodatworm23 wrote:
Here's a hypothetical for everyone...

Drew Brees has been a IORN MAN for us since his arrival in 2006 but what if he suffers a freak season ending injury early on say preseason - week 4 and the Saints finish like 5-11.

What do we do next offseason?

Resign Brees and give everyone a pass on the 2017 season? Scrap it and move on in another direction?


Scrap it and move in another direction. With Brees out this team is almost assured a top 5 pick, and next year there are a few pretty good QBs coming out. In my opinion it would be the perfect time to scrap Payton too. Bring in a new HC that can draft a QB he wants and start the whole thing fresh.
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Raves


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PostPosted: Fri May 12, 2017 1:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

whodatworm23 wrote:
Here's a hypothetical for everyone...

Drew Brees has been a IORN MAN for us since his arrival in 2006 but what if he suffers a freak season ending injury early on say preseason - week 4 and the Saints finish like 5-11.

What do we do next offseason?

Resign Brees and give everyone a pass on the 2017 season? Scrap it and move on in another direction?


If we lose Brees at week 4, I think we'd be much worse than that record-wise. Regardless I would scrap Brees at least, it would've been pretty much the last year we could realistically expect to try to compete with him, especially since he would be an FA though still having a cap hit of 6 mil for 3 years, it'd be best to let him go and run with Chase Daniels or whoever we draft. I'm torn on whether or not to go in another direction than Payton only for the simple fact I'm not sure if we could find a better HC. If there is a good candidate then you scrap Payton as well, see if we can get a midround pick for him if teams are interested, maybe like a 3rd, and go in that direction.
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