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2017 6.25 (209) WR Robert Davis, Georgia State
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Woz


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PostPosted: Sun May 07, 2017 3:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

jwray2727 wrote:
Woz wrote:
(for more information on my aggregate list see: http://www.footballsfuture.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?p=21502742#21502742 )

6.25 (209): Robert Davis, WR from Georgia State; 111th overall with 230.0 aggregate (43.73 std. dev; CBS = 213, DT = 290, NFL.com = 187)

I admit I tend to like guys from small schools, guys who fight for recognition. They have a chip on their shoulder.

However, I prefer guys from small schools when all things are equal (or nearly so). This is why I liked Corey Davis over Mike Williams; if you can be considered to be one of the best wide receivers while playing at Western Michigan, then you're my kind of guy (granted, I was just as stunned that he went 5th overall).

This is not the case with Davis. Available when he was selected:
Isaiah Ford - 138.7 / 17.21
Malachi Dupre - 150.7 / 13.12
KD Cannon - 156.7 / 8.65
Noah Brown - 188.0 / 36.12

All three lists had these four wide receivers ranked before Davis. CBS had Brown only 13 spots ahead of Davis, and NFL.com had Cannon only 29 spots ahead. Other than those two grades, it wasn't close (nearly two full rounds better for any of those guys; DraftTek in particular was cold). Cannon in particular sounds like he could be a poor man's DeSean Jackson, not the worst thing in the world to be.

That's not all, the following were favored on two of the three lists
Travis Rudolph - 161.3 / 45.18 (CBS = 223, 10 spots behind Davis)
Artavis Scott - 199.0 / 44.73 (CBS = 260, 47 spots behind)
Stacy Coley - 204.0 / 5.72 (NFL.com = 197, 10 spots behind)

That's seven other receivers that conceivably could have been better selections. Rudolph in particular sounds like a solid young man, one I would hope gets a shot at the NFL (wasn't drafted).

And this is a pick I actually like.


I'm sorry WOZ, but I really don't like your statistical analysis. I don't think it was relevant on any of the picks. You analyzed rankings between three sites that rank hundreds of players. Please spend more time analyzing the actual PLAYER, and provide meaning feedback on the PLAYER rather than where he was ranked.


To each their own. In the grand scheme of things, I think relying on people whose job it is to evaluate prospects professionally is probably worth more than just the ability of one guy looking at Youtube highlight reels.
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turtle28


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PostPosted: Sun May 07, 2017 11:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree with a lot of what you are saying woz, especially about Ford & Cannon being there. I mocked Cannon to the skins in the late rounds over and over because they have some speed and deep ball skills so presumably we could use them in the way we used to use Aldrick Robinson and Rashad Ross, Ian's maybe they could even develop into more.

That being said, Robert Davis was productive against big schools like Wisconsin and I forget the other teams but, he clearly showed ability in those games, and impressive ability. He needs work but he has some skills to work with and he's an athletic freak. If all he ever develops into is just a #4 or 5 wr and a special teams ace like Niles Paul, the pick we worth it, but he had the potential to be more becusse he has better hands than Paul.

Davis really reminds me of a bigger version of Garçon who can actually high point the ball. I think he has that kind of potential. I like the selection. I kind of wish we had taken Cannon in round 7, even if we had just taken Davis because I like Cannon's speed and potential so much as at worst just a situational deep threat.

By the way Cannon was cut by the 49ers so, we could sign him.

https://www.google.com/amp/www.sportingnews.com/amp/nfl/news/49ers-cut-kd-cannon-undrafted-free-agent-baylor-wide-receiver/8x5nmco1fj6z1asjn4c9ivke8
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Doc Draper


Joined: 18 Dec 2012
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PostPosted: Mon May 08, 2017 5:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Woz wrote:
jwray2727 wrote:
Woz wrote:
(for more information on my aggregate list see: http://www.footballsfuture.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?p=21502742#21502742 )

6.25 (209): Robert Davis, WR from Georgia State; 111th overall with 230.0 aggregate (43.73 std. dev; CBS = 213, DT = 290, NFL.com = 187)

I admit I tend to like guys from small schools, guys who fight for recognition. They have a chip on their shoulder.

However, I prefer guys from small schools when all things are equal (or nearly so). This is why I liked Corey Davis over Mike Williams; if you can be considered to be one of the best wide receivers while playing at Western Michigan, then you're my kind of guy (granted, I was just as stunned that he went 5th overall).

This is not the case with Davis. Available when he was selected:
Isaiah Ford - 138.7 / 17.21
Malachi Dupre - 150.7 / 13.12
KD Cannon - 156.7 / 8.65
Noah Brown - 188.0 / 36.12

All three lists had these four wide receivers ranked before Davis. CBS had Brown only 13 spots ahead of Davis, and NFL.com had Cannon only 29 spots ahead. Other than those two grades, it wasn't close (nearly two full rounds better for any of those guys; DraftTek in particular was cold). Cannon in particular sounds like he could be a poor man's DeSean Jackson, not the worst thing in the world to be.

That's not all, the following were favored on two of the three lists
Travis Rudolph - 161.3 / 45.18 (CBS = 223, 10 spots behind Davis)
Artavis Scott - 199.0 / 44.73 (CBS = 260, 47 spots behind)
Stacy Coley - 204.0 / 5.72 (NFL.com = 197, 10 spots behind)

That's seven other receivers that conceivably could have been better selections. Rudolph in particular sounds like a solid young man, one I would hope gets a shot at the NFL (wasn't drafted).

And this is a pick I actually like.


I'm sorry WOZ, but I really don't like your statistical analysis. I don't think it was relevant on any of the picks. You analyzed rankings between three sites that rank hundreds of players. Please spend more time analyzing the actual PLAYER, and provide meaning feedback on the PLAYER rather than where he was ranked.


To each their own. In the grand scheme of things, I think relying on people whose job it is to evaluate prospects professionally is probably worth more than just the ability of one guy looking at Youtube highlight reels.


Remember that scene in Moneyball where all the scouts have this perplexed look on their face when there evaluations such as " yeah he hits but his wife isn't very pretty'. I think the great majority of scouts that aren't using analytics are nothing more than con men. Then there are a few of the talent whisperers like Bernhard scot Mac but of course we run them out of town
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turtle28


Joined: 21 Nov 2007
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Location: MD/DC/VA depends on the hr!
PostPosted: Mon May 08, 2017 2:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Doc Draper wrote:
Woz wrote:
jwray2727 wrote:
Woz wrote:
(for more information on my aggregate list see: http://www.footballsfuture.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?p=21502742#21502742 )

6.25 (209): Robert Davis, WR from Georgia State; 111th overall with 230.0 aggregate (43.73 std. dev; CBS = 213, DT = 290, NFL.com = 187)

I admit I tend to like guys from small schools, guys who fight for recognition. They have a chip on their shoulder.

However, I prefer guys from small schools when all things are equal (or nearly so). This is why I liked Corey Davis over Mike Williams; if you can be considered to be one of the best wide receivers while playing at Western Michigan, then you're my kind of guy (granted, I was just as stunned that he went 5th overall).

This is not the case with Davis. Available when he was selected:
Isaiah Ford - 138.7 / 17.21
Malachi Dupre - 150.7 / 13.12
KD Cannon - 156.7 / 8.65
Noah Brown - 188.0 / 36.12

All three lists had these four wide receivers ranked before Davis. CBS had Brown only 13 spots ahead of Davis, and NFL.com had Cannon only 29 spots ahead. Other than those two grades, it wasn't close (nearly two full rounds better for any of those guys; DraftTek in particular was cold). Cannon in particular sounds like he could be a poor man's DeSean Jackson, not the worst thing in the world to be.

That's not all, the following were favored on two of the three lists
Travis Rudolph - 161.3 / 45.18 (CBS = 223, 10 spots behind Davis)
Artavis Scott - 199.0 / 44.73 (CBS = 260, 47 spots behind)
Stacy Coley - 204.0 / 5.72 (NFL.com = 197, 10 spots behind)

That's seven other receivers that conceivably could have been better selections. Rudolph in particular sounds like a solid young man, one I would hope gets a shot at the NFL (wasn't drafted).

And this is a pick I actually like.


I'm sorry WOZ, but I really don't like your statistical analysis. I don't think it was relevant on any of the picks. You analyzed rankings between three sites that rank hundreds of players. Please spend more time analyzing the actual PLAYER, and provide meaning feedback on the PLAYER rather than where he was ranked.


To each their own. In the grand scheme of things, I think relying on people whose job it is to evaluate prospects professionally is probably worth more than just the ability of one guy looking at Youtube highlight reels.


Remember that scene in Moneyball where all the scouts have this perplexed look on their face when there evaluations such as " yeah he hits but his wife isn't very pretty'. I think the great majority of scouts that aren't using analytics are nothing more than con men. Then there are a few of the talent whisperers like Bernhard Scot Mac but of course we run them out of town
I don't know, the old time scouts like a Bethard, Wolf, Polian, McCloughan etc, watch a lot of tape - not just look at analytics - IMO analytics only tell you so much. If you really want to see what a guy does, you have to attach him play, not rely on a computer to tell you that his better. Football is just so different than other sports IMO, you really don't get the whole story unless you watch the guy.

I think we are going to miss McCloughan in the long run - not so much on the early round guys because you have to be an idiot to not be able to scout them - but in finding the mid, late round and UDFA gems like the Crowder's, Jarrett's, Dunbar's, Breeland's, Morris', Neseke's, Harris', Lanier's, Everett's Mack Brown's and Robert Kelley's of the world.

McCloughan brought that kind of skill which, is something we didn't have before him and may not have again. Remember under Shanahan and last decade with Cerrato we constantly used FA to fill voids on our roster because we just didn't have the great scout to find us those "football players/diamonds in the rough" who could be role players from the 4th round to UDFA's and every year under Cerrato we were having to renegotiate contracts to get under the cap because of that.
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Doc Draper


Joined: 18 Dec 2012
Posts: 5104
PostPosted: Mon May 08, 2017 2:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

turtle28 wrote:
Doc Draper wrote:
Woz wrote:
jwray2727 wrote:
Woz wrote:
(for more information on my aggregate list see: http://www.footballsfuture.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?p=21502742#21502742 )

6.25 (209): Robert Davis, WR from Georgia State; 111th overall with 230.0 aggregate (43.73 std. dev; CBS = 213, DT = 290, NFL.com = 187)

I admit I tend to like guys from small schools, guys who fight for recognition. They have a chip on their shoulder.

However, I prefer guys from small schools when all things are equal (or nearly so). This is why I liked Corey Davis over Mike Williams; if you can be considered to be one of the best wide receivers while playing at Western Michigan, then you're my kind of guy (granted, I was just as stunned that he went 5th overall).

This is not the case with Davis. Available when he was selected:
Isaiah Ford - 138.7 / 17.21
Malachi Dupre - 150.7 / 13.12
KD Cannon - 156.7 / 8.65
Noah Brown - 188.0 / 36.12

All three lists had these four wide receivers ranked before Davis. CBS had Brown only 13 spots ahead of Davis, and NFL.com had Cannon only 29 spots ahead. Other than those two grades, it wasn't close (nearly two full rounds better for any of those guys; DraftTek in particular was cold). Cannon in particular sounds like he could be a poor man's DeSean Jackson, not the worst thing in the world to be.

That's not all, the following were favored on two of the three lists
Travis Rudolph - 161.3 / 45.18 (CBS = 223, 10 spots behind Davis)
Artavis Scott - 199.0 / 44.73 (CBS = 260, 47 spots behind)
Stacy Coley - 204.0 / 5.72 (NFL.com = 197, 10 spots behind)

That's seven other receivers that conceivably could have been better selections. Rudolph in particular sounds like a solid young man, one I would hope gets a shot at the NFL (wasn't drafted).

And this is a pick I actually like.


I'm sorry WOZ, but I really don't like your statistical analysis. I don't think it was relevant on any of the picks. You analyzed rankings between three sites that rank hundreds of players. Please spend more time analyzing the actual PLAYER, and provide meaning feedback on the PLAYER rather than where he was ranked.


To each their own. In the grand scheme of things, I think relying on people whose job it is to evaluate prospects professionally is probably worth more than just the ability of one guy looking at Youtube highlight reels.


Remember that scene in Moneyball where all the scouts have this perplexed look on their face when there evaluations such as " yeah he hits but his wife isn't very pretty'. I think the great majority of scouts that aren't using analytics are nothing more than con men. Then there are a few of the talent whisperers like Bernhard Scot Mac but of course we run them out of town
I don't know, the old time scouts like a Bethard, Wolf, Polian, McCloughan etc, watch a lot of tape - not just look at analytics - IMO analytics only tell you so much. If you really want to see what a guy does, you have to attach him play, not rely on a computer to tell you that his better. Football is just so different than other sports IMO, you really don't get the whole story unless you watch the guy.

I think we are going to miss McCloughan in the long run - not so much on the early round guys because you have to be an idiot to not be able to scout them - but in finding the mid, late round and UDFA gems like the Crowder's, Jarrett's, Dunbar's, Breeland's, Morris', Neseke's, Harris', Lanier's, Everett's Mack Brown's and Robert Kelley's of the world.

McCloughan brought that kind of skill which, is something we didn't have before him and may not have again. Remember under Shanahan and last decade with Cerrato we constantly used FA to fill voids on our roster because we just didn't have the great scout to find us those "football players/diamonds in the rough" who could be role players from the 4th round to UDFA's and every year under Cerrato we were having to renegotiate contracts to get under the cap because of that.


Turtle! bro! Have the body snatchers taken control of you? ( there used to be an after hours club in Reno in the 70's called "Body SNATCHer" that was an
" Ultimate" experience)
Or has your account been hacked?

Is it possible I'm mistaken? And thought you weren't a fan of Scotty Mac? Smile
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RSkinGM


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PostPosted: Mon May 08, 2017 4:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's funny to me . I'm sure if this class is a bust -Allen gets the blame and if it's a winner--McGlue gets the credit for building the board . Scotty M-- Gotta love him !

http://www.theredzone.org/BlogDescription/tabid/61/EntryId/63274/Fired-Redskins-GM-Scot-McCloughan-auctioning-items-to-help-team-s-foundation/Default.aspx
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turtle28


Joined: 21 Nov 2007
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PostPosted: Mon May 08, 2017 7:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Doc Draper wrote:
turtle28 wrote:
Doc Draper wrote:
Woz wrote:
jwray2727 wrote:
Woz wrote:
(for more information on my aggregate list see: http://www.footballsfuture.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?p=21502742#21502742 )

6.25 (209): Robert Davis, WR from Georgia State; 111th overall with 230.0 aggregate (43.73 std. dev; CBS = 213, DT = 290, NFL.com = 187)

I admit I tend to like guys from small schools, guys who fight for recognition. They have a chip on their shoulder.

However, I prefer guys from small schools when all things are equal (or nearly so). This is why I liked Corey Davis over Mike Williams; if you can be considered to be one of the best wide receivers while playing at Western Michigan, then you're my kind of guy (granted, I was just as stunned that he went 5th overall).

This is not the case with Davis. Available when he was selected:
Isaiah Ford - 138.7 / 17.21
Malachi Dupre - 150.7 / 13.12
KD Cannon - 156.7 / 8.65
Noah Brown - 188.0 / 36.12

All three lists had these four wide receivers ranked before Davis. CBS had Brown only 13 spots ahead of Davis, and NFL.com had Cannon only 29 spots ahead. Other than those two grades, it wasn't close (nearly two full rounds better for any of those guys; DraftTek in particular was cold). Cannon in particular sounds like he could be a poor man's DeSean Jackson, not the worst thing in the world to be.

That's not all, the following were favored on two of the three lists
Travis Rudolph - 161.3 / 45.18 (CBS = 223, 10 spots behind Davis)
Artavis Scott - 199.0 / 44.73 (CBS = 260, 47 spots behind)
Stacy Coley - 204.0 / 5.72 (NFL.com = 197, 10 spots behind)

That's seven other receivers that conceivably could have been better selections. Rudolph in particular sounds like a solid young man, one I would hope gets a shot at the NFL (wasn't drafted).

And this is a pick I actually like.


I'm sorry WOZ, but I really don't like your statistical analysis. I don't think it was relevant on any of the picks. You analyzed rankings between three sites that rank hundreds of players. Please spend more time analyzing the actual PLAYER, and provide meaning feedback on the PLAYER rather than where he was ranked.


To each their own. In the grand scheme of things, I think relying on people whose job it is to evaluate prospects professionally is probably worth more than just the ability of one guy looking at Youtube highlight reels.


Remember that scene in Moneyball where all the scouts have this perplexed look on their face when there evaluations such as " yeah he hits but his wife isn't very pretty'. I think the great majority of scouts that aren't using analytics are nothing more than con men. Then there are a few of the talent whisperers like Bernhard Scot Mac but of course we run them out of town
I don't know, the old time scouts like a Bethard, Wolf, Polian, McCloughan etc, watch a lot of tape - not just look at analytics - IMO analytics only tell you so much. If you really want to see what a guy does, you have to attach him play, not rely on a computer to tell you that his better. Football is just so different than other sports IMO, you really don't get the whole story unless you watch the guy.

I think we are going to miss McCloughan in the long run - not so much on the early round guys because you have to be an idiot to not be able to scout them - but in finding the mid, late round and UDFA gems like the Crowder's, Jarrett's, Dunbar's, Breeland's, Morris', Neseke's, Harris', Lanier's, Everett's Mack Brown's and Robert Kelley's of the world.

McCloughan brought that kind of skill which, is something we didn't have before him and may not have again. Remember under Shanahan and last decade with Cerrato we constantly used FA to fill voids on our roster because we just didn't have the great scout to find us those "football players/diamonds in the rough" who could be role players from the 4th round to UDFA's and every year under Cerrato we were having to renegotiate contracts to get under the cap because of that.


Turtle! bro! Have the body snatchers taken control of you? ( there used to be an after hours club in Reno in the 70's called "Body SNATCHer" that was an
" Ultimate" experience) Or has your account been hacked?

Is it possible I'm mistaken? And thought you weren't a fan of Scotty Mac? Smile
I've always felt that way, I'm just not exactly an Allen hater so people assume that I hate McCloughan because of the stance I took that Allen's 2014 was a pretty solid offseason and not everything McCloughan did was a great move.
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turtle28


Joined: 21 Nov 2007
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PostPosted: Mon May 08, 2017 7:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

RSkinGM wrote:
It's funny to me . I'm sure if this class is a bust -Allen gets the blame and if it's a winner--McGlue gets the credit for building the board . Scotty M-- Gotta love him !

http://www.theredzone.org/BlogDescription/tabid/61/EntryId/63274/Fired-Redskins-GM-Scot-McCloughan-auctioning-items-to-help-team-s-foundation/Default.aspx
That's right, it's a lose lose for the current members of the front office, just like people say about 2014 also because McCloughan's scouting services consulted.
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turtle28


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PostPosted: Tue May 09, 2017 6:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Robert Davis highlights

https://youtu.be/N0PqnF-q4p8
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ripsean21


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PostPosted: Wed May 10, 2017 10:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

turtle28 wrote:
Robert Davis highlights

https://youtu.be/N0PqnF-q4p8


The guy definitely has talent. We will see if he cracks the lineup then that means he used it because we have talent at WR and if he can earn time on the field or a roster spot then the future could be bright. We will see. It's not often you find a guy with his ablilty in the 6th round
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DCRED


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PostPosted: Fri May 12, 2017 10:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

turtle28 wrote:

Davis really reminds me of a bigger version of Garçon who can actually high point the ball. I think he has that kind of potential. I like the selection. I kind of wish we had taken Cannon in round 7, even if we had just taken Davis because I like Cannon's speed and potential so much as at worst just a situational deep threat.

By the way Cannon was cut by the 49ers so, we could sign him.

https://www.google.com/amp/www.sportingnews.com/amp/nfl/news/49ers-cut-kd-cannon-undrafted-free-agent-baylor-wide-receiver/8x5nmco1fj6z1asjn4c9ivke8
Nah, more like an an inexperienced Julio Jones is what everyone is saying
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lavar703


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PostPosted: Fri May 12, 2017 11:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

We should've drafted Isiah Ford instead.
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Jeezy Fanatic


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PostPosted: Fri May 12, 2017 12:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Feels like a young Marko Mitchell!
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RSkinGM


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PostPosted: Fri May 12, 2017 1:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jeezy Fanatic wrote:
Feels like a young Marko Mitchell!


Not as tall ! Wink Laughing
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PostPosted: Fri May 12, 2017 9:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

lavar703 wrote:
We should've drafted Isiah Ford instead.


He would have been fun to watch too. I wonder why we didn't? Has some amazing natural skills
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