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Where does Stafford rank as a QB in the NFL?
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detroitroar


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PostPosted: Tue May 02, 2017 9:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Look at Stafford, and Wilsons stat line from the playoff game. Wilsons better, right?

Oh wait, Stafford was on the road in the hardest stadium to play in; Stafford faced a much better defense; Wilsons receivers made one miraculous catch after another, while Lions WR's dropped one after another. A microcosm of his career.
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diehardlionfan


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PostPosted: Tue May 02, 2017 11:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Brady, Rodgers, Brees, Rivers, Stafford.
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FootballPhreak


Joined: 09 Oct 2007
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PostPosted: Wed May 03, 2017 1:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

detroitroar wrote:
FootballPhreak wrote:
detroitroar wrote:
Did this dance for years and people consistently undervalue him.

List of QB's whom a legitimate amount of people in these parts argued were better than Stafford at some point:

-Mark Sanchez
- Josh Freeman
- Matt Schaub
- Jake Locker
- Ryan Tannehill
- Colin Kaepernick
- RG3
- Jay Cutler
- Nick Foles
- Kirk Cousins
- Teddy Bridgewater
- Andy Dalton
- Joe Flacco
- Alex Smith
- Blake Bortles

On, and on. Only point being Stafford never gets the respect he deserves. I think a lot of it has to do with being picked #1; a good bit has to do with the money he makes; I think most fans are turned off by Strong Armed QB's to an extent. They see that natural physical trait and hold it against him. Some of it simply has to do with people not knowing what they're watching, to be honest.

At some point, most of those had a case that they were or could be better. Are you sure they were the one with a bias?

I'll connect the dots for you; a good portion of these guys, clearly are not better than Stafford. Just because they had a better statistical season, didnt make them better, like I often argued. You notice there is a variety of ages / time frames to work with. If they were truly better, it would become more, and more evident over time; instead, the opposite has happened.

Now I guess you can argue that they regressed, Stafford progressed, they've been unlucky, Staffords been lucky, whatever.

You say you are going to connect the dots for me. Like you are some highly enlightened storehouse of NFL talent knowledge. Then you go on to completely ignore the point as if the dots are invisible. It seems to me I put the dots out there and you preferred to ignore them. But I digress. I suppose the only evidence with meaning out there is what you decide has meaning.
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Iamcanadian


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PostPosted: Thu May 04, 2017 1:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lions017 wrote:
I think that these guys are definitely better than Matt Stafford...

Tom Brady
Aaron Rodgers
Drew Brees
Russell Wilson
Ben Roethlisberger
Philip Rivers

That's about it. Stafford is right there in the mix in the next tier, with guys like Matt Ryan, Derek Carr, Andrew Luck, and Cam Newton. You could even argue that Roethlisberger or Rivers have regressed if you want, I suppose. Top 10 seems pretty safe the more than I look at it.


I rate him top 15. IMO, there are about 15 franchise QB's currently in the NFL. I would rate him behind a healthy Luck, there with Rivers. Of course Carr, Mariota and Winston are coming quickly as well.

Until Stafford puts up a few playoff wins, he has to take a back seat to those who have. Putting him ahead of QB's who have produced playoff wins, just appears to me to be wishful thinking.
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FootballPhreak


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PostPosted: Thu May 04, 2017 3:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree mostly with others, that 8-10 range. I, personally would take Luck and Winston ahead of him. Probably not Mariota though.
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LionsFTW


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PostPosted: Thu May 04, 2017 9:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

FootballPhreak wrote:
I agree mostly with others, that 8-10 range. I, personally would take Luck and Winston ahead of him. Probably not Mariota though.


Seems backwards iyam. I wouldn't take neither Mariota or Winston over Stafford, but if I had to, it would be Mariota.
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Sllim Pickens


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PostPosted: Thu May 04, 2017 10:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

LionsFTW wrote:
FootballPhreak wrote:
I agree mostly with others, that 8-10 range. I, personally would take Luck and Winston ahead of him. Probably not Mariota though.


Seems backwards iyam. I wouldn't take neither Mariota or Winston over Stafford, but if I had to, it would be Mariota.


I would take both if I was starting a franchise now, neither if I want to win now. I probably would take Luck over Stafford now, but its close.
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diehardlionfan


Joined: 12 Mar 2007
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PostPosted: Thu May 04, 2017 3:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Iamcanadian wrote:
Lions017 wrote:
I think that these guys are definitely better than Matt Stafford...

Tom Brady
Aaron Rodgers
Drew Brees
Russell Wilson
Ben Roethlisberger
Philip Rivers

That's about it. Stafford is right there in the mix in the next tier, with guys like Matt Ryan, Derek Carr, Andrew Luck, and Cam Newton. You could even argue that Roethlisberger or Rivers have regressed if you want, I suppose. Top 10 seems pretty safe the more than I look at it.


I rate him top 15. IMO, there are about 15 franchise QB's currently in the NFL. I would rate him behind a healthy Luck, there with Rivers. Of course Carr, Mariota and Winston are coming quickly as well.

Until Stafford puts up a few playoff wins, he has to take a back seat to those who have. Putting him ahead of QB's who have produced playoff wins, just appears to me to be wishful thinking.


I understand your thinking about playoff wins but in my opinion to much emphasis is placed on playoff wins affecting individual rankings in a team sport.
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Sllim Pickens


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PostPosted: Thu May 04, 2017 4:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

diehardlionfan wrote:
Iamcanadian wrote:
Lions017 wrote:
I think that these guys are definitely better than Matt Stafford...

Tom Brady
Aaron Rodgers
Drew Brees
Russell Wilson
Ben Roethlisberger
Philip Rivers

That's about it. Stafford is right there in the mix in the next tier, with guys like Matt Ryan, Derek Carr, Andrew Luck, and Cam Newton. You could even argue that Roethlisberger or Rivers have regressed if you want, I suppose. Top 10 seems pretty safe the more than I look at it.


I rate him top 15. IMO, there are about 15 franchise QB's currently in the NFL. I would rate him behind a healthy Luck, there with Rivers. Of course Carr, Mariota and Winston are coming quickly as well.

Until Stafford puts up a few playoff wins, he has to take a back seat to those who have. Putting him ahead of QB's who have produced playoff wins, just appears to me to be wishful thinking.


I understand your thinking about playoff wins but in my opinion to much emphasis is placed on playoff wins affecting individual rankings in a team sport.


I can agree with that. Stafford has played what should be well enough to win in our playoff games, however our D has been pathetic. I really wish Calvin were still around to give it a run this year. I think our D should be just good enough to make waves with a prolific offense, similar to the Falcons last year. I don't think our offense will be Falcons good though mainly due to the lack of a CJ type player.
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Lions017


Joined: 15 Feb 2009
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PostPosted: Thu May 04, 2017 4:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Iamcanadian wrote:
Lions017 wrote:
I think that these guys are definitely better than Matt Stafford...

Tom Brady
Aaron Rodgers
Drew Brees
Russell Wilson
Ben Roethlisberger
Philip Rivers

That's about it. Stafford is right there in the mix in the next tier, with guys like Matt Ryan, Derek Carr, Andrew Luck, and Cam Newton. You could even argue that Roethlisberger or Rivers have regressed if you want, I suppose. Top 10 seems pretty safe the more than I look at it.


I rate him top 15. IMO, there are about 15 franchise QB's currently in the NFL. I would rate him behind a healthy Luck, there with Rivers. Of course Carr, Mariota and Winston are coming quickly as well.

Until Stafford puts up a few playoff wins, he has to take a back seat to those who have. Putting him ahead of QB's who have produced playoff wins, just appears to me to be wishful thinking.


We are still on the "playoff wins" kick? I thought that it was slowly fading away and just what you see on ESPN and from Skip Bayless. Playoff wins aren't everything. Tim Tebow, Jay Cutler, Brock Osweiler, T.J. Yates, all kinds of guys have won playoff games. Mark Sanchez won a bunch of them. Joe Flacco has won 10. They shouldn't be much more than a tie-breaker for two equally skilled players.
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detroitroar


Joined: 24 Jan 2011
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PostPosted: Thu May 04, 2017 5:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

FootballPhreak wrote:
detroitroar wrote:
FootballPhreak wrote:
detroitroar wrote:
Did this dance for years and people consistently undervalue him.

List of QB's whom a legitimate amount of people in these parts argued were better than Stafford at some point:

-Mark Sanchez
- Josh Freeman
- Matt Schaub
- Jake Locker
- Ryan Tannehill
- Colin Kaepernick
- RG3
- Jay Cutler
- Nick Foles
- Kirk Cousins
- Teddy Bridgewater
- Andy Dalton
- Joe Flacco
- Alex Smith
- Blake Bortles

On, and on. Only point being Stafford never gets the respect he deserves. I think a lot of it has to do with being picked #1; a good bit has to do with the money he makes; I think most fans are turned off by Strong Armed QB's to an extent. They see that natural physical trait and hold it against him. Some of it simply has to do with people not knowing what they're watching, to be honest.

At some point, most of those had a case that they were or could be better. Are you sure they were the one with a bias?

I'll connect the dots for you; a good portion of these guys, clearly are not better than Stafford. Just because they had a better statistical season, didnt make them better, like I often argued. You notice there is a variety of ages / time frames to work with. If they were truly better, it would become more, and more evident over time; instead, the opposite has happened.

Now I guess you can argue that they regressed, Stafford progressed, they've been unlucky, Staffords been lucky, whatever.

You say you are going to connect the dots for me. Like you are some highly enlightened storehouse of NFL talent knowledge. Then you go on to completely ignore the point as if the dots are invisible. It seems to me I put the dots out there and you preferred to ignore them. But I digress. I suppose the only evidence with meaning out there is what you decide has meaning.

Your free to disagree, but the post speaks for itself. You accused me of some sort of bias, when I pointed none out. I think its for a number of reasons (I guess that had to be said again?).

You dismissed that list which is very relevant to my point. If you would take the likes of Schaub, Kaepernick, RG3, Foles, Cutler, Sanchez, Locker, Bridgewater and Sanchez over Stafford (at any point) it would be as plain as day proven you were wrong.

Dont overthink it and just get to whatever point you would like to make. Ok?
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detroitroar


Joined: 24 Jan 2011
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PostPosted: Thu May 04, 2017 5:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

diehardlionfan wrote:
Iamcanadian wrote:
Lions017 wrote:
I think that these guys are definitely better than Matt Stafford...

Tom Brady
Aaron Rodgers
Drew Brees
Russell Wilson
Ben Roethlisberger
Philip Rivers

That's about it. Stafford is right there in the mix in the next tier, with guys like Matt Ryan, Derek Carr, Andrew Luck, and Cam Newton. You could even argue that Roethlisberger or Rivers have regressed if you want, I suppose. Top 10 seems pretty safe the more than I look at it.


I rate him top 15. IMO, there are about 15 franchise QB's currently in the NFL. I would rate him behind a healthy Luck, there with Rivers. Of course Carr, Mariota and Winston are coming quickly as well.

Until Stafford puts up a few playoff wins, he has to take a back seat to those who have. Putting him ahead of QB's who have produced playoff wins, just appears to me to be wishful thinking.


I understand your thinking about playoff wins but in my opinion to much emphasis is placed on playoff wins affecting individual rankings in a team sport.

Only sport that is even somewhat fair is in Basketball. A single player CAN have that kind of an impact.

No matter what tear Rodgers wants to go on, he still needs his oline to block and guys to catch the ball. If Stafford were costing us games constantly at the end, I could see some sort of relevance; but he has done the opposite. Maybe the most clutch QB in the league. We probably win 2-4 games with an average QB last year.
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detroitroar


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PostPosted: Thu May 04, 2017 5:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

FootballPhreak wrote:
I agree mostly with others, that 8-10 range. I, personally would take Luck and Winston ahead of him. Probably not Mariota though.

Absolute fair argument for Luck, but I dont see it with Winston. Can you name one thing he does better than Stafford?
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Calvin-Stafford


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PostPosted: Thu May 04, 2017 6:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

detroitroar wrote:
FootballPhreak wrote:
I agree mostly with others, that 8-10 range. I, personally would take Luck and Winston ahead of him. Probably not Mariota though.

Absolute fair argument for Luck, but I dont see it with Winston. Can you name one thing he does better than Stafford?

I think Stafford's better than Jameis, but Jameis' ability to shrug off hits or shed tackles and make a play is almost Roethlisberger-esque. Stafford lacks that exceptional strength and balance in the pocket.
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Lions017


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PostPosted: Thu May 04, 2017 6:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Calvin-Stafford wrote:
detroitroar wrote:
FootballPhreak wrote:
I agree mostly with others, that 8-10 range. I, personally would take Luck and Winston ahead of him. Probably not Mariota though.

Absolute fair argument for Luck, but I dont see it with Winston. Can you name one thing he does better than Stafford?

I think Stafford's better than Jameis, but Jameis' ability to shrug off hits or shed tackles and make a play is almost Roethlisberger-esque. Stafford lacks that exceptional strength and balance in the pocket.


That's a good trait to have, but is it more useful than the other aspects of the game, all of which I think would lean toward Stafford? Stafford has a stronger arm, and at this point in Winston's career Stafford has demonstrated better accuracy and decision making as well.
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