Discuss football with over 60,000 fans. Free Membership. Join now!

 FAQFAQ  RegisterRegister   ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 

FootballsFuture.com Forum Index
FootballsFuture.com Home

Good draft should cost Loomis/Payton their jobs!
Goto page 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6  Next
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    FootballsFuture.com Forum Index -> New Orleans Saints
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
whodatworm23


Moderator
Joined: 23 Dec 2006
Posts: 5147
Location: Nawlins
PostPosted: Sat Apr 29, 2017 6:12 pm    Post subject: Good draft should cost Loomis/Payton their jobs! Reply with quote

I've kept my true feelings about how this draft played out close to the chest but now I'm ready to unload…

First and foremost let me say that I feel this is a very solid draft class for the Saints with some very good players but there is an underlying theme to it that irritates me to my core. Let's take each pick one by one and I'll explain as we go along.


Pick 11: Marshon Lattimore, CB: Ohio State
No one can fault the Saints for taking Lattimore here, he was rumored to be rated within the top 3-4 prospects on the Saints draft board and he plays a position of dire need for the team. His selection also prevented the Saints from having to invest draft capital and upwards of 50 million dollars into 27 year old Patriots corner Malcolm Butler. However, Lattimore does not come unblemished… he basically is a one year wonder at Ohio State with a history of chronic hamstring problems. Still he was the right choice at 11 however I have a hard time believing That the Saints wouldn't have taken Texas Tech quarterback Patrick Mahomes over him had the Chiefs not traded up. I do believe that while we all are ecstatic with the selection of Lattimore, had Andy Reid not made such a bold move at pick 10 we would be singing a different tune right now toward our GM and HC combo.


Pick 32: Ryan Ramczyk, OT: Wisconsin
Let me first say that I believe Ramczyk to be a very good player and a excellent fit for what the Saints need on the right side to replace the 34 year old Zach Strief but let's clarify a few things first that Ramczyk has nothing to do with…

Didn't we draft this player/position already?

Let's not forget the fact that this front office spent the 13th overall pick on Andrus Peat with the same “vision” that they now have for Ramczyk. No this isn't Ramczyk’s fault but it shows complete incompetence in this front offices ability to build a viable roster and oh by the way both these two picks (Peat & Ramczyk) were made with draft capital this front office consistently told its fan base they'd use on improving the leagues poorest defense. Brandin Cooks was traded for many reasons but the only one Saints fans could grasp and understand was the idea of trying to rob peter to pay Paul and using this pick to help better our defensive unit. Instead the Saints found themselves correcting a wrong from just two drafts ago instead. Yes I'm aware that Andrus Peat is a viable LG on this club but people that isn't worth the 13th pick in the NFL draft!

Then look to the other player the Saints were rumored to be targeting with this 32nd pick in Alabama’s Reuben Foster. A linebacker who's need on the team was magnified by yet another first round miss in Stephone Anthony, another pick that cost us a top NFL offensive playmaker in Jimmy Graham. The mere fact that Foster was in consideration has to reflect poorly on this front office and scouting department based off of why he was viewed as a need in the first place!

Then there is the truth… the guy the Saints truly wanted here at the back half of the 1st round will now spend his days harassing Drew Brees instead of helping him close out games. Takk McKinley the edge rusher from UCLA was the apple of the Saints eye but Sean Payton’s unwillingness to surrender one of his 3rd round picks prevented him from making the deal to bring him to NOLA and fill our biggest offseason need. The one need Payton himself continued to call a MUST HAVE!

Listen… Ramczyk is a good player and will be for the Saints but Mickey Loomis, Sean Payton and the Saints front office failed here and it will likely cost this team dearly in 2017.


Pick 42: Marcus Williams, FS: Utah
Let's just call this draft for what it is… Lattimore was the biggest need due to the Saints inability to find a quality corner since Payton has gotten here. Ramczyk was the pick to replace Strief one day and to cover up the fact that Andrus Peat has been a major disappointment. Reuben Foster was targeted because the Saints whiffed and wasted the 1st round pick they got for Jimmy Graham on Stephone Anthony and now Marcus Williams is drafted at 42 to play center fielder after the Saints released 54 million dollar free agent bust Jarius Byrd!

Are you beginning to notice the trend here people?

Nothing against Marcus Williams, I love the kid and his potential but we're never improving as a football team because this front office is always taking one step forward and two steps back. Yes Williams is a need and his ball hawking ability will be a breath of fresh air but he's yet another “make up” selection based on a terrible decision this front office has made recently. It's almost like this front office is doing whatever they can to cover their tracks and it's depressing when you sit back and see these picks for what they truly are and you realize just what could have been with this team and how this front office has basically mismanaged the back half of the career of one of the best quarterbacks this sport has ever seen.


Pick 67: Alvin Kamari, RB: Tennessee
Here's another player that I really like but once again we find ourselves making up for past mistakes instead of moving forward. Mickey Loomis called Kamara a Reggie Bush, Darren Sproles sattlite back clone. Sorry, thought we had that in CJ Spiller? Forgot about that terrible investment for a second didn't we. It also makes you wonder why if the satellite back position was so valuable that you'd trade a future 2nd round draft pick to secure Karmara… why on earth do you give Darren Sproles away for a 5th round draft pick???

Frankly… because our front office has the slightest idea what they are doing!

Alvin Kamara is a good kid and a hell of a back and yes a perfect fit for what Sean Payton wants to do. However this is still the same Sean Payton who's been the subject of trade rumors the last few seasons because he simply cannot get his defense up to snuff. Kamara was a luxury pick the Saints likely couldn't afford to spend on. Sure it looks flashy now and sure he'll be a good player as we continue to play in 42-38 shootouts with no real ability to affect the quarterback on a down in down out basis.


Pick 76: Antony Anzalone, LB: Florida
Let's keep the train rolling on making up for very recent past mistakes… the Saints missed out on Reuben Foster but that didn't stop them from finding the anti Stephone Anthony here in Anzalone! Anzalone is a highly instinctive player with the athletic traits to play in space and coverage, everything Anthony isn't. I'd be very suprided if Stephone Anthony makes it out of OTA’s on the Saints roster but he might have to because the one thing Anzalone can't seem to do is stay healthy.

I'm not bashing the kid or the pick but it is what it is… this front office is a joke!

I like all these pick as far as the players are concerned but do you remember what was said to all Saints fans prior to the 2015 NFL draft? It was deemed by Mickey Loomis and Sean Payton as the foundation draft for the future and the one that they MUST get right… obviously they failed miserably because they are basically picking the same draft class two years later and we STILL don't have a edge rusher!


Pick 103: Trey Hendrickson, DE: Florida Atlantic
I absolutely love this kid… I love everything about him, he'll give his heart and soul to this team but he's not the edge rusher we needed. Hendrickson is very much in the mold of a Hau’ Oli Kikaha as a guy who will be a high motor try hard dude and get the hustle sacks when there their but this was a situation where the Saints simply waffled and couldn't leave the draft without a defensive end. When the Saints made this pick I posted that Hendrickson was Rob Ninkovich so in a way this could be yet another make up pick in the eyes of Sean Payton as he's often spoken about how allowing Ninkovich to get away was one of the bigger mistakes of his tenure in New Orleans.


Pick 196: Al-Quadin Muhammad, DE: Miami
Salt in the wound… that's what this is!!!

A potential Junior Galette type pass rusher with a good physical skill set and a bad attitude and character history. He's also what I would call a poor mans version of UCLA’s Takk McKinnley whom the Saints allowed themselves to miss out on in round 1. It's also a desperation move to close out the draft in an effort to hopefully find lightning in a bottle at edge rusher after feeling the heat from local media over the last couple days for not addressing what this Saints staff themselves called a “MUST HAVE” need in finding a pass rusher. I cannot stress enough how often both Loomis and Payton stressed the importance of addressing this need this offseason, often citing stats and recent statistics of top NFL defense's and pointing out how inept we were in comparison.

The failure to land a premier pass rusher must be viewed as a flop by no ones words but our own front offices.


Marshon Lattimore, Ryan Ramczyk, Marcus Williams, Alvin Kamara, Anthony Anzalone, Trey Hendrickson and Al-Quadin Muhammad represent a very good draft class full of potential and depth. They have nothing to do with the past but we as Saints fans have seen this story played out before, the question is how many more reruns are we going to allow this movie to play out before we simply get tired of it?





WHODAT SMH!!!
_________________


WHODAT91FOREVER
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
JMG5


Joined: 10 Feb 2016
Posts: 79
PostPosted: Sat Apr 29, 2017 6:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've always looked at this year as a make or break year for Sean Payton and Loomis. Tom Benson probably doesn't see it that way though.

This draft was solid (I give it a B), but once again the Saints preach defense (specifically pass rusher) and they fail to address it like they should have. I think a big reason for this is Sean's ego. After years of putting up big numbers in every offensive category, he still fails to see the need for defense and prioritizes offense. Instead of making due will a few less offensive weapons and doing everything you can to improve the defense.. they continue to spend high value draft picks on offensive talent. Our problems the last few years, and even before that, has always been defense. We consistently try to out score people instead of trying to stop them from scoring.

As you said, I do think this draft was an effort to rectify bad picks made in previous drafts. One good draft doesn't make up for an inability to grade talent and develop it. Maybe we see a turnaround with the new additions to the coaching staff and maybe the Saints are actually learning from past mistakes, but I'm not sure they have. All we can do it hope for the best.

Hopefully all of that made sense. I'm typing on my phone.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
whodatworm23


Moderator
Joined: 23 Dec 2006
Posts: 5147
Location: Nawlins
PostPosted: Sat Apr 29, 2017 6:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

JMG5 wrote:
I've always looked at this year as a make or break year for Sean Payton and Loomis. Tom Benson probably doesn't see it that way though.

This draft was solid (I give it a B), but once again the Saints preach defense (specifically pass rusher) and they fail to address it like they should have. I think a big reason for this is Sean's ego. After years of putting up big numbers in every offensive category, he still fails to see the need for defense and prioritizes offense. Instead of making due will a few less offensive weapons and doing everything you can to improve the defense.. they continue to spend high value draft picks on offensive talent. Our problems the last few years, and even before that, has always been defense. We consistently try to out score people instead of trying to stop them from scoring.

As you said, I do think this draft was an effort to rectify bad picks made in previous drafts. One good draft doesn't make up for an inability to grade talent and develop it. Maybe we see a turnaround with the new additions to the coaching staff and maybe the Saints are actually learning from past mistakes, but I'm not sure they have. All we can do it hope for the best.

Hopefully all of that made sense. I'm typing on my phone.


I completely understand... it was a very bittersweet draft for me as I loved many of the picks and most of the players but it was very obvious to me what the Saints were doing. It's like we just wrapped up the 2015 NFL draft in 2017 and we still don't have an edge rusher opposite Jordan.
_________________


WHODAT91FOREVER
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
tyler735


Joined: 12 Aug 2007
Posts: 2552
Location: Minnesota
PostPosted: Sat Apr 29, 2017 7:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'll start off by saying I really like this draft. I think we got several players that will contribute to this team, and have the ability to outplay their draft spots. First and foremost we greatly improved our secondary in this draft. We have 4 guys at the safety spots that have the talent to be starters in this league in Vaccaro, Williams, Bell, and Bush. I really like the additions of Williams and Bush this offseason. At CB we obviously battled injuries as bad as any team in the league. The addition of Lattimore gives us what should be a very good duo in Lattimore/Breaux (Plus Williams still may be a decent 3rd CB. Basically we have a ton of talent and youth in our secondary now, and I think we will see a ton of improvement from them going forward.

At LB we brought in Klein/Teo. I think Klein can be a solid starter in the NFL, and Teo has battled injuries so far in his career, but at the very least he is a good depth signing. I'm not willing to give up on Anthony just yet as he showed flashes as a rookie. Maybe a sophomore slump? Even if he doesn't pan out the aforementioned additions greatly help this team. From everything I've read on our newest LB, Alex Anzalone, he has the talent to be a quality starter, but just can't stay healthy. Maybe we get a bit of luck and he shakes the injury bug. He's got good size, athleticism, and instincts on the field. Plus we still got Robertson/Ellerbe who are serviceable.

Now the D-Line is an area that I think will be much improved just having a healthy Rankins. He played half a season as a rookie and was a disruptive force with 4 sacks. Nick Fairley is coming off maybe his best season as a pro, and Cam Jordan is still great. That's 3 out of 4 players that are good and can get after the QB on our D-Line. We have Kikaha coming back, and he showed as a rookie he can get after the QB, and we also signed Alex Okefor, who had an 8 sack season in the past few years. We also added Trey Hendrickson, who has quite a bit of potential given his frame/athletic ability. He put up big numbers in college, and even made some big plays against quality competition against the Florida Gators, so he could be a guy that helps us out at some point. I know it's a big IF here, but if Kikaha can stay healthy, that gives us 4 guys that are good at getting to the QB on our D-Line. His rookie year he was an impressive playmaker with sacks and forced fumbles. Obviously it's hard to count on him with his injury history, but we do have some pieces to work with on the roster that would allow us to be a solid defense.

Unless we have a crazy year with injuries killing us like last year, I think we vast improvements at all levels of the defense with the additions we made in free agency, the draft, and our young guys getting healthy (Kikaha, Rankins, PJ Williams)
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Raves


Moderator
Joined: 03 Mar 2006
Posts: 18804
PostPosted: Sat Apr 29, 2017 7:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't think it's quite that easy. The draft is a bit of a crap shoot and you never know who will be available and if they will/won't pan out. Sometimes the most sure-fire locks to succeed flame out for whatever reason and guys that people thought were nothing but rotational players go on to have long successful careers.

Sometimes these issues arise when there are coaching changes to players that were drafted with a specific plan in mind, don't fit the new plan of the DC. Granted this is also a knock against Payton/Loomis for bringing in a DC that can't properly take advantage of all the personnel, but you also can't always get 100% transition from one plan to the next. That's where I think someone like Anthony falls into. They drafted him for his raw ability and skillset but once they started changing their defensive plan, his skillset became less of a value and his flaws were going to be highlighted.

When it comes to your argument about Peat/Ramczyk, let's first talk about Peat. The Saints have taken OTs and moved them to OG quite often, Nicks and Jahri Evans were both former OT that moved to OG and performed very well. Peat was likely drafted to be the RT of the future but ended up being better at OG than OT which still shores up a part of our OL that was weak. You can argue #13 is too high for an OG but teams have started to value OGs much higher than they used to because defenses have started to put a higher premium on DTs that can provide pressure from the middle and not just stuff the run. Having a strong interior OL helps a QB be able to step up and find the passing lanes easier, especially one as short as Drew Brees so I think the value for a long term answer at OG isn't bad value. Now the fact that we are addressing the position again, well if Peat had worked out at RT, right now we would be drafting Lamp, or even possibly drafting Ram and still moving Peat or Ram to OG. Regardless we still would've had a position on our OL that needed to improved upon. So I don't really think you can complain too much about drafting an offensive lineman until you have an above average/great offensive line.

Williams is obviously an attempt to find a ball-hawk safety that we've lacked since Darren Sharper was here. Jenkins was ok, but not a ballhawk, Byrd was supposed to be the answer but unfortunately he was unable to stay healthy and couldn't replicate the success he had in Buffalo and it did cost the Saints plenty in both time and cap flexibility, but at the time of the signing not a single person complained, everyone was hyped that the Saints were able to find someway to bring in arguably the best FS in the NFL at the time. Hopefully Williams can come in and be the answer we've been waiting for.

Kamari is a pick I didn't like, I thought they should've gone with a pass-rusher here as there were several that had value here, going with a change of pace back does fill a niche we didn't have filled though. Your argument about CJ Spiller, that wasn't really a terrible investment, 2 year 9 million for a player that many thought was a boom/bust possibility for us, either he was going to get cut and cost us a little in dead cap, not nearly as much as some previous misses cost us, Browner and Byrd, but was a reasonable risk. He busted we are only eating about 1.5 million in cap for Spiller not working out and Kamari fills the role in our offense that no one else was suited for. You argue that we traded Sproles for a 5th, well we traded him after a down year for him in our offense and he wasn't exactly a young player. Granted Sproles turned it back around for a good season the following year, but it was a risk they took and made a move.

Anzalone, I really don't like the injury concerns but he just seems like Fujita. Was never really flashy but just got everything done. You could argue that this was making up for the Anthony pick, but it sounds more like Anthony just doesn't fit the defense they want to run. Not Anthony's fault, partly the Saints fault for not trying to keep with that defense but with how bad ours has been they've been trying to hit a home run on every at bat when it's still only the 6th inning and down by 1. This seems like the Saints are in the bottom of the 9th game is tied, one out with the bases loaded. With a sac-fly(Anthony), they can score and win the game. I think Anthony will end up going elsewhere and having a good career in a scheme he fits better, possibly even the Patriots.

Hendrickson, kind of agree he feels like he is a compulsory DE, but also feel like he could be a solid player. He won't light the league on fire but he could be a solid starter/rotation player for the Saints. I would've preferred Carl Lawson at this point, much much higher bust rate due to injuries, but a much higher ceiling as an elite pass rusher.

Muhammad, I'm a guy that's very open to giving people a second chance, as long as they seem sincere in wanting/having changed. I think Galette wasn't one that the Saints felt did, and well the Saints got out just in time as he's done nothing for Washington but been a distraction. Muhammad is a much lower risk than Galette would've been, but I feel this was a wasted pick as well as there were better players available and Muhammad might've been available as an UDFA. Now my thoughts here is that this pick was made with the Hendrickson pick in mind and why Lawson wasn't the pick over Hendrickson. Muhammad flashed a lot of raw potential in the one season he played, a player with that amount of talent could be a longterm starter in the NFL for years to come, but he comes with a lot of risk in terms of character and ability to transition to the NFL due to a lack of experience. So the Saints take a player that could turn out to be a pro bowler as time goes on while hedging their bets by drafting a player that at the least will make the team as a solid rotation guy helping improve our DE depth.

Overall I think this draft was great, a lot of it filled holes in our team that although might not be glaring this year, Kamari/Ramczyk, will be glaring come next off-season so they were able to take a more proactive approach. So although giving up a 2018 2nd round pick for Kamari seems like a lot, he was graded as a 2nd rounder pick this year, so we effectively traded our 2nd round pick to draft a scatback a year early. With Ramczyk let's be honest, we've been mocking Strief to get replaced for years, this just might be the year that he gets replaced as it will happen sooner or later.

But you are right, this draft screams of Payton/Loomis trying to fill positions that previously had misses, but really that's how every team drafts, as not every player drafted succeeds and not every free agent signing works out. Payton/Loomis should be on the hot seat not for trying to rebuild the team, but for how long they've floundered trying to find the identity/fit that is needed to fix the flaws.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
whodatworm23


Moderator
Joined: 23 Dec 2006
Posts: 5147
Location: Nawlins
PostPosted: Sat Apr 29, 2017 7:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Reguardless the HOT SEAT is EXACTLY where both Loomis and Payton MUST start the season off on... despite everything we both have mentioned, this is a front office who entered the offseason broadcasting their 1 glaring need for the world to hear, traded offensive weapons to help improve the defense in a loaded defensive draft and had the most money the team has had available in the salary cap in years and still came away empty handed.

Most top defenses have 3 guys who can rush off the edge... the Saints have 1 in Jordan and even he isn't your typical edge rusher. This was a complete failure to address the one position that has hindered this club for 3 years and there was absolutely ZERO excuse for it. I have little doubt that the Saints will get desperate at some point soon and trade something ridiculous to a team for a second rate pass rusher in an effort to save jobs in their front office.

Saints fans are patient but after 3 straight 7-9 seasons with the resources this front office had this offseason the lack of pass rush once again, in my opinion will finally cost either Loomis or Payton their job when this club once again cannot get off the field on 3rd down defense.
_________________


WHODAT91FOREVER
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
whodatworm23


Moderator
Joined: 23 Dec 2006
Posts: 5147
Location: Nawlins
PostPosted: Sat Apr 29, 2017 7:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Let me pose a question...

What goes through your mind when you hear Sean Payton say that each one of these players they drafted he has a "CLEAR VISION" for and he thinks that's important.

He said the same thing for Peat and Anthony amongst others... at what point do we as fans admit that Payton's "VISION" is flawed?
_________________


WHODAT91FOREVER
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Raves


Moderator
Joined: 03 Mar 2006
Posts: 18804
PostPosted: Sat Apr 29, 2017 7:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

whodatworm23 wrote:
Reguardless the HOT SEAT is EXACTLY where both Loomis and Payton MUST start the season off on... despite everything we both have mentioned, this is a front office who entered the offseason broadcasting their 1 glaring need for the world to hear, traded offensive weapons to help improve the defense in a loaded defensive draft and had the most money the team has had available in the salary cap in years and still came away empty handed.

Most top defenses have 3 guys who can rush off the edge... the Saints have 1 in Jordan and even he isn't your typical edge rusher. This was a complete failure to address the one position that has hindered this club for 3 years and there was absolutely ZERO excuse for it. I have little doubt that the Saints will get desperate at some point soon and trade something ridiculous to a team for a second rate pass rusher in an effort to save jobs in their front office.

Saints fans are patient but after 3 straight 7-9 seasons with the resources this front office had this offseason the lack of pass rush once again, in my opinion will finally cost either Loomis or Payton their job when this club once again cannot get off the field on 3rd down defense.


I definitely agree that Payton and Loomis must be on the hot seat, I simply had a different take/outlook on the draft than you. I think this was a great draft and as long as the team stays healthy, I see no reason we shouldn't be able to get to 10-6 this season. Our offense will always provide a mismatch against opposing defenses and with a bolstered OL it'll help even more especially within our own division. Our improvements on defense also help us greatly as I expect us to be a in a 3 safety-set close to 60-75% of the time as having 3 of Bell/Bush/Vacarro/Williams will provide a lot of options against the offenses in the NFL. Should be an exciting season and definitely looking at trying to go to a game this year, even if it's just a pre-season game.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Raves


Moderator
Joined: 03 Mar 2006
Posts: 18804
PostPosted: Sat Apr 29, 2017 8:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

whodatworm23 wrote:
Let me pose a question...

What goes through your mind when you hear Sean Payton say that each one of these players they drafted he has a "CLEAR VISION" for and he thinks that's important.

He said the same thing for Peat and Anthony amongst others... at what point do we as fans admit that Payton's "VISION" is flawed?


Vision and how things play out is always tricky. I think with Peat they probably looked at him as a RT but with needs how injuries played out they got a better view of his skills in the NFL as well as the weaknesses on our OL and the vision changed to improving a weakness at RT to improving the bigger weakness at OG.

With Anthony, I think with the defense they were going to be running, he was going to be a big playmaker in the backfield, defensive coordinator changed, twice I think, and the vision gets changed on the new defense. Honestly as soon as Anthony gets cut/leaves I see him going to the Patriots/Steelers and becoming a Pro Bowler as he just fits their teams better.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
tyler735


Joined: 12 Aug 2007
Posts: 2552
Location: Minnesota
PostPosted: Sat Apr 29, 2017 8:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

[quote="whodatworm23"]
Quote:
Reguardless the HOT SEAT is EXACTLY where both Loomis and Payton MUST start the season off on


I think that's a fair point. several 7-9 seasons justifies that thought as well. Simply is time to start seeing some more results.


Quote:
Most top defenses have 3 guys who can rush off the edge... the Saints have 1 in Jordan and even he isn't your typical edge rusher. This was a complete failure to address the one position that has hindered this club for 3 years and there was absolutely ZERO excuse for it.


While as much as I would love to have 3 stud pass rushers coming off the edge, we likely won't have that this season. We have Jordan as you mentioned, and we have a guy that could be a good pass rusher in Kikaha coming off the edge. Plus we added Okefor, and Hendrickson. Kikaha had 4 sacks, and 4 forced fumbles as a rookie. He was making quite a few plays. Obviously there is some risk there, but also tons of talent. So I do think that we will see improved production this season whether it's Kikaha, Okefor, or Hendrickson.

I don't have statistics for where this ranks compared to other DT duo's, but our DT duo of Fairley and Rankins had 10.5 sacks last year. Rankins was just a rookie and played half a season...Despite that, he still had 4 sacks. If he continues that rate through a season that is 8 sacks (The top DT for sacks last year had 9 sacks- Geno Atkins, 2nd was Aaron Donald with 8 sacks). In other words, Rankins was making a big impact and getting after the QB. Fairley on the other hand had 6.5 sacks, which ranked 4th for all DT's in the NFL. I think we have a DT duo that is going to cause offenses tons of headaches this season, which combined with Jordan, and whoever is opposite (Kikaha, Okefor, or Hendrickson), will help generate a pretty solid pass rush.

We will also see more coverage sacks this season as we have 4 talented safety's, and Lattimore should be a heck of an addition for us. We also don't have 4 out 5 CB's (I forget if that's the exact number, but you get the picture I'm sure) injured this year, which can only help, so we should see much better pass coverage.

I'm not saying we are going to be the 85 Bears or anything, but if can go from a bad defense to an average defense this season, I'm perfectly content with that. We were terrible the past couple seasons on defense. However we lost 7 games by less than 1 score last season. I do think we have made enough strides on that side of the ball to change the outcome of some of these 1 score games in our favor.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
whodatworm23


Moderator
Joined: 23 Dec 2006
Posts: 5147
Location: Nawlins
PostPosted: Sat Apr 29, 2017 8:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Im sorry... I just don't see how a GM and HC can go ALL off season pointing to one particular position calling it a MUST HAVE and citing that very lack of position as a major part of the teams overall defensive demise, then not even address the position with a quality pick or attempt to secure an elite prospect and not call that a total failure and complete ineptitude on behalf of the front office as a whole.

They fell on there face plain and simple and now they're backtracking their statements from all offseason. Yes they were lucky to have some talented players fall to them and overall they landed a solid class but not landing a elite edge rush prospect is inexcusable to me after all that was said this offseason.
_________________


WHODAT91FOREVER
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
tyler735


Joined: 12 Aug 2007
Posts: 2552
Location: Minnesota
PostPosted: Sat Apr 29, 2017 9:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

whodatworm23 wrote:
Im sorry... I just don't see how a GM and HC can go ALL off season pointing to one particular position calling it a MUST HAVE and citing that very lack of position as a major part of the teams overall defensive demise, then not even address the position with a quality pick or attempt to secure an elite prospect and not call that a total failure and complete ineptitude on behalf of the front office as a whole.

They fell on there face plain and simple and now they're backtracking their statements from all offseason. Yes they were lucky to have some talented players fall to them and overall they landed a solid class but not landing a elite edge rush prospect is inexcusable to me after all that was said this offseason.


I don't recall any big name pass rushers being available in Free Agency, so we didn't have much of a chance to address it there, but we did manage to resign Nick Fairley one of the best pass rushing DT's in the NFL, and get Alex Okefor who had 8 sacks a couple years ago. However he's been stuck behind Chandler Jones, and Markus Golde,, so his numbers dropped. He's still just 26 and has shown he can get to the QB when given the chance. I don't think he's some elite signing by any means, but certainly could make an impact for us.

In the draft I think the made the right call at pick 11 to go with Lattimore he was one of only a handful of Blue Chip prospects. Any pass rusher not named Myles Garrett would've been the wrong pick at 11 with Lattimore on the board. At pick 32 there were some pass rushers available, but none of the elite pass rushers were on the board at that point. Barnett, Harris, Reddick, McKinnley, and Watt were gone.

Willis, Bowser, Lawson, Williams, etc. were on the board still, but they viewed them as a reach at 32, which seems justified as no other team took them until later into the 2nd/3rd rounds. We ended up with Trey Hendrickson, who from a pure talent standpoint seems to be on the same level as guys like Willis, Bowser, and Lawson. Similar size, athletic ability, and production.

I love what we did in the offseason. I think on both sides of the ball we have improved since last year. I do agree that our GM and HC should be on the hotseat, but I do like the direction they've taken the past few months, and look forward to seeing what happens this season as I think our record improves with all the talent we should have on the field this season.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Raves


Moderator
Joined: 03 Mar 2006
Posts: 18804
PostPosted: Sat Apr 29, 2017 9:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think the only problem with that thinking is there was that outside of Anzalone, I don't remember seeing a position where we could've gotten a pass rusher that would've been rated higher than who we drafted and that would've been with Tim Williams who had a lot of question marks, possibly Derek Rivers depending on how you looked at him.

Granted we needed a DE but I don't think the DE class was strong outside of the 1st rounders. I think we are lacking but I don't think the team needs to/will overreact to get a DE, mostly because I don't think there will be on available for us to get, and will be able to do well this season still.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
whodatworm23


Moderator
Joined: 23 Dec 2006
Posts: 5147
Location: Nawlins
PostPosted: Sat Apr 29, 2017 9:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Raves wrote:
I think the only problem with that thinking is there was that outside of Anzalone, I don't remember seeing a position where we could've gotten a pass rusher that would've been rated higher than who we drafted and that would've been with Tim Williams who had a lot of question marks, possibly Derek Rivers depending on how you looked at him.

Granted we needed a DE but I don't think the DE class was strong outside of the 1st rounders. I think we are lacking but I don't think the team needs to/will overreact to get a DE, mostly because I don't think there will be on available for us to get, and will be able to do well this season still.


I understand that Cameron Jordan and Kenny Vaccaro were very high on bringing in Okafor... I do like him a lot and I do believe that Hendrickson can surprise. Here's hoping that Oakfor breaks out like Fairley did and we spend next offseason trying to get him locked up long term!
_________________


WHODAT91FOREVER
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
WhoDatNation


Joined: 13 Oct 2014
Posts: 407
PostPosted: Sun Apr 30, 2017 12:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

This wasn't a good draft. We will be 7-9 again. We drafted a RB by trading a future pick. Bad...! We drafted a LB that was labeled "often injured", but we could have landed Tim Williams. We ignored the hell out of Jordan Willis. We could've drafted Malachi Dupre in the 6th. Drew will leave after this season because our front office is garbage. Meanwhile, inexperienced first time GM John Lynch kills the draft. They suck.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   

Post new topic   Reply to topic    FootballsFuture.com Forum Index -> New Orleans Saints All times are GMT - 4 Hours
Goto page 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6  Next
Page 1 of 6

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum




Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group