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Magnus-Viktor


Joined: 28 Apr 2016
Posts: 245
PostPosted: Thu Jun 01, 2017 12:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think the top 5 are pretty easy:

Brown - stud
Bryant - stud if available
Rogers - most proven guy on roster behind Brown & Bryant
JuJu - 2nd round rookie
Coates - young 3rd rounder who has shown ability to get open even if he has bad bands

So if you keep 6, then it is between a host of other guys. Personally, I look at the TYPE of guys I kept in the top 5. What you have there, are 2 guys with the skillset of Hunter, but neither are reliable (one because of suspensions, the other because of hands), so I think I'd keep Hunter. Ben likes to go deep to stretch the D, and you need that aspect from someone on your WR corp. They picked up Hunter for a reason. That's why. I keep him at my 6th.
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FourThreeMafia


Joined: 28 Sep 2006
Posts: 63655
Location: East of Sixburgh
PostPosted: Thu Jun 01, 2017 1:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It kind of fascinates me that Bryant is considered a potential superstar by many Steeler fans who at the same time think Coates should be cut because he has bad hands....despite the fact that, before his injury in 2016, Coates was leading the league in yards per catch and had a similar or maybe even better catch % than Bryant did in 2015.

Bryant does have higher upside, but Coates (prior to his injury) showed many of the same skills and shortcomings as Bryant, but for some reason, Steeler fans drool over having Bryant but want Coates gone. Doesnt make alot of sense.
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Dcash4


Joined: 21 Apr 2008
Posts: 1486
PostPosted: Thu Jun 01, 2017 2:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

FourThreeMafia wrote:
It kind of fascinates me that Bryant is considered a potential superstar by many Steeler fans who at the same time think Coates should be cut because he has bad hands....despite the fact that, before his injury in 2016, Coates was leading the league in yards per catch and had a similar or maybe even better catch % than Bryant did in 2015.

Bryant does have higher upside, but Coates (prior to his injury) showed many of the same skills and shortcomings as Bryant, but for some reason, Steeler fans drool over having Bryant but want Coates gone. Doesnt make alot of sense.


This times a kabillion.

I just want to know what the narrative would be had Coates not played after breaking his hand last year. Because up until and including that game - he was exactly what we expected Bryant to be in the offense.

Just the mindset that people are so against Sammie and so for Bryant is mind boggling to me. O do believe Bryant IS the better overall player (better athlete, probably faster, more rounded game) but what Coates can do in the one part of the game that we need from him, the deep threat, is just as good if not for a terrible injury.

Averaging out to full season for Coates last year and Bryant the year before:

Player A: 60 catches, 1,347 yards, 60% catch rate
Player B: 72 catches, 1,112 yards, 54% catch rate

That's not some be all end all of stats, but it does show the similarities of the two. In 2015 Bryant had 6 games (out of 11) that he posted a sub 50% catch rate. He is not some sort of godsend super star and what Coates was offering is absolutely right in line with that we were getting with Bryant.

Long story short - they are both exactly what this offense needs. A deep threat who takes the top off by themselves. We struggled without Coates and Green in games last year because Cobi, Rogers, and James just are not theats to stretch the field. Thats why I think Hunter was brought in. They saw how much we struggled without a deep threat and needed insurance in case Bryant was not here. Its a huge part of what we want to do.

Coates is also a tremendous special teamer. Combine that with his abilities so sub for Bryant, be on the field together with him, or just be a better, non druggie future, helps him solidify himself on this team.
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JLambert58


Joined: 30 Jan 2013
Posts: 2031
Location: Denver, CO
PostPosted: Thu Jun 01, 2017 4:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Coates and Bryant can be easily compared. In my mind (not sure the evidence backs this up) but it seems as though Bryant is just more of a clutch player. He seemed to make more splash plays at the right times.

Coates blew an opportunity in the AFC Championship last year (among others) that could have put the team in a good position by giving it a big boost of momentum. Yes, he was hurt, but that is the kind of play we need the WRs to make when the chips are down. I know it's not really fair to judge when Coates has only started half a dozen games in his career but that's what it seems like so far.

Hope Coates and Bryant both regain their previous form or at least one of them with the solid depth chart at WR.
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warfelg


Joined: 12 Jan 2014
Posts: 3564
Location: Richmond Va
PostPosted: Thu Jun 01, 2017 7:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

FourThreeMafia wrote:
warfelg....First off, cant see your post for some reason (until I quoted it, at least). EDIT....I think it has something to do with that twitter post you quoted.....because when I quoted you, I couldnt see my post either, but works now after deleting it.

Secondly, not sure what youre saying. If he cant catch NEXT year, he cant catch....regardless of the reason.

Ive defended Coates many times, and I think people have been way too unfair with him....but if that finger ends up affecting his ability to catch going forward, he needs to go. He already had drop issues BEFORE hurting that finger.


What I'm trying to say is if people are basing what Coates is off his 2016 performance don't realize what a broken finger that looks like that can effect you.
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jebrick wrote:
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Jarvis Jones signs with Steelers


Hahahahaha.

Jones' only chance is to go to Tenn. Otherwise he is flipping burgers this fall.
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FourThreeMafia


Joined: 28 Sep 2006
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Location: East of Sixburgh
PostPosted: Fri Jun 02, 2017 1:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

JLambert58 wrote:
Coates and Bryant can be easily compared. In my mind (not sure the evidence backs this up) but it seems as though Bryant is just more of a clutch player. He seemed to make more splash plays at the right times.


Kind of an unfair assessment, considering Coates hardly played as a rookie and last year was his first year getting real playing time, and got hurt midway though the season.

But lets just say for this arguments sake that Bryant is more clutch than Coates. It still wouldnt make sense why some Steeler fans want Coates cut and are so much higher on Bryant. I have no issue with people viewing Bryant as being better (because he is)....but wanting Coates cut?

It feels like people disregard a) what he did before his injury and b) the fact that he was injured at all. Even with his drop issues, no one in their right mind should want him cut based on the ability he showed early last year as a deep threat. After he got hurt, it seems like our offense slowed down.
Quote:

Coates blew an opportunity in the AFC Championship last year (among others) that could have put the team in a good position by giving it a big boost of momentum. Yes, he was hurt, but that is the kind of play we need the WRs to make when the chips are down. I know it's not really fair to judge when Coates has only started half a dozen games in his career but that's what it seems like so far.


This is what I mean in regards to disregarding that he was hurt....unless of course you think its easy catching a ball with a mangled hand (broken finger and stitches in his hand IIRC). Confused
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jebrick


Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 10187
Location: Indianapolis
PostPosted: Fri Jun 02, 2017 9:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think we have 4 that are a lock to make the team

Antonio Brown
Martavis Bryant
JuJu Smith-Schuster
Eli Rogers


and the rest fight for 2 spots.
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warfelg


Joined: 12 Jan 2014
Posts: 3564
Location: Richmond Va
PostPosted: Fri Jun 02, 2017 9:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

FourThreeMafia wrote:
This is what I mean in regards to disregarding that he was hurt....unless of course you think its easy catching a ball with a mangled hand (broken finger and stitches in his hand IIRC). Confused


IIRC I think it was two different hands. The broken finger being the right hand, the stitches for torn webbing in the right hand.
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jebrick wrote:
Quote:
Jarvis Jones signs with Steelers


Hahahahaha.

Jones' only chance is to go to Tenn. Otherwise he is flipping burgers this fall.
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Dcash4


Joined: 21 Apr 2008
Posts: 1486
PostPosted: Fri Jun 02, 2017 11:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

jebrick wrote:
a lock to make the team

Eli Rogers


I dont know that this one is true. I think Rogers is in the group battling for a spot.

He has a lot of things working against him as far as gaining a roster spot with a team that has really good depth and top end talent.

- He is slot only
- He is not dynamic
- Offered very little hope of unseating Brown as PR
- The guy they just drafted in the 2nd round, is starting his reps in the slot
- Issue with tardiness last year that had him benched for the Pats. Strange coming from a UDFA guy, how much does he really want it?

Brown can take snaps in the slot, Ayers could be slot and return man, Coates took snaps in the slot his rookie year in the playoffs, JuJu is practicing there right now. That's a lot of people who can do his job, but there are not many other jobs he can do himself.

He is my offensive version of Willie Gay right now. IF you are a limited action or a backup player and you only play a specific position with no special teams abilities...what good are you for a 53 man roster? If they think JuJu ultimately takes over Rogers slot snaps...are you willing to lose an Ayers or a DHB who could possibly help on special teams too and is a better fit as a backup player?

I think Rogers has the leg up right now, but IMO he needs to bring it at camp and win the position - not just get by.
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jebrick


Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 10187
Location: Indianapolis
PostPosted: Fri Jun 02, 2017 1:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rogers has proven ability to start. He runs better routes than Coates, Hamilton, Hunter DHB and so far Ayers. Coates, Schuster, Hunter Hamilton, DHB can not hold his jock when it comes to lateral quickness.

Brown was only a slot receiver 6 years ago as well.

Personally, I think Schuster will be a disappointment. He is not quick or decisive in his routes which means he gets no separation. Luck for him he is good at catching balls in traffic but the NFL is a nothing level in talent for him. Hopefully, Charles Mann teaching him to run better routes.
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CKSteeler


Joined: 17 Mar 2013
Posts: 10339
PostPosted: Fri Jun 02, 2017 5:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bryant has iffy hands and he's a headcase. Not just in terms of his drug use. There's a reason Roethlisberger felt the need to call him out before the playoffs two years back and it's because there were weeks at a time where he didn't show up and looked listless on the field. The Seattle game being a prime example. If he had his head on right for that game, the Steelers win it.

If Bryant comes back completely committed to football (a big if), he's a far better player than I see Coates being. And I'm not that down on Coates. I don't want to see either guy cut.
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JLambert58


Joined: 30 Jan 2013
Posts: 2031
Location: Denver, CO
PostPosted: Fri Jun 02, 2017 10:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

FourThreeMafia wrote:
JLambert58 wrote:
Coates and Bryant can be easily compared. In my mind (not sure the evidence backs this up) but it seems as though Bryant is just more of a clutch player. He seemed to make more splash plays at the right times.


Kind of an unfair assessment, considering Coates hardly played as a rookie and last year was his first year getting real playing time, and got hurt midway though the season.

Agree. That's why I said not fair to judge based on half a dozen starts. He did show what he could do when healthy, and for that I was impressed with him.

But lets just say for this arguments sake that Bryant is more clutch than Coates. It still wouldnt make sense why some Steeler fans want Coates cut and are so much higher on Bryant. I have no issue with people viewing Bryant as being better (because he is)....but wanting Coates cut?

I think Steelers fans (myself included) have a selective memory of Bryant. We remember all the reasons why he was such a steal in the 4th round and forget all the reasons why he fell that far. I think if the braintrust had just IR'd Coates after he got his fingers mangled, everyone would be a lot more forgiving. But the fact that he continued to dress and play on ST but contribute nothing at WR has a lot of fans unfairly condemning him. As I've said before, no way he should have been playing at all with that injury.


It feels like people disregard a) what he did before his injury and b) the fact that he was injured at all. Even with his drop issues, no one in their right mind should want him cut based on the ability he showed early last year as a deep threat. After he got hurt, it seems like our offense slowed down.


The fanbase has a short memory. Coates became a scapegoat and the poster boy for the fact that the WR position became such a dumpster fire.


JLambert58 wrote:
Coates blew an opportunity in the AFC Championship last year (among others) that could have put the team in a good position by giving it a big boost of momentum. Yes, he was hurt, but that is the kind of play we need the WRs to make when the chips are down. I know it's not really fair to judge when Coates has only started half a dozen games in his career but that's what it seems like so far.


This is what I mean in regards to disregarding that he was hurt....unless of course you think its easy catching a ball with a mangled hand (broken finger and stitches in his hand IIRC).

No, I'm sure it wasn't easy to catch with hands like that. They looked god-awful. It is really shocking that the coaching staff would have that little foresight to not exacerbate the damage of a WR's hand any further after injury.

My concern going forward is: Can he regain the full use of his hands? Did last year have a bad effect on him mentally? If he can get healthy and get his swag back then there is no reason he shouldn't be on the team.





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warfelg


Joined: 12 Jan 2014
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 03, 2017 8:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

My personal opinion is that fans hold Eli Rogers in too high of regards and are too down on Coates.
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jebrick wrote:
Quote:
Jarvis Jones signs with Steelers


Hahahahaha.

Jones' only chance is to go to Tenn. Otherwise he is flipping burgers this fall.
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Ghengis Graz


Joined: 16 Mar 2007
Posts: 2086
Location: Gettysburg
PostPosted: Sat Jun 03, 2017 11:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have heard the Coates' finger/hand injury was pretty bad but have seen it. Does anyone have a picture of it so we can gain perspective?
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1BackInBlackFan


Joined: 29 Mar 2010
Posts: 11392
Location: BACK 2 BACK!!, PA
PostPosted: Sat Jun 03, 2017 1:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ghengis Graz wrote:
I have heard the Coates' finger/hand injury was pretty bad but have seen it. Does anyone have a picture of it so we can gain perspective?




This is what it looks like now. I can't imagine what it looked like before. One thing I will never understand is if his finger was so banged up why continue to play him on special teams?
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