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Elway Re-Shuffles Front Office
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AnAngryAmerican


Joined: 23 Apr 2006
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Location: Loveland, CO
PostPosted: Fri May 05, 2017 3:13 am    Post subject: Elway Re-Shuffles Front Office Reply with quote

As per Nicki Jhabvala of the Denver Post, the Broncos have re-shuffled and re-stocked the upper-echelons of the organization's front office.

For those who may not know, Denver entered this year's draft season without the services of the franchise's Director of College Scouting, Adam Peters. Peters left Denver to join the newly-minted San Francisco 49ers front office, led by GM John Lynch and Head Coach Kyle Shanahan.

Peters came to Denver with Josh McDaniels in 2009 and, despite that pedigree, actually has a few bright spots to point to in his tenure including the Broncos' drafting of Von Miller, Shane Ray, Bradley Roby, Derek Wolfe, Danny Trevathan, Matt Paradis, Julius Thomas and Malik Jackson. He was also part of a staff that hit on undrafted free agents such as Chris Harris, Shaq Barrett and Kapri Bibbs.

Unfortunately, he was also part of front offices that spent first and second round picks on the likes of Knowshon Moreno, Alphonso Smith, Richard Quinn, Ty Sambrailo, Montee Ball and Cody Latimer.

While Peters' record in Denver was decidedly mixed, he joined the staff in San Francisco - close to his native home as Peters grew up in Cupertino, CA - where he helped assemble one of the more well-regarded 2017 draft classes.

Back to the Broncos. To replace Peters, Broncos Football Czar (or is it Football Tsar?), John Elway, elevated Brian Stark to Peters' former position as Director of College Scouting. Stark was an area scout with the Broncos from 2012-15 and last season served as a national scout.

Furthermore, Elway promoted Tom Heckert, who formerly held the title of Director of Pro Personnel, to the position of Senior Personnel Advisor and installed A.J. Durso to Heckert's old position as Director of Pro Personnel. Durso was previously the franchise's pro scouting coordinator and before that held positions in the front offices of the Browns and Seahawks.

Former CU Buffalo and noted Josh McDaniels yes-man Matt "buy me a drink" Russell remains as Elway's second-in-command as Director of Player Personnel.

A handful of regional scouts were also shuffled about.

The new organization chart looks as follows:

-President/CEO: Joe Ellis
--EVP of Football Ops/GM: John Elway
---Director of Player Personnel: Matt "buy me a drink" Russell
----Senior Personnel Advisor: Tom Heckert
-----Director of College Scouting: Brian Stark -----Director of Pro Personnel: AJ Durso

Clearly, entering the draft season having just lost their Director of College Scouting was not an ideal situation for the team and likely contributed to the team's lackluster performance in a draft where a number of questionable choices were made.

However, to be fair, not all the blame for a disappointing offseason can be placed on that move alone.

Joe Ellis, John Elway, Matt "buy me a drink" Russell and Josh McDaniels' best friend, Broncos Director of Team Administration, Mark Thewes, were the group that decided to hire Vance Joseph rather than more-qualified and better-resumed candidates Kyle Shanahan and Dave Toub.

It was not Peters' departure that led Ellis and Elway to decide not to retain future Hall of Famer Wade Phillips as Defensive Coordinator and instead promote rookie Joe Woods in his stead.

Peters departure, given his role DCS, cannot be held responsible for a free agency period that saw the franchise sign an over-the-hill NT and a nondiscript DE to shore up a McDaniels-era-like leaky run defense. Nor can the signing of the likes of oft-injured Ronald Leary or oft-injured-but-always-ineffective Meleik Watson to shore up the league's worst OL.

So, what say you? Is this reshuffling part of the new-look of a franchise or simply a proverbial re-arranging of the deck chairs on the Titanic?
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thebestever6


Joined: 03 Jan 2008
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PostPosted: Fri May 05, 2017 3:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Leary Started 47 out of 48 games and he's often injured? Come on man in my Chris Carter voice. The D line signings increase depth which keeps the unit fresh just in case you have a inept offense.

-Watson was a great signing high reward low risk. Much better than the Stephenson signing.


That one stands out, but this whole post was negative you're becoming the skip Bayless of this forum.

I appreciate objective constructive criticism, but yours errors on the side on the disappointment we didn't follow nepotism. Now, you bash Joseph's performance in miami yet they drafted all defensive players up until round 5 or so. They were the last team to draft an offensive player. So you have valid criticisms but at no point do I see you bring up Shanny and his ability to call an offense to keep a 25 point lead.

You made this post for strictly click bait. The fact is Elways front office structure isn't blemish free, but it's also not the highly acclaimed unit that he got credit for in the PM era. It's somewhere im the middle. The fact is having Peyton showed less holes on this team so elway could use all resources to other areas, and lure guys like Sanders below market value because they wanted to play for PM.
- mind the fact that you were the leader of the Peyton Manning is a memtal midget this team is in purgatory and will not do anything under him in his tenure.

- Back to the original point we have no clue who was key for ourdraft successes and failures. I haven no idea who found Chris Harris. I know Elway has final say and isn't terrible at his job. I specifically like elways approach for qb ala bill walsh. Draft a qb almost every year until you know you have your franchise guy.


The best part about this thread is had they signed Shanny and traded the farm to draft Christian Mac. You'd view them as they could do no wrong, you'd go cuckoo for cocopuffs, jump for joy,etc. even though we'd have more holes than we do now.
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Broncofan


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PostPosted: Fri May 05, 2017 7:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Good summary of the FO structure AAA.

I'd point out that the bulk of the scouting work is done by the time Peters left, save for the Combine analysis. Scouts go out and do their field reports way ahead of time. The scouting work reports outside of the Combine are usually done by then. Pro Days and Denver visits are still yet to come, but for the most part they're a result of short-listing from the pool of talent that's already being evaluated - the short-listing is complete, and a general ranking (which gets adjusted based on Combine performance) leads to who gets visits, etc. As a really on-topic example, BUF fired their GM and and their entire scouting staff, likely already decided in late January when they hired HC Sean McDermott, but kept everyone until the draft was done, because their work was done, and simply allowed the draft final decision-making to Sean McDermott rather than GM Whaley (explained in links below). But the work was already done...they just kept it private until the day after the draft.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2017/04/26/bills-scouts-bracing-for-a-post-draft-house-cleaning/

http://www.newyorkupstate.com/buffalo-bills/index.ssf/2017/05/why_did_buffalo_bills_owner_terry_pegula_wait_to_fire_gm_doug_whaley.html

The above illustrates how the scouting cycle is really from start of college games to Combine/visits - almost all of the work and short-listing is done by the end of January (save for Combine of course). So I'm not sure that Peters' fingerprints aren't on this year's draft, for good or bad (and Elway's always made the final call on guys on Draft Day, so that's not really any different).

A decision like whether to take Joe Mixon, Reuben Foster or Gareon Conley or Caleb Brantley off your board, on the other hand, would have likely had Peters' influence if he was still around, but likely fell to others. That's fair. Having said that, the reality is that Elway makes the final call on all of these decisions, as in the past. Now, if Elway's given bad information (and medically, if he was told to take Foster completely off the board, it would have been based on guess work than hard info), of course we can point to Peters' departure as a possible influence. Hard to know, though, given our training staff and medical staff are intact, and I think they'd be more important in Foster's evaluation (although I think the world of the training staff's record, they are a top 5 facility and unit, no idea who the Broncos rely on medically). For guys like Mixon, Conley, Brantley, no doubt Peters would have had a big say. Mixon went before us Rd 2, Conley Rd 1 IMO would have been hard to justify (I didn't have him as close as Howard/Foster overall at 1.20), so not like we consciously passed on them.

Keep in mind that overall, Elway's draft record isn't really any different from 2012-2016 (2016 being incomplete evaluation wise, still too soon) - Day 3 magic, Rd 1 mostly all hits (except Sly Williams, Lynch too soon to say), and Day 2 he's almost all whiffs. Peters was around for all those years. Maybe he was the guy responsible for all the Day 3 hits, but it's also possible he was part of the issue behind the Day 2 reaches that whiffed. Just hard to know for sure if he's the reason behind all the good to great picks, or the reaches that missed badly when better talent was available. I'd suspect the answer is likely a bit of both, but that's all it is, a guess.

What I'd like to know are 2 things - first, what does Stark & Durso bring philosophy/background wise? Is it the same old philosophy? Or is it a different approach? And, secondly, have we changed our scouting personnel significantly, or more of the same? Whoever is sending the scouting reports has a big impact, not just who's reading the final reports and making the final call - they go off the info they're given.

If we're changing, I'd prefer to see evolution, because the Draft changes over time. As an example, after a slow start, Tom Telesco and his staff with the Chargers have had 2 amazing value drafts last year, and while it's not known impact-wise for certain, this year's value from where they picked Rds 2-5 are impressive. Given a full draft's impact isn't known for 2+ years, the fact that from 2016 the Chargers got 3 2017+ full-time starters at key positions besides Bosa (as Max Tuerk looks to take over at C, Jatavius Brown is their starting OLB, and Hunter Henry has already been ID'd to take the bulk of the TE work, with Gates now spelling him), and Derek Watt as their starting FB (like we found with Janovich late), it's looking like an epic 2+-year draft run is in their cards. And it's no coincidence this came with an overhaul of their FO and scouting team 4 years prior (it took 2 years to take, Telesco came in Feb. 2013, but as pointed out above, the draft work was pretty much already done). Telesco's stated philosophy from the start was to be a better draft org, and it shows. We don't have to blow it up completely, but we should evolve with the times as well.

I'd hope the emphasis on draft scouting continues with our new FO structure, because while Elway's & co. have been great on Day 3, doesn't mean we can't get better - our Day 2 misses over time are a big reason for our depth issues on our roster. It's just the reality of the cap era nowadays - 1-2 hits from each draft isn't enough to keep a complete team. When you combine the fact that Year1 is usually a redshirt year for most rookies (and what makes the 2016 Chargers draft, 2014 Raiders, and yes, the 2011 Broncos draft so special, they had 3-4 Year 1 starters), being able to hit on each day of the Draft becomes crucial to sustained contention over time - because our depth issues in 2018 will be a reflection of how we drafted in 2015-17, not who we pick that year.

Anyways, all of which to say - I'd love to know what Stark/Durso bring philosophy & approach-wise. Do they bring in a different perspective to the position, or exactly the same? And if our scouting system/personnel are going to be different, and if so, how? If you hire great people, they make a leader better. As Lee Iococca explained his success in turning around his car company - "Hire people brighter than me and then get out of their way".
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jolly red giant


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PostPosted: Fri May 05, 2017 12:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

AAA - you are on a bit of a whinge-binge these days and it does detract from the constructive posts that you do make.

I am disappointed with this 're-shuffle' - which isn't really anything more than moving the deck-chairs around. I would have expected a couple of new faces being brought in - some fresh ideas would not have gone amiss.
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AnAngryAmerican


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PostPosted: Fri May 05, 2017 12:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This post does some a little of my signature snark included but truthfully I think it's a good summary of the situation.
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thebestever6


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PostPosted: Fri May 05, 2017 4:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

jolly red giant wrote:
AAA - you are on a bit of a whinge-binge these days and it does detract from the constructive posts that you do make.

I am disappointed with this 're-shuffle' - which isn't really anything more than moving the deck-chairs around. I would have expected a couple of new faces being brought in - some fresh ideas would not have gone amiss.


Elway likes stability and the direction these men bring to fulfilling it. At this point can you blame him?


If Denver gets a franchise top 5 to 10 qb you can expect more super bowls. He's just great at building around a roster with a franchise qb.

And I'm not selling the difficulty it takes to get one. But if lynch, Trevor, or Chad Kelly is that no team in the afc is in a better situation moving forward than the Broncos.
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The Helicopter


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PostPosted: Sat May 06, 2017 11:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

More "fake news" from the CSU apologist?

As a non-football player or coach I enjoy coming here to read the 'ins-and outs' of a team I support, not this slander.

Matt, "xxx" Russell & Elway the Tsar?

Perhaps AAA's real identity is Amahl Farouk!

Cheers to 2017
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Broncofan


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PostPosted: Sun May 07, 2017 10:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

AAA - maybe you can answer this - was Peters in charge of such things as projecting the overall board? I ask this because of an observation germ-x made in the other thread on Locking In / Need vs BPA Elway draft thread - it looks by Elway's attempts (again, confirmed by Elway himself) to trade for both Bolles at 1.20 and multiple attempts to trade up from 2.51 for DeMarcus Walker, when both weren't necessary - that the scouting staff, didn't have a good idea on how the board was going to fall.

Was this Peters' job? Or someone else's? And if it was Peters' job, whose is it now? That's a key question for our draft future.
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AKRNA


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PostPosted: Mon May 08, 2017 3:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Broncofan wrote:
AAA - maybe you can answer this - was Peters in charge of such things as projecting the overall board? I ask this because of an observation germ-x made in the other thread on Locking In / Need vs BPA Elway draft thread - it looks by Elway's attempts (again, confirmed by Elway himself) to trade for both Bolles at 1.20 and multiple attempts to trade up from 2.51 for DeMarcus Walker, when both weren't necessary - that the scouting staff, didn't have a good idea on how the board was going to fall.

Was this Peters' job? Or someone else's? And if it was Peters' job, whose is it now? That's a key question for our draft future.


I don't think anybody could have predicted that 8 of the 1st 12 players picked were on the offensive side of the ball. Three QB's, three WR's and two RB's. I pointed that out in the draft thread when it happened.

From 13 down there were a lot of players available that GM's didn't think they had a shot at. There had to be a lot of last minute scrambling going on.

Hard to say when or if Elway thought he had to trade up for Bolles but I'm sure those thoughts went away when so many high rated players fell.

Looks to me like Bolles went about where he should have. He was basically rated in the second tier of players, anywhere from 16 to 26 on most boards. and the highest rated O Lineman overall.

Probably no coincidence that both the Texans and Seahawks dropped out of the 1st round after we selected Bolles. I'd imagine the Giants weren't too pleased with our selection either.
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Broncofan


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PostPosted: Mon May 08, 2017 3:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

AKRNA wrote:
Broncofan wrote:
AAA - maybe you can answer this - was Peters in charge of such things as projecting the overall board? I ask this because of an observation germ-x made in the other thread on Locking In / Need vs BPA Elway draft thread - it looks by Elway's attempts (again, confirmed by Elway himself) to trade for both Bolles at 1.20 and multiple attempts to trade up from 2.51 for DeMarcus Walker, when both weren't necessary - that the scouting staff, didn't have a good idea on how the board was going to fall.

Was this Peters' job? Or someone else's? And if it was Peters' job, whose is it now? That's a key question for our draft future.


I don't think anybody could have predicted that 8 of the 1st 12 players picked were on the offensive side of the ball. Three QB's, three WR's and two RB's. I pointed that out in the draft thread when it happened.

From 13 down there were a lot of players available that GM's didn't think they had a shot at. There had to be a lot of last minute scrambling going on.

Hard to say when or if Elway thought he had to trade up for Bolles but I'm sure those thoughts went away when so many high rated players fell.

Looks to me like Bolles went about where he should have. He was basically rated in the second tier of players, anywhere from 16 to 26 on most boards. and the highest rated O Lineman overall.

Probably no coincidence that both the Texans and Seahawks dropped out of the 1st round after we selected Bolles. I'd imagine the Giants weren't too pleased with our selection either.


If it was Bolles alone, that explanation could very well hold, no one knows. But, remember it's not Bolles alone - Elway confirmed to Renck that he tried on multiple occasions to trade up for Walker. Who fell to him at 2.51. In Walker's case, they only had 19 picks to forecast, with a night off to regroup. And Elway confirmed he didn't back off as the board progressed, he just got rebuffed on multiple occasions. And in his words, got lucky he didn't have to pay more picks to get Walker.

When you combine at both Bolles & Walker attempts to trade up where it wasn't needed, I'd say germ's conclusion is hard to argue with - that the DEN didn't have a good read on this year's board. Given the 2015-16 rd 2 picks were seen widely as reaches, it seems fair to raise if this is more than a 1-off, too.
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jsthomp2007


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PostPosted: Mon May 08, 2017 4:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This post makes me want to have a cigarette, a drink, and then some cocaine.
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AKRNA


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PostPosted: Mon May 08, 2017 4:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Broncofan wrote:
AKRNA wrote:
Broncofan wrote:
AAA - maybe you can answer this - was Peters in charge of such things as projecting the overall board? I ask this because of an observation germ-x made in the other thread on Locking In / Need vs BPA Elway draft thread - it looks by Elway's attempts (again, confirmed by Elway himself) to trade for both Bolles at 1.20 and multiple attempts to trade up from 2.51 for DeMarcus Walker, when both weren't necessary - that the scouting staff, didn't have a good idea on how the board was going to fall.

Was this Peters' job? Or someone else's? And if it was Peters' job, whose is it now? That's a key question for our draft future.


I don't think anybody could have predicted that 8 of the 1st 12 players picked were on the offensive side of the ball. Three QB's, three WR's and two RB's. I pointed that out in the draft thread when it happened.

From 13 down there were a lot of players available that GM's didn't think they had a shot at. There had to be a lot of last minute scrambling going on.

Hard to say when or if Elway thought he had to trade up for Bolles but I'm sure those thoughts went away when so many high rated players fell.

Looks to me like Bolles went about where he should have. He was basically rated in the second tier of players, anywhere from 16 to 26 on most boards. and the highest rated O Lineman overall.

Probably no coincidence that both the Texans and Seahawks dropped out of the 1st round after we selected Bolles. I'd imagine the Giants weren't too pleased with our selection either.


If it was Bolles alone, that explanation could very well hold, no one knows. But, remember it's not Bolles alone - Elway confirmed to Renck that he tried on multiple occasions to trade up for Walker. Who fell to him at 2.51. In Walker's case, they only had 19 picks to forecast, with a night off to regroup. And Elway confirmed he didn't back off as the board progressed, he just got rebuffed on multiple occasions. And in his words, got lucky he didn't have to pay more picks to get Walker.

When you combine at both Bolles & Walker attempts to trade up where it wasn't needed, I'd say germ's conclusion is hard to argue with - that the DEN didn't have a good read on this year's board. Given the 2015-16 rd 2 picks were seen widely as reaches, it seems fair to raise if this is more than a 1-off, too.


It's hard for me to see much of a comparison between our 1st two picks this year and last. Both Lynch and Gotsis were seen as long term projects with great upside. Not much was really expected of them last year.

In both Walker and Bolles we're looking for immediate production and I think we'll get it. Walker should be in the DE rotation immediately and I believe will do well. Bolles should lock down the starting LT during the season.

We sort of did the same with Henderson in the 3rd. Highly productive in college, and POTY on both offense and ST's in his conference.

Last year seemed like more than a few reaches while this year was more "meat and potatoes" solid college players who should contribute immediately.

As far as the trade rumors, that sounds more like "coach speak" to me and every GM says similar things every year. IE; "was amazed he dropped this far" "we had him ranked 20 spots higher" "thought we'd have to trade up to get him"................

To hear the GM's talk after a draft, every pick was a steal and every player destined for the pro bowl. The reality has to wait until pre-season to rear it's ugly head.
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thebestever6


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PostPosted: Mon May 08, 2017 6:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This sums up my thoughts as well. Just a gm and team talking up a draft. Believe me is we were willing to trade up it would of happened in the first or second round. Given how deep this draft is and how valuable even third round picks were.
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Broncofan


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PostPosted: Mon May 08, 2017 6:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

AKRNA wrote:
Broncofan wrote:
AKRNA wrote:
Broncofan wrote:
AAA - maybe you can answer this - was Peters in charge of such things as projecting the overall board? I ask this because of an observation germ-x made in the other thread on Locking In / Need vs BPA Elway draft thread - it looks by Elway's attempts (again, confirmed by Elway himself) to trade for both Bolles at 1.20 and multiple attempts to trade up from 2.51 for DeMarcus Walker, when both weren't necessary - that the scouting staff, didn't have a good idea on how the board was going to fall.

Was this Peters' job? Or someone else's? And if it was Peters' job, whose is it now? That's a key question for our draft future.


I don't think anybody could have predicted that 8 of the 1st 12 players picked were on the offensive side of the ball. Three QB's, three WR's and two RB's. I pointed that out in the draft thread when it happened.

From 13 down there were a lot of players available that GM's didn't think they had a shot at. There had to be a lot of last minute scrambling going on.

Hard to say when or if Elway thought he had to trade up for Bolles but I'm sure those thoughts went away when so many high rated players fell.

Looks to me like Bolles went about where he should have. He was basically rated in the second tier of players, anywhere from 16 to 26 on most boards. and the highest rated O Lineman overall.

Probably no coincidence that both the Texans and Seahawks dropped out of the 1st round after we selected Bolles. I'd imagine the Giants weren't too pleased with our selection either.


If it was Bolles alone, that explanation could very well hold, no one knows. But, remember it's not Bolles alone - Elway confirmed to Renck that he tried on multiple occasions to trade up for Walker. Who fell to him at 2.51. In Walker's case, they only had 19 picks to forecast, with a night off to regroup. And Elway confirmed he didn't back off as the board progressed, he just got rebuffed on multiple occasions. And in his words, got lucky he didn't have to pay more picks to get Walker.

When you combine at both Bolles & Walker attempts to trade up where it wasn't needed, I'd say germ's conclusion is hard to argue with - that the DEN didn't have a good read on this year's board. Given the 2015-16 rd 2 picks were seen widely as reaches, it seems fair to raise if this is more than a 1-off, too.


It's hard for me to see much of a comparison between our 1st two picks this year and last. Both Lynch and Gotsis were seen as long term projects with great upside. Not much was really expected of them last year.

In both Walker and Bolles we're looking for immediate production and I think we'll get it. Walker should be in the DE rotation immediately and I believe will do well. Bolles should lock down the starting LT during the season.

We sort of did the same with Henderson in the 3rd. Highly productive in college, and POTY on both offense and ST's in his conference.

Last year seemed like more than a few reaches while this year was more "meat and potatoes" solid college players who should contribute immediately.

As far as the trade rumors, that sounds more like "coach speak" to me and every GM says similar things every year. IE; "was amazed he dropped this far" "we had him ranked 20 spots higher" "thought we'd have to trade up to get him"................

To hear the GM's talk after a draft, every pick was a steal and every player destined for the pro bowl. The reality has to wait until pre-season to rear it's ugly head.


That's the one explanation that works outside of simply missing the board, but again, Elway's been honest to a fault, in terms of who he wants, what he's targeting - so now we're saying he acts one way pre-draft, in-draft, and then differently outside of the draft. Or, there's a simpler explanation - Elway said what he actually thought, and the FO really isn't forecasting how the board is going to go down. Renck actually called the Bolles & Walker picks well before they happened, and the trade-up efforts before the picks went in - and then followed up for later discussion. So take it FWIW.

For clarification - I wasn't comparing Lynch & Gostsis - I was comparing Gostis & Sambrailo as Rd 2 reaches in 2015-16 (not the 1st 2 picks last year). Going Lynch was clearly a need pick, but QB is one of the few where everyone knows why. But, the Gostis/Sambrailo picks were notable for their view it was a reach at Rd2 for the board at the time, and they are still viewed that way now. That's why they were referenced, in relation to our FO's ability to project the board. But all good either way.

It would still be great to know who is doing the big board - if the pattern this year is a one-off, then great, no worries. If it's a recurring pattern, though....then it's good to know where the decisions are being made. It's almost certainly not Elway who's doing it.
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germ-x


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PostPosted: Mon May 08, 2017 8:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This may not pertain to some of the current discussion, but I'm going to post it anyway.

I have not agreed with everything Elway has done since taking over in Denver, but make no mistake that John Elway is terrific at his job. I think his greatest strength has been surrounding himself with a great staff. I don't necessarily like every single one of them, but overall he's done an excellent job of adding quality NFL minds around him to help him evaluate and make decisions for this team.

A friend of mine wants Elway gone. Thinks he's the worst drafter in the NFL and made his mark purely on FA signings. Elway really has done a very good job in both areas, more so in FA, but he's made some tremendous picks as well. Not every player hits, especially in the draft. There is no doubt room for improvement in the draft, but Elway is still darn good.

Basically, the grass isn't always greener on the other side. There is honestly only 1 "organization runner" that I'd definitively take over Elway and that is Bill Belichick who will be one of the greatest (if not the greatest) in history. After that I think Elway is right in that 2nd tier with Newsome, Thompson, Schneider, and Reese. There are some up and comers that could be a part of that list, like McKenzie and Kiem.
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