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4th Round (108): Vince Biegel [LB; Wisconsin]
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Packerraymond


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Joined: 31 Mar 2005
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Location: Oconomowoc, WI
PostPosted: Mon May 15, 2017 8:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Donzo wrote:
Packerraymond wrote:
Donzo wrote:
Not at all...

He played as a true 3/4 OLB at UW for the last five years, missing OTA's wont set him back a bit.


That's like saying because Dupre played WR in a pro style offense he already knows Mac's scheme.

Dom runs a 3-4 that is only run by 1 other team that I'm aware of. Pittsburgh.


No, that's an awful comp... If LSU ran the Packers offense it would be a little better.

Biegel isn't a converted college DE, like Perry, he's been a 3/4 OLB for the past five years. He dones't need to learn the basics of being a 3/4 OLB.

Talking to some of my UW friends, they tell me Biegel has been in a more advanced 3/4 system than GB runs; Aranda's system is excellent.

And, it's not like Biegel will be in a coma during OTAs. He'll be there learning the playbook like everyone else.


It's the same comp. Of course LSUs offense is nothing like GB, UWs defense is nothing like Capers either, other than having 3 DL and 4 LBs.
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Donzo


Joined: 05 Aug 2015
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PostPosted: Mon May 15, 2017 8:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

AlexGreen#20 wrote:
The basics of Caper's 3-4 and Arranda's 3-4 are not the same thing.


OK?... The sun is hot- Cool

Actually, the basics are the same- they're 3/4's... It's the sub sets that vary. And, going by some of my UW friends, UW's system is just as advanced as GB's and VB may have had better coaching at UW than he'll have at GB.

LIS, VB will be learning Caper's system like everyone else at OTAs.
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Donzo


Joined: 05 Aug 2015
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PostPosted: Mon May 15, 2017 8:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Packerraymond wrote:
Donzo wrote:

No, that's an awful comp... If LSU ran the Packers offense it would be a little better.

Biegel isn't a converted college DE, like Perry, he's been a 3/4 OLB for the past five years. He dones't need to learn the basics of being a 3/4 OLB.

Talking to some of my UW friends, they tell me Biegel has been in a more advanced 3/4 system than GB runs; Aranda's system is excellent.

And, it's not like Biegel will be in a coma during OTAs. He'll be there learning the playbook like everyone else.


It's the same comp. Of course LSUs offense is nothing like GB, UWs defense is nothing like Capers either, other than having 3 DL and 4 LBs.


Geez O Petes, that's bad... Do you know what "nothing like" means- Cool

LIS, over the next month, VB will learning the system like everyone else.
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TransientTexan


Joined: 27 Jul 2014
Posts: 565
Location: Connecticut
PostPosted: Mon May 15, 2017 8:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Packerraymond wrote:
TransientTexan wrote:
HorizontoZenith wrote:
Packerraymond wrote:
This is essentially a red shirt year for Biegel. Rookies who miss the offseason program cannot be counted on to play for contending teams.

We're one injury away from Kyler Fackrell being a starter with Jayrone Elliot as the only backup...at the most important position on the defense. Mario Williams, Dumervil or Walden need to be added to this group.

I don't know why this isn't a thing. When I'm nervous about a position, everybody should be nervous about a position group. We've got nothing for pass rushers right now past our starters, and both of our starters have failed to have a completely healthy season since 2010.
it's ok to be nervous. look at any NFL team and there are multiple things you could be nervous about, especially depth-wise. expecting not to be nervous about anything is unrealistic


Being nervous about QB or pass rush are way different than anywhere else. I was nervous last year about RB depth and OG depth after Sitton left. However that never made me actually worry for the season. The EDGE depth has me legit worried for the season. If Fackrell doesn't take a decent step along with Elliot, we'll stink on defense.
well, enjoy being nervous then...
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AlexGreen#20


Joined: 13 Jun 2012
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PostPosted: Mon May 15, 2017 9:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Donzo wrote:
AlexGreen#20 wrote:
The basics of Caper's 3-4 and Arranda's 3-4 are not the same thing.


OK?... The sun is hot- Cool

Actually, the basics are the same- they're 3/4's... It's the sub sets that vary. And, going by some of my UW friends, UW's system is just as advanced as GB's and VB may have had better coaching at UW than he'll have at GB.

LIS, VB will be learning Caper's system like everyone else at OTAs.


They're not even close to the same. How are you watching these two teams and thinking that? Compare the offenses that Michigan and Ohio State run compared to the Vikings, Bears, and Lions. How would the defenses not be different? The Badgers probably saw more snaps against a FB in one game than the Packers did all year.

And obviously the subsets are different but when the Packers are playing roughly 20% of their snaps in a base 3-4, the subsets are a huge deal.

Also your friends are on crack if they think the UW Defense and the GB Defense are of similar complexities. Even the most complex college defenses are several steps behind even simple NFL systems.
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Donzo


Joined: 05 Aug 2015
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PostPosted: Mon May 15, 2017 9:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

AlexGreen#20 wrote:
Also your friends are on crack if they think the UW Defense and the GB Defense are of similar complexities. Even the most complex college defenses are several steps behind even simple NFL systems.


If you say so...

Confused
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arcilite12


Joined: 13 Dec 2014
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PostPosted: Tue May 16, 2017 10:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You're telling us that a college football program that isn't even good enough to appear in national championship games has a more complex defense and better coaches than an NFL team that has won Super Bowls?


Get outta here
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NormSizedMidget


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PostPosted: Tue May 16, 2017 10:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

My friends at UW say it's far less complex
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ugLymayNe


Joined: 31 Oct 2006
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Location: Wisconsin
PostPosted: Tue May 16, 2017 11:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Did Dom ever get scooped and hired by a SEC program like LSU? No.

Obviously his system is far better and more complex than that Lego Hair Capers.

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HorizontoZenith


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PostPosted: Tue May 16, 2017 11:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Packerraymond wrote:
Being nervous about QB or pass rush are way different than anywhere else. I was nervous last year about RB depth and OG depth after Sitton left. However that never made me actually worry for the season. The EDGE depth has me legit worried for the season. If Fackrell doesn't take a decent step along with Elliot, we'll stink on defense.

Much yes to all of this.

A team can have a crappy position group at:

WR, TE, RB, OG, OT, C, K, P and ILB and still win Super Bowls. Hell, teams have had crappy QB groups and have still won Super Bowls.

Find me a team that's had a crappy position group at CB, S, EDGE or DL that's won a Super Bowl and I'll find you a liar.

You can't win Super Bowls without a pass rush, and you can't win Super Bowls without coverage enough to give pass rushers time.

If Kyler Fackrell and Jayrone Elliot turned out to be our starters for any length of time, everybody here would be begging for us to go back to last year's defense.
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Shanedorf


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PostPosted: Tue May 16, 2017 11:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't get nervous about any of this, and none of it makes me worry one bit
We've got the right people working on any issues that may arise and I have no control over any of it. They know everything we know and a thousand times more.

The Packers may be without their rookie 5th OLB until TC ? Gasp !
And some think that will be the fulcrum around which our SB fate is decided ?

There will be a dozen or more major challenges that this team will face in their quest for # 14. Best you get used to the idea of overcoming adversity, its part and parcel of winning a Title. And if this short- term hiccup is the biggest hurdle GB faces all year, you can start planning the parade route now. Smile
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Packerraymond


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PostPosted: Tue May 16, 2017 1:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Shanedorf wrote:
I don't get nervous about any of this, and none of it makes me worry one bit
We've got the right people working on any issues that may arise and I have no control over any of it. They know everything we know and a thousand times more.

The Packers may be without their rookie 5th OLB until TC ? Gasp !
And some think that will be the fulcrum around which our SB fate is decided ?

There will be a dozen or more major challenges that this team will face in their quest for # 14. Best you get used to the idea of overcoming adversity, its part and parcel of winning a Title. And if this short- term hiccup is the biggest hurdle GB faces all year, you can start planning the parade route now. Smile


It has little to do with losing Biegel. It has lots to do that the depth there isn't good to begin with and now it's worse.
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lrs3


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PostPosted: Tue May 16, 2017 1:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thoughts on Dean Lowry taking some of Datone's edge snaps?
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mikemike778


Joined: 27 Feb 2011
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PostPosted: Tue May 16, 2017 2:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

HorizontoZenith wrote:


Find me a team that's had a crappy position group at CB, S, EDGE or DL that's won a Super Bowl and I'll find you a liar.



Green Bay 2010 OLB starters

Clay
Zombo
Walden
Brad Jones
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Shanedorf


Joined: 18 Mar 2014
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PostPosted: Tue May 16, 2017 2:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Packerraymond wrote:


It has little to do with losing Biegel. It has lots to do that the depth there isn't good to begin with and now it's worse.


Perhaps, but let's think this through.
Do you think the Packers are aware of this perceived lack of depth ? And were the Packers aware of the OLB depth chart during the draft ?
Why didn't they move heaven and earth to secure another OLB ?
How much of the pass rush plan was dependent on a 4th round rookie ?
Is it possible that the Packers have a vet plan in place ?
Is it possible the Packers have a different view of Fackrell and Eliot than some of the fans ?

Vince Biegel missing a couple of months during his rookie summer shouldn't throw the 2017 pass rush plans into disarray, nor should it materially impact the overall defensive plan. His foot injury should be a temporary and minor inconvenience, one of many this front office plans for during their strategic meetings.
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