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Do Not Fall For The Darnold Hype
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BleedTheClock


Joined: 17 Nov 2014
Posts: 5381
PostPosted: Sun Jul 02, 2017 1:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Allen is all over the place. He needs the most work out of any of the top guys next year. However, he has a crazy ceiling. I really like him, but it's a pure projection. His decision making is poor. I don't mind his accuracy as much as I mind his decision making. Too many rifled passes into double and triple coverage. He's playing in a pro style offense which I love. He has a huge arm and frame, which I love. He has great pocket awareness and mobility which I love. There are a lot of positives with him, but his decision making with the football needs to improve drastically.

Darnold seems to have the smoothest game. The least flaws in his game. I think Allen has a higher ceiling, but both have ceilings as elite QB's. Allen just has more athleticism, size, and arm strength. Not knocking Darnold, because he's above average in all of those categories as well.

I liked Josh Rosen initially, but he did not progress as much as I thought he would. He needs to have a huge year to regain the hype he had early in his freshman season. I think he's clearly the #3 guy in this class out of the hyped trio.

Never saw Stidham play. Not high on Francois or Rudolph. Can't think of the other top names, but I wouldn't take any of the QB's with a 1st round pick other than the top 3 names...and Rosen is still a question mark for me. He's going to have a hard time selling me this year given his supporting cast is an abomination.
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CWood21


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 02, 2017 10:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

BleedTheClock wrote:
Allen is all over the place. He needs the most work out of any of the top guys next year. However, he has a crazy ceiling. I really like him, but it's a pure projection. His decision making is poor. I don't mind his accuracy as much as I mind his decision making. Too many rifled passes into double and triple coverage. He's playing in a pro style offense which I love. He has a huge arm and frame, which I love. He has great pocket awareness and mobility which I love. There are a lot of positives with him, but his decision making with the football needs to improve drastically.


To me, he's no different than Josh Freeman. Everyone looks at the impressive physical tools, and are completely willing to overlook he's a mess mechanically, accuracy issues, etc. That's not someone you invest a first round pick into.
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tannenballs


Joined: 25 Sep 2014
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 02, 2017 12:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

CWood21 wrote:
BleedTheClock wrote:
Allen is all over the place. He needs the most work out of any of the top guys next year. However, he has a crazy ceiling. I really like him, but it's a pure projection. His decision making is poor. I don't mind his accuracy as much as I mind his decision making. Too many rifled passes into double and triple coverage. He's playing in a pro style offense which I love. He has a huge arm and frame, which I love. He has great pocket awareness and mobility which I love. There are a lot of positives with him, but his decision making with the football needs to improve drastically.


To me, he's no different than Josh Freeman. Everyone looks at the impressive physical tools, and are completely willing to overlook he's a mess mechanically, accuracy issues, etc. That's not someone you invest a first round pick into.


Except he's exponentially more talented than Josh Freeman. Cam Newton would be a good comp, but his arm isn't as strong as Allen's. Allen has the strongest arm in the last 5+ years easily, and he'll run a 4.6 when it's time.

He's easily a 1st round talent, and will be the #1 pick if Darnold returns.
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BleedTheClock


Joined: 17 Nov 2014
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 02, 2017 12:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Allen is not a statue, but I don't think he's an awesome athlete like Cam Newton was. Hell, I think Paxton Lynch is more athletic than Allen. I'd bet my house he doesn't run a 4.6.
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IDOG_det


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 02, 2017 1:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

tannenballs wrote:
CWood21 wrote:
BleedTheClock wrote:
Allen is all over the place. He needs the most work out of any of the top guys next year. However, he has a crazy ceiling. I really like him, but it's a pure projection. His decision making is poor. I don't mind his accuracy as much as I mind his decision making. Too many rifled passes into double and triple coverage. He's playing in a pro style offense which I love. He has a huge arm and frame, which I love. He has great pocket awareness and mobility which I love. There are a lot of positives with him, but his decision making with the football needs to improve drastically.


To me, he's no different than Josh Freeman. Everyone looks at the impressive physical tools, and are completely willing to overlook he's a mess mechanically, accuracy issues, etc. That's not someone you invest a first round pick into.


Except he's exponentially more talented than Josh Freeman. Cam Newton would be a good comp, but his arm isn't as strong as Allen's. Allen has the strongest arm in the last 5+ years easily, and he'll run a 4.6 when it's time.

He's easily a 1st round talent, and will be the #1 pick if Darnold returns.
this post is not going to age well
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tannenballs


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 02, 2017 1:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

BleedTheClock wrote:
Allen is not a statue, but I don't think he's an awesome athlete like Cam Newton was. Hell, I think Paxton Lynch is more athletic than Allen. I'd bet my house he doesn't run a 4.6.


Does a 4.69 count Wink

In the last 6 drafts, there have been 3 quarterbacks I would bet my house on becoming franchise quarterbacks: Luck, Carr, and Winston. Darnold and Allen are in the same club.

The Bears should have waited, Jets and 49ers/Browns are going to be very happy.
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tannenballs


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 02, 2017 1:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

IDOG_det wrote:
tannenballs wrote:
CWood21 wrote:
BleedTheClock wrote:
Allen is all over the place. He needs the most work out of any of the top guys next year. However, he has a crazy ceiling. I really like him, but it's a pure projection. His decision making is poor. I don't mind his accuracy as much as I mind his decision making. Too many rifled passes into double and triple coverage. He's playing in a pro style offense which I love. He has a huge arm and frame, which I love. He has great pocket awareness and mobility which I love. There are a lot of positives with him, but his decision making with the football needs to improve drastically.


To me, he's no different than Josh Freeman. Everyone looks at the impressive physical tools, and are completely willing to overlook he's a mess mechanically, accuracy issues, etc. That's not someone you invest a first round pick into.


Except he's exponentially more talented than Josh Freeman. Cam Newton would be a good comp, but his arm isn't as strong as Allen's. Allen has the strongest arm in the last 5+ years easily, and he'll run a 4.6 when it's time.

He's easily a 1st round talent, and will be the #1 pick if Darnold returns.
this post is not going to age well


I hate player comps in general. All you think about is the player you compare the prospect to.

But they have very similar strengths/weaknesses. Allen is closer to Cam than he is Carson Wentz. Allen and Cam have very good arm talent, AA, size, play strength, ability to extend, and run ability. Both also struggle with mental processing and touch.

Player comps suck, but Idk who else to compare him to.
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tannenballs


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 02, 2017 1:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

P.S. Josh Rosen will be a bust. Gut feeling. I feel as strongly that he will bust as Luck, Carr and Jameis would be franchise quarterbacks.
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BleedTheClock


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 02, 2017 1:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So I went back and watched more Josh Allen while dropping the Cosby kids off at the pool.

He is a much better athlete than I initially gave him credit for. I almost want to give him the nod over Darnold, but Sam seems to have the mental processing down more. Allen is incredibly toolsy. I remember thinking I wanted the Browns to take Allen at 12 if he had declared last year. His ability to zing the ball into tight windows-regardless of having his feet set-is unbelievable and at a level of Favre-Stafford-Rodgers.

Man I hope he starts to take better care of the football because that's the one glaring concern I have right now.
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CWood21


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 02, 2017 2:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

tannenballs wrote:
Except he's exponentially more talented than Josh Freeman. Cam Newton would be a good comp, but his arm isn't as strong as Allen's. Allen has the strongest arm in the last 5+ years easily, and he'll run a 4.6 when it's time.

He's easily a 1st round talent, and will be the #1 pick if Darnold returns.


You're literally making my argument for me. You're drafting him purely on his physical tools (although, I do feel you're overrating them a fair bit) and not based on his body of work or his production.
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CalhounLambeau


Joined: 05 May 2011
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 03, 2017 8:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

BleedTheClock wrote:
So I went back and watched more Josh Allen. He is a much better athlete than I initially gave him credit for. I almost want to give him the nod over Darnold.

Don't do it.
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Forge


Joined: 19 Feb 2010
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 03, 2017 11:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

CWood21 wrote:
tannenballs wrote:
Except he's exponentially more talented than Josh Freeman. Cam Newton would be a good comp, but his arm isn't as strong as Allen's. Allen has the strongest arm in the last 5+ years easily, and he'll run a 4.6 when it's time.

He's easily a 1st round talent, and will be the #1 pick if Darnold returns.


You're literally making my argument for me. You're drafting him purely on his physical tools (although, I do feel you're overrating them a fair bit) and not based on his body of work or his production.


Teams do that all the time though. I think that's what teams did with Mahomes last year because coming out of that offense, I don't think I would be able to trust a single thing about his "body of work" or production in college. I wouldn't have been able to trust Trubisky's body of work last year either.

Yeah, Allen could definitely end up being Josh Freeman. He has that kind of floor, which is kind of scary. Typically, not my kind of first round prospect because I hate low floor guys. But I just think that there are some great things in him that we don't see from first round prospects coming out that we just take for granted will be there. Like I said, when I see him play, there's a huge range in the outcomes he could be, but when I do watch him I really do think that he could be Big ben...of course, he could just be a more physically gifted Brett Smith.

I don't worry super much about the accuracy (right now). I think I want him to work on his touch a little bit more. He's never going to be Steve Young / Aaron Rodgers type accurate, but I think if he learns how to spin the football in certain situations, he'll look a lot better. The decision making is a major flag, and that may be inexperience, may not be. This year's tape is going to be super important in that regard.
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Forge


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 03, 2017 11:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

CalhounLambeau wrote:
BleedTheClock wrote:
So I went back and watched more Josh Allen. He is a much better athlete than I initially gave him credit for. I almost want to give him the nod over Darnold.

Don't do it.


I have to agree with Calhoun on this one, and I'm one of the biggest supporters of Allen there is. But those red flags have to count for something. Yes, the ceiling is super high with Allen, but I think that guys don't really hit that ceiling all that often and Darnold doesn't really have the major red flags, at least not to Allen's extent (throwing motion doesn't bother me the way it does some people) and his ceiling is still high.
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BleedTheClock


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 03, 2017 10:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

No I agree that Darnold is ahead of Allen right now, but Allen's physical tools are ridiculous. It's not even remotely out of the question that Allen surpasses Darnold this season, but I wouldn't actually pull the trigger on Allen before Darnold at this point.
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freak_of_nature


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 03, 2017 10:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

What if Allen throws 5 INT's vs Iowa & Oregon like he did against Nebraska (the only P5 team Wyoming played last season)?
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