Discuss football with over 60,000 fans. Free Membership. Join now!

 FAQFAQ  RegisterRegister   ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 

FootballsFuture.com Forum Index
FootballsFuture.com Home

Draft grade
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4  Next
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    FootballsFuture.com Forum Index -> Pittsburgh Steelers
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
MOSteelers56


Joined: 17 Jan 2008
Posts: 6573
Location: Anywheresville Missouri
PostPosted: Sun Apr 30, 2017 10:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

warfelg wrote:
MOSteelers56 wrote:
brik, I hope you're right about Warren retiring, but if he was going to retire why would he have signed his contract in February?

About the LS, I'm actually sort of excited to see him. The staff raved about him. What seperates a great long snapper from an average one? Was Warren only average? I admit to not studying opposing long snappers Laughing


From what I hear is he did it for the Steelers as a fall back. His deal IIRC was 1 year with very little to nothing guaranteed.

In that case, I actually feel a lot better for the pick. Thanks for letting me know.
_________________

Deadpulse on the sig
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
TheClocksTickin


Joined: 20 Mar 2006
Posts: 1084
PostPosted: Sun Apr 30, 2017 10:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

theironcitykid wrote:
They failed to address the needs of Safety, EDGE, CB, RB, and ILB - which are their top 5 needs.


Safety - How is safety our biggest need? We have two returning starters and we can replace Mitchell via free agency as we typically have done.

EDGE - Pretty sure Watt is an OLB. Keion Jones too.

CB - Sutton and Allen. That's 2 picks.

RB - Conner.

ILB - They're confident in Williams and are giving him a shot.

They clearly addressed needs and just because you don't like the players/value doesn't mean the FO did a poor job.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message AIM Address
TheBus36


Joined: 08 Apr 2011
Posts: 3
Location: Pittsburgh
PostPosted: Sun Apr 30, 2017 11:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

1. Watt - B. Raw but has upside

2. Juju - B+. Long term he'll be a great fit here. Martavis and Coates are idiots

3. Sutton - B. I like it.

3. Conner - C-. Great story. Two rounds too early. Will complement Bell well.

4. Dobbs - B+. Landry Jones is terrible

5. Allen - B. Lot of tools. Developmental project

6. Holba - F

7. Adams - A

Overall B-

Re-draft:
1. Kevin King CB
2. Jordan Willis OLB
3. Dede Westbrook WR
3. James Conner RB
4. Josh Dobbs QB
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
warfelg


Joined: 12 Jan 2014
Posts: 3544
Location: Richmond Va
PostPosted: Sun Apr 30, 2017 11:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

1. Watt - B+. I do like the kid. My issue with him was it felt like a reach. He does play with tenacity and is athletic. But he has so much development to go through. His specialty is the splash play right now.

2. Juju - A. I love it. I really do. He's so different from every other WR. And I think him playing with Brown is really going to help him out. He has a great work ethic. Was recruited as a safety before becoming a WR.

3. Sutton - B+. Had an early 2nd grade on this kid. He's going to be a good player.

3. Conner - B-. Just like Juju, I love this pick. He's just something different from every other RB on the roster. He's really a poor man's Bell without a propensity for liking pot.

4. Dobbs - A. Developmental QB who has a bunch to learn. But I like it. Had a 3rd round grade on him, so he was a steal at this point of the draft.

5. Allen - A-/F-. Really depends on the development. We haven't had luck on these types of guys in the draft. A- if he works out, F- for falling for the same trap if he doesn't work.

6. Holba - C-. With the whispers of Warren thinking about retirement this is a great way to ensure you have to potential replacement in house.

7. Adams - C. Odds on money that he won't be on the roster opening day. Likely last cut, first to the practice squad.

Overall B+ with a potential A- based on Watt and Dobbs development.
_________________
jebrick wrote:
Quote:
Jarvis Jones signs with Steelers


Hahahahaha.

Jones' only chance is to go to Tenn. Otherwise he is flipping burgers this fall.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
armsteeld


Joined: 02 Mar 2009
Posts: 6788
Location: In your head
PostPosted: Sun Apr 30, 2017 11:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Watt: High risk high reward type. Needs to get off blocks better and improve core strength. Hopefully injuries are thing of the past. We addressed a huge need. Tough competitor. Joey Porter clone.

Smith-Schuster; Powerful slot receiver with size and average speed. Great blocker. Strong hands and can win most one on ones. Played through some rough injuries. Tough competitor. Hines Ward clone.

Conners: Powerful. Hard to bring down by one guy. Good receiver. Good pass blocker. Good vision. Very powerful leg drive. Aggressive runner. Has ball control issues. Not going to make you miss in the open field. Below average speed like Bell (4.6). Tough competitor. Franco Harris clone.

Sutton: Solid mirror ability. Average speed for the position. Can play man or zone well. Quick feet. Attacks the football. Great punt returner. Can play Boundary, Slot, and Safety. Sticky cover guy with good feet. Tough competitor. Brent Grimes clone.

Dobbs: Leader. Throws a beautiful deep ball. Above average arm strength. Average accuracy but watch his games and his receivers failed him many times due to drops. When he misses, he misses high. He is good on inside throws. Throws to the hashes are high. For you guys who are good at watching QBs, his ball placement is good for the most part, so is it pressing that lowers his accuracy? Dobbs is able to recite PI all the way to the 74th number!!

Chieferic, I know that you're a TN fan. His only isn't good to me. What are your thoughts? Very tough. Dobbs is also faster than Le'Veon. Powerful and elusive runner. Dobbs almost broke HOF Payton Manning's pasing records. When I watch Dobbs, I see a faster but less accurate Dak Prescott. Watch Dak while at MS ST and Dobbs at TN and see how they are the better players on the field for their teams. Tough competitor. Kordell Stewart clone.

Allen: Big.Fast. Has some route recognition due to being a former WR. His height and reach will an issue of receivers. I'm going to look for more games because not much out there on him. Raw at the position and lacks experience. H/W/S project that with proper coaching can be a weapon. No clone yet.

Hobla: Warren is retiring. Supposedly, he asked the Steelers to find his replacement. If true, then this pick makes way more sense in value and position. Lance Zierlein thinks highly of him. No clone yet.

Adams: Energy rusher. Can put together two or three pass rushes at a time. Loves to use speed rush and dip under but has a nasty spin move. Inconsistent player. Doesn't use technique all the time. Can set the edge well when he uses technique but too often gets easily washed. Needs a couple years training with Deebo. First step is impressive. Clark Haggans clone.

Overall, I give this draft a B+.
You get a potential starter/rotational player at OLB plus he contributes as ST. You have a starting WR who is a good blocker. You get a backup or situational RB. You get a starting Punt Returner or CB/Slot defender. You get a backup that will possibly be the number 2 but no worse than number 3 QB. You get a developmental CB with huge upside and possible ST ace. You get a starting snapper. You also get a pass rusher to groom who has some skills getting after the QB. We had 8 picks and get potentially 4 starters and others who can contribute year one. Yes I didn't get some guys I like but this draft was a success!
_________________




"Sheep follow the flock for direction and security but scatter at the sight of the lone wolf". Rocky
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
mwalker


Joined: 28 Mar 2009
Posts: 675
PostPosted: Sun Apr 30, 2017 12:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I will admit I don't personally love this draft. I too felt like we reached just about everywhere except Schuster and Dobbs and just don't believe we needed a WR that high.

But.

I think this will come down to a few players; Watt and Sutton.

If Watt's injury history - stays history - and he lives up to the hype.
If Sutton becomes a starter type in two years, this will end up a solid class.

That's kind of what frustrates me as well though. I thought it was just such a primarily depth draft approach otherwise. And I hate to say it, but the Ravens killed another one. They might have just rebuilt their defense in this draft. Cleveland, Cincy, also both had strong drafts with a lot of talent.

On one hand you could say another typical Steelers draft, not sexy but solid, but again, I think we left some better players out there.

I was really hoping Hodges and D.King would be late round pick ups. I think they'll both be solid players, but I'm sure we all had our favorites passed over. I don't think Schuster was a planned pick, I think the CB board fell unfavorably. Now, there were still players I liked there, but.

So I'm going to say B-. If Watt blows up, maybe I'll feel better, but I still think we need a significant upgrade in our defensive backfield, and that's what disappoints me most.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
1BackInBlackFan


Joined: 29 Mar 2010
Posts: 11341
Location: BACK 2 BACK!!!!, PA
PostPosted: Sun Apr 30, 2017 12:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I give it a C- and I'm being kind.

My main worry about Watt is the injury history. However, he has a terrific work ethic and attitude. He's an athletic freak. He's raw but considering he had 11.5 sacks in his first year at OLB his potential is sky high.

I never thought WR was a big need especially on Day 2. Another concern is the lack of production USC WRs have recently had in the NFL. I do like his physicality. The Steelers haven't had that since Ward. The Steelers like young players and he is only 20. He will be the youngest player in the NFL. Maturity issues but like I said he is only 20. Hopefully the comparisons to Anquan Boldin are correct. Competition is good though and there will be a lot of it at that position in the preseason.

I don't mind Sutton. I would have prefered Tankersely. The Steelers get some depth at CB. I also like that he is the all-time leader at Tennessee at passes defended. Plus he can return punts. Career average of 14.9 yards and three TDs. Tons of starting experience.

I wanted Conner for the Steelers. However, in my mock drafts I picked in the fifth. Round three is way too early. They mentioned that he will contribute on special teams. He did play some DE at Pitt. He's really physical. We all know his great story and his attitude is excellent. This past season he was more active in the passing game.

I don't like the Dobbs pick at all. I see him being another Tee Martin. I don't envision him being the heir to Ben. When is he actually going to contribute? Not any time soon.

Allen is worth a shot. He's got the longest arms of any CB in the draft. Unfortunately the Steelers haven't been able to develop late round CBs.

A few years ago the Steelers drafted a WR in the sixth round who will wind up being the greatest WR ever in team history. Also in New England the Pats drafted a QB who will be the greatest ever. Absolutely no reason at all to draft a freaking long snapper. No other team did and only ONE team signed an UDFA LS. Needless to say they could have easily waited and got him as an UDFA. Hell, he even said he was surprised to be drafted. Horrendous pick. So what if Warren is retiring? No other grade than a F. Oh and they already signed a LS during the offseason named Kameron Canaday.

Jones is fine as a 7th rounder.

Way too many reaches for my liking in this draft. The other teams in the division easily did better on paper but the game isn't played on paper and I sure hope all of these guys contribute to get the franchise their 7th Super Bowl title.
_________________


Thanks to UniversalAuthor for the Sidney Crosby sig
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
DudeWhat??


Joined: 01 Dec 2010
Posts: 986
PostPosted: Sun Apr 30, 2017 12:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

C-

Round 1. horrible pick...not TJ..i actually like him. The fact that Foster was on the boards makes this a D-/F pick...You have two options and two options only...pick foster and trade down...foster being their gives you power...i would have taken that trade san fran was pushing..im sure they offered. pick foster or hold him for ransom. foster king baker or trade.

r2. Eli rogers does not need to be replaced..its that simple. Bryant is back and even if he fails we need to stop pretending like coates didn't play with an injured hand, that Ayers didn't show promise, same for hamilton. All three of them have shown as much promise as sammy watktins with limited time and injuries...especially when you factor in their draft rounds and so on. F grade. Witherspoon, Ahkello is the pick here or williams

r3. i like cam..physical CB...return ability a plus... could have been better CBs available .... rasual and cordrea might be better....olb trey was their also ....grade C

r3b. i get it...change of pace bruiser...maybe a little too high..hard to tell ...B/c+



r4. dobbs is a great pick here... B+/A


r5. i like it ...interesting but bucky hodges should have been the pick here F

r6. long snapper...i mean...okay C

r7 good depth B


i trust our staff.
_________________
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
warfelg


Joined: 12 Jan 2014
Posts: 3544
Location: Richmond Va
PostPosted: Sun Apr 30, 2017 1:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

To all the people knocking the TJ Watt pick because Foster was still there:

Foster was not on the Steelers draft boards. They had multiple red flags on him. Of which were:
~Multiple failed drug tests
~Anger management
~Ran with bad crowds off the field
~Injury, shoulder, was supposedly flagged as "high risk arthritic" at the combine.

They summarized that if he made it past 5 years in the NFL he further than they anticipated.
_________________
jebrick wrote:
Quote:
Jarvis Jones signs with Steelers


Hahahahaha.

Jones' only chance is to go to Tenn. Otherwise he is flipping burgers this fall.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
DudeWhat??


Joined: 01 Dec 2010
Posts: 986
PostPosted: Sun Apr 30, 2017 2:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

warfelg wrote:
To all the people knocking the TJ Watt pick because Foster was still there:

Foster was not on the Steelers draft boards. They had multiple red flags on him. Of which were:
~Multiple failed drug tests
~Anger management
~Ran with bad crowds off the field
~Injury, shoulder, was supposedly flagged as "high risk arthritic" at the combine.

They summarized that if he made it past 5 years in the NFL he further than they anticipated.


doesn't matter what our team thinks of them...it matters what other teams were willing to trade up for him...san fran gave a 34 for a 32..they would have done it for a 31 also..other teams were interested too..tj watt still there at 34? highly likely.
_________________
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Ward4HOF


Joined: 11 Apr 2011
Posts: 5137
PostPosted: Sun Apr 30, 2017 3:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Chieferific wrote:
I'm not real good at giving grades but there were so many "mistakes" made in this draft IMO. Obviously the Steelers stuck to their board and are more than likely happy with the results.

But I do think this braintrust has zero ability to get a sense of what the rest of the league is thinking as they routinely take players higher than what MOST have them ranked. I don't know if it's because they are scared the player won't last or what. But it happens a lot. As for the players...



How do you know?? Do you have insight into other teams' Boards? I just posted an entire thread about the media rankings, because that is the only information any of us has?? Even if one or two posters here have an 'in' with the Steelers' FO, no one has any idea what the rest of the league is thinking. What makes you so confident in your assertion?

Because honestly, I'd say it's the exact opposite. As was evidenced this year-- Rds 1, 3C, and 5-- and in 2016/15--Rds 2 and 7/2 and 6--other teams traded specifically in front of us. So even if you are right, the rest of the league definitely does not believe this, since they always trade into the pick right in front of us.

Anyway, I give this draft an overall B-.

1. Watt: A- , Great pick at a position of need for a guy mocked consistently ahead of us the week prior, as I stated in my other thread about Media rankings.

2. Smith-Schuster: A , Love, Love, Love this pick the more I research about this guy. A few inches taller and a couple lbs heavier than my 'beloved' Ward when he came out, but I think we all recognize that Ward probably played closer to 220. Anyway, similar size/speed/heart prospect, who loves to block. My kind of WR. Compared often to Anquan, which is high praise; hopefully lives up to that level.

3. Cameron Sutton: B- , Too many 'weaknesses' not enough 'strengths'. Miniscule hands and Short arms are going to, and already have, hurt his ability to support the run/tackle. Not a speed demon, either, just average weight/height/below average Vertical. But, apparently, very 'sticky' in coverage, so that's a plus. Overall, a very 'meh' pick.

3C. James Conner: C+ , Very tough to grade, but from a pure football standpoint, taking all the emotion out of it, and basing it solely on what I believe his impact will be to this team, and the value of where he was picked, and the position he was picked, Id give it a C+. I will change this to an A if he is finally the guy that can break through and get that last tough yard for a TD; that hurt us all season, and absolutely killed us in the AFC Championship game, and would have changed the entire dynamic had we scored that TD in the 2nd Qtr; we score that, and I think we win, or come darn close. That said, Im very glad they picked him; its a good team image, IMO, and to bring in a high-character guy with his story, makes me proud to be a Steeler fan.

4. Joshua Dobbs: B , Im glad we finally have a QB, who I believe, will be our #2 by the end of the season. Lets look at all the attributes Dobbs has over Jones, who, BTW, Ive read, AND watched non-Pittsburgh media analysts over the last couple of days who think Jones is the worst #2 in the league, or close to it. So, Dobbs is smart, athletic, and as Ive mentioned, doesnt wet his pants at the first sign of pressure (thus throwing the ball in the dirt, or just awayno chance for completion once hes under pressure). Dobbs needs a lot of work, though, and I dont believe hes our heir apparent to Ben, hence the B grade and not an 'A'.

5. Brian Allen: C+ , I know many here are excited about this pick, but I simply am not. Hes a WR-convert in a FS body, being asked to play cover-corner. Im not sure this is going to work out. For anyone who thinks hes our FS of the future, well, I hope you are thinking 3 years in the future, because he has a loooong way to go to get there, and hope they just keep him at CB, and let him develop there.

6. Colin Holba: D , Only reason its not an F is because we actually need a LS, since ours is 36 years old, and we have been unsuccessful over the past few years in trying to bring one in as an UDFA, so Im trusting that Colbert/Tomlin see something special in this kid, and hell shore up our LS position for the next decade. If that is the case, then at least I can understand it, but still, as a fan, cant stand spending a pick on one.

7. Keion Adams: A , This one, Im excited about. Hes been rising up boards all season, and this gives us a 2nd OLB prospect. Hes bulked up enough, as well, which tells me hell be able to hold some weight. What Ive read is that he was 230 going into this season, and he is now 62, 247lbs, which is a great size, IMO. He wasnt a Combine invite, so have no idea how long his arms are, which may be telling on what his ceiling might be. Overall though, Keion is one of my favorite 7th Rd picks weve had in some time; right up there with Matakevich. I was really excited about him as well.


So, not sure if actually added up and divided, if those actually equal a B- (Range of 2.8 3.0 on a 4.0 scale), but figured it would be close.
_________________
DMG wrote:
No. Ben's good, but he isn't one of the all-time greats.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Chieferific


Joined: 24 Feb 2006
Posts: 4875
PostPosted: Sun Apr 30, 2017 4:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ward4HOF wrote:
Chieferific wrote:
I'm not real good at giving grades but there were so many "mistakes" made in this draft IMO. Obviously the Steelers stuck to their board and are more than likely happy with the results.

But I do think this braintrust has zero ability to get a sense of what the rest of the league is thinking as they routinely take players higher than what MOST have them ranked. I don't know if it's because they are scared the player won't last or what. But it happens a lot. As for the players...



How do you know?? Do you have insight into other teams' Boards? I just posted an entire thread about the media rankings, because that is the only information any of us has?? Even if one or two posters here have an 'in' with the Steelers' FO, no one has any idea what the rest of the league is thinking. What makes you so confident in your assertion?

Because honestly, I'd say it's the exact opposite. As was evidenced this year-- Rds 1, 3C, and 5-- and in 2016/15--Rds 2 and 7/2 and 6--other teams traded specifically in front of us. So even if you are right, the rest of the league definitely does not believe this, since they always trade into the pick right in front of us.

Well I don't "know" that's why I said I "think". I don't understand your "exact opposite" explanation. As I see it, if there is a player you covet you need to do your best to figure out if any other teams covet that player and do what you need to do to ensure you secure that player. If there is a team behind you that you think wants this player, move up 2 to get him. If there is a player that a team ahead of you may want, move up a couple to get in front of them and get him. Again, I have no idea if the Steelers have lost a player to another team due to staying put. The odds are they have imo, whether they admit it or not.
_________________

warfelg wrote:
Quote:
why does KC have Houston (who is returning from a knee) cover AB on a crucial play? THAT makes no sense

They Butlered themselves. Laughing
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
jebrick


Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 10135
Location: Indianapolis
PostPosted: Mon May 01, 2017 8:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

mwalker wrote:


That's kind of what frustrates me as well though. I thought it was just such a primarily depth draft approach otherwise. And I hate to say it, but the Ravens killed another one. They might have just rebuilt their defense in this draft. Cleveland, Cincy, also both had strong drafts with a lot of talent.



The rest of the AFC North drafted at least 15 picks before the Steelers. Two of the teams were picking 20+ picks before the Steelers. Where you pick makers a big difference on your choice of players.
_________________

"You build with draft choices. You find people with talents adaptable to your plans and then you teach them to do things the way we do them." - Chuck Noll
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
warfelg


Joined: 12 Jan 2014
Posts: 3544
Location: Richmond Va
PostPosted: Mon May 01, 2017 10:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

DudeWhat?? wrote:
warfelg wrote:
To all the people knocking the TJ Watt pick because Foster was still there:

Foster was not on the Steelers draft boards. They had multiple red flags on him. Of which were:
~Multiple failed drug tests
~Anger management
~Ran with bad crowds off the field
~Injury, shoulder, was supposedly flagged as "high risk arthritic" at the combine.

They summarized that if he made it past 5 years in the NFL he further than they anticipated.


doesn't matter what our team thinks of them...it matters what other teams were willing to trade up for him...san fran gave a 34 for a 32..they would have done it for a 31 also..other teams were interested too..tj watt still there at 34? highly likely.


For the bolded.....what? How does what the team think not matter.

For the italicized....As much as I wanted a trade down we don't know who did or didn't call us and what they did or didn't offer.
_________________
jebrick wrote:
Quote:
Jarvis Jones signs with Steelers


Hahahahaha.

Jones' only chance is to go to Tenn. Otherwise he is flipping burgers this fall.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
oksteeler


Joined: 09 May 2014
Posts: 93
Location: broken arrow,ok
PostPosted: Mon May 01, 2017 11:33 am    Post subject: reply Reply with quote

The draft is being sold as a "fan experience" and so every draft grade and critique is fair game, so here's mine:

The overall draft was not an immediate impact draft. We failed at trading down in the first, when we should have and probably could have, so we could take an injury flagged player. I like Watt but Willis was also available and a 4-7 spot trade down would have netted an extra pick. C+

JuJu was a solid pick IF he can become the #2 or #3 receiver THIS year.

Sutton good pick, but not a boundary corner. I realize that we don't want another rookie starting on the boundary THIS year (3 youngsters in one secondary spells toast), but he isn't even the right frame to become a solid boundary corner??

Conner ?? when did we make the draft into a chick flick? this was just a feel good pick, a good player drafted 2 rounds too high with better players available.

Dobbs might become our new long term backup, but he played in the weak side of the SEC on a talented team and couldn't win.

Allen is a good pick IF they can keep him and develop him. I don't want to see him become a star for someone else because we have too many corners on the roster now.

long snapper????

Adams good value for a guy that we hope will develop for us.

missed out on..
Kevin King
Desmond King
Bucky Hodges
Samaje Perine
Wayne Gallman
James Willis
etc.




Overall too many players that look to contribute possibly in 2-3 years. Why so many projects? The Big Ben is a ticking clock of retirement and this wasn't the draft that has us thinking we just caught up with the Pats.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   

Post new topic   Reply to topic    FootballsFuture.com Forum Index -> Pittsburgh Steelers All times are GMT - 4 Hours
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4  Next
Page 2 of 4

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum




Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group