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The DL Depth Chart Discussion
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WindyCity


Joined: 26 Jun 2009
Posts: 16526
PostPosted: Fri May 05, 2017 10:25 am    Post subject: The DL Depth Chart Discussion Reply with quote

DL [7]

Akiem Hicks
Eddie Goldman
Jaye Howard
John Bullard
John Jenkins
Mitch Unrien
Roy Robertson-Harris

Rashaad Coward [PR]

Will Sutton

To me this might be the shallowest position group on the team, which is why it makes sense that they added Jaye Howard who is a huge upgrade for the Bears. Obviously, Hicks and Goldman are the center pieces, but Goldman has had trouble staying healthy and Hicks played way too many snaps last season. The addition of Jenkins is solid and gives them a massive NT that can play more run downs to keep Goldman fresh and healthy. The Bears desperately need Bullard to step up. He really would go a long way to this group not being a weakness on defense. Unrien will bring his lunch pale to the line and the locker room and gives them a veteran who can stop the run and will be in his gap. A true roster wildcard is Robertson-Harris. he flashed last season at OLB, was stashed on the NFI list and apparently has bulked up to 285lbs and looks huge. He has the size and length that they seem to favor. I also think that Roy Robertson-Harris can fill a special teams role.

I think the Bears have to keep someone on the PR capable of playing NT and Coward has the size and was one of the first UDFA that they signed.

Sutton is the odd man out. He is not bad, but he just does not have the size to hold up consistently on the nose and he does not have the length to 2 gap against OTs.
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mikee


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PostPosted: Fri May 05, 2017 10:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

One of Robertson-Harris or Bullard needs to step up. I've never been a fan of Bullard, in college almost every win he had was purely based off of first step quickness (and guessing the snap count), which rarely works in the NFL. But the team needs a young guy to progress and become a reliable part of the rotation at end.
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TankWilliams


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PostPosted: Fri May 05, 2017 11:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I definitely disagree, I think this is a team that has some pretty good depth there. You are ignoring the first to second year progression we will see from Bullard and Robertson-Harris, and not to mention that we have solid depth pieces with Jenkins and Unrein. Are you expecting the bears to have 9 starting caliber guys? Because I see 3 great starters, 3 guys with starting experience, and two talented young guys now with a year of practices in this system under their belt.
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WindyCity


Joined: 26 Jun 2009
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PostPosted: Fri May 05, 2017 11:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

TankWilliams wrote:
I definitely disagree, I think this is a team that has some pretty good depth there. You are ignoring the first to second year progression we will see from Bullard and Robertson-Harris, and not to mention that we have solid depth pieces with Jenkins and Unrein. Are you expecting the bears to have 9 starting caliber guys? Because I see 3 great starters, 3 guys with starting experience, and two talented young guys now with a year of practices in this system under their belt.


I agree that they are much deeper with Howard and I mention that he is a huge upgrade.

I like Jenkins as a true back up NT.

Unrien is a below average back up.

Any faith in Bullard and RRH is 100% a projection RRH didn't play last season and is switching positions. Bullard was bad, not rookie growing pains, but bad.
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TankWilliams


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PostPosted: Fri May 05, 2017 11:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

WindyCity wrote:
TankWilliams wrote:
I definitely disagree, I think this is a team that has some pretty good depth there. You are ignoring the first to second year progression we will see from Bullard and Robertson-Harris, and not to mention that we have solid depth pieces with Jenkins and Unrein. Are you expecting the bears to have 9 starting caliber guys? Because I see 3 great starters, 3 guys with starting experience, and two talented young guys now with a year of practices in this system under their belt.


I agree that they are much deeper with Howard and I mention that he is a huge upgrade.

I like Jenkins as a true back up NT.

Unrien is a below average back up.

Any faith in Bullard and RRH is 100% a projection RRH didn't play last season and is switching positions. Bullard was bad, not rookie growing pains, but bad.


So if we were to take a rookie DE at #3, we couldn't count on him as depth or count on his progression as its 100% projection?
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WindyCity


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PostPosted: Fri May 05, 2017 12:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

TankWilliams wrote:
WindyCity wrote:
TankWilliams wrote:
I definitely disagree, I think this is a team that has some pretty good depth there. You are ignoring the first to second year progression we will see from Bullard and Robertson-Harris, and not to mention that we have solid depth pieces with Jenkins and Unrein. Are you expecting the bears to have 9 starting caliber guys? Because I see 3 great starters, 3 guys with starting experience, and two talented young guys now with a year of practices in this system under their belt.


I agree that they are much deeper with Howard and I mention that he is a huge upgrade.

I like Jenkins as a true back up NT.

Unrien is a below average back up.

Any faith in Bullard and RRH is 100% a projection RRH didn't play last season and is switching positions. Bullard was bad, not rookie growing pains, but bad.


So if we were to take a rookie DE at #3, we couldn't count on him as depth or count on his progression as its 100% projection?


Projecting the 3rd pick in the draft is very different than projecting

-A 3rd round pick who looked flat out bad.

-An UDFA who missed the season and switched positions.

I am hopeful that at least one of them can contribute, but I am not banking on it. That is why the Howard signing, and his health, is so important.
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G08


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PostPosted: Fri May 05, 2017 1:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

John Bullard
John Jenkins
Mitch Unrien
Roy Robertson-Harris

Rashaad Coward [PR]

Will Sutton

Here's how I've got it:

Base: Hicks / Goldman / Howard
Backups: Bullard / Jenkins / RRH or Unrein

I think we're in great shape, honestly.
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My point is you can find a franchise guy like [Derek] Carr in every draft


"I thought it was a stroke of genius. You give [Pace] an A++++ for the move to get Trubisky. That was magnificient." - Bill Polian
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WindyCity


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PostPosted: Fri May 05, 2017 3:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

G08 wrote:
John Bullard
John Jenkins
Mitch Unrien
Roy Robertson-Harris

Rashaad Coward [PR]

Will Sutton

Here's how I've got it:

Base: Hicks / Goldman / Howard
Backups: Bullard / Jenkins / RRH or Unrein

I think we're in great shape, honestly.


Yeah the Howard signing bumps everyone back into a role they are better suited for.
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G08


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PostPosted: Fri May 05, 2017 3:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

WindyCity wrote:
G08 wrote:
John Bullard
John Jenkins
Mitch Unrien
Roy Robertson-Harris

Rashaad Coward [PR]

Will Sutton

Here's how I've got it:

Base: Hicks / Goldman / Howard
Backups: Bullard / Jenkins / RRH or Unrein

I think we're in great shape, honestly.


Yeah the Howard signing bumps everyone back into a role they are better suited for.


I'm expecting Bullard to mostly play 3T in sub packages, and maybe get a few reps at 5T in base... but really Hicks/Howard/Unrein is fine with me. Curious to see what RRH's got.
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topwop1 wrote:
My point is you can find a franchise guy like [Derek] Carr in every draft


"I thought it was a stroke of genius. You give [Pace] an A++++ for the move to get Trubisky. That was magnificient." - Bill Polian
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Nads786


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PostPosted: Fri May 05, 2017 4:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bullard to me is the biggest question mark here- is he able to take a step to be a starter or at least starter quality play? That would really help this defense out which I still think needs more pass rushers.
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Madmike90


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PostPosted: Fri May 05, 2017 6:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Not to rain on anyone's parade and I was the first guy calling for him to be signed but we have very little idea as to where Jaye Howard is at...if he is 100% he is clearly a starting 5 tech in this D...but if he is back to what he was why would the Chiefs release him? That is a team with big ambitions and Howard wasn't killing their cap...so right now I would put a question mark next to him right now...

Goldman has to stay fit...when he is fit he is one of the best young NTs in the NFL...Hicks is the one true sure thing right now...

Behind that you have Unrein who is nothing but pedestrian...Bullard who has talent but couldn't put it all together last year so has to step up...Jenkins has the frame to be a backup on the nose...Roy Robertson-Harris seems to be the new Cornelius Washington where we are waiting and waiting...

It's a talented group especially Hicks, Goldman & if healthy Howard...but we need them to stay fit and we need above all else for Bullard to step up and provide a pass rushing threat.
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Epyon


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PostPosted: Fri May 05, 2017 7:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nads786 wrote:
Bullard to me is the biggest question mark here- is he able to take a step to be a starter or at least starter quality play? That would really help this defense out which I still think needs more pass rushers.


Bullard was horrible for most of the season, no arguement there, but he did end up with one of the highest PFF grades on the defense for the final game or two.

May not mean all that much, since many of the other guys could have taken their foot off the gas, but it does at least give some hope that he'll improve a bit, and at least be solid depth.
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WindyCity


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PostPosted: Fri May 05, 2017 9:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Howard needs to be healthy in 3 months so he has additional time. They also give that failed physical designation so the player can collect any injury pay if they are not signed.

My hope is that the Bears can get 30-35 reps from Howard a game which may help to keep him fresher.
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WindyCity


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PostPosted: Fri May 05, 2017 9:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Let's say there are 80 defensive snaps a game, which is probably a little high.

Base: 32 snaps
Nickel: 46 snaps

Base: 32x3=96
Nickel: 46x2=92

188 defensive line snaps to work with.

Hicks 45, I read last season he played 60+ which is way too many
Goldman 45
Howard 40,
Bullard 25,
Jenkins 20,
Unrien 10, obvious run downs, short yardage

McPhee/Houston 13, when they go with the 3rd and super long crew


I think the should keep guys fresh and healthy while working in Bullard to continue to develop.
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Galloway16


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PostPosted: Sat May 06, 2017 12:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I dont know how much weight to put into this, but RRH is still listed on the roster at LB and around 270. McPhee played around 270-275 last year so maybe thats what they want RRH at.
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