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Bob McGinn with worst mock draft :)
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AlexGreen#20


Joined: 13 Jun 2012
Posts: 13518
PostPosted: Wed May 03, 2017 1:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Packerraymond wrote:
TransientTexan wrote:
Csraverage wrote:
Not sure if old news, but McGinn is leaving Journal Sentinel. https://twitter.com/PFWAwriters/status/859774199740628992


thank God. hopefully they replace him with someone who can actually be objective and knows something about football.


That was the best part about Bob, he admitted he didn't know everything about football and that's why from the start of his career on, he built relationships with coaches, scouts and on up from there. Almost nothing he wrote didn't have backing from someone in the league. You're not going to get that from his replacement.

It's just you guys don't want to hear it, but it was totally fair to say Ted has not been good the last 2 years. I just read an article that other teams scouts referred to him as Tyrannosaurus Ted. He was stale, old fashioned and stubborn. Now I didn't agree with many of McGinn's opinions but as a journalist I respected him.


I don't intend to scoff at a different opinion than mine, but "anonymous sources" don't really do it for me anymore. Too easy to fake.
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From the day he was born and subsequently starting to grow into his short neck, round face, scruffy beard and pale face, Bulaga was destined to be a Packers O-Linemen for life.
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Packerraymond


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PostPosted: Wed May 03, 2017 2:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

PossibleCabbage wrote:
Packerraymond wrote:
Bob's NFL Draft coverage will be missed. I'm not sure any writer will ever establish a connection with so many scouts/personnel men in the league. Was like a tradition for me since I was a kid a week away from the draft to read position by position the scouts thoughts on the draft.


I wonder if we're on the verge of a cultural change in the "NFL draft coverage" since increasingly people seem to scoff at "anonymous scouts" and more value the draft writers who do their own evaluations (or work with teams to do this).

I mean, without anonymous scout quotes I won't know who's a "different kind of kid" or any of those personality details, but I'm not sure if I need them.


I'd much rather hear a scouts opinion than some guy's on the internet.
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AlexGreen#20


Joined: 13 Jun 2012
Posts: 13518
PostPosted: Wed May 03, 2017 2:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Packerraymond wrote:
PossibleCabbage wrote:
Packerraymond wrote:
Bob's NFL Draft coverage will be missed. I'm not sure any writer will ever establish a connection with so many scouts/personnel men in the league. Was like a tradition for me since I was a kid a week away from the draft to read position by position the scouts thoughts on the draft.


I wonder if we're on the verge of a cultural change in the "NFL draft coverage" since increasingly people seem to scoff at "anonymous scouts" and more value the draft writers who do their own evaluations (or work with teams to do this).

I mean, without anonymous scout quotes I won't know who's a "different kind of kid" or any of those personality details, but I'm not sure if I need them.


I'd much rather hear a scouts opinion than some guy's on the internet.


Yet they're impossible to verify.

All of McGinn's stuff could be faked.

Just like how Mike Freemen on bleacher report supposedly found 6 scouts to mock Ted Thompson for being old fashioned.

Quote:
Quietly, his greatest admirers have been shaking their heads in confusion, and younger personnel men and scouts have mocked him as prehistoric, according to interviews with a half-dozen executives.

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BroncoinGermany wrote:
From the day he was born and subsequently starting to grow into his short neck, round face, scruffy beard and pale face, Bulaga was destined to be a Packers O-Linemen for life.
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CentralFC


Joined: 03 Feb 2011
Posts: 11933
PostPosted: Wed May 03, 2017 2:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

AlexGreen#20 wrote:
Packerraymond wrote:
PossibleCabbage wrote:
Packerraymond wrote:
Bob's NFL Draft coverage will be missed. I'm not sure any writer will ever establish a connection with so many scouts/personnel men in the league. Was like a tradition for me since I was a kid a week away from the draft to read position by position the scouts thoughts on the draft.


I wonder if we're on the verge of a cultural change in the "NFL draft coverage" since increasingly people seem to scoff at "anonymous scouts" and more value the draft writers who do their own evaluations (or work with teams to do this).

I mean, without anonymous scout quotes I won't know who's a "different kind of kid" or any of those personality details, but I'm not sure if I need them.


I'd much rather hear a scouts opinion than some guy's on the internet.


Yet they're impossible to verify.

All of McGinn's stuff could be faked.

Just like how Mike Freemen on bleacher report supposedly found 6 scouts to mock Ted Thompson for being old fashioned.

Quote:
Quietly, his greatest admirers have been shaking their heads in confusion, and younger personnel men and scouts have mocked him as prehistoric, according to interviews with a half-dozen executives.



Tough to compare Mike Freeman of Bleacher Report to a guy who's been in the business for damn near three decades.

Definitely easy to fake anonymous sources. It would just be more surprising coming from someone like Bob who had, at one point, incredible access to Wolf and co. I'm sure he's fostered quite a few relationships with former coaches, executives, and players-turned-executives. Think McGinn was doing his analysis far before questioning the validity of anonymous sources was in vogue.

I have a hard time saying that about Freeman.

Quote:
In January 2004, Freeman resigned before starting a columnist job at The Indianapolis Star after he was discovered lying about his education, specifically falsely claiming a college degree.[3] Tom Jolly, sports editor at The New York Times, said "Mike's career here speaks for itself, he did some great work here".[4] Freeman subsequently said "There are no excuses and I have never made any. Never will either. Iíll get my degree this summer or fall and start my pursuit of an advanced degree the following spring."[5]

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packerjmf wrote:
GWH87 wrote:
Somebody take the off season shovel out of Ted's hands & bury him in his own hole.

How can he dig a hole if he's too busy sitting on his hands?
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{Family Ghost}


Joined: 08 Jun 2010
Posts: 2866
PostPosted: Wed May 03, 2017 2:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Who should replace Bob McGinn? Michael Rodney at Packers Notes said Greg Bedard. Bedard just got let go by Sports Illustrated a few days ago in their latest round of layoffs. I'm not sure he wants to return to GB, but he might make for a solid choice. He's a veteran NFL writer who I would presume has a lot of connections.
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TransientTexan


Joined: 27 Jul 2014
Posts: 566
Location: Connecticut
PostPosted: Wed May 03, 2017 2:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Packerraymond wrote:


It's just you guys don't want to hear it


That's bull. I have no problem hearing things if they are from experienced, verifiable sources or if they keep a proper perspective of different situations around the league to determine reasonable expectations.

Packerraymond wrote:

Ted has not been good the last 2 years.


Your opinion. I disagree.
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jontat83


Joined: 07 Sep 2016
Posts: 557
Location: UK
PostPosted: Wed May 03, 2017 2:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Csraverage wrote:
Not sure if old news, but McGinn is leaving Journal Sentinel. https://twitter.com/PFWAwriters/status/859774199740628992


Shame, really enjoyed his articles especially his opposition scouting ones. Hope he enjoys his retirement.
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Shanedorf


Joined: 18 Mar 2014
Posts: 1583
PostPosted: Wed May 03, 2017 3:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

AlexGreen#20 wrote:

Yet they're impossible to verify.
All of McGinn's stuff could be faked.


He used to name names, but for whatever reason he stopped
Here's a link to the 2010 comments on Bulaga and you'll note some are anonymous, while others are attributed. Comments from AJ Smith and Bill Polian are listed

http://archive.jsonline.com/packerinsider/91880479.html
.
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NormSizedMidget


Joined: 28 Mar 2011
Posts: 17912
PostPosted: Wed May 03, 2017 4:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Csraverage wrote:
Not sure if old news, but McGinn is leaving Journal Sentinel. https://twitter.com/PFWAwriters/status/859774199740628992


Great day to be alive
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Packerraymond


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Joined: 31 Mar 2005
Posts: 19293
Location: Oconomowoc, WI
PostPosted: Wed May 03, 2017 4:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

TransientTexan wrote:
Packerraymond wrote:


It's just you guys don't want to hear it


That's bull. I have no problem hearing things if they are from experienced, verifiable sources or if they keep a proper perspective of different situations around the league to determine reasonable expectations.

Packerraymond wrote:

Ted has not been good the last 2 years.


Your opinion. I disagree.


Sorry but no scout is going to put their name to a quote anymore. McGinn used to name the personnel guys back when I was younger, but in this day and age with how fast info travels and how many outlets there are, no one is willing to put a name to a quote anymore. That doesn't bother my as McGinn has been interviewing these guys since before I was alive.

I absolutely feel people's problems with McGinn stem from the fact that they can't take anyone criticizing him. His stuff has gotten bad the last 18 months or so, there was a definite spin to it, but it wasnt always that way.
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Packerraymond


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Location: Oconomowoc, WI
PostPosted: Wed May 03, 2017 4:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Shanedorf wrote:
AlexGreen#20 wrote:

Yet they're impossible to verify.
All of McGinn's stuff could be faked.


He used to name names, but for whatever reason he stopped
Here's a link to the 2010 comments on Bulaga and you'll note some are anonymous, while others are attributed. Comments from AJ Smith and Bill Polian are listed

http://archive.jsonline.com/packerinsider/91880479.html
.


I remember watching a show back my first years of college that used a quote one of the bigger personnel guys said that was a bit controversial and it was a big topic on the show. No one wants to put their name on something anymore because it's not just read by Bob McGinn's market it's shared on every possible outlet. No one wants the attention drawn to themselves.
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Shanedorf


Joined: 18 Mar 2014
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PostPosted: Wed May 03, 2017 5:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Packerraymond wrote:


I absolutely feel people's problems with McGinn stem from the fact that they can't take anyone criticizing him. His stuff has gotten bad the last 18 months or so, there was a definite spin to it, but it wasn't always that way.

Yes and no on criticizing TT, if its legit, most are OK with it- but a lot of them were unfounded or unreasonable as TTexan noted earlier.

Cadmus pointed out the changes that occurred after Gannett came in as the new owners.
And the world has changed from the times of the Walter Cronkite-type reporting to the modern day fire drills that pass for "news"

And as I noted earlier, there are (2) types of Bob articles, one with tons of good info/insight and ones that's are a #hot take agitation article.

Norm dances for joy because the agitation stuff is over, while others lament the loss of his informative pieces.
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TransientTexan


Joined: 27 Jul 2014
Posts: 566
Location: Connecticut
PostPosted: Wed May 03, 2017 5:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Packerraymond wrote:


I absolutely feel people's problems with McGinn stem from the fact that they can't take anyone criticizing him. His stuff has gotten bad the last 18 months or so, there was a definite spin to it, but it wasnt always that way.


Many people's support for McGinn stems from the fact that fan egos get so wrapped up in team success. As team success grows, the fan ego grows and what used to be sufficient success no longer is. This causes anger/disappointment in the fan when the team falls short in backing up that ego. This causes lashing out in differing degrees at the team. This unreasonableness causes a guilty conscience in the fan, which the fan tries to assuage by seeking out external sources that would seem to justify their anger.

The changes in expectations are not grounded in any rational analysis of historical probabilities of success in the league/draft or contender "windows" or an understanding of systemic factors that hinder it. Proper reference frames are not used. Comprehensive comparisons to other teams in the league (past or current) are never included. The only reference frame used is each individual's arbitrary desired level of success. I have zero problem with criticism as long as it is backed up by proper reference frames and non-anecdotal evidence.

Perhaps he used to be a better writer, but that ship sailed long ago and been replaced by some combination of axe-grinding and click-bait.
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NormSizedMidget


Joined: 28 Mar 2011
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PostPosted: Wed May 03, 2017 5:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

{Family Ghost} wrote:
Who should replace Bob McGinn? Michael Rodney at Packers Notes said Greg Bedard. Bedard just got let go by Sports Illustrated a few days ago in their latest round of layoffs. I'm not sure he wants to return to GB, but he might make for a solid choice. He's a veteran NFL writer who I would presume has a lot of connections.


Bedard wa sthe guy I was trying to think of the other day that I liked that used to be here.

I googled to make sure he was the guy I was thinking of and found this lol

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/712936-ex-packers-beat-writer-pays-for-his-traitorous-crimes

Kind of relevant to all of our anon sources convo that got in here to a degree.

TransientTexan wrote:
Packerraymond wrote:


I absolutely feel people's problems with McGinn stem from the fact that they can't take anyone criticizing him. His stuff has gotten bad the last 18 months or so, there was a definite spin to it, but it wasnt always that way.


Many people's support for McGinn stems from the fact that fan egos get so wrapped up in team success. As team success grows, the fan ego grows and what used to be sufficient success no longer is. This causes anger/disappointment in the fan when the team falls short in backing up that ego. This causes lashing out in differing degrees at the team. This unreasonableness causes a guilty conscience in the fan, which the fan tries to assuage by seeking out external sources that would seem to justify their anger.

The changes in expectations are not grounded in any rational analysis of historical probabilities of success in the league/draft or contender "windows" or an understanding of systemic factors that hinder it. Proper reference frames are not used. Comprehensive comparisons to other teams in the league (past or current) are never included. The only reference frame used is each individual's arbitrary desired level of success. I have zero problem with criticism as long as it is backed up by proper reference frames and non-anecdotal evidence.

Perhaps he used to be a better writer, but that ship sailed long ago and been replaced by some combination of axe-grinding and click-bait.


And posts like this are 10x more high end that most of what beat reporters analysis, of anything, ends up being.
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HyponGrey


Joined: 23 Jun 2012
Posts: 3821
Location: Down the road from NFL Films
PostPosted: Wed May 03, 2017 7:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

driftwood wrote:
Shanedorf wrote:
So post something better, that's all I'm saying
I post links to stuff all the time, its for the opportunity to read others work
I make no claims that Mcginn is awesome or perfect or great- that's for each and every reader here to decide for themselves.

You want to read better stuff here, then post better stuff. Look at the great work we got from Central and Cadmus during the draft, exceptional work

The board gains nothing by ripping mcginn; any monkey can do that.


we do read better stuff... all the time. i follow a ton of better stuff on twitter & other outlets... & a lot of those articles get posted here too.

but there is also a large group here (including myself) that doesn't like Mcginns work & were being vocal about it.

thats how community boards/forums work. /shrugs
I haven't read a McGinn article in two years. No clicks, no job.
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