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The Annual "Review/Grade the Draft Class" Thread
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Bobby816


Joined: 21 Sep 2013
Posts: 8923
PostPosted: Tue May 02, 2017 9:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jetsfandan423 wrote:
Rockice_8 wrote:
That's not even a question. You take the QB and worry about it later. Guys like Bradford get traded for 1st rounders so if both pan out we'll be alright moving forward.




Not only that, but think of how tough it is to even be in the position to draft a franchise QB. Remember how we missed out on Mariota and Winston in 2015? If we can draft a franchise QB, even if Hack shows promise, then we should do it.

Completely disagree. If Hack shows he can be the starter after this next season, you don't waste a 1st Round pick on a qb. Spend a mid round pick on one? Sure. You don't build a team by drafting reinforcements and creating competition. Not in the 1st 2-3 rounds atleast. You draft impact starters in Rounds 1 and 2. And if Hack plays good enough to be the starter then using a high pick on a qb is crappy team building. But you know what?.... it would be us the team that hasn't had a franchise qb in forvever and finally have a base to build a team around, to even screw that up.
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ekill08x


Joined: 05 Oct 2005
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Location: Bayport, New York
PostPosted: Wed May 03, 2017 2:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

KingOfTheDot wrote:
ekill08x wrote:
KingOfTheDot wrote:
Jetsfandan423 wrote:
Rockice_8 wrote:
That's not even a question. You take the QB and worry about it later. Guys like Bradford get traded for 1st rounders so if both pan out we'll be alright moving forward.




Not only that, but think of how tough it is to even be in the position to draft a franchise QB. Remember how we missed out on Mariota and Winston in 2015? If we can draft a franchise QB, even if Hack shows promise, then we should do it.


That's why I put those numbers. If I put average numbers like 2500 yards, 1:1 TD:INT ratio and 55% completion of course you go for the QB.

In the case I presented before I'd either trade back for a monster haul and if I don't get that then I take the QB and go from there.

Only thing is it may cost us a Franchise Left Tackle or EDGE in the process.


I am a big believer in trading down, when you get the correct value. So even if hack put up 4000 30/12 63% I am taking a QB. Mac would trade down to the bottom of the 1st and acquire a 4 and 6 and gloat about how he got more picks to fill the roster and that there just wasn't enough value at #1 overall.


Laughing Laughing Laughing okay that was actually funny


LOL unfortunately its kind of sad too. Mac left me with little faith in him with the way he handled this draft so I am a bit sour on him right now.

As far as Hackenberg goes, I want to like him, and I think in the Giants game there was a lot of good tape. In the Eagles game he was almost always under pressure and it was just an awful showing all the way around so its hard to judge him thus far. He has to really make the most of his reps in camp and show he can run this offense. Hes got the IQ and a fantastic arm, but accuracy is the most important attribute. I really hope this kid shows us something this summer. He has too much potential to absolutely suck. Not to mention it would be so sweet if he completely dominates and proves everyone wrong who went by here say and never even saw him take a snap in practice. Also...its PRACTICE. Either way I dont want McCown starting. Let him collect his 6 million to mentor...playing him literally does NOTHING for this team.
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doumeyer


Joined: 03 Jul 2013
Posts: 2208
PostPosted: Wed May 03, 2017 3:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ekill08x wrote:
KingOfTheDot wrote:
ekill08x wrote:
KingOfTheDot wrote:
Jetsfandan423 wrote:
Rockice_8 wrote:
That's not even a question. You take the QB and worry about it later. Guys like Bradford get traded for 1st rounders so if both pan out we'll be alright moving forward.




Not only that, but think of how tough it is to even be in the position to draft a franchise QB. Remember how we missed out on Mariota and Winston in 2015? If we can draft a franchise QB, even if Hack shows promise, then we should do it.


That's why I put those numbers. If I put average numbers like 2500 yards, 1:1 TD:INT ratio and 55% completion of course you go for the QB.

In the case I presented before I'd either trade back for a monster haul and if I don't get that then I take the QB and go from there.

Only thing is it may cost us a Franchise Left Tackle or EDGE in the process.


I am a big believer in trading down, when you get the correct value. So even if hack put up 4000 30/12 63% I am taking a QB. Mac would trade down to the bottom of the 1st and acquire a 4 and 6 and gloat about how he got more picks to fill the roster and that there just wasn't enough value at #1 overall.


Laughing Laughing Laughing okay that was actually funny


LOL unfortunately its kind of sad too. Mac left me with little faith in him with the way he handled this draft so I am a bit sour on him right now.

As far as Hackenberg goes, I want to like him, and I think in the Giants game there was a lot of good tape. In the Eagles game he was almost always under pressure and it was just an awful showing all the way around so its hard to judge him thus far. He has to really make the most of his reps in camp and show he can run this offense. Hes got the IQ and a fantastic arm, but accuracy is the most important attribute. I really hope this kid shows us something this summer. He has too much potential to absolutely suck. Not to mention it would be so sweet if he completely dominates and proves everyone wrong who went by here say and never even saw him take a snap in practice. Also...its PRACTICE. Either way I dont want McCown starting. Let him collect his 6 million to mentor...playing him literally does NOTHING for this team.
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doumeyer


Joined: 03 Jul 2013
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PostPosted: Wed May 03, 2017 3:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

doumeyer wrote:
ekill08x wrote:
KingOfTheDot wrote:
ekill08x wrote:
KingOfTheDot wrote:
Jetsfandan423 wrote:
Rockice_8 wrote:
That's not even a question. You take the QB and worry about it later. Guys like Bradford get traded for 1st rounders so if both pan out we'll be alright moving forward.




Not only that, but think of how tough it is to even be in the position to draft a franchise QB. Remember how we missed out on Mariota and Winston in 2015? If we can draft a franchise QB, even if Hack shows promise, then we should do it.


That's why I put those numbers. If I put average numbers like 2500 yards, 1:1 TD:INT ratio and 55% completion of course you go for the QB.

In the case I presented before I'd either trade back for a monster haul and if I don't get that then I take the QB and go from there.

Only thing is it may cost us a Franchise Left Tackle or EDGE in the process.


I am a big believer in trading down, when you get the correct value. So even if hack put up 4000 30/12 63% I am taking a QB. Mac would trade down to the bottom of the 1st and acquire a 4 and 6 and gloat about how he got more picks to fill the roster and that there just wasn't enough value at #1 overall.


Laughing Laughing Laughing okay that was actually funny


LOL unfortunately its kind of sad too. Mac left me with little faith in him with the way he handled this draft so I am a bit sour on him right now.

As far as Hackenberg goes, I want to like him, and I think in the Giants game there was a lot of good tape. In the Eagles game he was almost always under pressure and it was just an awful showing all the way around so its hard to judge him thus far. He has to really make the most of his reps in camp and show he can run this offense. Hes got the IQ and a fantastic arm, but accuracy is the most important attribute. I really hope this kid shows us something this summer. He has too much potential to absolutely suck. Not to mention it would be so sweet if he completely dominates and proves everyone wrong who went by here say and never even saw him take a snap in practice. Also...its PRACTICE. Either way I dont want McCown starting. Let him collect his 6 million to mentor...playing him literally does NOTHING for this team.


That is my thoughts exactly, sure don't want to see a 39 year old QB get a lot of playing time, we wasted two year with Fitz & don't want to go through that again. LET THE YOUONG GUYS PLAY.
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Jetsfandan423


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PostPosted: Wed May 03, 2017 10:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bobby816 wrote:
Jetsfandan423 wrote:
Rockice_8 wrote:
That's not even a question. You take the QB and worry about it later. Guys like Bradford get traded for 1st rounders so if both pan out we'll be alright moving forward.




Not only that, but think of how tough it is to even be in the position to draft a franchise QB. Remember how we missed out on Mariota and Winston in 2015? If we can draft a franchise QB, even if Hack shows promise, then we should do it.

Completely disagree. If Hack shows he can be the starter after this next season, you don't waste a 1st Round pick on a qb. Spend a mid round pick on one? Sure. You don't build a team by drafting reinforcements and creating competition. Not in the 1st 2-3 rounds atleast. You draft impact starters in Rounds 1 and 2. And if Hack plays good enough to be the starter then using a high pick on a qb is crappy team building. But you know what?.... it would be us the team that hasn't had a franchise qb in forvever and finally have a base to build a team around, to even screw that up.




There's always a chance that players regress, for whatever reason. A small sample of Hack not sucking will never be enough for me to say he is our guy. If we can draft a franchise QB next year we need to do it.
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Rockice_8


Joined: 05 Oct 2010
Posts: 4168
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PostPosted: Wed May 03, 2017 10:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bobby816 wrote:
Jetsfandan423 wrote:
Rockice_8 wrote:
That's not even a question. You take the QB and worry about it later. Guys like Bradford get traded for 1st rounders so if both pan out we'll be alright moving forward.




Not only that, but think of how tough it is to even be in the position to draft a franchise QB. Remember how we missed out on Mariota and Winston in 2015? If we can draft a franchise QB, even if Hack shows promise, then we should do it.

Completely disagree. If Hack shows he can be the starter after this next season, you don't waste a 1st Round pick on a qb. Spend a mid round pick on one? Sure. You don't build a team by drafting reinforcements and creating competition. Not in the 1st 2-3 rounds atleast. You draft impact starters in Rounds 1 and 2. And if Hack plays good enough to be the starter then using a high pick on a qb is crappy team building. But you know what?.... it would be us the team that hasn't had a franchise qb in forvever and finally have a base to build a team around, to even screw that up.


If we have #1 and Darold lives up to the hype as the next great QB then you have to take him, it's not even an option. We have lacked a franchise QB for decades and you may want to pass on one because Hack had a good season. I mean Hack would have to do something nearly impossible to not draft Darold.

If Hack throws for close to 4k yards with 60%+ comp and 35+ TD's with like 10 INTs maybe you feel comfortable enough to say he's the guy but if it's a Wentz type season where you see flashes that he could be the guy but aren't 100% sold you would be out of your mind to pass just because Hack flashed a bit. Something like around 3,500 yards, 60%+ and 18 TD's and 15 INT's.

Sure Hack could be the guy but if he just stays average Flacco like and Darold becomes the next star QB you would be run out of town.

So now lets be honest here. We all know he's not putting up top 5 QB numbers next year so again, if Darold proves he's that type of prospect then you run to the podium with that card and deal with it later.

I can't believe people would even consider not taking a possible franchise QB if he's on the board.
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jetfuel


Joined: 19 Sep 2008
Posts: 1900
PostPosted: Wed May 03, 2017 11:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rockice_8 wrote:
Bobby816 wrote:
Jetsfandan423 wrote:
Rockice_8 wrote:
That's not even a question. You take the QB and worry about it later. Guys like Bradford get traded for 1st rounders so if both pan out we'll be alright moving forward.




Not only that, but think of how tough it is to even be in the position to draft a franchise QB. Remember how we missed out on Mariota and Winston in 2015? If we can draft a franchise QB, even if Hack shows promise, then we should do it.

Completely disagree. If Hack shows he can be the starter after this next season, you don't waste a 1st Round pick on a qb. Spend a mid round pick on one? Sure. You don't build a team by drafting reinforcements and creating competition. Not in the 1st 2-3 rounds atleast. You draft impact starters in

Rounds 1 and 2. And if Hack plays good enough to be the starter then using a high pick on a qb is crappy team building. But you know what?.... it would be us the team that hasn't had a franchise qb in forvever and finally have a base to build a team around, to even screw that up.


If we have #1 and Darold lives up to the hype as the next great QB then you have to take him, it's not even an option. We have lacked a franchise QB for decades and you may want to pass on one because Hack had a good season. I mean Hack would have to do something nearly impossible to not draft Darold.

If Hack throws for close to 4k yards with 60%+ comp and 35+ TD's with like 10 INTs maybe you feel comfortable enough to say he's the guy but if it's a Wentz type season where you see flashes that he could be the guy but aren't 100% sold you would be out of your mind to pass just because Hack flashed a bit. Something like around 3,500 yards, 60%+ and 18 TD's and 15 INT's.

Sure Hack could be the guy but if he just stays average Flacco like and Darold becomes the next star QB you would be run out of town.

So now lets be honest here. We all know he's not putting up top 5 QB numbers next year so again, if Darold proves he's that type of prospect then you run to the podium with that card and deal with it later.

I can't believe people would even consider not taking a possible franchise QB if he's on the board.


This conversation makes zero sense. If Hack plays really well then we will not have a high draft pick top 10 to even think about getting a QB.
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Bobby816


Joined: 21 Sep 2013
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PostPosted: Wed May 03, 2017 11:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jetsfandan423 wrote:
Bobby816 wrote:
Jetsfandan423 wrote:
Rockice_8 wrote:
That's not even a question. You take the QB and worry about it later. Guys like Bradford get traded for 1st rounders so if both pan out we'll be alright moving forward.




Not only that, but think of how tough it is to even be in the position to draft a franchise QB. Remember how we missed out on Mariota and Winston in 2015? If we can draft a franchise QB, even if Hack shows promise, then we should do it.

Completely disagree. If Hack shows he can be the starter after this next season, you don't waste a 1st Round pick on a qb. Spend a mid round pick on one? Sure. You don't build a team by drafting reinforcements and creating competition. Not in the 1st 2-3 rounds atleast. You draft impact starters in Rounds 1 and 2. And if Hack plays good enough to be the starter then using a high pick on a qb is crappy team building. But you know what?.... it would be us the team that hasn't had a franchise qb in forvever and finally have a base to build a team around, to even screw that up.




There's always a chance that players regress, for whatever reason. A small sample of Hack not sucking will never be enough for me to say he is our guy. If we can draft a franchise QB next year we need to do it.

I feel like this is a moot point. If Hack plays well enough to be our guy going forward, than we wont be in the top 3 of the draft. So I'd require a trade up to get a QB more than likely. At that point do we really want to be given up future picks for in essence a backup QB?

I think we as a fan base should be cheering for Hack and hoping he's the answer. It seems like most on here have either written him off already (which is laughable) or already think he wont be any good when given the chance. I still stand by that he's better than any QB in this last draft class. I also feel like we every single year talk about how good the next years crop of QBs are, and when it comes to the pre draft process everyone comes back down to earth. It was more than a couple years ago people loved Hack as a prospect on here while he was still at PSU.
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GangGreen420


Joined: 17 Nov 2008
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PostPosted: Wed May 03, 2017 12:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I hope to god this kid has seen the field by week 8. This Hackenberg thing has been beaten to death, brought back to life, and beaten to death again.
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Rickjets2007


Joined: 24 Jan 2008
Posts: 615
PostPosted: Wed May 03, 2017 1:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

K-Ro 25 wrote:
C-.

I don't like how we executed trading down for more 6th round picks. The talent level of an UDFA is on the same tier. The key is to grab 2nd/3rd rounders. Even 4ths. Anything after a 4, the talent drops off a tier.


Most years I would agree with you. Late round talent rarely makes an impact on the team, let alone make the team. But, this year I feel is different. This year, the theme of this draft was that it was very deep. It was supposed to be the deepest in years.

Years ago the draft was alot longer. If I remember correctly it was 12 rounds. If you were a lucky team you can find a hidden gem even in the late rounds.

Anyways, I think this draft grade is yet to be determined. We need to wait and pick this discussion up in a few years. The best thing you can have in any draft, is a ton of picks. The more chances at the slot machine, the better.
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Jetsfandan423


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PostPosted: Wed May 03, 2017 3:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bobby816 wrote:
Jetsfandan423 wrote:
Bobby816 wrote:
Jetsfandan423 wrote:
Rockice_8 wrote:
That's not even a question. You take the QB and worry about it later. Guys like Bradford get traded for 1st rounders so if both pan out we'll be alright moving forward.




Not only that, but think of how tough it is to even be in the position to draft a franchise QB. Remember how we missed out on Mariota and Winston in 2015? If we can draft a franchise QB, even if Hack shows promise, then we should do it.

Completely disagree. If Hack shows he can be the starter after this next season, you don't waste a 1st Round pick on a qb. Spend a mid round pick on one? Sure. You don't build a team by drafting reinforcements and creating competition. Not in the 1st 2-3 rounds atleast. You draft impact starters in Rounds 1 and 2. And if Hack plays good enough to be the starter then using a high pick on a qb is crappy team building. But you know what?.... it would be us the team that hasn't had a franchise qb in forvever and finally have a base to build a team around, to even screw that up.




There's always a chance that players regress, for whatever reason. A small sample of Hack not sucking will never be enough for me to say he is our guy. If we can draft a franchise QB next year we need to do it.

I feel like this is a moot point. If Hack plays well enough to be our guy going forward, than we wont be in the top 3 of the draft. So I'd require a trade up to get a QB more than likely. At that point do we really want to be given up future picks for in essence a backup QB?




Even if Hack comes in and plays decent, I still expect us to have a top 5 pick. This is a rebuild, we aren't going to win a lot of games next year. Our roster still has a lot of holes. I am optimistic but I'm also being a realist. IMO we should be in position to draft one of the top 4 or 5 QBs in next year's draft.
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KingOfTheDot


Joined: 15 Oct 2013
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PostPosted: Wed May 03, 2017 5:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jetsfandan423 wrote:
Bobby816 wrote:
Jetsfandan423 wrote:
Bobby816 wrote:
Jetsfandan423 wrote:
Rockice_8 wrote:
That's not even a question. You take the QB and worry about it later. Guys like Bradford get traded for 1st rounders so if both pan out we'll be alright moving forward.




Not only that, but think of how tough it is to even be in the position to draft a franchise QB. Remember how we missed out on Mariota and Winston in 2015? If we can draft a franchise QB, even if Hack shows promise, then we should do it.

Completely disagree. If Hack shows he can be the starter after this next season, you don't waste a 1st Round pick on a qb. Spend a mid round pick on one? Sure. You don't build a team by drafting reinforcements and creating competition. Not in the 1st 2-3 rounds atleast. You draft impact starters in Rounds 1 and 2. And if Hack plays good enough to be the starter then using a high pick on a qb is crappy team building. But you know what?.... it would be us the team that hasn't had a franchise qb in forvever and finally have a base to build a team around, to even screw that up.




There's always a chance that players regress, for whatever reason. A small sample of Hack not sucking will never be enough for me to say he is our guy. If we can draft a franchise QB next year we need to do it.

I feel like this is a moot point. If Hack plays well enough to be our guy going forward, than we wont be in the top 3 of the draft. So I'd require a trade up to get a QB more than likely. At that point do we really want to be given up future picks for in essence a backup QB?




Even if Hack comes in and plays decent, I still expect us to have a top 5 pick. This is a rebuild, we aren't going to win a lot of games next year. Our roster still has a lot of holes. I am optimistic but I'm also being a realist. IMO we should be in position to draft one of the top 4 or 5 QBs in next year's draft.


For as many holes as we have we do have potential players who can fill those voids. That's the thing I'm watching for.

We lack

Quarterback
Edge rushers
Tight End threats
Cover Corners
Safety play

We can actually fill each of those voids potentially this year though I'm not too high on on edge rushers to be honest. Even the O-Line can show some growth if we don't have to start a league high 10 different Linemen again.

There's questions on this roster but dammit there may be answers too.
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doumeyer


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PostPosted: Wed May 03, 2017 5:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

GangGreen420 wrote:
I hope to god this kid has seen the field by week 8. This Hackenberg thing has been beaten to death, brought back to life, and beaten to death again.


You think I am going to watch seven games with a 39 year old QB you better think again. And I better not hear that clown Bowles say " he gives us the best chance to win".
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ekill08x


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PostPosted: Wed May 03, 2017 5:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

doumeyer wrote:
GangGreen420 wrote:
I hope to god this kid has seen the field by week 8. This Hackenberg thing has been beaten to death, brought back to life, and beaten to death again.


You think I am going to watch seven games with a 39 year old QB you better think again. And I better not hear that clown Bowles say " he gives us the best chance to win".


Yeah I'll officially stop watching this team. If McCown gives us the best chance to win than Mac should get fired for drafting two QBs who are actually worse.
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Bobby816


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PostPosted: Wed May 03, 2017 5:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jetsfandan423 wrote:
Bobby816 wrote:
Jetsfandan423 wrote:
Bobby816 wrote:
Jetsfandan423 wrote:
Rockice_8 wrote:
That's not even a question. You take the QB and worry about it later. Guys like Bradford get traded for 1st rounders so if both pan out we'll be alright moving forward.




Not only that, but think of how tough it is to even be in the position to draft a franchise QB. Remember how we missed out on Mariota and Winston in 2015? If we can draft a franchise QB, even if Hack shows promise, then we should do it.

Completely disagree. If Hack shows he can be the starter after this next season, you don't waste a 1st Round pick on a qb. Spend a mid round pick on one? Sure. You don't build a team by drafting reinforcements and creating competition. Not in the 1st 2-3 rounds atleast. You draft impact starters in Rounds 1 and 2. And if Hack plays good enough to be the starter then using a high pick on a qb is crappy team building. But you know what?.... it would be us the team that hasn't had a franchise qb in forvever and finally have a base to build a team around, to even screw that up.




There's always a chance that players regress, for whatever reason. A small sample of Hack not sucking will never be enough for me to say he is our guy. If we can draft a franchise QB next year we need to do it.

I feel like this is a moot point. If Hack plays well enough to be our guy going forward, than we wont be in the top 3 of the draft. So I'd require a trade up to get a QB more than likely. At that point do we really want to be given up future picks for in essence a backup QB?




Even if Hack comes in and plays decent, I still expect us to have a top 5 pick. This is a rebuild, we aren't going to win a lot of games next year. Our roster still has a lot of holes. I am optimistic but I'm also being a realist. IMO we should be in position to draft one of the top 4 or 5 QBs in next year's draft.

I'll make a stat line.
Hack goes out and plays all year and throws for 3,500yds 20 TDs and 15 INTs.
It would not be smart team building imo to spend a 1st rounder on a qb if your 22yr old qb puts up an optimistic season like that. Spend a 3rd rounder? Sure. But spend that 1st rounder on a LT, Edge or CB. Positions we will more than likely still need after this season.
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