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WindyCity


Joined: 26 Jun 2009
Posts: 16526
PostPosted: Mon May 01, 2017 2:41 pm    Post subject: Overall Draft Thoughts Reply with quote

2017 Draft Thoughts and Observations

Overall, I liked the Bears plan of attack, even if I do not know some of the players as well as much as I would have liked. I applaud the temerity to move up and get your QB a move that was long overdue for the Bears and once you got him everything becomes about making sure that he is successful. I know that the defense had needs and I know that it was a good defensive draft, but the Bears world is about Trubisky now.

1[2] QB Mitchell Trubisky [UNC]

The Move

I was shocked when the Bears moved up and I was shocked when they selected a QB, but after the shock wore off I was incredibly impressed that Ryan Pace moved boldly to select his QB and hopefully put an end to a crippling need that the Bears have had forever. All I can ask of my GM is that he will be bold when he has conviction on the QB and that he will get his guy in the building and developing. The NFL is a QB driven league and if you have one you are relevant and the Bears took a major step towards being relevant. The trade doesn't matter to me. Either Trubisky becomes a franchise QB or Pace is fired, it doesn't really matter if he spent the 3rd overall pick or traded for the 2nd pick. The worse thing that would have come from this is if Pace had not gotten to pick his guy and we watched him play for Cleveland instead, to me that is unforgivable. I applaud Ryan Pace for putting his job on the line. A GM should not get to limp around for 4-5 years with lousy veteran QBs talking about rebuilding. It is his job to answer the QB question and he did so loudly and boldly. Prior to the draft I had talked passionately about the need to address the QB position and that building the defense did not move the Bears towards a Championship, so I will not kill the guy who actually did that.

I will never understand those who attack the move saying we need to run the ball and play defense. The Bears have run the ball and played defense for years and never won anything. It is an outdated model that some fans seem to be stuck in. You cannot continue to push off the QB decision while playing great defense and going 8-8 and not being able to compete with elite QBs.

The Player

I like Mitch Trubisky, although I was a big fan of Deshaun Watson. I think the Bears have a QB with every physical tool you can ask for. He is athletic, he is accurate, and he can make all the throws. I like what he did at UNC in limited action. a 5:1 TD:INT ratio shows that he is able to produce while still protecting the ball, which will be a welcome change in Chicago. The fact that he can break the pocket and hurt teams with his legs is a bonus and almost a must in today's NFL. People point to a bad Sun Bowl, but outside of the 2 INTs he threw, which were bad, he led the team back and threw 4 game tying TDs, 3 of which were dropped. This was all while being assaulted by Solomon Thomas. I am not an expert on Mitch Trubisky, but Mel Kiper said if he went back to school he would probably have been the 1st pick in 2018. To me I would rather have him developing in the Bears system and with their WRs, than at UNC running the spread.

2[45] TE Adam Shaheen [Ashland]

The Move

I went into day 2 saying that the Bears had to move back and recoup some of the picks that they lost and that is exactly what they did, so that was a positive in my books. The 2nd round is where Ryan Pace has had the most success and I am more willing to give him the benefit of the doubt in this round. I was none the less shocked when they took Shaheen. I was not shocked that they took a TE or a weapon for their new QB, but I had not done a ton of work on Shaheen. I know people wanted defense and there were a number of safeties that I was interested in at this pick, but once Trubisky was drafted the entire focus of the franchise needed to be about not repeating the mistakes of the Cutler era. The Bears may have holes on defense, but they need to ensure that whenever Trubisky gets on the field that he is not looking at bad weapons and getting poor protection. Shaheen makes more sense if you look at it as if Trubisky is not really going to play until 2018. Shaheen gets a year to develop the incredible physical tools before he is needed to be a major weapon in 2018. I am not sure about the value of Shaheen at 45, but the upside is their for him to be far more impactful that a standard 2nd round pick.

The Player

I am a subscriber to the planet theory. I believe that you should prioritize guys who are physically difficult to find and to me Shaheen is a prime example of this. His combination of size and athletuic ability is not common. He can be a major mismatch weapon in the passing game and provide a massive target for a young QB. We have seen these types of parings in the past where teams take young QBs and then make sure to add big targets that can make up for mistakes and make plays for the QB, so I agree with the concept. I am sure that Pace envisions and offense with 2 TEs and running the ball and then punishing people with play action and big targets all over the field. Right now on paper the Bears will be rolling out targets in their base offense that are huge, White 6'3", Meredith 6'3", Sims 6'4", Miller 6'5", Shaheen 6'7". I cannot think of a better way to ease a young QB into playing than having guys who can get the ball. Shaheen has been described as Baby Gronk and I actually think the Bears are setting up nicely to run an offense similar to what New England runs.

4[112] S Eddie Jackson [Alabama]

The Move

After taking what many thought of as reaches in the top rounds I am glad that Pace came back and grabbed what I would consider a good "value" player in the 4th round. If healthy I think Jackson would have been a 2nd round pick, so the Bears could have a potential starter on their hands. The Bears had 2 glaring needs on defense in my world and that was S and DE. I know they could use players at different spots, but I thought that they need players at those 2 spots to come in and play serious snaps early. The 4th round in my world is someone who should come in and immediately compete. With a mini run on safeties started by Tedric Thompson I think it was prudent for Pace to move up and get one of the few DBs left that I think can play as a rookie.

The Player

If healthy Jackson may be the most talented young safety on the Bears. He has the best speed and probably the best ball skills of the group and it would not shock me if he grabbed the FS spot next to Demps. Greg Gabriel tweeted out that Jackson was the one responsible for getting the Tide defense lined up and making the audibles, so that is an added bonus for a secondary that has looked lost and confused a ton. Between Jackson and Demps the Bears should cut down the frequent mental busts in the secondary. Last seasons draft pick Deon Bush seems to be the main culprit of this so adding someone who can replace him if it continues is smart. Jackson also intercepts passes in the deep middle. His junior year when healthy he picked off 6 passes and returned 2 for TDs and last season, which was injury shortened, he picked off 1 pass and scored a TD. As a Bears fan I have forgotten what it looks like when a safety is a threat to intercept a pass and score. I love this pick and it was well worth the gamble on his health in the 4th round.

4[119] RB Tarik Cohen [NC A&T]

The Move

This is the pick that I took the most exception to. It seemed a little "boutique" for me when the team had other needs in more important areas. I get the thought process, but there seems like a lot of risk taking a Division II guy who happens to be 5'6". I understand that they want to add some speed and receiving ability, but this marks the 4th straight year that a mid round pick has been invested in the position. I felt a DLmen would have been a better use of this pick than someone who is only ever going to be a gadget player. This seems to be a luxury pick on a gimmick player that I would have less of a problem with it the Bears did not have legitimate holes in key areas and depth issues at OT and WR.

The Player

I understand the thinking behind the pick and the player has some interesting qualities, but I am not sure the Bears needed to take such a small player from such a low conference. I understand with Shaheen that despite the lower level of competition that he has unique physical tools, I do not see that with Cohen. Cohen obviously has some speed and wiggle to his game, but does that speed translate to running away from NFL defenders? His athletic numbers outside of his 4.42 [40] are pedestrian at best and those change of direction skills are what he needs to avoid NFL defenders that he cannot just run by.

5[147] OG Jordan Morgan [Kutztown]

The Move

I will never argue picking OLmen. I believe that you need to pick them every year and develop them, between injuries and ineffectiveness there are very few years where the same 5 guys will start every game. This concept is even more important when you consider that the Bears are playing 2 inexperienced players at QB. You simply cannot run a rookie QB like Trubisky out there behind sun standard protection. This isn't really rocket science, Prescott looks awesome behind a great line, Wentz looks good behind a good OL, Goff looks terrible behind a joke of an OL. The ability to consistently run the ball and protect the QB will have a huge impact on their development. This was one of the biggest mistakes of the Cutler era. The Bears ran Cutler out there behind crap lines and he became shell shocked and injured. This cannot happen again.

The Player

There are things to like about Morgan and after having a solid Senior Bowl I am sure the Bears see him as a potential long term replacement for Josh Sitton. What is there to like about Morgan? His is a well built athlete with a strong lower body and long arms [35"] for the position. He has good balance and should be able to be less exposed by moving inside and into the phone booth. Morgan can run block, although it was against lower competition. He showed at the Senior Bowl he can pass block against NFL prospects, which is a concern with lower level guys who are better athletes than the DLmen they face. I really see starting potential down the road for Morgan who has ideal physical tools for an NFL OG.
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TB 1


Joined: 16 Apr 2017
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PostPosted: Mon May 01, 2017 4:36 pm    Post subject: Re: Overall Draft Thoughts Reply with quote

WindyCity wrote:
2017 Draft Thoughts and Observations

Overall, I liked the Bears plan of attack, even if I do not know some of the players as well as much as I would have liked. I applaud the temerity to move up and get your QB a move that was long overdue for the Bears and once you got him everything becomes about making sure that he is successful. I know that the defense had needs and I know that it was a good defensive draft, but the Bears world is about Trubisky now.

1[2] QB Mitchell Trubisky [UNC]

The Move

I was shocked when the Bears moved up and I was shocked when they selected a QB, but after the shock wore off I was incredibly impressed that Ryan Pace moved boldly to select his QB and hopefully put an end to a crippling need that the Bears have had forever. All I can ask of my GM is that he will be bold when he has conviction on the QB and that he will get his guy in the building and developing. The NFL is a QB driven league and if you have one you are relevant and the Bears took a major step towards being relevant. The trade doesn't matter to me. Either Trubisky becomes a franchise QB or Pace is fired, it doesn't really matter if he spent the 3rd overall pick or traded for the 2nd pick. The worse thing that would have come from this is if Pace had not gotten to pick his guy and we watched him play for Cleveland instead, to me that is unforgivable. I applaud Ryan Pace for putting his job on the line. A GM should not get to limp around for 4-5 years with lousy veteran QBs talking about rebuilding. It is his job to answer the QB question and he did so loudly and boldly. Prior to the draft I had talked passionately about the need to address the QB position and that building the defense did not move the Bears towards a Championship, so I will not kill the guy who actually did that.

I will never understand those who attack the move saying we need to run the ball and play defense. The Bears have run the ball and played defense for years and never won anything. It is an outdated model that some fans seem to be stuck in. You cannot continue to push off the QB decision while playing great defense and going 8-8 and not being able to compete with elite QBs.

The Player

I like Mitch Trubisky, although I was a big fan of Deshaun Watson. I think the Bears have a QB with every physical tool you can ask for. He is athletic, he is accurate, and he can make all the throws. I like what he did at UNC in limited action. a 5:1 TD:INT ratio shows that he is able to produce while still protecting the ball, which will be a welcome change in Chicago. The fact that he can break the pocket and hurt teams with his legs is a bonus and almost a must in today's NFL. People point to a bad Sun Bowl, but outside of the 2 INTs he threw, which were bad, he led the team back and threw 4 game tying TDs, 3 of which were dropped. This was all while being assaulted by Solomon Thomas. I am not an expert on Mitch Trubisky, but Mel Kiper said if he went back to school he would probably have been the 1st pick in 2018. To me I would rather have him developing in the Bears system and with their WRs, than at UNC running the spread.

2[45] TE Adam Shaheen [Ashland]

The Move

I went into day 2 saying that the Bears had to move back and recoup some of the picks that they lost and that is exactly what they did, so that was a positive in my books. The 2nd round is where Ryan Pace has had the most success and I am more willing to give him the benefit of the doubt in this round. I was none the less shocked when they took Shaheen. I was not shocked that they took a TE or a weapon for their new QB, but I had not done a ton of work on Shaheen. I know people wanted defense and there were a number of safeties that I was interested in at this pick, but once Trubisky was drafted the entire focus of the franchise needed to be about not repeating the mistakes of the Cutler era. The Bears may have holes on defense, but they need to ensure that whenever Trubisky gets on the field that he is not looking at bad weapons and getting poor protection. Shaheen makes more sense if you look at it as if Trubisky is not really going to play until 2018. Shaheen gets a year to develop the incredible physical tools before he is needed to be a major weapon in 2018. I am not sure about the value of Shaheen at 45, but the upside is their for him to be far more impactful that a standard 2nd round pick.

The Player

I am a subscriber to the planet theory. I believe that you should prioritize guys who are physically difficult to find and to me Shaheen is a prime example of this. His combination of size and athletuic ability is not common. He can be a major mismatch weapon in the passing game and provide a massive target for a young QB. We have seen these types of parings in the past where teams take young QBs and then make sure to add big targets that can make up for mistakes and make plays for the QB, so I agree with the concept. I am sure that Pace envisions and offense with 2 TEs and running the ball and then punishing people with play action and big targets all over the field. Right now on paper the Bears will be rolling out targets in their base offense that are huge, White 6'3", Meredith 6'3", Sims 6'4", Miller 6'5", Shaheen 6'7". I cannot think of a better way to ease a young QB into playing than having guys who can get the ball. Shaheen has been described as Baby Gronk and I actually think the Bears are setting up nicely to run an offense similar to what New England runs.

4[112] S Eddie Jackson [Alabama]

The Move

After taking what many thought of as reaches in the top rounds I am glad that Pace came back and grabbed what I would consider a good "value" player in the 4th round. If healthy I think Jackson would have been a 2nd round pick, so the Bears could have a potential starter on their hands. The Bears had 2 glaring needs on defense in my world and that was S and DE. I know they could use players at different spots, but I thought that they need players at those 2 spots to come in and play serious snaps early. The 4th round in my world is someone who should come in and immediately compete. With a mini run on safeties started by Tedric Thompson I think it was prudent for Pace to move up and get one of the few DBs left that I think can play as a rookie.

The Player

If healthy Jackson may be the most talented young safety on the Bears. He has the best speed and probably the best ball skills of the group and it would not shock me if he grabbed the FS spot next to Demps. Greg Gabriel tweeted out that Jackson was the one responsible for getting the Tide defense lined up and making the audibles, so that is an added bonus for a secondary that has looked lost and confused a ton. Between Jackson and Demps the Bears should cut down the frequent mental busts in the secondary. Last seasons draft pick Deon Bush seems to be the main culprit of this so adding someone who can replace him if it continues is smart. Jackson also intercepts passes in the deep middle. His junior year when healthy he picked off 6 passes and returned 2 for TDs and last season, which was injury shortened, he picked off 1 pass and scored a TD. As a Bears fan I have forgotten what it looks like when a safety is a threat to intercept a pass and score. I love this pick and it was well worth the gamble on his health in the 4th round.

4[119] RB Tarik Cohen [NC A&T]

The Move

This is the pick that I took the most exception to. It seemed a little "boutique" for me when the team had other needs in more important areas. I get the thought process, but there seems like a lot of risk taking a Division II guy who happens to be 5'6". I understand that they want to add some speed and receiving ability, but this marks the 4th straight year that a mid round pick has been invested in the position. I felt a DLmen would have been a better use of this pick than someone who is only ever going to be a gadget player. This seems to be a luxury pick on a gimmick player that I would have less of a problem with it the Bears did not have legitimate holes in key areas and depth issues at OT and WR.

The Player

I understand the thinking behind the pick and the player has some interesting qualities, but I am not sure the Bears needed to take such a small player from such a low conference. I understand with Shaheen that despite the lower level of competition that he has unique physical tools, I do not see that with Cohen. Cohen obviously has some speed and wiggle to his game, but does that speed translate to running away from NFL defenders? His athletic numbers outside of his 4.42 [40] are pedestrian at best and those change of direction skills are what he needs to avoid NFL defenders that he cannot just run by.

5[147] OG Jordan Morgan [Kutztown]

The Move

I will never argue picking OLmen. I believe that you need to pick them every year and develop them, between injuries and ineffectiveness there are very few years where the same 5 guys will start every game. This concept is even more important when you consider that the Bears are playing 2 inexperienced players at QB. You simply cannot run a rookie QB like Trubisky out there behind sun standard protection. This isn't really rocket science, Prescott looks awesome behind a great line, Wentz looks good behind a good OL, Goff looks terrible behind a joke of an OL. The ability to consistently run the ball and protect the QB will have a huge impact on their development. This was one of the biggest mistakes of the Cutler era. The Bears ran Cutler out there behind crap lines and he became shell shocked and injured. This cannot happen again.

The Player

There are things to like about Morgan and after having a solid Senior Bowl I am sure the Bears see him as a potential long term replacement for Josh Sitton. What is there to like about Morgan? His is a well built athlete with a strong lower body and long arms [35"] for the position. He has good balance and should be able to be less exposed by moving inside and into the phone booth. Morgan can run block, although it was against lower competition. He showed at the Senior Bowl he can pass block against NFL prospects, which is a concern with lower level guys who are better athletes than the DLmen they face. I really see starting potential down the road for Morgan who has ideal physical tools for an NFL OG.


In the modern NFL you have to score points and still play good defense to win. The last 10 Super Bowl Champions have allowed on average about 290 points per season. So I hope in future years the Bears draft more defense than they did this year. You can't win the championship even in the modern NFL with a poor defense. See the Saints of the last 5 years as an example. I am happy the Bears took a QB. This draft is a good draft if Trubisky becomes a franchsie QB. Shaheen has a chance to be good and Jackson could be a good pick if he stays healthy. I don't think this draft is as bad as the experts say.
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G08


Joined: 28 Feb 2011
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PostPosted: Mon May 01, 2017 4:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
I am not an expert on Mitch Trubisky, but Mel Kiper said if he went back to school he would probably have been the 1st pick in 2018. To me I would rather have him developing in the Bears system and with their WRs, than at UNC running the spread.


This is me kissing you :*
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topwop1 wrote:
My point is you can find a franchise guy like [Derek] Carr in every draft


"I thought it was a stroke of genius. You give [Pace] an A++++ for the move to get Trubisky. That was magnificient." - Bill Polian
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TankWilliams


Joined: 11 Dec 2007
Posts: 17075
Location: Chicago
PostPosted: Mon May 01, 2017 4:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Directed at the guy above G08 ^^ The primary focus of the last draft was defense, so I have a feeling as players develop from the past two drafts, we will see a fairly large improvement there, even if we didnt' do much this year.

Year 1 under Pace:
2nd Round - Eddie Goldman
5th Round - Adrian Amos
Undrafted - Bryce Callahan

Year 2 under Pace:
1st Round - Leonard Floyd
3rd Round - Jon Bullard
4th Round - Deon Bush
4th Round - Deiondre Hall
4th Round - Nick Kwiatkoski
6th Round - Deandre Houston-Carson
Undrafted - Cre'von LeBlanc


From year 1 and 2, there is a legit shot at coming away with 7 starters from those two drafts on defense. I think this is why he looked offense this year, because he was extremely confident about last years rookie crop.
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ChicagoAl


Joined: 10 Jan 2008
Posts: 8436
PostPosted: Mon May 01, 2017 6:46 pm    Post subject: Re: Overall Draft Thoughts Reply with quote

[quote="WindyCity"]2017 Draft Thoughts and Observations

Overall, I liked the Bears plan of attack, even if I do not know some of the players as well as much as I would have liked. I applaud the temerity to move up and get your QB a move that was long overdue for the Bears and once you got him everything becomes about making sure that he is successful. I know that the defense had needs and I know that it was a good defensive draft, but the Bears world is about Trubisky now.

1[2] QB Mitchell Trubisky [UNC]

The Move

I was shocked when the Bears moved up and I was shocked when they selected a QB, but after the shock wore off I was incredibly impressed that Ryan Pace moved boldly to select his QB and hopefully put an end to a crippling need that the Bears have had forever. All I can ask of my GM is that he will be bold when he has conviction on the QB and that he will get his guy in the building and developing. The NFL is a QB driven league and if you have one you are relevant and the Bears took a major step towards being relevant. The trade doesn't matter to me. Either Trubisky becomes a franchise QB or Pace is fired, it doesn't really matter if he spent the 3rd overall pick or traded for the 2nd pick. The worse thing that would have come from this is if Pace had not gotten to pick his guy and we watched him play for Cleveland instead, to me that is unforgivable. I applaud Ryan Pace for putting his job on the line. A GM should not get to limp around for 4-5 years with lousy veteran QBs talking about rebuilding. It is his job to answer the QB question and he did so loudly and boldly. Prior to the draft I had talked passionately about the need to address the QB position and that building the defense did not move the Bears towards a Championship, so I will not kill the guy who actually did that.

I will never understand those who attack the move saying we need to run the ball and play defense. The Bears have run the ball and played defense for years and never won anything. It is an outdated model that some fans seem to be stuck in. You cannot continue to push off the QB decision while playing great defense and going 8-8 and not being able to compete with elite QBs.

The Player

I like Mitch Trubisky, although I was a big fan of Deshaun Watson. I think the Bears have a QB with every physical tool you can ask for. He is athletic, he is accurate, and he can make all the throws. I like what he did at UNC in limited action. a 5:1 TD:INT ratio shows that he is able to produce while still protecting the ball, which will be a welcome change in Chicago. The fact that he can break the pocket and hurt teams with his legs is a bonus and almost a must in today's NFL. People point to a bad Sun Bowl, but outside of the 2 INTs he threw, which were bad, he led the team back and threw 4 game tying TDs, 3 of which were dropped. This was all while being assaulted by Solomon Thomas. I am not an expert on Mitch Trubisky, but Mel Kiper said if he went back to school he would probably have been the 1st pick in 2018. To me I would rather have him developing in the Bears system and with their WRs, than at UNC running the spread.

2[45] TE Adam Shaheen [Ashland]

The Move

I went into day 2 saying that the Bears had to move back and recoup some of the picks that they lost and that is exactly what they did, so that was a positive in my books. The 2nd round is where Ryan Pace has had the most success and I am more willing to give him the benefit of the doubt in this round. I was none the less shocked when they took Shaheen. I was not shocked that they took a TE or a weapon for their new QB, but I had not done a ton of work on Shaheen. I know people wanted defense and there were a number of safeties that I was interested in at this pick, but once Trubisky was drafted the entire focus of the franchise needed to be about not repeating the mistakes of the Cutler era. The Bears may have holes on defense, but they need to ensure that whenever Trubisky gets on the field that he is not looking at bad weapons and getting poor protection. Shaheen makes more sense if you look at it as if Trubisky is not really going to play until 2018. Shaheen gets a year to develop the incredible physical tools before he is needed to be a major weapon in 2018. I am not sure about the value of Shaheen at 45, but the upside is their for him to be far more impactful that a standard 2nd round pick.

The Player

I am a subscriber to the planet theory. I believe that you should prioritize guys who are physically difficult to find and to me Shaheen is a prime example of this. His combination of size and athletuic ability is not common. He can be a major mismatch weapon in the passing game and provide a massive target for a young QB. We have seen these types of parings in the past where teams take young QBs and then make sure to add big targets that can make up for mistakes and make plays for the QB, so I agree with the concept. I am sure that Pace envisions and offense with 2 TEs and running the ball and then punishing people with play action and big targets all over the field. Right now on paper the Bears will be rolling out targets in their base offense that are huge, White 6'3", Meredith 6'3", Sims 6'4", Miller 6'5", Shaheen 6'7". I cannot think of a better way to ease a young QB into playing than having guys who can get the ball. Shaheen has been described as Baby Gronk and I actually think the Bears are setting up nicely to run an offense similar to what New England runs.

4[112] S Eddie Jackson [Alabama]

The Move

After taking what many thought of as reaches in the top rounds I am glad that Pace came back and grabbed what I would consider a good "value" player in the 4th round. If healthy I think Jackson would have been a 2nd round pick, so the Bears could have a potential starter on their hands. The Bears had 2 glaring needs on defense in my world and that was S and DE. I know they could use players at different spots, but I thought that they need players at those 2 spots to come in and play serious snaps early. The 4th round in my world is someone who should come in and immediately compete. With a mini run on safeties started by Tedric Thompson I think it was prudent for Pace to move up and get one of the few DBs left that I think can play as a rookie.

The Player

If healthy Jackson may be the most talented young safety on the Bears. He has the best speed and probably the best ball skills of the group and it would not shock me if he grabbed the FS spot next to Demps. Greg Gabriel tweeted out that Jackson was the one responsible for getting the Tide defense lined up and making the audibles, so that is an added bonus for a secondary that has looked lost and confused a ton. Between Jackson and Demps the Bears should cut down the frequent mental busts in the secondary. Last seasons draft pick Deon Bush seems to be the main culprit of this so adding someone who can replace him if it continues is smart. Jackson also intercepts passes in the deep middle. His junior year when healthy he picked off 6 passes and returned 2 for TDs and last season, which was injury shortened, he picked off 1 pass and scored a TD. As a Bears fan I have forgotten what it looks like when a safety is a threat to intercept a pass and score. I love this pick and it was well worth the gamble on his health in the 4th round.

4[119] RB Tarik Cohen [NC A&T]

The Move

This is the pick that I took the most exception to. It seemed a little "boutique" for me when the team had other needs in more important areas. I get the thought process, but there seems like a lot of risk taking a Division II guy who happens to be 5'6". I understand that they want to add some speed and receiving ability, but this marks the 4th straight year that a mid round pick has been invested in the position. I felt a DLmen would have been a better use of this pick than someone who is only ever going to be a gadget player. This seems to be a luxury pick on a gimmick player that I would have less of a problem with it the Bears did not have legitimate holes in key areas and depth issues at OT and WR.

The Player

I understand the thinking behind the pick and the player has some interesting qualities, but I am not sure the Bears needed to take such a small player from such a low conference. I understand with Shaheen that despite the lower level of competition that he has unique physical tools, I do not see that with Cohen. Cohen obviously has some speed and wiggle to his game, but does that speed translate to running away from NFL defenders? His athletic numbers outside of his 4.42 [40] are pedestrian at best and those change of direction skills are what he needs to avoid NFL defenders that he cannot just run by.

5[147] OG Jordan Morgan [Kutztown]

The Move

I will never argue picking OLmen. I believe that you need to pick them every year and develop them, between injuries and ineffectiveness there are very few years where the same 5 guys will start every game. This concept is even more important when you consider that the Bears are playing 2 inexperienced players at QB. You simply cannot run a rookie QB like Trubisky out there behind sun standard protection. This isn't really rocket science, Prescott looks awesome behind a great line, Wentz looks good behind a good OL, Goff looks terrible behind a joke of an OL. The ability to consistently run the ball and protect the QB will have a huge impact on their development. This was one of the biggest mistakes of the Cutler era. The Bears ran Cutler out there behind crap lines and he became shell shocked and injured. This cannot happen again.

The Player

There are things to like about Morgan and after having a solid Senior Bowl I am sure the Bears see him as a potential long term replacement for Josh Sitton. What is there to like about Morgan? His is a well built athlete with a strong lower body and long arms [35"] for the position. He has good balance and should be able to be less exposed by moving inside and into the phone booth. Morgan can run block, although it was against lower competition. He showed at the Senior Bowl he can pass block against NFL prospects, which is a concern with lower level guys who are better athletes than the DLmen they face. I really see starting potential down the road for Morgan who has ideal physical tools for an NFL OG.[/If next year is the qb year then spending these resources is not a good idea. No help from this years picks, three projects. Don't expect the G to play much. Don't have a problem with Cohen, I can always hope he is another Dennis Gentry but I think they drafted him as a returner which we could use. Certainly there is no plan to use him much running out of the backfield.

If this team is as bad as expected, as bad as last year, neither Pace nor Fox will be around to see these prospects play much.
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Bowler1215


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PostPosted: Mon May 01, 2017 6:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I thought our draft was disappointing. 3 small school players. Nothing against small school players, some of those guys can play. But as I said in another thread, that seemed Angeloish to me.

Mitchell Trubisky-Pace is going to ride or die with this guy. If he plays well, the trade is worth it. If he's a bust, Pace will be gone. I'm hoping he plays well for us for a decade.

Adam Shaheen-You draft a QB you get him an offensive piece, whether it be protection or a weapon. Hopefully he plays at a high level

Eddie Jackson-our only defensive player at a position of great need. I wont be surprised if this guy starts week 1

Tarik Cohen-We didnt need a RB, unless Carey and/or Langford are on the trading block. He's been compared to Darren Sproles, I hope he contributes like him.

Jordan Morgan-again, we didnt need a guard. The interior of our o-line is among the best(if not the best) Unless you guys are right, and this pick was made in case of injuries to Long or Sitton(which we dont want to have happen) This pick made me wonder what Pace was doing on draft day.

These guys could all be pro bowlers for all we know. Giving the draft a grade right after the draft is judging a book by its cover. It would have been good to draft a WR, CB and a pass rusher. But it is what it is. In 3 years, these guys could all be good or all off the team. Only time will tell.
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bearsfan323


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PostPosted: Mon May 01, 2017 7:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bowler1215 wrote:
I thought our draft was disappointing. 3 small school players. Nothing against small school players, some of those guys can play. But as I said in another thread, that seemed Angeloish to me.

Mitchell Trubisky-Pace is going to ride or die with this guy. If he plays well, the trade is worth it. If he's a bust, Pace will be gone. I'm hoping he plays well for us for a decade.

Adam Shaheen-You draft a QB you get him an offensive piece, whether it be protection or a weapon. Hopefully he plays at a high level

Eddie Jackson-our only defensive player at a position of great need. I wont be surprised if this guy starts week 1

Tarik Cohen-We didnt need a RB, unless Carey and/or Langford are on the trading block. He's been compared to Darren Sproles, I hope he contributes like him.

Jordan Morgan-again, we didnt need a guard. The interior of our o-line is among the best(if not the best) Unless you guys are right, and this pick was made in case of injuries to Long or Sitton(which we dont want to have happen) This pick made me wonder what Pace was doing on draft day.

These guys could all be pro bowlers for all we know. Giving the draft a grade right after the draft is judging a book by its cover. It would have been good to draft a WR, CB and a pass rusher. But it is what it is. In 3 years, these guys could all be good or all off the team. Only time will tell.

Langford and Carey are underwhelming & Cunningham is a journeyman. As for the OG's, Long is consistently hurt and Sitton is up there in age. I actually don't mind picking a guard. I am with you on the RB though as I wish they would have found another DB, although with all or their additions this offseason in the secondary, I suppose I understand that one too

TB 1 wrote:
WindyCity wrote:
2017 Draft Thoughts and Observations

Overall, I liked the Bears plan of attack, even if I do not know some of the players as well as much as I would have liked. I applaud the temerity to move up and get your QB a move that was long overdue for the Bears and once you got him everything becomes about making sure that he is successful. I know that the defense had needs and I know that it was a good defensive draft, but the Bears world is about Trubisky now.

1[2] QB Mitchell Trubisky [UNC]

The Move

I was shocked when the Bears moved up and I was shocked when they selected a QB, but after the shock wore off I was incredibly impressed that Ryan Pace moved boldly to select his QB and hopefully put an end to a crippling need that the Bears have had forever. All I can ask of my GM is that he will be bold when he has conviction on the QB and that he will get his guy in the building and developing. The NFL is a QB driven league and if you have one you are relevant and the Bears took a major step towards being relevant. The trade doesn't matter to me. Either Trubisky becomes a franchise QB or Pace is fired, it doesn't really matter if he spent the 3rd overall pick or traded for the 2nd pick. The worse thing that would have come from this is if Pace had not gotten to pick his guy and we watched him play for Cleveland instead, to me that is unforgivable. I applaud Ryan Pace for putting his job on the line. A GM should not get to limp around for 4-5 years with lousy veteran QBs talking about rebuilding. It is his job to answer the QB question and he did so loudly and boldly. Prior to the draft I had talked passionately about the need to address the QB position and that building the defense did not move the Bears towards a Championship, so I will not kill the guy who actually did that.

I will never understand those who attack the move saying we need to run the ball and play defense. The Bears have run the ball and played defense for years and never won anything. It is an outdated model that some fans seem to be stuck in. You cannot continue to push off the QB decision while playing great defense and going 8-8 and not being able to compete with elite QBs.

The Player

I like Mitch Trubisky, although I was a big fan of Deshaun Watson. I think the Bears have a QB with every physical tool you can ask for. He is athletic, he is accurate, and he can make all the throws. I like what he did at UNC in limited action. a 5:1 TD:INT ratio shows that he is able to produce while still protecting the ball, which will be a welcome change in Chicago. The fact that he can break the pocket and hurt teams with his legs is a bonus and almost a must in today's NFL. People point to a bad Sun Bowl, but outside of the 2 INTs he threw, which were bad, he led the team back and threw 4 game tying TDs, 3 of which were dropped. This was all while being assaulted by Solomon Thomas. I am not an expert on Mitch Trubisky, but Mel Kiper said if he went back to school he would probably have been the 1st pick in 2018. To me I would rather have him developing in the Bears system and with their WRs, than at UNC running the spread.

2[45] TE Adam Shaheen [Ashland]

The Move

I went into day 2 saying that the Bears had to move back and recoup some of the picks that they lost and that is exactly what they did, so that was a positive in my books. The 2nd round is where Ryan Pace has had the most success and I am more willing to give him the benefit of the doubt in this round. I was none the less shocked when they took Shaheen. I was not shocked that they took a TE or a weapon for their new QB, but I had not done a ton of work on Shaheen. I know people wanted defense and there were a number of safeties that I was interested in at this pick, but once Trubisky was drafted the entire focus of the franchise needed to be about not repeating the mistakes of the Cutler era. The Bears may have holes on defense, but they need to ensure that whenever Trubisky gets on the field that he is not looking at bad weapons and getting poor protection. Shaheen makes more sense if you look at it as if Trubisky is not really going to play until 2018. Shaheen gets a year to develop the incredible physical tools before he is needed to be a major weapon in 2018. I am not sure about the value of Shaheen at 45, but the upside is their for him to be far more impactful that a standard 2nd round pick.

The Player

I am a subscriber to the planet theory. I believe that you should prioritize guys who are physically difficult to find and to me Shaheen is a prime example of this. His combination of size and athletuic ability is not common. He can be a major mismatch weapon in the passing game and provide a massive target for a young QB. We have seen these types of parings in the past where teams take young QBs and then make sure to add big targets that can make up for mistakes and make plays for the QB, so I agree with the concept. I am sure that Pace envisions and offense with 2 TEs and running the ball and then punishing people with play action and big targets all over the field. Right now on paper the Bears will be rolling out targets in their base offense that are huge, White 6'3", Meredith 6'3", Sims 6'4", Miller 6'5", Shaheen 6'7". I cannot think of a better way to ease a young QB into playing than having guys who can get the ball. Shaheen has been described as Baby Gronk and I actually think the Bears are setting up nicely to run an offense similar to what New England runs.

4[112] S Eddie Jackson [Alabama]

The Move

After taking what many thought of as reaches in the top rounds I am glad that Pace came back and grabbed what I would consider a good "value" player in the 4th round. If healthy I think Jackson would have been a 2nd round pick, so the Bears could have a potential starter on their hands. The Bears had 2 glaring needs on defense in my world and that was S and DE. I know they could use players at different spots, but I thought that they need players at those 2 spots to come in and play serious snaps early. The 4th round in my world is someone who should come in and immediately compete. With a mini run on safeties started by Tedric Thompson I think it was prudent for Pace to move up and get one of the few DBs left that I think can play as a rookie.

The Player

If healthy Jackson may be the most talented young safety on the Bears. He has the best speed and probably the best ball skills of the group and it would not shock me if he grabbed the FS spot next to Demps. Greg Gabriel tweeted out that Jackson was the one responsible for getting the Tide defense lined up and making the audibles, so that is an added bonus for a secondary that has looked lost and confused a ton. Between Jackson and Demps the Bears should cut down the frequent mental busts in the secondary. Last seasons draft pick Deon Bush seems to be the main culprit of this so adding someone who can replace him if it continues is smart. Jackson also intercepts passes in the deep middle. His junior year when healthy he picked off 6 passes and returned 2 for TDs and last season, which was injury shortened, he picked off 1 pass and scored a TD. As a Bears fan I have forgotten what it looks like when a safety is a threat to intercept a pass and score. I love this pick and it was well worth the gamble on his health in the 4th round.

4[119] RB Tarik Cohen [NC A&T]

The Move

This is the pick that I took the most exception to. It seemed a little "boutique" for me when the team had other needs in more important areas. I get the thought process, but there seems like a lot of risk taking a Division II guy who happens to be 5'6". I understand that they want to add some speed and receiving ability, but this marks the 4th straight year that a mid round pick has been invested in the position. I felt a DLmen would have been a better use of this pick than someone who is only ever going to be a gadget player. This seems to be a luxury pick on a gimmick player that I would have less of a problem with it the Bears did not have legitimate holes in key areas and depth issues at OT and WR.

The Player

I understand the thinking behind the pick and the player has some interesting qualities, but I am not sure the Bears needed to take such a small player from such a low conference. I understand with Shaheen that despite the lower level of competition that he has unique physical tools, I do not see that with Cohen. Cohen obviously has some speed and wiggle to his game, but does that speed translate to running away from NFL defenders? His athletic numbers outside of his 4.42 [40] are pedestrian at best and those change of direction skills are what he needs to avoid NFL defenders that he cannot just run by.

5[147] OG Jordan Morgan [Kutztown]

The Move

I will never argue picking OLmen. I believe that you need to pick them every year and develop them, between injuries and ineffectiveness there are very few years where the same 5 guys will start every game. This concept is even more important when you consider that the Bears are playing 2 inexperienced players at QB. You simply cannot run a rookie QB like Trubisky out there behind sun standard protection. This isn't really rocket science, Prescott looks awesome behind a great line, Wentz looks good behind a good OL, Goff looks terrible behind a joke of an OL. The ability to consistently run the ball and protect the QB will have a huge impact on their development. This was one of the biggest mistakes of the Cutler era. The Bears ran Cutler out there behind crap lines and he became shell shocked and injured. This cannot happen again.

The Player

There are things to like about Morgan and after having a solid Senior Bowl I am sure the Bears see him as a potential long term replacement for Josh Sitton. What is there to like about Morgan? His is a well built athlete with a strong lower body and long arms [35"] for the position. He has good balance and should be able to be less exposed by moving inside and into the phone booth. Morgan can run block, although it was against lower competition. He showed at the Senior Bowl he can pass block against NFL prospects, which is a concern with lower level guys who are better athletes than the DLmen they face. I really see starting potential down the road for Morgan who has ideal physical tools for an NFL OG.


In the modern NFL you have to score points and still play good defense to win. The last 10 Super Bowl Champions have allowed on average about 290 points per season. So I hope in future years the Bears draft more defense than they did this year. You can't win the championship even in the modern NFL with a poor defense. See the Saints of the last 5 years as an example. I am happy the Bears took a QB. This draft is a good draft if Trubisky becomes a franchsie QB. Shaheen has a chance to be good and Jackson could be a good pick if he stays healthy. I don't think this draft is as bad as the experts say.

Generally you're right but I will say that GB's and NO's last titles featured teams with poor defenses, IIRC
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Rogerthat


Joined: 07 Jan 2017
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PostPosted: Mon May 01, 2017 8:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

my thoughts : bears added maybe one starter. Fox is fire by mid season pace survives after a 4-12 season. Pace hire Jim Bob Cooter to coach trubisky Bears pick 1 or 2 overall in 2018. Pace trades with Cleveland get multiple first rounders for Darnold or Rosin.
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bearsfan323


Joined: 02 Apr 2014
Posts: 2706
PostPosted: Mon May 01, 2017 9:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rogerthat wrote:
my thoughts : bears added maybe one starter. Fox is fire by mid season pace survives after a 4-12 season. Pace hire Jim Bob Cooter to coach trubisky Bears pick 1 or 2 overall in 2018. Pace trades with Cleveland get multiple first rounders for Darnold or Rosin.

Roger that
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TankWilliams


Joined: 11 Dec 2007
Posts: 17075
Location: Chicago
PostPosted: Mon May 01, 2017 9:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rogerthat wrote:
my thoughts : bears added maybe one starter. Fox is fire by mid season pace survives after a 4-12 season. Pace hire Jim Bob Cooter to coach trubisky Bears pick 1 or 2 overall in 2018. Pace trades with Cleveland get multiple first rounders for Darnold or Rosin.


I'm willing to bet Hue Jackson sticks with Kizer for a year or two before giving up on him. I could see a team like NYJ moving up, though.
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bearsfan323


Joined: 02 Apr 2014
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PostPosted: Mon May 01, 2017 9:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

TankWilliams wrote:
Rogerthat wrote:
my thoughts : bears added maybe one starter. Fox is fire by mid season pace survives after a 4-12 season. Pace hire Jim Bob Cooter to coach trubisky Bears pick 1 or 2 overall in 2018. Pace trades with Cleveland get multiple first rounders for Darnold or Rosin.


I'm willing to bet Hue Jackson sticks with Kizer for a year or two before giving up on him. I could see a team like NYJ moving up, though.

LAC or SF, too
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Rogerthat


Joined: 07 Jan 2017
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PostPosted: Mon May 01, 2017 9:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

One narrative from the draft I reject is trubisky has to be a top 5 QB for him to be judged a success.

Trubisky needs to be a solid 10 year starter in the Philip rivers class of QB. He doesn't have to be Payton Brady Rodgers for this pick to considered good. The pressure and expection on this kid I worry will bust him.
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bears2308


Joined: 20 Feb 2008
Posts: 2469
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PostPosted: Mon May 01, 2017 11:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rogerthat wrote:
One narrative from the draft I reject is trubisky has to be a top 5 QB for him to be judged a success.

Trubisky needs to be a solid 10 year starter in the Philip rivers class of QB. He doesn't have to be Payton Brady Rodgers for this pick to considered good. The pressure and expection on this kid I worry will bust him.


During his junior year he played 2 snaps for 2 touchdowns. Filling in for Goodwin in the red-zone has to bring a little pressure, right? Your logic is pretty far out there. Pressure and expectation for a high first rounder makes you bust? WHAT?!
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Chewtoy


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PostPosted: Tue May 02, 2017 7:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

My thoughts:

1.) This is the right way to build a team. I don't mean that Pace picked the right players (he may or may not have, we will see). I do mean that he is assembling the pieces in the right order.

The single most important position in all of sports is the NFL Qb. No other position consistently defines the success and failures of a team like the Qb does. No other position defines the strengths and limitations of a team like the Qb does. And no other position is as hard to acquire as a Qb is. And finally, no other position in the NFL has the learning curve and career expectancy of the NFL Qb (mostly due to measures put in place to protect them - see this link for data: https://www.statista.com/statistics/240102/average-player-career-length-in-the-national-football-league/ )

What that means (in corresponding order from above) is that you won't win without a Qb, until you have a Qb you don't REALLY know what types of players to build around the Qb to play to their strengths and hide their weaknesses, you almost have to overpay for a Qb when the team is bad and has other gaping holes, and the Qb SHOULD be the first position acquired in a rebuild in order to make sure all the pieces are fully mature at the same time.

That last point is somewhat key: IF Trubisky is the right pick, he will really be good starting in ~2-3 years, peaking in ~8-10 years (NFL Qb's have been shown to peak ~30ish), and maintaining competitiveness for 5-7 years after that. Which means the Bear's championship window OPENS in 2-3 years. That means our focus NOW should be on making sure we do everything we can to make sure Trubisky is the right pick. He needs protection (OL, TE's), he needs safety valves (TE, pass catching Rbs), he needs Targets (Wr's).... He needs to immediately get help so that he isn't forced to try to succeed without help.

Now, EVENTUALLY he will need a defense to win. But the idea behind drafting a Qb is not that you will immediately improve and compete. The rams drafted a Qb #1 overall and were still a top 10 pick this year. The Buccaneers got Winston and were still picking 11 the next year. The Titans got Marriota and still picked #8 the next year. This is not Chicago's last opportunity to draft a top DE. The bears have a few years to build a defense - remember they need that defense to start peaking in 3-5 years. Having a top tier Defense that tails off just as Trubisky matures into a real threat would be unfortunate. Timing matters.

TL;DR - The strategy was right. Get the Qb first. Focus on weapons and protection that will help that Qb succeed.

2.) The number of upside picks were a bit staggering to me. It felt a bit like a fantasy draft where one of my friends got a hold of a "sleeper" magazine and went for ALL sleepers instead of focusing on the easy doubles before swinging for home runs. The DII guys in the mid rounds of a deep draft COULD be genius. I feel like it is more likely that they will eventually be viewed as mistakes. I understand Pace wanted to be great, not good. But I feel like part of being great is knowing when to take a double, and not just swinging for the fence.

3.) I'm happy Chicago has a bonified nfl qb prospect, really for the first time since I've been a fan (~1989). The only first round Qb's we've drafted in my lifetime were Jim McMahon (#5), Jim Harbaugh (#26), Cade McNown (#12), Rex Grossman (#22), and now Mitch Trubisky (#2).

I'm not thrilled that Trubisky is the guy. One of the biggest predictors of NFL success is college games started, and 13 games is awful by that standard. The measurables are all there and he seems talented, but I worry there is some "flash in the pan" potential here. I liked Watson, but honestly all these Qb's made me nervous.

That said, I'm no scout.

I will say this: Based on the history of first round Qb busts and the success rate of the top Qb's taken in a given draft when that player is taken between picks 2-10, there is probably a 33-50% chance we have a true franchise Qb on the team. Only about half the league has a franchise Qb and you have no real shot at a superbowl championship without one. With one you probably have a 1/16 chance to win it all in a given year.

In other words, that pick elevated the odds that Chicago wins a championship in the 2020's from 0% to somewhere in the 17-25% range (assuming 10 chances at 6% with a 50-66% bust rate). That is 17-25% better than we had a week ago.

Sure, you can pick the guy apart, but guys take a breath here. That weird, unfamiliar, moderately uncomfortable feeling you have right now? That is what hope feels like. You've just forgotten because its been 30 years.....
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shruj


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PostPosted: Tue May 02, 2017 8:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm torn on this draft class. On one hand, I see why they picked Trubisky 2nd, though a big part of me thinks he was going to be available anyways at 3. Hopefully he pans out, I liked him throughout the draft process - he is accurate, good arm strength, and mobile. But he does scream Sanchez to me too when he was picked by the Jets.

In a draft widely regarded for its defensive depth, we picked 1 defensive player. And we didn't add any depth to the D-line or snag a corner. Eddie Jackson is a good pick but can he be healthy?
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