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G08


Joined: 28 Feb 2011
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PostPosted: Tue May 02, 2017 10:34 pm    Post subject: What's in the Future? Reply with quote

I don't know why but I found myself digging into Pete Carmichael, Jr. lately and this dude has called played for some of the Saints' best statistical seasons offensively.

Call me crazy... but if Fox falls on his face this season, is there a chance he's whacked, Carmichael brought in as HC, and Fangio told he can run his defense carte blanche?

I mean it has everything... young, up-and-coming offensive mind, Saints connection for Pace, and you essentially tie Mitch Trubisky to this offense or you all go down with the ship.
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topwop1 wrote:
My point is you can find a franchise guy like [Derek] Carr in every draft


"I thought it was a stroke of genius. You give [Pace] an A++++ for the move to get Trubisky. That was magnificient." - Bill Polian
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WindyCity


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PostPosted: Tue May 02, 2017 11:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't know.

I really wonder if Pace is itching to fire John Fox. If you knew you were going to go all in at QB and you didn't like Fox, wouldn't you have fired him this year and hired McDaniels or Shannahan?
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G08


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PostPosted: Tue May 02, 2017 11:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

WindyCity wrote:
I don't know.

I really wonder if Pace is itching to fire John Fox. If you knew you were going to go all in at QB and you didn't like Fox, wouldn't you have fired him this year and hired McDaniels or Shannahan?


No because of the monies due. We can't pay 3 consecutive coaches $$$ to not be here.

I don't think he wants Fox gone, but I think Pace knows his way to sustained success is marrying his franchise QB to a bright, up and coming offensive mind.

I don't think Dowell Loggains is that dude. Carmichael is a lazy name for me because of the Saints ties and Drew Brees raves about him.

My only concern would be what happens to Fangio and we had better not deviate from the 3-4.
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topwop1 wrote:
My point is you can find a franchise guy like [Derek] Carr in every draft


"I thought it was a stroke of genius. You give [Pace] an A++++ for the move to get Trubisky. That was magnificient." - Bill Polian
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RunningVaccs


Joined: 28 Sep 2016
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PostPosted: Wed May 03, 2017 9:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Why Fox is still around after last season is the biggest puzzle for the Bears right now. Pace is clearly on full rebuild mode and clearly planned at starting over the a new QB. Why he whiffed on getting a new coach to help select and then train a QB is beyond me. It goes down with the curious barrel-scraping in FA this year as Paces biggest negatives, and I'm aware of but not including the White signing in that.
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WindyCity


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PostPosted: Wed May 03, 2017 9:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

RunningVaccs wrote:
Why Fox is still around after last season is the biggest puzzle for the Bears right now. Pace is clearly on full rebuild mode and clearly planned at starting over the a new QB. Why he whiffed on getting a new coach to help select and then train a QB is beyond me. It goes down with the curious barrel-scraping in FA this year as Paces biggest negatives, and I'm aware of but not including the White signing in that.


I honestly think we have sat through the bottom out of the rebuild.

The Bears did not take a huge step this year on paper, but this is the best Bears team under John Fox and probably under Trestman.
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G08


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PostPosted: Wed May 03, 2017 11:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

WindyCity wrote:
RunningVaccs wrote:
Why Fox is still around after last season is the biggest puzzle for the Bears right now. Pace is clearly on full rebuild mode and clearly planned at starting over the a new QB. Why he whiffed on getting a new coach to help select and then train a QB is beyond me. It goes down with the curious barrel-scraping in FA this year as Paces biggest negatives, and I'm aware of but not including the White signing in that.


I honestly think we have sat through the bottom out of the rebuild.

The Bears did not take a huge step this year on paper, but this is the best Bears team under John Fox and probably under Trestman.


I think Fox has credibility in rebuilding franchises, and he knows how to build defenses. If all he does here is weed out the [inappropriate/removed] and upgrade our defensive talent, I'm good with it.
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topwop1 wrote:
My point is you can find a franchise guy like [Derek] Carr in every draft


"I thought it was a stroke of genius. You give [Pace] an A++++ for the move to get Trubisky. That was magnificient." - Bill Polian
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howru8888


Joined: 22 Jan 2006
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PostPosted: Wed May 03, 2017 3:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

WindyCity wrote:
RunningVaccs wrote:
Why Fox is still around after last season is the biggest puzzle for the Bears right now. Pace is clearly on full rebuild mode and clearly planned at starting over the a new QB. Why he whiffed on getting a new coach to help select and then train a QB is beyond me. It goes down with the curious barrel-scraping in FA this year as Paces biggest negatives, and I'm aware of but not including the White signing in that.


I honestly think we have sat through the bottom out of the rebuild.

The Bears did not take a huge step this year on paper, but this is the best Bears team under John Fox and probably under Trestman.

I hope you're right but Glennon then Trubisky I can definitely see it getting much much worse.
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Madmike90


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PostPosted: Wed May 03, 2017 7:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

As I said in another thread Fox was here to add experience in Pace's first few seasons but he was never the end game...much like Denver where he built an impressive defence but couldn't then kick on and win the big one before being replaced by an offensive guy to push them over the top...same process here...let Fox continue to work on helping the young guys on this D for another season then pair Trubisky with an offensive minded HC and let them grow...Carmichael Jr is an easy name to put out there but with the players we have on offence you can see the fit...the question is does he have the attitude to be an HC or is he a right hand man?...I get the impression McDaniel will will have learned a lot from his first HC experience and been humbled a little...Jim Bob Cooter seems like an upcoming name...and the real wildcard Todd Downing...a guy who helped develop Matt Stafford & Derek Carr and who the Raiders sacked their OC just so they could promote him to stop another team poaching him...could be this years Sean McVay.
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bearsfan323


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PostPosted: Wed May 03, 2017 7:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Madmike90 wrote:
As I said in another thread Fox was here to add experience in Pace's first few seasons but he was never the end game...much like Denver where he built an impressive defence but couldn't then kick on and win the big one before being replaced by an offensive guy to push them over the top...same process here...let Fox continue to work on helping the young guys on this D for another season then pair Trubisky with an offensive minded HC and let them grow...Carmichael Jr is an easy name to put out there but with the players we have on offence you can see the fit...the question is does he have the attitude to be an HC or is he a right hand man?...I get the impression McDaniel will will have learned a lot from his first HC experience and been humbled a little...Jim Bob Cooter seems like an upcoming name...and the real wildcard Todd Downing...a guy who helped develop Matt Stafford & Derek Carr and who the Raiders sacked their OC just so they could promote him to stop another team poaching him...could be this years Sean McVay.

Take a flight to Palo Alto, show up on David Shaw's doorstep and write him a [inappropriate/removed] check for however much he wants
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Madmike90


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PostPosted: Wed May 03, 2017 7:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

bearsfan323 wrote:
Madmike90 wrote:
As I said in another thread Fox was here to add experience in Pace's first few seasons but he was never the end game...much like Denver where he built an impressive defence but couldn't then kick on and win the big one before being replaced by an offensive guy to push them over the top...same process here...let Fox continue to work on helping the young guys on this D for another season then pair Trubisky with an offensive minded HC and let them grow...Carmichael Jr is an easy name to put out there but with the players we have on offence you can see the fit...the question is does he have the attitude to be an HC or is he a right hand man?...I get the impression McDaniel will will have learned a lot from his first HC experience and been humbled a little...Jim Bob Cooter seems like an upcoming name...and the real wildcard Todd Downing...a guy who helped develop Matt Stafford & Derek Carr and who the Raiders sacked their OC just so they could promote him to stop another team poaching him...could be this years Sean McVay.

Take a flight to Palo Alto, show up on David Shaw's doorstep and write him a [inappropriate/removed] check for however much he wants


They are not going to throw money at guys...there still paying Trestman then they would be paying Fox...add in Emery is still probably owed money and they aren't going to spend the kind of money it would take to get Shaw into the NFL...plus don't think for a second that isn't a risk in itself...Harbaugh built that program and Shaw just continued it...speaking of Jim there is zero chance he leaves Michigan...

We need to try and build our own star HC.
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bearsfan323


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PostPosted: Wed May 03, 2017 8:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Madmike90 wrote:
bearsfan323 wrote:
Madmike90 wrote:
As I said in another thread Fox was here to add experience in Pace's first few seasons but he was never the end game...much like Denver where he built an impressive defence but couldn't then kick on and win the big one before being replaced by an offensive guy to push them over the top...same process here...let Fox continue to work on helping the young guys on this D for another season then pair Trubisky with an offensive minded HC and let them grow...Carmichael Jr is an easy name to put out there but with the players we have on offence you can see the fit...the question is does he have the attitude to be an HC or is he a right hand man?...I get the impression McDaniel will will have learned a lot from his first HC experience and been humbled a little...Jim Bob Cooter seems like an upcoming name...and the real wildcard Todd Downing...a guy who helped develop Matt Stafford & Derek Carr and who the Raiders sacked their OC just so they could promote him to stop another team poaching him...could be this years Sean McVay.

Take a flight to Palo Alto, show up on David Shaw's doorstep and write him a [inappropriate/removed] check for however much he wants


They are not going to throw money at guys...there still paying Trestman then they would be paying Fox...add in Emery is still probably owed money and they aren't going to spend the kind of money it would take to get Shaw into the NFL...plus don't think for a second that isn't a risk in itself...Harbaugh built that program and Shaw just continued it...speaking of Jim there is zero chance he leaves Michigan...

We need to try and build our own star HC.

Shaw isn't exactly breaking the bank at Stanford. I can't imagine it'll take too much more to get him to coach a professional team. Harbaugh built it, sure, but Shaw has continued to add on to a school that's never been a powerhouse, without Luck, by adding the Solomon Thomas's and Christian McCaffrey's of the world. He can bring his offense- smashmouth D and run the ball O- to this team as he develops MT (another strength of his) and it'd be a perfect fit. Shaw would be an absolute home run, and they won't be paying Trestman for too much longer.
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Madmike90


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PostPosted: Wed May 03, 2017 8:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

bearsfan323 wrote:
Madmike90 wrote:
bearsfan323 wrote:
Madmike90 wrote:
As I said in another thread Fox was here to add experience in Pace's first few seasons but he was never the end game...much like Denver where he built an impressive defence but couldn't then kick on and win the big one before being replaced by an offensive guy to push them over the top...same process here...let Fox continue to work on helping the young guys on this D for another season then pair Trubisky with an offensive minded HC and let them grow...Carmichael Jr is an easy name to put out there but with the players we have on offence you can see the fit...the question is does he have the attitude to be an HC or is he a right hand man?...I get the impression McDaniel will will have learned a lot from his first HC experience and been humbled a little...Jim Bob Cooter seems like an upcoming name...and the real wildcard Todd Downing...a guy who helped develop Matt Stafford & Derek Carr and who the Raiders sacked their OC just so they could promote him to stop another team poaching him...could be this years Sean McVay.

Take a flight to Palo Alto, show up on David Shaw's doorstep and write him a [inappropriate/removed] check for however much he wants


They are not going to throw money at guys...there still paying Trestman then they would be paying Fox...add in Emery is still probably owed money and they aren't going to spend the kind of money it would take to get Shaw into the NFL...plus don't think for a second that isn't a risk in itself...Harbaugh built that program and Shaw just continued it...speaking of Jim there is zero chance he leaves Michigan...

We need to try and build our own star HC.

Shaw isn't exactly breaking the bank at Stanford. I can't imagine it'll take too much more to get him to coach a professional team. Harbaugh built it, sure, but Shaw has continued to add on to a school that's never been a powerhouse, without Luck, by adding the Solomon Thomas's and Christian McCaffrey's of the world. Shaw would be an absolute home run, and they won't be paying Trestman for too much longer.


Shaw is making $3.9 million at Stanford...Fox is only making $4.25 million so the difference really isn't that much...plus why leave a program like that to come to us? If Shaw wants to jump to the NFL every team looking for an HC would be interested...we need to focus on building a log term strategy not just going after the biggest names.
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WindyCity


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PostPosted: Wed May 03, 2017 10:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I actually think the hard work for Pace starts now and the 2018 offseason is far bigger for him.

Drafting a QB was a big decision, but it had to happen.

Now he needs to show that he can build a team around that QB to make him successful and to show that he can avoid the mistakes of the Cutler era.

If Trubisky sucks than that is a problem, but if he sucks because the Bears learned nothing from Cutler than that is unforgivable.
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Sugashane


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PostPosted: Thu May 04, 2017 2:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Madmike90 wrote:
As I said in another thread Fox was here to add experience in Pace's first few seasons but he was never the end game...much like Denver where he built an impressive defence but couldn't then kick on and win the big one before being replaced by an offensive guy to push them over the top...same process here...let Fox continue to work on helping the young guys on this D for another season then pair Trubisky with an offensive minded HC and let them grow...Carmichael Jr is an easy name to put out there but with the players we have on offence you can see the fit...the question is does he have the attitude to be an HC or is he a right hand man?...I get the impression McDaniel will will have learned a lot from his first HC experience and been humbled a little...Jim Bob Cooter seems like an upcoming name...and the real wildcard Todd Downing...a guy who helped develop Matt Stafford & Derek Carr and who the Raiders sacked their OC just so they could promote him to stop another team poaching him...could be this years Sean McVay.


Downing also got a respectable passing game out of Orton and Manuel in 2014 as a QB coach.

Cooter has a bit of a checkered past with the DUI and surprise spooning ordeal, though they were a number of years ago. I'm not sure Pace would look past that though.

Carmichael is interesting because he has lead a dynamic offense with Payton, but it is just hard to imagine he is THE major cog when you have Sean Payton and Drew Brees involved around him. But being the top offense 3-4 out of his years as OC isn't a fluke. I wish we knew more if he had a commanding presence in a locker room or will able to get the "father figure treatment" Lovie got with his players. Either can work, but I have no clue on him. He may be the next Trestman.

McDaniels is a top choice to me, as he got smacked pretty hard in DEN. I look past his year in STL since he had a garbage cast to work with and no personnel power. While we won't be threatening Brady lead offenses, I think he would really be able to advance Trubisky as a QB. I think he and Pace would have a very high-energy dynamic and Pace would be able to supply him with talented players.

Harbaugh is making a ton at Michigan, I would still at least make a call if I was Pace. He would demand a massive deal, likely getting over $9 mil per year (the highest in the NFL) among other demands, so I doubt that would even be considered, but if so he would be the choice without a doubt.
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topwop1


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PostPosted: Thu May 04, 2017 8:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Madmike90 wrote:
As I said in another thread Fox was here to add experience in Pace's first few seasons but he was never the end game...much like Denver where he built an impressive defence but couldn't then kick on and win the big one before being replaced by an offensive guy to push them over the top...same process here...let Fox continue to work on helping the young guys on this D for another season then pair Trubisky with an offensive minded HC and let them grow...Carmichael Jr is an easy name to put out there but with the players we have on offence you can see the fit...the question is does he have the attitude to be an HC or is he a right hand man?...I get the impression McDaniel will will have learned a lot from his first HC experience and been humbled a little...Jim Bob Cooter seems like an upcoming name...and the real wildcard Todd Downing...a guy who helped develop Matt Stafford & Derek Carr and who the Raiders sacked their OC just so they could promote him to stop another team poaching him...could be this years Sean McVay.


I wouldn't get your hopes up or bank on it happening unless the Bears have another really poor season with 5 or less wins, and even then it might not be a slam dunk.

Both Pace and Fox look entrenched for at least the next couple of years.

Forget the money part, if they were going to make a move at HC then they would have already done it with Trubisky being added to the mix. To fire all the coaches after his 1st year of development in the NFL seems like an extremely backwards move.
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