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smetana34


Joined: 14 Feb 2007
Posts: 4188
Location: Chippewa Falls, WI
PostPosted: Wed Jun 21, 2017 12:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

HorizontoZenith wrote:

If it was that up in the air, I wouldn't be able to accurately predict that our day one outside starters are going to be King and House. And that's who our day one starters are going to be on the outside. King and House. Randall in the slot, Rollins dime, and Gunter in our six pack and a pound package.

Barring injuries, I'd be willing to bet King isn't our Day 1 starter. Whether that's House/Randall on the boundaries, or House/Gunter on the boundaries, King won't be starting our first game without injuries to our other options.

It's way too early to give up on Randall being a boundary option after looking very good his rookie season. He will be given the opportunity to show last year's play was due to injury. Should he fail, Gunter will slide in there. He got some quality reps and looked decent against team's number 1's. He was killed against the elite receivers in this league (Dez, Julio) but he can absolutely play against teams #2/#3 options. King will be brought along slowly, just like every other rookie we've drafted on the defensive side of the ball. The only one I can think of that started from Day 1 was Haha, at a position of dire need. Our CB situation isn't nearly as bad as the safety spot opposite Burnett was.
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boratt


Joined: 04 Sep 2007
Posts: 996
PostPosted: Wed Jun 21, 2017 12:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

When Joe Whitt says Herb Waters was covering everyone in OTAs, I believe him. Waters is a dark horse to push the starters.

In order, these are the guys I think are our best players at CB just from what I've seen and then adding in what I've heard from coaches so far.....

1. Randall
2. House
3. King - could see him knock off House by seasons end
4. Waters - could see him move up as well
5. Gunter
6. Rollins
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Chili


Joined: 13 May 2014
Posts: 621
PostPosted: Wed Jun 21, 2017 1:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have read a few articles this offseason about the Packers coaches saying they need to get Cobb more of the ball but I honestly can't see how.

If we're going to run more 2TE sets he's probably either off the field or splitting snaps with Adams as no.2 WR.

Even if we're in 3WR sets he still faces stiff competition with Nelson, Bennett, Adams for targets.

Not only that, based on the draft and the offseason it appears we will also re-commit to the run game compared to the band-aid rushing attack we had last season. We were forced to go pass heavy to compensate but this season I think we will see a return to a more balanced offence with the new TEs being a key part of that.

All of this points to Cobb seeing less targets.

However having said all that if we had to choose between Cobb for 3WR sets or Kendricks for 2TE sets I think we would choose Cobb everytime and that suggests we would still be in 3WR sets the majority of the time and that the impact on Cobb's targets would be minimal anyway.

It will be interesting to see which way it will shake out for Cobb.

If he does face a decrease in targets then that could mean seeing Cobb spending more time as a kick/punt returner.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Now my thoughts has turned to ILB. Reading articles and quotes from the defensive staff about the evolution of the ILB trending towards pass defence. With a bigger emphasis on LB having to be able to cover i'm suddenly thinking Jake Ryan's roster spot isn't as secure as we all like to think.

Joe Thomas has really stepped up over the past couple of years and he has a real shot of claiming the starting ILB gig in our base 2-4-5 defence. Thomas had the most snaps last season which points to his importance to the team. Blake Martinez showed early promise to take the green dot helmet but faded as the season went on. If he shows a big 2nd year jump then he would be the one competing with Thomas for snaps, not Ryan.

Jake Ryan has zero sacks, zero interceptions and zero fumbles so far in his career. The other two ILB are arguably better in coverage and that puts Ryan in a undesirable situation especially with the way the league is trending. He would have to really make a big jump to beat out Thomas and Martinez. He also face competition losing reps to Jones and Burnett and the odd Clay Matthews foray inside.

If the UDFA ILBs shows better form on special teams than Ryan then his roster spot would be in serious jeopardy.

I think there's still a place for him on the team as an early down run stopper considering our schedule against run heavy teams, but the schedule also demands linebackers who can cover as we're playing many high powered offences like Detroit, New Orleans and Pittsburgh.

I think it's time to change the way we view Jake Ryan now. He is currently spoken of as a "starter" in the eyes of many Packers fans but the clues suggests otherwise.
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Shanedorf


Joined: 18 Mar 2014
Posts: 1583
PostPosted: Wed Jun 21, 2017 2:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Joe Thomas played a lot of snaps in 2016, (634 or 61 % of defensive snaps) but he's likely gonna lose some of those to other players in 2017.

I believe Jake Ryan is a roster lock for 2017.
My guess: The Packers didn't draft Josh Jones to take some of Ryan's snaps, they drafted Jones to take some of Thomas' snaps (among other duties.)
Also noted , Jake Ryan is credited with 1 fumble recovery in 2015

from JSO
http://www.jsonline.com/story/sports/nfl/packers/baranczyk%20/2016/10/04/packers-run-defense-built-last/91544922/

The Packers have started well against the run for several reasons, but their tackling stats suggest a big one: After three games, starting inside linebackers Jake Ryan (22 tackles) and Blake Martinez (18 tackles) have combined for 40 tackles. After three games last year, the starters at the time, Clay Matthews (12) and Nate Palmer (14), had 26.

And Ryan and Martinez aren’t racking up tackling numbers while giving up good gains. Pro Football Focus has a stat called “stops” that it defines as a tackle that results in an offensive failure based on down and distance. Half of Martinez’s and Ryan’s tackles have been stops.
.
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blankman0021


Joined: 02 May 2007
Posts: 2755
Location: MKE
PostPosted: Wed Jun 21, 2017 2:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Chili wrote:
I have read a few articles this offseason about the Packers coaches saying they need to get Cobb more of the ball but I honestly can't see how.

If we're going to run more 2TE sets he's probably either off the field or splitting snaps with Adams as no.2 WR.

Even if we're in 3WR sets he still faces stiff competition with Nelson, Bennett, Adams for targets.

Not only that, based on the draft and the offseason it appears we will also re-commit to the run game compared to the band-aid rushing attack we had last season. We were forced to go pass heavy to compensate but this season I think we will see a return to a more balanced offence with the new TEs being a key part of that.

All of this points to Cobb seeing less targets.

However having said all that if we had to choose between Cobb for 3WR sets or Kendricks for 2TE sets I think we would choose Cobb everytime and that suggests we would still be in 3WR sets the majority of the time and that the impact on Cobb's targets would be minimal anyway.

It will be interesting to see which way it will shake out for Cobb.

If he does face a decrease in targets then that could mean seeing Cobb spending more time as a kick/punt returner.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Now my thoughts has turned to ILB. Reading articles and quotes from the defensive staff about the evolution of the ILB trending towards pass defence. With a bigger emphasis on LB having to be able to cover i'm suddenly thinking Jake Ryan's roster spot isn't as secure as we all like to think.

Joe Thomas has really stepped up over the past couple of years and he has a real shot of claiming the starting ILB gig in our base 2-4-5 defence. Thomas had the most snaps last season which points to his importance to the team. Blake Martinez showed early promise to take the green dot helmet but faded as the season went on. If he shows a big 2nd year jump then he would be the one competing with Thomas for snaps, not Ryan.

Jake Ryan has zero sacks, zero interceptions and zero fumbles so far in his career. The other two ILB are arguably better in coverage and that puts Ryan in a undesirable situation especially with the way the league is trending. He would have to really make a big jump to beat out Thomas and Martinez. He also face competition losing reps to Jones and Burnett and the odd Clay Matthews foray inside.

If the UDFA ILBs shows better form on special teams than Ryan then his roster spot would be in serious jeopardy.

I think there's still a place for him on the team as an early down run stopper considering our schedule against run heavy teams, but the schedule also demands linebackers who can cover as we're playing many high powered offences like Detroit, New Orleans and Pittsburgh.

I think it's time to change the way we view Jake Ryan now. He is currently spoken of as a "starter" in the eyes of many Packers fans but the clues suggests otherwise.


A few thoughts -- I've been thinking for a while now that the Kendricks signing says more about Rip than it does about Cobb. Kendricks played an H back role, and we historically like bringing our TE into the backfield, and splitting our FB out wide. Kendricks would be perfect in that role. Rip has a bit more pop blocking to him, plus the ability to run from the FB role, but Kendricks is no doubt the better athlete and has better hands.

Jake Ryan would sure be a surprising cut. So surprising, that I don't see it happening. He's still on his rookie deal, and if I remember right, lead the team in tackles last year. I doubt we carry more than three ILBs though. Ryan, Martinez, and Thomas I'm expecting to hold the fort again this year with a heavy dose of sub packages pulling all 3 off the field often.
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vegas492


Joined: 30 Oct 2012
Posts: 1510
Location: Pewaukee, Wisconsin
PostPosted: Wed Jun 21, 2017 4:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Shanedorf wrote:
Quote:
="vegas492"
I'm a bit put off by his attitude as well.

I don't know how much time you've spent hanging out with Demarious
IF the answer is "none" then the way that sentence above should read is:

"I'm a bit put off by his attitude as reported to me by various news outlets who are often interested in creating interest/controversy and clicks"

Not sure how much credibility I give those attitude reports and I'd shy away from parroting those opinions. Randall was under fire last year and neither he nor the Packers released much info on his knee, shoulder and groin injuries.
If you were getting slammed relentlessly in the media ( perhaps unfairly), you might be seen as having an "attitude" too. Its tough living in a fishbowl, even tougher when you're a young player under heavy fire


I'm not judging him solely on newspaper quotes....
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NormSizedMidget


Joined: 28 Mar 2011
Posts: 17912
PostPosted: Wed Jun 21, 2017 4:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

vegas492 wrote:
Shanedorf wrote:
Quote:
="vegas492"
I'm a bit put off by his attitude as well.

I don't know how much time you've spent hanging out with Demarious
IF the answer is "none" then the way that sentence above should read is:

"I'm a bit put off by his attitude as reported to me by various news outlets who are often interested in creating interest/controversy and clicks"

Not sure how much credibility I give those attitude reports and I'd shy away from parroting those opinions. Randall was under fire last year and neither he nor the Packers released much info on his knee, shoulder and groin injuries.
If you were getting slammed relentlessly in the media ( perhaps unfairly), you might be seen as having an "attitude" too. Its tough living in a fishbowl, even tougher when you're a young player under heavy fire


I'm not judging him solely on newspaper quotes....


People who follow his social media and stuff say he's quite the.....whatever you want to insert here. Then his interviews too. I can see it. I just don't read into it.
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BlondeonBlonde


Joined: 10 Mar 2014
Posts: 333
Location: Appleton, WI
PostPosted: Wed Jun 21, 2017 5:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Letroy Guion was arrested for drunk driving in Hawaii. I suspect this is the final straw for him and his release is now imminent.

Also, I'm deliberately not posting the link out of spite to a certain poster. Wink
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vegas492


Joined: 30 Oct 2012
Posts: 1510
Location: Pewaukee, Wisconsin
PostPosted: Wed Jun 21, 2017 5:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

NormSizedMidget wrote:
vegas492 wrote:
Shanedorf wrote:
Quote:
="vegas492"
I'm a bit put off by his attitude as well.

I don't know how much time you've spent hanging out with Demarious
IF the answer is "none" then the way that sentence above should read is:

"I'm a bit put off by his attitude as reported to me by various news outlets who are often interested in creating interest/controversy and clicks"

Not sure how much credibility I give those attitude reports and I'd shy away from parroting those opinions. Randall was under fire last year and neither he nor the Packers released much info on his knee, shoulder and groin injuries.
If you were getting slammed relentlessly in the media ( perhaps unfairly), you might be seen as having an "attitude" too. Its tough living in a fishbowl, even tougher when you're a young player under heavy fire


I'm not judging him solely on newspaper quotes....


People who follow his social media and stuff say he's quite the.....whatever you want to insert here. Then his interviews too. I can see it. I just don't read into it.

Personally I like corners to have some swagger in them...and a short memory. So I can give Randall more or less a pass concerning his attitude. Not a big deal to me. But, saying that it is something that is more or less "made up" by the media simply isn't accurate.

That being said, I think the slot is perfect for him. I believe that if he takes to coaching and if the game slows down for him, man, he is going to be a heckuva player.
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From my perspective, and I don't know if Brett would say this [publicly] -- I know he's shared with me -- we would not be nearly as appreciative of everything that the Packers are had we not seen it from the other side," ---Ryan Longwell 2016
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NormSizedMidget


Joined: 28 Mar 2011
Posts: 17912
PostPosted: Wed Jun 21, 2017 5:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

vegas492 wrote:
NormSizedMidget wrote:
vegas492 wrote:
Shanedorf wrote:
Quote:
="vegas492"
I'm a bit put off by his attitude as well.

I don't know how much time you've spent hanging out with Demarious
IF the answer is "none" then the way that sentence above should read is:

"I'm a bit put off by his attitude as reported to me by various news outlets who are often interested in creating interest/controversy and clicks"

Not sure how much credibility I give those attitude reports and I'd shy away from parroting those opinions. Randall was under fire last year and neither he nor the Packers released much info on his knee, shoulder and groin injuries.
If you were getting slammed relentlessly in the media ( perhaps unfairly), you might be seen as having an "attitude" too. Its tough living in a fishbowl, even tougher when you're a young player under heavy fire


I'm not judging him solely on newspaper quotes....


People who follow his social media and stuff say he's quite the.....whatever you want to insert here. Then his interviews too. I can see it. I just don't read into it.

Personally I like corners to have some swagger in them...and a short memory. So I can give Randall more or less a pass concerning his attitude. Not a big deal to me. But, saying that it is something that is more or less "made up" by the media simply isn't accurate.

That being said, I think the slot is perfect for him. I believe that if he takes to coaching and if the game slows down for him, man, he is going to be a heckuva player.


Outside of like Chris Harris Jr, off the top of my head, all the better corners these days seem to be pretty cocky and loud.

He's just trying to fit in lol
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HyponGrey


Joined: 23 Jun 2012
Posts: 3821
Location: Down the road from NFL Films
PostPosted: Thu Jun 22, 2017 1:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

NormSizedMidget wrote:
vegas492 wrote:
NormSizedMidget wrote:
vegas492 wrote:
Shanedorf wrote:
Quote:
="vegas492"
I'm a bit put off by his attitude as well.

I don't know how much time you've spent hanging out with Demarious
IF the answer is "none" then the way that sentence above should read is:

"I'm a bit put off by his attitude as reported to me by various news outlets who are often interested in creating interest/controversy and clicks"

Not sure how much credibility I give those attitude reports and I'd shy away from parroting those opinions. Randall was under fire last year and neither he nor the Packers released much info on his knee, shoulder and groin injuries.
If you were getting slammed relentlessly in the media ( perhaps unfairly), you might be seen as having an "attitude" too. Its tough living in a fishbowl, even tougher when you're a young player under heavy fire


I'm not judging him solely on newspaper quotes....


People who follow his social media and stuff say he's quite the.....whatever you want to insert here. Then his interviews too. I can see it. I just don't read into it.

Personally I like corners to have some swagger in them...and a short memory. So I can give Randall more or less a pass concerning his attitude. Not a big deal to me. But, saying that it is something that is more or less "made up" by the media simply isn't accurate.

That being said, I think the slot is perfect for him. I believe that if he takes to coaching and if the game slows down for him, man, he is going to be a heckuva player.


Outside of like Chris Harris Jr, off the top of my head, all the corners these days seem to be pretty cocky and loud.

He's just trying to fit in lol
FIFY
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NormSizedMidget


Joined: 28 Mar 2011
Posts: 17912
PostPosted: Thu Jun 22, 2017 2:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

HyponGrey wrote:
NormSizedMidget wrote:
vegas492 wrote:
NormSizedMidget wrote:
vegas492 wrote:
Shanedorf wrote:
Quote:
="vegas492"
I'm a bit put off by his attitude as well.

I don't know how much time you've spent hanging out with Demarious
IF the answer is "none" then the way that sentence above should read is:

"I'm a bit put off by his attitude as reported to me by various news outlets who are often interested in creating interest/controversy and clicks"

Not sure how much credibility I give those attitude reports and I'd shy away from parroting those opinions. Randall was under fire last year and neither he nor the Packers released much info on his knee, shoulder and groin injuries.
If you were getting slammed relentlessly in the media ( perhaps unfairly), you might be seen as having an "attitude" too. Its tough living in a fishbowl, even tougher when you're a young player under heavy fire


I'm not judging him solely on newspaper quotes....


People who follow his social media and stuff say he's quite the.....whatever you want to insert here. Then his interviews too. I can see it. I just don't read into it.

Personally I like corners to have some swagger in them...and a short memory. So I can give Randall more or less a pass concerning his attitude. Not a big deal to me. But, saying that it is something that is more or less "made up" by the media simply isn't accurate.

That being said, I think the slot is perfect for him. I believe that if he takes to coaching and if the game slows down for him, man, he is going to be a heckuva player.


Outside of like Chris Harris Jr, off the top of my head, all the corners these days seem to be pretty cocky and loud.

He's just trying to fit in lol
FIFY


It took me at too long to figure out what you changed lol
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Shanedorf


Joined: 18 Mar 2014
Posts: 1583
PostPosted: Sun Jul 09, 2017 11:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Packers gave Herb, Herb's number... Cool
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Shanedorf


Joined: 18 Mar 2014
Posts: 1583
PostPosted: Mon Jul 10, 2017 12:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

They also gave Gilbert, Gilbert's number
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Chili


Joined: 13 May 2014
Posts: 621
PostPosted: Mon Jul 10, 2017 7:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

So...what do we all make of this cryptic tweet from Randall? Think

Quote:
Damarious Randall‏Verified account
@RandallTime

Welp It's been real ...

https://twitter.com/randalltime/status/884163213482446848


Has he been traded? cut? or much ado about nothing?
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