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Just my two cents 17
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CWood21


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PostPosted: Sat May 06, 2017 8:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

CentralFC wrote:
Those are excellent points on the depressed benefit of the fifth year options for the more stable organizations. The free "$2M player" (Biegel) will be a big help for us on teams and as a depth rusher. I think the trade was a tremendous success.


I think that goes a LONG way into teams who look to lock up their young players early. I mean, the draft and develop mantra has been clearly part of our locker room since Ted Thompson has taken over that players expect to get their second contracts from Green Bay. I mean, how many top draft picks have failed to receive a 2nd contract from Green Bay despite being productive? You'd probably looking at Eddie Lacy, Casey Hayward, and James Jones as players who signed elsewhere after their rookie contracts expired. If Kevin King turns out to be a stud, he'll be locked up long term well before that 5th year option would kick in.
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Cadmus


Joined: 22 Apr 2013
Posts: 2342
PostPosted: Sat May 06, 2017 9:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

CWood21 wrote:
CentralFC wrote:
Those are excellent points on the depressed benefit of the fifth year options for the more stable organizations. The free "$2M player" (Biegel) will be a big help for us on teams and as a depth rusher. I think the trade was a tremendous success.


I think that goes a LONG way into teams who look to lock up their young players early. I mean, the draft and develop mantra has been clearly part of our locker room since Ted Thompson has taken over that players expect to get their second contracts from Green Bay. I mean, how many top draft picks have failed to receive a 2nd contract from Green Bay despite being productive? You'd probably looking at Eddie Lacy, Casey Hayward, and James Jones as players who signed elsewhere after their rookie contracts expired. If Kevin King turns out to be a stud, he'll be locked up long term well before that 5th year option would kick in.


James Jones re-signed with the Packers in 2011 after his rookie deal expired. He signed a 3-Year Contract with Green Bay worth 9.6 Million.

I agree with your overall point though CWood.
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palmy50


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PostPosted: Sat May 06, 2017 9:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I only brought it up so the conversation could be had. I can see that thing both ways pending many things none of us know now.
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Shanedorf


Joined: 18 Mar 2014
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PostPosted: Sat May 06, 2017 10:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

palmy50 wrote:
I only brought it up so the conversation could be had. I can see that thing both ways pending many things none of us know now.

There's lots of things to consider and the OTC piece is really only looking at it from a contract pov, not a roster-building pov

The Packers have had a real mixed bag with the 5th year options on their players. Sometimes just having that option impacts negotiations, even if you don't use it. And now that teams can rollover cap with impunity, the dynamic of locking up guys mid-season changes too.
In the end, having an option is usually better than not having one- just depends on how much you're willing to pay for the privelege
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PossibleCabbage


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PostPosted: Sat May 06, 2017 11:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Considering how the Packers these days always seem to have quite a lot of cap room, I don't really see there being much of a problem resigning Kevin King after 3-4 years, if his play merits it. It seems where the 5th year option really matters is when you really hit big on a guy who plays a big money position (QB or Edge, say). I don't see anybody in the near-term leaving Green Bay if both the team and the player want him there.
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Gopackgonerd


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PostPosted: Sun May 07, 2017 12:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

TheOnlyThing wrote:
palmy50 wrote:
AlexGreen#20 wrote:


I have my own opinions on this but I'd like to hear yours. How much of last year's struggles with that group were injury related vs just not being ready or not being very good? And also, how do you feel about that group going into the year?


I personally feel a few things needed to go wrong to create such a disaster.

1) The Shields injury put players in positions they clearly were not ready for. We seen the same thing on offense the year prior when Nelson went down.


You've alluded a couple times to the Shields in jury at CB significantly (and negatively) impacting the defense in 2016 much like the Nelson injury at WR hurt the offense in 2015.

Question, do you see any chance of history repeating itself in 2017 at OLB?

Behind Clay and Perry (who both have extensive injury histories) are 3 very young and virtually untested guys, including a 4th round rookie.

Maybe OLB is not as important to GB as CB or WR or maybe the depth behind the starters is better, but I'd love to get your take.
I'd honestly take less depth at OLB than CB because of what transpired last year, doesn't matter how much pass rush you have, if you can get the ball out of your hands fast like good QBs do, it really doesn't matter. I mean we won the super bowl with Frank Zombo starting in it (IIRC) and we had an excellent Secondary. Since it's a passing league right now I think Edge/Corner are in the same range as premium positions imo.
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Shanedorf


Joined: 18 Mar 2014
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PostPosted: Tue May 16, 2017 6:15 pm    Post subject: Re: Just my two cents 17 Reply with quote

palmy50 wrote:

Biegel: Biegel was one of mine but got pulled on medical with a foot before I graded him out.


thx for sharing that insight
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palmy50


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PostPosted: Tue May 16, 2017 6:28 pm    Post subject: Re: Just my two cents 17 Reply with quote

Shanedorf wrote:
palmy50 wrote:

Biegel: Biegel was one of mine but got pulled on medical with a foot before I graded him out.


thx for sharing that insight


I just hope that's the end of it for that kid. Unfortunately feet issues have a terrible habit of popping up again. They are kinda like back issues on the big guys. They are both almost a deal breaker in our room. Clearly this is not the case in Green Bay with the feet.

We took some crap that year for passing on Lacy and sure enough Lacy was always working on that foot. Let's hope Biegel is done with this thing post surgery.
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Shanedorf


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PostPosted: Tue May 16, 2017 8:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here's what ProFootballDoc says on Biegel :

"Assuming it heals before week 1, chances are good he will be fine.
Re-operation rate high if too quick to return. See #Dez #Edelman #Watkins.
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Frank-O


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PostPosted: Tue May 16, 2017 11:58 pm    Post subject: Re: Just my two cents 17 Reply with quote

palmy50 wrote:
Shanedorf wrote:
palmy50 wrote:

Biegel: Biegel was one of mine but got pulled on medical with a foot before I graded him out.


thx for sharing that insight


I just hope that's the end of it for that kid. Unfortunately feet issues have a terrible habit of popping up again. They are kinda like back issues on the big guys. They are both almost a deal breaker in our room. Clearly this is not the case in Green Bay with the feet.

We took some crap that year for passing on Lacy and sure enough Lacy was always working on that foot. Let's hope Biegel is done with this thing post surgery.

I think you guys chose the right RB that year. Very Happy
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palmy50


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PostPosted: Sun May 21, 2017 8:36 am    Post subject: Re: Just my two cents 17 Reply with quote

Frank-O wrote:
palmy50 wrote:
Shanedorf wrote:
palmy50 wrote:

Biegel: Biegel was one of mine but got pulled on medical with a foot before I graded him out.


thx for sharing that insight


I just hope that's the end of it for that kid. Unfortunately feet issues have a terrible habit of popping up again. They are kinda like back issues on the big guys. They are both almost a deal breaker in our room. Clearly this is not the case in Green Bay with the feet.

We took some crap that year for passing on Lacy and sure enough Lacy was always working on that foot. Let's hope Biegel is done with this thing post surgery.

I think you guys chose the right RB that year. Very Happy


Clearly this is accurate. I was just in the fire for a bit there because a Big10 kid was involved.
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Donzo


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PostPosted: Sun May 21, 2017 10:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lacy's foot was fine in GB... His first three years he missed one game, I can't remember what that was for... Last year was ruined by an ankle injury, which had nothing to do with Lacy's foot/toe problems at Alabama... He had that asthma thing, too, which of course had nothing to do with his feet.

Oddly enough, Bell has missed a lot time because of injuries, including foot problems.
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palmy50


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PostPosted: Sun May 21, 2017 10:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Donzo wrote:
Lacy's foot was fine in GB... His first three years he missed one game, I can't remember what that was for... Last year was ruined by an ankle injury, which had nothing to do with Lacy's foot/toe problems at Alabama... He had that asthma thing, too, which of course had nothing to do with his feet.

Oddly enough, Bell has missed a lot time because of injuries, including foot problems.


I'm not gonna get into this one too much. I'll just say that simply isn't true with Lacy. That foot was worked on often in Green Bay.
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Donzo


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PostPosted: Sun May 21, 2017 11:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Everything I posted is exactly what happened.
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Packerraymond


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PostPosted: Sun May 21, 2017 12:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Big backs in the NFL are always going to have lower leg problems, once they get outside the tackles or passed the first level all DBs do these days is dive at legs full speed. If they don't have the injury concerns there in college it's bound to catch up to them in the NFL. Lacy had a a habit of going airborne too, that only made his problems worse. The injury that ended his GB career was him airborne getting hit in the lower leg by a DBs helmet. I saw it at the stadium and knew he was done for a few weeks at minimum. He deserves a ton of credit for gutting it out all the times he did here, the Dallas game was probably extremely painful.
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