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2017 7.12 (230) S Josh Harvey-Clemons, Louisville
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turtle28


Joined: 21 Nov 2007
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PostPosted: Tue May 02, 2017 10:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Marcus21 wrote:
turtle28 wrote:
Doc Draper wrote:
Marcus21 wrote:
Ugh...
https://youtu.be/NiU4SQkOyno


This is pretty bad tape!

But I'm struck who has the time or interest to take several seasons of cut ups on a seventh round pick? Just makes me wonder


So, David Lacks-a-life took the time to go through all of the plays where Harvey-Clemons didn't play well, probably not just from last year but in Harvey-Clemons's entire career.

Were these all plays one year?

Were they all last year?

Were they over 2 or 3 years?

Were they when he was a freshman or sophomore?

Just like someone can find a bunch of clips/a highlight reel to make a player look better than what he is, he can do the same to make a player look worse than what he is.

This video is nothing but a smear campaign. Scouts had Harvey-Clemons pegged as a mid round first pick, there's no way he got graded as such by scouts if this is the only tape of him throughout his career. This video is bunch of BS! Twisted Evil

Here's a good break down of Harvey-Clemons. This guy on NFLN says he could be the steal of the 7th round.

https://youtu.be/vJ41a2JLtd8


He only played two years at Louisville. You are welcome to watch his game tapes... there are a few on YouTube. I am underwhelmed to say the least! He will never play safety in the NFL. Maybe he can play that hybrid dime linebacker.
So, this guy took all of his bad tape from two years and put it on a YouTube video, and you're gullible enough to believe he always plays that way?

I watched other clips, like clips of his game vs Clemson last year (who had a qb, rb, wr & TE who were all drafted in the 2017 draft) and he had an up and down game. He was much better when the Louisville defensive coaches had him attacking the line of scrimmage from his safety position or playing more like a weakside LB or hybrid dime LB and that's why our coaches have already come out and said he will play dime LB which is like an in the box safety on run downs. He's good against the run, not good at coverage in space against good receivers, that's the main reason why he was a 7th round pick.

This Clemson game breakdown clearly shows that:

https://youtu.be/IVEjlQ1PEJQ
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Doc Draper


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PostPosted: Tue May 02, 2017 11:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Marcus21 wrote:
turtle28 wrote:
Doc Draper wrote:
Marcus21 wrote:
Ugh...
https://youtu.be/NiU4SQkOyno


This is pretty bad tape!

But I'm struck who has the time or interest to take several seasons of cut ups on a seventh round pick? Just makes me wonder


So, David Lacks-a-life took the time to go through all of the plays where Harvey-Clemons didn't play well, probably not just from last year but in Harvey-Clemons's entire career.

Were these all plays one year?

Were they all last year?

Were they over 2 or 3 years?

Were they when he was a freshman or sophomore?

Just like someone can find a bunch of clips/a highlight reel to make a player look better than what he is, he can do the same to make a player look worse than what he is.

This video is nothing but a smear campaign. Scouts had Harvey-Clemons pegged as a mid round first pick, there's no way he got graded as such by scouts if this is the only tape of him throughout his career. This video is bunch of BS! Twisted Evil

Here's a good break down of Harvey-Clemons. This guy on NFLN says he could be the steal of the 7th round.

https://youtu.be/vJ41a2JLtd8


He only played two years at Louisville. You are welcome to watch his game tapes... there are a few on YouTube. I am underwhelmed to say the least! He will never play safety in the NFL. Maybe he can play that hybrid dime linebacker.


I expect he will be a good special teamer and depth at hybrid S/LB. I am rooting for the kid because he's a hitter
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DCRED


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PostPosted: Wed May 03, 2017 12:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

How awesome would it be if he did mix in some at LB eventually and became a hard-hitting, athletic cover LB to our run stuffing thumper opposite him?

I know, it's a pipe dream now. But as a 7th rounder I love the risk

and I do love the hybrid S/LB thing with more teams threatening the seams
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turtle28


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PostPosted: Wed May 03, 2017 1:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

DCRED wrote:
How awesome would it be if he did mix in some at LB eventually and became a hard-hitting, athletic cover LB to our run stuffing thumper opposite him?

I know, it's a pipe dream now. But as a 7th rounder I love the risk and I do love the hybrid S/LB thing with more teams threatening the seams
That's exactly what they will try to do with him. It will take some development but he has the skills to get there eventually IMO.

He's certainly not a good coverage safety, so when Marcus points that out, he's right, but that's not how he should be used and not how we will use him so you can throw that tape out.

He compares to Kam Chancellor, Deon Buchanan and Telvin Smith, but not as developed as those 3 coming out. Still, he has that kind of skill set and potential, he just needs some more development. Hopefully he gets there, if all he ever is is a special teams demon and back up S & hybrid/dime Lb, then that's fine too. He was only a 7th round pick after all, we shouldn't expect him to be a starter. If he becomes a starter eventually, that's just gravy.
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Marcus21


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PostPosted: Wed May 03, 2017 4:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

turtle28 wrote:
DCRED wrote:
How awesome would it be if he did mix in some at LB eventually and became a hard-hitting, athletic cover LB to our run stuffing thumper opposite him?

I know, it's a pipe dream now. But as a 7th rounder I love the risk and I do love the hybrid S/LB thing with more teams threatening the seams
That's exactly what they will try to do with him. It will take some development but he has the skills to get there eventually IMO.

He's certainly not a good coverage safety, so when Marcus points that out, he's right, but that's not how he should be used and not how we will use him so you can throw that tape out.

He compares to Kam Chancellor, Deon Buchanan and Telvin Smith, but not as developed as those 3 coming out. Still, he has that kind of skill set and potential, he just needs some more development. Hopefully he gets there, if all he ever is is a special teams demon and back up S & hybrid/dime Lb, then that's fine too. He was only a 7th round pick after all, we shouldn't expect him to be a starter. If he becomes a starter eventually, that's just gravy.


I'm not even going to comment much about his coverage skills... it's atrocious. You made a comment about he had an up and down against Clemson. You need to watch it again... it's pretty bad. Horrible recognition of run or pass...very slow to react. He takes bad angles. I will say that he is not afraid of contact and is a sound tackler when he is able to get to the ball carrier! Unable to shed blocks and easily blocked by RBs.

https://youtu.be/IVEjlQ1PEJQ

Here is a game he had two interceptions. He was more one less just standing there for one and the other was a jump ball. Again, bad run fits and play recognition.

https://youtu.be/TDBCp0y2qro

Are you noticing a theme?

https://youtu.be/lPa3JC0V71Q

The comparison to Cam or Deone is laughable! I really hope that I am wrong. I don't see this kid even making the PS!!
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Doc Draper


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PostPosted: Wed May 03, 2017 5:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

think about this guy starting every game (because "Doughnut Boy" never takes the ball first) and running so hard down the field covering that beautiful kick that sails through the endzone. That's what you will see n 2017.
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A TRAIN 89


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PostPosted: Wed May 03, 2017 5:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Marcus21 wrote:
turtle28 wrote:
DCRED wrote:
How awesome would it be if he did mix in some at LB eventually and became a hard-hitting, athletic cover LB to our run stuffing thumper opposite him?

I know, it's a pipe dream now. But as a 7th rounder I love the risk and I do love the hybrid S/LB thing with more teams threatening the seams
That's exactly what they will try to do with him. It will take some development but he has the skills to get there eventually IMO.

He's certainly not a good coverage safety, so when Marcus points that out, he's right, but that's not how he should be used and not how we will use him so you can throw that tape out.

He compares to Kam Chancellor, Deon Buchanan and Telvin Smith, but not as developed as those 3 coming out. Still, he has that kind of skill set and potential, he just needs some more development. Hopefully he gets there, if all he ever is is a special teams demon and back up S & hybrid/dime Lb, then that's fine too. He was only a 7th round pick after all, we shouldn't expect him to be a starter. If he becomes a starter eventually, that's just gravy.


I'm not even going to comment much about his coverage skills... it's atrocious. You made a comment about he had an up and down against Clemson. You need to watch it again... it's pretty bad. Horrible recognition of run or pass...very slow to react. He takes bad angles. I will say that he is not afraid of contact and is a sound tackler when he is able to get to the ball carrier! Unable to shed blocks and easily blocked by RBs.

https://youtu.be/IVEjlQ1PEJQ

Here is a game he had two interceptions. He was more one less just standing there for one and the other was a jump ball. Again, bad run fits and play recognition.

https://youtu.be/TDBCp0y2qro

Are you noticing a theme?

https://youtu.be/lPa3JC0V71Q

The comparison to Cam or Deone is laughable! I really hope that I am wrong. I don't see this kid even making the PS!!


Kam Chancellor coming out of VT was atrocious in coverage. I'm not saying JHC will suddenly become a pro bowler, but he'll definitely be given opportunity to show what he's got.

Its important to understand that situation matters. Kam Chancellor is not Kam Chancellor without Earl Thomas, Richard Sherman and Brandon Browner.

You could do worse in the 7th round. He has elite measurables accompanied with a mean streak. I think its a fantastic choice in terms of taking a late round flyer on a guy with natural ability who's extremely raw and unpolished.
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MKnight82


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PostPosted: Wed May 03, 2017 5:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This guy is the next piece in the Redskins plan to start 11 hybrid linebackers on defense.
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DCRED


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PostPosted: Wed May 03, 2017 6:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

MKnight82 wrote:
This guy is the next piece in the Redskins plan to start 11 hybrid linebackers on defense.


Will that be before or after we start 10--6'2"+ Wr's and send them all out on fades????? Laughing (by the way, I Freakin' LOVE our WR's size)
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turtle28


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PostPosted: Wed May 03, 2017 7:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

MKnight82 wrote:
This guy is the next piece in the Redskins plan to start 11 hybrid linebackers on defense.
Right now, he's 1 of 1.
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turtle28


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PostPosted: Wed May 03, 2017 8:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Marcus21 wrote:
turtle28 wrote:
DCRED wrote:
How awesome would it be if he did mix in some at LB eventually and became a hard-hitting, athletic cover LB to our run stuffing thumper opposite him?

I know, it's a pipe dream now. But as a 7th rounder I love the risk and I do love the hybrid S/LB thing with more teams threatening the seams
That's exactly what they will try to do with him. It will take some development but he has the skills to get there eventually IMO.

He's certainly not a good coverage safety, so when Marcus points that out, he's right, but that's not how he should be used and not how we will use him so you can throw that tape out.

He compares to Kam Chancellor, Deon Buchanan and Telvin Smith, but not as developed as those 3 coming out. Still, he has that kind of skill set and potential, he just needs some more development. Hopefully he gets there, if all he ever is is a special teams demon and back up S & hybrid/dime Lb, then that's fine too. He was only a 7th round pick after all, we shouldn't expect him to be a starter. If he becomes a starter eventually, that's just gravy.


I'm not even going to comment much about his coverage skills... it's atrocious. You made a comment about he had an up and down against Clemson. You need to watch it again... it's pretty bad. Horrible recognition of run or pass...very slow to react. He takes bad angles. I will say that he is not afraid of contact and is a sound tackler when he is able to get to the ball carrier! Unable to shed blocks and easily blocked by RBs.

https://youtu.be/IVEjlQ1PEJQ

Here is a game he had two interceptions. He was more one less just standing there for one and the other was a jump ball. Again, bad run fits and play recognition.

https://youtu.be/TDBCp0y2qro

Are you noticing a theme?

https://youtu.be/lPa3JC0V71Q

The comparison to Cam or Deone is laughable! I really hope that I am wrong. I don't see this kid even making the PS!!
So... he's an upgrade over the safeties we had last year before even one practice? Wink Cool

The comparison to Kam, Buchanan and Telvin was only in size and what his strengths are which, I thought I made clear when I said he's not as developed as them coming out. It's pretty clear that Harvey Clemons had the size you want in a SS/dime/hybrid LB and the attitude and willingness to be that kind of player aka an enforcer from either the SS position or as a WLB/dime LB. He has some natural talent as far as size and speed, he just needs more development and more work. I'm not comparing him to finished products such as how the other 3 play now, I'm saying he could develop into a poorer version of them in time.

http://www.nfl.com/draft/2017/profiles/josh-harvey-clemons?id=2557880

Quote:
PICK ANALYSIS:
Washington could eventually utilize developmental 'tweener Harvey-Clemons as a matchup solution to the athletic tight ends in the NFC East. --Mark Dulgerian

Strengths

Rangy, long frame with exceptionally long limbs. Arm length is what offensive line coaches look for in a tackle. Plays the game with edge and embraces physical requirement of the position. First responder who races downhill into the action. Rarely taps the brakes into his tackles. Square-up, wrap-up finisher. Took on blocks with aggressiveness and leverage when asked to play inside linebacker. His long arms help cast wide net as tackler. Rare athleticism for his size. Flips hips for instant change of direction as tackler or in coverage. Excellent range as a tackler. Plays faster than his timed speed. Communicative on the field. Balances attention between quarterback's eyes and assignments around him as two-deep safety. Quick to find coverage work after diagnosing play-action from the box. Adjusts coverage responsibilities based on scrambling direction of quarterback.

Weaknesses

Skinny legs. Needs more discipline in playing with inside-out leverage in run support. Downhill GPS to running backs needs fine tuning. Tends to attack at angles under running back, forcing too many diving attempts on perimeter. Can be a little slow hustling back to high safety spot from disguised coverages. Deshaun Watson picked on him in coverage. From single-high position, needs anticipation and earlier response to throws. Will lose sight of deep responsibilities as high safety at times. Panics and grabs when he fears he's beaten. Needs to trust his length and recover speed more often. Dismissed from Georgia after three strikes, including failed marijuana tests.

"I love the athlete and the toughness, but he's a multiple-time (drug) tester on the college level. Those guys have a high rate of testing positive again. I need to do more background work on him but I really worry about suspensions for him." -- AFC North area scout

NFL Comparison
Kam Chancellor


Former five-star recruit with an alpha mentality who roams the field with swagger and undeniable intent as a tackler. Has elite size, length and athletic traits, and is a rangy tackler with the ability to cover and blitz. He could be considered by teams as a box safety or hybrid linebacker.

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Last edited by turtle28 on Wed May 03, 2017 8:41 pm; edited 1 time in total
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turtle28


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PostPosted: Wed May 03, 2017 8:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Doc Draper wrote:
think about this guy starting every game and running so hard down the field covering that beautiful kick that sails through the endzone. That's what you will see n 2017.
Yep, special teams ace. That's most likely what he'll be in his career and a back up, he's replacing what we had in Terrence Garvin last year.
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MKnight82


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PostPosted: Thu May 04, 2017 9:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

turtle28 wrote:
MKnight82 wrote:
This guy is the next piece in the Redskins plan to start 11 hybrid linebackers on defense.
Right now, he's 1 of 1.
3. Cravens and the two rooks.
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rizzy


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PostPosted: Thu May 04, 2017 10:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

This guy has a pretty good breakdown of him and some of the other draft picks. https://twitter.com/p_connerjr?lang=en
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turtle28


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PostPosted: Thu May 04, 2017 6:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

MKnight82 wrote:
turtle28 wrote:
MKnight82 wrote:
This guy is the next piece in the Redskins plan to start 11 hybrid linebackers on defense.
Right now, he's 1 of 1.
3. Cravens and the two rooks.
Remains to be seen how they use Cravens, we think he'll still be used as a dime LB, but won't know until Gruden or Manusky entirely defines his role or we see it on the field.

Nicholson is not a dime LB, I don't see him having the size or willingness to be that kind of player at all. He's a true safety. Sure, he's more of an in the box type than a free safety - who's good in coverage - but I don't see him at all being a dime LB.
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