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How would you grade this draft for the Packers?
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palmy50


Joined: 26 Nov 2006
Posts: 15462
PostPosted: Mon May 01, 2017 4:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

gopackgo247 wrote:
palmy50 wrote:
skibrett15 wrote:
palmy50 wrote:
Bunch of guys from here have asked me to go over this Packers class. I only have my phone with me or I'd do it now. I'll get on in the next day or so and give ya my two cents. Pretty nice Packers class though. A few I liked, a few I didn't, and one we pulled on medical.


A few Palmy liked:
Kevin King
Jamaal Williams
Kofi Amichia
Josh Jones

A few he didn't:
Vince Biegel
Deangelo Yancey
Malachi Dupre (Palmy only likes small WRs Smile

Medical... Montravius Adams?


That one made me laugh. It's not that I don't like big/tall WR's. They just often have "tells" and it's hard enough getting open at this level. We all love the big ones with loose hips that can get in and out of it clean. For every Nelson, Bryant, and Jones I see there are ten that can't get away from NFL level DB's though. When I say that's a mold I don't love it's just me playing the numbers game really.


Is that something that can be developed or is that just something that some big WRs only have has a natural attribute?


It's pretty hard to fix being stiff. That's not to say you can't play in the NFL though.
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gopackgo247


Joined: 20 Jan 2017
Posts: 159
PostPosted: Mon May 01, 2017 4:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

palmy50 wrote:
gopackgo247 wrote:
palmy50 wrote:
skibrett15 wrote:
palmy50 wrote:
Bunch of guys from here have asked me to go over this Packers class. I only have my phone with me or I'd do it now. I'll get on in the next day or so and give ya my two cents. Pretty nice Packers class though. A few I liked, a few I didn't, and one we pulled on medical.


A few Palmy liked:
Kevin King
Jamaal Williams
Kofi Amichia
Josh Jones

A few he didn't:
Vince Biegel
Deangelo Yancey
Malachi Dupre (Palmy only likes small WRs Smile

Medical... Montravius Adams?


That one made me laugh. It's not that I don't like big/tall WR's. They just often have "tells" and it's hard enough getting open at this level. We all love the big ones with loose hips that can get in and out of it clean. For every Nelson, Bryant, and Jones I see there are ten that can't get away from NFL level DB's though. When I say that's a mold I don't love it's just me playing the numbers game really.


Is that something that can be developed or is that just something that some big WRs only have has a natural attribute?


It's pretty hard to fix being stiff. That's not to say you can't play in the NFL though.


Doesnt make it any easier though.
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DraftHobbyist


Joined: 17 Aug 2014
Posts: 349
PostPosted: Mon May 01, 2017 4:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

palmy50 wrote:
gopackgo247 wrote:
palmy50 wrote:
skibrett15 wrote:
palmy50 wrote:
Bunch of guys from here have asked me to go over this Packers class. I only have my phone with me or I'd do it now. I'll get on in the next day or so and give ya my two cents. Pretty nice Packers class though. A few I liked, a few I didn't, and one we pulled on medical.


A few Palmy liked:
Kevin King
Jamaal Williams
Kofi Amichia
Josh Jones

A few he didn't:
Vince Biegel
Deangelo Yancey
Malachi Dupre (Palmy only likes small WRs Smile

Medical... Montravius Adams?


That one made me laugh. It's not that I don't like big/tall WR's. They just often have "tells" and it's hard enough getting open at this level. We all love the big ones with loose hips that can get in and out of it clean. For every Nelson, Bryant, and Jones I see there are ten that can't get away from NFL level DB's though. When I say that's a mold I don't love it's just me playing the numbers game really.


Is that something that can be developed or is that just something that some big WRs only have has a natural attribute?


It's pretty hard to fix being stiff. That's not to say you can't play in the NFL though.


What do you think about Biegel's potential on the inside? The Packers seem to be looking at him as an OLB for now, but it looks like they may be interested in him as an OLB/ILB hybrid. The Packers have a history of converting OLB's to ILB's after they fail at OLB.
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PossibleCabbage


Joined: 25 Apr 2011
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PostPosted: Mon May 01, 2017 4:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

DraftHobbyist wrote:
What do you think about Biegel's potential on the inside? The Packers seem to be looking at him as an OLB for now, but it looks like they may be interested in him as an OLB/ILB hybrid. The Packers have a history of converting OLB's to ILB's after they fail at OLB.


Any time you have a guy who can play more than one position, in theory, you always start him at the more valuable (or expensive) one, and only move him if he can't cut it there.

After all, the primary value of draft picks is that you get these guys on cheap deals for four years. Might as well see if you can get the maximum value out of that cheap contract.

That's why they have a history of moving guys like Brad Jones and Carl Bradford inside.
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palmy50


Joined: 26 Nov 2006
Posts: 15462
PostPosted: Mon May 01, 2017 4:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

gopackgo247 wrote:
palmy50 wrote:
gopackgo247 wrote:
palmy50 wrote:
skibrett15 wrote:
palmy50 wrote:
Bunch of guys from here have asked me to go over this Packers class. I only have my phone with me or I'd do it now. I'll get on in the next day or so and give ya my two cents. Pretty nice Packers class though. A few I liked, a few I didn't, and one we pulled on medical.


A few Palmy liked:
Kevin King
Jamaal Williams
Kofi Amichia
Josh Jones

A few he didn't:
Vince Biegel
Deangelo Yancey
Malachi Dupre (Palmy only likes small WRs Smile

Medical... Montravius Adams?


That one made me laugh. It's not that I don't like big/tall WR's. They just often have "tells" and it's hard enough getting open at this level. We all love the big ones with loose hips that can get in and out of it clean. For every Nelson, Bryant, and Jones I see there are ten that can't get away from NFL level DB's though. When I say that's a mold I don't love it's just me playing the numbers game really.


Is that something that can be developed or is that just something that some big WRs only have has a natural attribute?


It's pretty hard to fix being stiff. That's not to say you can't play in the NFL though.


Doesnt make it any easier though.


More than anything, the game just won't play on the next level like it does on paper/college tape.

I mean, Dupre looks like your classic corner-fade WR in every way and that's just what he'll be on the next level. Pretty high percentage prospect if your looking for that mold of WR.

Yancey is a very different story though. Yancey is a smart/tough kid with strong hands that also runs high 4.4s at a hair under 230lbs. I'm not saying he can't play at the next level but those hips made it tough for him to get open in the short/mid tree IN THE DAMN BIG10.
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Stevein2012


Joined: 12 Jul 2013
Posts: 1671
PostPosted: Mon May 01, 2017 5:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

palmy50 wrote:
JBURGE25 wrote:
palmy50 wrote:
Bunch of guys from here have asked me to go over this Packers class. I only have my phone with me or I'd do it now. I'll get on in the next day or so and give ya my two cents. Pretty nice Packers class though. A few I liked, a few I didn't, and one we pulled on medical.
Gotta be Mays or Kofi... I hope


It was Biegel with a foot.


We drafted a guy with 1 foot??? WTF Ted
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Packerraymond


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PostPosted: Mon May 01, 2017 6:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Suppose I haven't given a typed response to this thread yet with all my prospect grades so here they are:

Round 2: Kevin King : This was my target for us from about mid March on. My 18th overall prospect in this draft that we got at 33. I wanted someone that was an athlete in the secondary. Someone that would match up with the top receivers in the game. We had to use Randall and Rollins wrong last year because we had no athletes. King is a guy you put on a teams best receiver and say "you cover that guy" and he'll take him away to the best of his ability, Shields was in this mold and I think House is as well. Randall and Rollins are not. I see those guys as DBs you say "you go get me the football" to. There's nothing wrong with that, Charles Woodson was never a shutdown corner, he was just insanely instinctual and best around the LOS. I hope this move cements King, House and Gunter as outside guys and allows Randall and Rollins to play closer to the LOS. I really like the mesh of cover guys and turnover guys we have right now. Grade: A

Round 2: Josh Jones : My 60th ranked player, I'll admit I did my study of Jones before the draft and didn't come back to him much after that because I didnt think we would be in the market for him. I pegged ultra versatile guys like Melinfonwu and Budda Baker as targets if Ted wanted that 3rd safety but neither guy made it to us (although Id love to see how those 3 ranked on our board) after going back over Jones now that we picked him Id probably comfortably say he should've been around the high 40s on my board. I like his downhill run fill ability as well as his ability to be rangy in zone and athletic enough to play man. I think he'll be cross trained as a CB/S and I like that. This pick has a lot of potential. Grade: B+

Round 3: Montravius Adams: My 39th ranked player. Why a team that runs an attacking 4-3 wasnt all over this guy in the 2nd I have no clue. Im nervous to see how we use this guy. He's not a 2 gap type of plugger like Guion or Clark figure to be. Those guys are strong as bulls and great hand fighters. Adams needs to play up the field, I don't see him as a block eater, he needs to be playing one gap and penetrating up field. I would almost ask him to cut 10 pounds or so and see what you have there as an interior pass rush specialist, ala Cullen Jenkins. A lot of people are afraid of this body type and I dont blame them. This is my favorite type of DT, I don't think Thornton or Worthy were given enough time or used right, I hope as a staff we just let Adams be who he is and not what the scheme requires him to be. I think we'll have a guy who is vital on 3rd downs by year 2 as an interior pocket collapsing rush tackle if we do. Otherwise this could be the next in a long line of 6'3 300 first step flameouts at tackle. Grade: A

Round 4 Vince Biegel : The 100th and final player on my top 100, Biegel was a late 3rd/early 4th kind of guy and we got him right where I projected. I love the pick even more when I saw how the board fell. Lawson is a much better player IMO but I didn't see the medical so Im not going to fault anyone for passing on him because there was a lot to go through there obviously. Biegel I can see having an Aaron Kampman type career here, try hards with above average athletic ability tend to hit at a decent clip. I think he's a guy who's ready to see snaps as a rookie and I think he's a 4 teams guy. Grade: A

Round 4: Jamaal Williams: Was my #11 RB and the 2nd highest RB I had left on my board (Brian Hill) so I was plenty happy with the pick. He reminded me James Starks, upright runner with good vision, but he likes contact a little more than Starks. Also saw a little Jordan Howard in his game as well. I think we clearly have 2 RB roles in this offense. The TyMon role (with Aaron Jones as a backup) and the Williams/Mayes/Rip role. These guys will be counted on to pass block, run between the tackles and pick up short yardage conversions. I think Williams is the only back on the roster that has a true chance to be a 3 down back, but his pass blocking will be critical on if he sees the field early. Grade : B+

Round 5: DeAngelo Yancey : I was just OK with this pick at the time and knowing we got a guy like Dupree in the 7th makes me wish we can have a do over here. I just dont see the ability to separate on the underneath stuff with Yancey. I see a guy who took advantage of his H/W/S to make big plays at the college level, but can he beat NFL corners deep? We'll see what we got here, think we panicked cause we wanted him in camp and so many other teams brought him in. Grade: C

Round 6 Aaron Jones : Was pretty confident we'd take 2 RBs this draft after looking at our visit list, but I didn't think they thought Jones would be available here so they took 3. See him as a backup to Montgomery in the draws/outside done and passing game. He's faster than what he timed, he ran away from the whole Texas defense and they have some athletes. Grade : B+

Round 7 Devante Mayes : This was the 2nd back I was pretty sure we were bringing in. I would've strayed from Mayes to pick Levon Myers here but seeing how we dumped all our other RBs post draft I'm glad we have Mayes. A more compact explosive version of Williams but with no wiggle and little potential in the pass game. Grade: C+

Round 7 Malachi Dupree: Was just outside my top 100, was in the grouping I had of 20 guys for the last 5 spots, so I guess you could say he is a top 115 guy for me. I think he can run the full route tree. He's got good hands, a great catch radius and is an Adams level leaper. We haven't had a WR like him in a long time, it's usually the Nelson, Jones, Adams mold or the Driver, Jennings, Cobb mold and he's neither. He takes facets of both sides of those games. His game kind of reminds me of a Marvin Jones or Brandon Lafell. Grade : A
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{Family Ghost}


Joined: 08 Jun 2010
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PostPosted: Mon May 01, 2017 7:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nice writeup Packerraymond ... makes me excited to see these guys in action.
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justo


Joined: 05 Aug 2012
Posts: 14349
PostPosted: Mon May 01, 2017 10:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

palmy50 wrote:
JBURGE25 wrote:
palmy50 wrote:
Bunch of guys from here have asked me to go over this Packers class. I only have my phone with me or I'd do it now. I'll get on in the next day or so and give ya my two cents. Pretty nice Packers class though. A few I liked, a few I didn't, and one we pulled on medical.
Gotta be Mays or Kofi... I hope


It was Biegel with a foot.
What do you think about him sans medical?
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palmy50


Joined: 26 Nov 2006
Posts: 15462
PostPosted: Mon May 01, 2017 10:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

justo wrote:
palmy50 wrote:
JBURGE25 wrote:
palmy50 wrote:
Bunch of guys from here have asked me to go over this Packers class. I only have my phone with me or I'd do it now. I'll get on in the next day or so and give ya my two cents. Pretty nice Packers class though. A few I liked, a few I didn't, and one we pulled on medical.
Gotta be Mays or Kofi... I hope


It was Biegel with a foot.
What do you think about him sans medical?


Biegel was one of mine. Checked a lot of boxes before they took him from me. Easy to love! Motor was never in doubt and gets the most out of what was given. At the very least you should have a demon special teams guy. Think with some sound coaching he could be one hell of an off the ball LB as well.

I have some doubt about his ability to beat NFL tackles rushing the passer though. He'll win with effort every now and again but I don't see many impact sacks. Not sure he can stack it in the run game on the edge in this Capers system either. Hands are not very heavy and the numbers don't play here.

I feel pretty good about saying Packers will see his best. Hard to ask for more than that really. Hope he stays healthy and plays well. Just happy they picked a good football player here, if not, giving away that 5th year of control on the first rounder would have come up.
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justo


Joined: 05 Aug 2012
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PostPosted: Mon May 01, 2017 10:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

palmy50 wrote:
justo wrote:
palmy50 wrote:
JBURGE25 wrote:
palmy50 wrote:
Bunch of guys from here have asked me to go over this Packers class. I only have my phone with me or I'd do it now. I'll get on in the next day or so and give ya my two cents. Pretty nice Packers class though. A few I liked, a few I didn't, and one we pulled on medical.
Gotta be Mays or Kofi... I hope


It was Biegel with a foot.
What do you think about him sans medical?


Biegel was one of mine. Checked a lot of boxes before they took him from me. Easy to love! Motor was never in doubt and gets the most out of what was given.

Just happy they picked a good football player here, if not, giving away that 5th year of control on the first rounder would have come up.


I've had my eyes on him since his sophomore season season I think, but never went back to really watch him until before the Senior Bowl because he didn't get much hype (assume because production?) I ended up loving him. Those Wisconsin guys love push-pulling the hell out of Big 10 tight ends. He's always playing with his hands above his eyes. I thought he was kind of an underrated athlete. Bummer to hear that his medical wasn't clean, though.

Quick Q: Does the fifth-year option really mean that much? I just keep thinking about the Whitney Mercilus situation where Houston extended him before the fourth year ran out and when Green Bay got Nick Perry back on that prove it deal that was cheaper than the option
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JBURGE25


Joined: 25 Jan 2012
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PostPosted: Mon May 01, 2017 10:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

justo wrote:
palmy50 wrote:
justo wrote:
palmy50 wrote:
JBURGE25 wrote:
palmy50 wrote:
Bunch of guys from here have asked me to go over this Packers class. I only have my phone with me or I'd do it now. I'll get on in the next day or so and give ya my two cents. Pretty nice Packers class though. A few I liked, a few I didn't, and one we pulled on medical.
Gotta be Mays or Kofi... I hope


It was Biegel with a foot.
What do you think about him sans medical?


Biegel was one of mine. Checked a lot of boxes before they took him from me. Easy to love! Motor was never in doubt and gets the most out of what was given.

Just happy they picked a good football player here, if not, giving away that 5th year of control on the first rounder would have come up.


I've had my eyes on him since his sophomore season season I think, but never went back to really watch him until before the Senior Bowl because he didn't get much hype (assume because production?) I ended up loving him. Those Wisconsin guys love push-pulling the hell out of Big 10 tight ends. He's always playing with his hands above his eyes. I thought he was kind of an underrated athlete. Bummer to hear that his medical wasn't clean, though.

Quick Q: Does the fifth-year option really mean that much? I just keep thinking about the Whitney Mercilus situation where Houston extended him before the fourth year ran out and when Green Bay got Nick Perry back on that prove it deal that was cheaper than the option
For me it depends on the position. At a premium position like corner, sure
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packerjmf


Joined: 19 Jan 2006
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PostPosted: Mon May 01, 2017 11:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

justo wrote:
palmy50 wrote:
justo wrote:
palmy50 wrote:
JBURGE25 wrote:
palmy50 wrote:
Bunch of guys from here have asked me to go over this Packers class. I only have my phone with me or I'd do it now. I'll get on in the next day or so and give ya my two cents. Pretty nice Packers class though. A few I liked, a few I didn't, and one we pulled on medical.
Gotta be Mays or Kofi... I hope


It was Biegel with a foot.
What do you think about him sans medical?


Biegel was one of mine. Checked a lot of boxes before they took him from me. Easy to love! Motor was never in doubt and gets the most out of what was given.

Just happy they picked a good football player here, if not, giving away that 5th year of control on the first rounder would have come up.


I've had my eyes on him since his sophomore season season I think, but never went back to really watch him until before the Senior Bowl because he didn't get much hype (assume because production?) I ended up loving him. Those Wisconsin guys love push-pulling the hell out of Big 10 tight ends. He's always playing with his hands above his eyes. I thought he was kind of an underrated athlete. Bummer to hear that his medical wasn't clean, though.

Quick Q: Does the fifth-year option really mean that much? I just keep thinking about the Whitney Mercilus situation where Houston extended him before the fourth year ran out and when Green Bay got Nick Perry back on that prove it deal that was cheaper than the option

Isn't Perry a bit of an outlier though? He had shown some flashes but hadn't really shown enough (partly due to injury) to give him much of a market. Move up his production like he had this year to the previous year and there's no way we could get him on a cheap "prove it" deal.
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PackyAttacky


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PostPosted: Tue May 02, 2017 5:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you have the money I cannot imagine the fifth year option being that big of a deal. You should know what you have out of a player in four years and pay accordingly. Heck MN just paid Barr 12 mil next year to pick up his contract, that is pretty much what he is going to make on a regular extension deal right? Maybe a little less, I guess with inflation probably that amount. Why [inappropriate/removed] off the player? HaHa is the only player I can think of that he gave the fifth year option to.
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