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Was trading down with the Texans the correct move?
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Was trading down the best option?
Yes
92%
 92%  [ 23 ]
No
8%
 8%  [ 2 ]
Total Votes : 25

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DizzyDean


Joined: 09 Mar 2017
Posts: 949
PostPosted: Wed May 03, 2017 8:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

jkb_63 wrote:
I voted Yes, because on its face I thought I saw a definitive plan come together for a 2018 Franchise QB and using the 2017 Draft to build up our defense mainly.

The selection of Kizer, instead of a high probability starter in the defensive backfield (in arguably the deepest position group draft since our '99 return), has thrown some doubt in that speculation. I realize that it was a high value pick. I realize that maybe, just maybe, we drafted a developmental QB with some good tools who could actually pan out...but maybe not. Question is, how long do you give Kizer to develop and do positive signs of development cause us to not be as aggressive in moving up for a higher probability Franchise QB in 2018? I don't like those questions, those questions are potentially devastating if answered wrongly.

So yes, I like the trade, but I'm hesitant to call it a slam dunk.


Kizer is a project in my estimation, and will not have any bearing on drafting a QB next year if they want one of the blue chippers if no one steps up this year.

They are following the cowboys model... they took Aikman number 1 overall in the 1989 draft, and essentially spent #1 overall in the 1990 draft on Steve Walsh via the 1989 supplemental draft.

Us taking a shot on a project in round 2 certainly will not factor into the equation next year if they believe they can get a franchise guy there, even if they have no clue what they have in Kizer yet.
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buno67


Joined: 15 Mar 2007
Posts: 40880
PostPosted: Thu May 04, 2017 10:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

DizzyDean wrote:

Us taking a shot on a project in round 2 certainly will not factor into the equation next year if they believe they can get a franchise guy there, even if they have no clue what they have in Kizer yet.


I completely agree with this statement. Taking Kizer in rd 2 doesnt not handcuff him into their future or force them from not drafting a QB next year.

Low risk, high reward.

If Kizer hits his stride and the Browns got lucky, well the Browns hit the freaking lottery. If Kizer doesnt show anything, well they could scrap him and draft a QB next year.

I just hope Kizer does show himself as the franchise QB. It would be nice to keep those picks they would have to trade to get QB1 next year
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DaWg_LB.


Joined: 02 Dec 2005
Posts: 6179
PostPosted: Thu May 04, 2017 12:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thomas5737 wrote:
LETSGOBROWNIES wrote:
DizzyDean wrote:
LETSGOBROWNIES wrote:
DizzyDean wrote:
bruceb wrote:
sdrawkcab321 wrote:
I would have rather had OJ since he would have helped the pass game and run game with his blocking. but I guess we have to see what happens next year with that pick.

I think we could have gotten peppers in the 2nd.


Njoku can be all Howard can be.

Cannot say the same for Peppers vs. Hooker.

Getting th #1 2018 pick clinches it for me, but I will interested in watching Peppers' and Hooker's careers.


Peppers can not be all that Hooker can be, but.... Hooker also can not be all that Peppers can be.

They are 2 entirely different players, playing 2 entirely different roles and positions.

Peppers can be, and will be I believe, every bit as good at his role, if not better, than Hooker will be at his role.


Also, either player could just suck.


I don't expect either player to suck. It could happen, I just simply do not expect it to happen. I honestly can envision them being team mates in the probowl for a lot of years together.


Most people don't expect them to suck, that's why they are first round picks.

Of course about half of those first round picks eventually suck....


DawgLB's dates have an even higher percentage.



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DawgX


Joined: 08 Aug 2006
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Location: Cleveland, OH
PostPosted: Thu May 04, 2017 1:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Right now I'll say yes, but obviously it's partly contingent on who the Browns draft next year with the pick from Houston. Hooker would have been nice, but Peppers + another top player might be better. Especially since apparently Williams doesn't value a free safety as much as he does a strong safety.
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duke2056


Joined: 21 Feb 2005
Posts: 9034
Location: Cleveland area
PostPosted: Sun May 28, 2017 10:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Can't say if the right or wrong move considering the players haven't played yet and we have no idea what the pick will be, but I am confident in saying that it was a GOOD move in the sense that I think Peppers and whatever comes of that 2018 1st has a better chance to positively impact our team than whoever we would have taken at pick 12.

The future 1st might just be a regular ol player, or maybe a trade up for the stud QB.
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3/18/17 predictions:
Jimmy G stays with New England this year.
We draft Garrett at #1 (out on a limb there).
We trade back from 12 for another 2018 1st.
We do NOT draft a QB in the first 2 rounds.
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BleedTheClock


Joined: 17 Nov 2014
Posts: 5353
PostPosted: Sun May 28, 2017 2:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here's the way I look at it:


I think it was a mistake, but we recovered from said mistake beautifully by getting Jabrill Peppers. I love him and think he's going to be a stud in a Gregg Williams defense. I was saying for months leading into the draft that it wouldn't shock me at all if Peppers was the pick at #12, given Williams would probably be pounding the table to acquire him. To get him at #25 made me smile.

So I was not a fan of the trade. I would have taken Hooker and ran like a thief in the night. If I knew we could have gotten Peppers at #25, I would have done it. But without hindsight, I'd have taken Hooker.
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Yes, you guys will still win series but jokes on you because lebron going to fail again in the finals for CLE against GS or SA. Cool Sometimes i feel bad for cleveland
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ohiogenius


Joined: 11 Jul 2008
Posts: 5735
PostPosted: Sun May 28, 2017 3:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think Peppers will be a solid to great SS but Hooker has the potential to be an elite FS

On that premise I would take Hooker.

This is also based on where you think the Texans end up. I think it will be a low first round pick so not worth it IMO.

Also this is more hindsight is 20/20, but I would have rather walked out with Hooker at 12 and make that trade in the 3rd to pick up the Saints 2nd next year.

I think we couldve gotten our 3rd round DT 8 spots down
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BwickBrownie wrote:
cortes02 wrote:
Would JPP fit in the 3-4??

Peace!!!

If you're referring to fingers on his glove, the answer is yes.
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AkronsWitness


Joined: 17 Jul 2015
Posts: 1623
PostPosted: Sun May 28, 2017 5:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bonanza23 wrote:
LETSGOBROWNIES wrote:
IMO yes.

I'd rather have Peppers and a 1 as opposed to Hooker.

I didn't care for Watson.

OJ Howard is a stud, be we nabbed Njoku who is not quite as good now but is 2 years younger.

I'd make a move like that every year if we could. I think due to our recent history we've become a little spoiled by having multiple firsts, but it's a really great opportunity to improve the talent on your team and they're a difficult asset to acquire.


I agree with this. As much as I loved Howard and really wanted us to get him at 12, there are quite a few that feel Njoku eventually will be better than Howard. I scouted some game tape of him and he isn't a good blocker at all. But he tries really hard and to me can be coached up. His technique is terrible. Needs to add some more strength. But that can come with time as you've said he is only 20.


I feel like they took more 'upside' players and didnt stay pat and take the more 'right now' guys. For instance they passed on guys like Allen and Howard for guys like Peppers and Njoku. You could argue that Allen/Howard were more polished and ready made day 1--but Peppers/Njoku while not being fully polished and are more athletic prospects--they may have higher ceilings.

Since this is a rebuild and not a playoff team, it makes sense that the Browns take higher upside guys who may take 2 years to really find themselves. We are not a right now team anyways.
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Kiwibrown


Joined: 01 May 2006
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PostPosted: Sun May 28, 2017 7:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think in 4 years time it will be worth judging the trade.

If our we have a franchise QB and some productive players then we made the right move.
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Iamcanadian


Joined: 16 Jan 2006
Posts: 262
Location: Wallaceburg, Ontario, Canada
PostPosted: Mon May 29, 2017 11:13 pm    Post subject: Re: Was trading down with the Texans the correct move? Reply with quote

brownie man wrote:
When you look at having guys like

OJ Howard
Jonathan Allen
Malik Hooker

There who are all top 5 top 10 talents was it worth it to drop to 25 pick up the first and select Peppers?

I feel it's a couple questions needed to answer that

1. Why we're these top talents there at 12. Were they truly deserving of the higher praise they received.

Quote:
I heard that the players ranked around 12 to 35 were pretty well in the same ranking, with not a whole lot separating them. If true, it wasn't a terrible trade, but who really knows for sure.


2. What is more impactful having a top 10 player or two top 25 players. When counting the first next year


Quote:
Great football teams are loaded by impact players, you never pass on a potential impact player to just draft 2, let's say, solid starters. Impact players are game changers, and that is what you need to compete. We tried it with the Julio Jones trade and he is one of the huge reasons, Atlanta almost won the SB.



3. Was this first rounder used to hedge our bets on selecting a QB in 2018?

Quote:
Quite possibly, but it is still a huge gamble.


4. What is more important getting potentially a HOF player at 12 or making sure you have the ammo to get the QB you want if needed to select one in 2018.
Quote:


Predicting anything in the draft is always a crapshoot, but that definitely could have been on their minds. If it succeeds, great, but if it doesn't produce a franchise QB, then it is a total flop if the #12 pick pans out as a star.


5. Looking at the big picture knowing we selected Peppers, Njocku, Larry O, and Brantley does that make it easier to accept that you passed on the top free safety, defensive tackle, and tight end.

Quote:
It all depends on what the future brings, way too early to assess anything.



I think we will look at this as the right move. Especially if you take an early look at next years first round. Even excluding all the QBs it's a very front loaded draft. There are more blue chip prospect next year than this year but as of right now next years doesn't have close to the depth this one did. That first round will be crucial. I think this was the best move to get that extra first and be lock and loaded for 2018. As much as it pains to wait.


No matter what we did this year, we were not going to be competitive this coming season, so waiting isn't the worst possible option. However, everybody is assuming that all 3 picks turn out to be starters, never a sure thing in any draft. If one or 2 of the picks flops or turns out to be just average and the #12 pick turns out to be a star, we will have made the wrong choice. Of course, if the extra picks secure a solid franchise QB in the 2017 draft, then who will care about the 2016 draft and all will be right in the universe.
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DizzyDean


Joined: 09 Mar 2017
Posts: 949
PostPosted: Tue May 30, 2017 2:14 am    Post subject: Re: Was trading down with the Texans the correct move? Reply with quote

Iamcanadian wrote:
brownie man wrote:
When you look at having guys like

OJ Howard
Jonathan Allen
Malik Hooker

There who are all top 5 top 10 talents was it worth it to drop to 25 pick up the first and select Peppers?

I feel it's a couple questions needed to answer that

1. Why we're these top talents there at 12. Were they truly deserving of the higher praise they received.

Quote:
I heard that the players ranked around 12 to 35 were pretty well in the same ranking, with not a whole lot separating them. If true, it wasn't a terrible trade, but who really knows for sure.


2. What is more impactful having a top 10 player or two top 25 players. When counting the first next year


Quote:
Great football teams are loaded by impact players, you never pass on a potential impact player to just draft 2, let's say, solid starters. Impact players are game changers, and that is what you need to compete. We tried it with the Julio Jones trade and he is one of the huge reasons, Atlanta almost won the SB.



3. Was this first rounder used to hedge our bets on selecting a QB in 2018?

Quote:
Quite possibly, but it is still a huge gamble.


4. What is more important getting potentially a HOF player at 12 or making sure you have the ammo to get the QB you want if needed to select one in 2018.
Quote:


Predicting anything in the draft is always a crapshoot, but that definitely could have been on their minds. If it succeeds, great, but if it doesn't produce a franchise QB, then it is a total flop if the #12 pick pans out as a star.


5. Looking at the big picture knowing we selected Peppers, Njocku, Larry O, and Brantley does that make it easier to accept that you passed on the top free safety, defensive tackle, and tight end.

Quote:
It all depends on what the future brings, way too early to assess anything.



I think we will look at this as the right move. Especially if you take an early look at next years first round. Even excluding all the QBs it's a very front loaded draft. There are more blue chip prospect next year than this year but as of right now next years doesn't have close to the depth this one did. That first round will be crucial. I think this was the best move to get that extra first and be lock and loaded for 2018. As much as it pains to wait.


No matter what we did this year, we were not going to be competitive this coming season, so waiting isn't the worst possible option. However, everybody is assuming that all 3 picks turn out to be starters, never a sure thing in any draft. If one or 2 of the picks flops or turns out to be just average and the #12 pick turns out to be a star, we will have made the wrong choice. Of course, if the extra picks secure a solid franchise QB in the 2017 draft, then who will care about the 2016 draft and all will be right in the universe.


I disagree, I am not saying that we WILL be competitive this year. But I think that we certainly can be if a few things fall our way.
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freakygeniuskid


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PostPosted: Tue May 30, 2017 12:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree with it conceptually and don't like it personally.

Conceptually, it's the right move. Turn one high quality asset into two, thereby insuring yourself against bust likelihood.

But personally, I love Hooker. I think he is a perfect fit for where the NFL is going and I blew a gasket when we gave up the chance to get him for only a future #1.
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