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Chieferific
Joined: 24 Feb 2006
Posts: 4943
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 Posted: Wed May 03, 2017 7:37 pm Post subject: Re: Read Below |
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| armsteeld wrote: | | DR43 wrote: | | At 5'11 would Sutton most likely be a slot corner in the NFL? Is that his ceiling? |
No. He is the average height for a boundary CB. He is 1" shorter than Burns. Sutton needs to gain more weight and become more physical but height isn't an issue. |
Height may be average but he isn't thick. If you're gonna be sub 6' you had better have some weight and if you don't have that, you'd better have some speed. Sutton has none of those qualities. He's a Nickel. |
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warfelg
Joined: 12 Jan 2014
Posts: 3564
Location: Richmond Va
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| Posted: Wed May 03, 2017 7:37 pm Post subject: |
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Why are people so obsessed with his height?
Our CB's heights:
Brian Allen 6'3"
Artie Burns 6'
Ross Cockrell 6'
Brandon Dixon 5'11"
Greg Ducre 5'10"
William Gay 5'10"
Senquez Golson (who?) 5'9"
Mike Hilton 5'9"
Devonte Johnson 6'
Coty Sensabaugh 5'11"
Cameron Sutton 5'11"
By some of ya'lls logic we only have 3 legit corners and a bunch of slot guys, which frankly is a load of crap.
Revis was great on the outside: 5'11" SLOT!
Chris Harris Jr great everywhere: 5'10" SLOT!
Vontae Davis: 5'11" SLOT!
Joe Haden 5'11" SLOT!
Malcolm Butler 5'10" HEY HE CAN Only BE A SLOT GUY!
SO FOR THE LOVE OF ALL THAT IS HOLY CAN WE STOP MAKING SUCH A BIG DEAL ABOUT HIS HEIGHT!!!!
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| jebrick wrote: | | Quote: | | Jarvis Jones signs with Steelers |
Hahahahaha.
Jones' only chance is to go to Tenn. Otherwise he is flipping burgers this fall. |
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warfelg
Joined: 12 Jan 2014
Posts: 3564
Location: Richmond Va
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| Posted: Wed May 03, 2017 7:42 pm Post subject: Re: Read Below |
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| Chieferific wrote: | | armsteeld wrote: | | DR43 wrote: | | At 5'11 would Sutton most likely be a slot corner in the NFL? Is that his ceiling? |
No. He is the average height for a boundary CB. He is 1" shorter than Burns. Sutton needs to gain more weight and become more physical but height isn't an issue. |
Height may be average but he isn't thick. If you're gonna be sub 6' you had better have some weight and if you don't have that, you'd better have some speed. Sutton has none of those qualities. He's a Nickel. |
Average CB weight is 190. Sutton was 188 at the combine. He could easily get to 200 if he wanted.
He was also coming off a bad ankle injury. Man if only those didn't effect your ability to run....
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| jebrick wrote: | | Quote: | | Jarvis Jones signs with Steelers |
Hahahahaha.
Jones' only chance is to go to Tenn. Otherwise he is flipping burgers this fall. |
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Chieferific
Joined: 24 Feb 2006
Posts: 4943
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| Posted: Wed May 03, 2017 7:45 pm Post subject: Re: Read Below |
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| warfelg wrote: | | Chieferific wrote: | | armsteeld wrote: | | DR43 wrote: | | At 5'11 would Sutton most likely be a slot corner in the NFL? Is that his ceiling? |
No. He is the average height for a boundary CB. He is 1" shorter than Burns. Sutton needs to gain more weight and become more physical but height isn't an issue. |
Height may be average but he isn't thick. If you're gonna be sub 6' you had better have some weight and if you don't have that, you'd better have some speed. Sutton has none of those qualities. He's a Nickel. |
Average CB weight is 190. Sutton was 188 at the combine. He could easily get to 200 if he wanted.
He was also coming off a bad ankle injury. Man if only those didn't effect your ability to run.... |
He isn't a big physical CB. If you aren't big and physical you better have elite speed. He doesn't. He's a Nickel. |
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CKSteeler
Joined: 17 Mar 2013
Posts: 10339
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| Posted: Wed May 03, 2017 10:40 pm Post subject: |
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Height isn't the be-all end all for corners. Most teams aren't starting 6'1 guys out on the boundary, even if ever draft profile seems to pretend that's the case. Frankly, good tall corners aren't that common.
But Sutton is, by the same token, a guy the team picked to check a box and because CB was pathetically picked over. He was a need pick. He could surprise us all and be a smart player who was just injured at a key moment, but the Steelers and all of us are just left hoping that's the case because it's not on film and the athletic ability isn't top notch.
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Mike Tomlin, January 17, 2017 on the avoiding the Patriots in previous playoffs:
"They haven't had to go through us, either. Stay tuned!"
Final: 36-17
NFL.com-BELICHICK OUTCOACHES TOMLIN YET AGAIN |
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Ward4HOF
Joined: 11 Apr 2011
Posts: 5142
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| Posted: Wed May 03, 2017 11:21 pm Post subject: Re: Read Below |
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| Chieferific wrote: | | warfelg wrote: | | Chieferific wrote: | | armsteeld wrote: | | DR43 wrote: | | At 5'11 would Sutton most likely be a slot corner in the NFL? Is that his ceiling? |
No. He is the average height for a boundary CB. He is 1" shorter than Burns. Sutton needs to gain more weight and become more physical but height isn't an issue. |
Height may be average but he isn't thick. If you're gonna be sub 6' you had better have some weight and if you don't have that, you'd better have some speed. Sutton has none of those qualities. He's a Nickel. |
Average CB weight is 190. Sutton was 188 at the combine. He could easily get to 200 if he wanted.
He was also coming off a bad ankle injury. Man if only those didn't effect your ability to run.... |
He isn't a big physical CB. If you aren't big and physical you better have elite speed. He doesn't. He's a Nickel. |
Did somebody tell the Bills this before they selected TreDavious White in the 1st this year? Cam Sutton' Clone, pretty much-same height, 4 lbs heavier, and .05 sec faster--not elite speed or big...or Vernon Hargreaves or Mackenzie Alexander last year? Shoot, D.J. White, when he played meaningful minutes for the Chiefs, split time between R CB and Slot duties--outside and inside, at 5'10.7", 193 lbs, 4.49 40. Awfully close to Sutton's measurables. Same with Kyle Fuller, out of 2014 draft, 5'11.6", 190, 4.49 who started outside for the Bears. Or Bashaud Breeland, also 2014, starting Left and Right CB the last 3 years for the Redskins, with some slot duty, I'm sure, but again, 5'11.3", 197, 4.62.
Point being, is all these guys, plus many others in the league, in that 5'11"/190-195 mold, with less than stellar speed (4.45 or slower), can succeed and hold their own on the outside. And considering Sutton has shown success on the outside for 3+ seasons in the SEC, with good technique, he might get the opportunity to at least line up outside to see what h can do. Maybe not, but I think what warfelg is saying is we can't just discount Sutton, a guy that is on that borderline, grey area. Not quite ideal 6' 200, 4.4 speed, but also not a 5'9", 175 4.6 speed guy, either.
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| DMG wrote: | | No. Ben's good, but he isn't one of the all-time greats. |
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SMashMouthMike
Joined: 01 Dec 2005
Posts: 5554
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| Posted: Thu May 04, 2017 1:57 am Post subject: |
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If he can jam and give edelman fits, then who cares?
Quickness and smarts is more important than flat line speed. He only has to cover him for 3 seconds if he gets a jam and the pass rush is worth a crap. How was his 3 cone?
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warfelg
Joined: 12 Jan 2014
Posts: 3564
Location: Richmond Va
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| Posted: Thu May 04, 2017 7:16 am Post subject: |
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| SMashMouthMike wrote: | If he can jam and give edelman fits, then who cares?
Quickness and smarts is more important than flat line speed. He only has to cover him for 3 seconds if he gets a jam and the pass rush is worth a crap. How was his 3 cone? |
6.81
SPARQ Score 113.4, better than 5 CB's taken before him.
EDIT:
That's funny to me is a lot of people lament not getting 2 guys:
Jourdan Lewis - 5'10" 188 SPARQ 109.8
Tre'Davious White - 5'11" 192 SPARQ 104.8
I don't understand how there could be so much hate about this pick, when those were two guys that people wanted, but are less athletic than Sutton!!
In the 2017 draft the average size of the CB was:
5'11.8"
186 pounds
Sparq 119.5
That's almost exactly what Cam Sutton is!
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| jebrick wrote: | | Quote: | | Jarvis Jones signs with Steelers |
Hahahahaha.
Jones' only chance is to go to Tenn. Otherwise he is flipping burgers this fall. |
Last edited by warfelg on Thu May 04, 2017 7:31 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Ward4HOF
Joined: 11 Apr 2011
Posts: 5142
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| Posted: Thu May 04, 2017 7:30 am Post subject: |
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| warfelg wrote: | | SMashMouthMike wrote: | If he can jam and give edelman fits, then who cares?
Quickness and smarts is more important than flat line speed. He only has to cover him for 3 seconds if he gets a jam and the pass rush is worth a crap. How was his 3 cone? |
6.81
SPARQ Score 113.4, better than 5 CB's taken before him. |
That's more telling than arm-length, IMO, as far as coverage goes; yeah, it would be nice to get that initial jam, but if you can't cover a hill of beans after that, it's all for not. Fact his, he showed great ability to stick with his man all through college, and that is what we need, IMO.
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| DMG wrote: | | No. Ben's good, but he isn't one of the all-time greats. |
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Steeler Hitman
Joined: 25 Apr 2006
Posts: 1795
Location: Laurel, MD
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| Posted: Thu May 04, 2017 12:35 pm Post subject: Re: Read Below |
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| Steeler Hitman wrote: | | DR43 wrote: | | At 5'11 would Sutton most likely be a slot corner in the NFL? Is that his ceiling? |
I would say that his size will (NOT) limit him to slot. Sutton has the ability and height at 5'11 to match up well on the outside as well. In fact, I am predicting Golson to potentially start if he can get back to his original health and he is only 5'9. While at a height of 5'9 you are not going to be an ideal match-up against Bryant, Evans or Benjamin, you can still be successful at CB as Antoine Winfield and former Steelers starters Willie Williams and Deshea Townsand were. Too many people get caught up in stats like and height, weight, arm length, 40 yard dash times, etc., etc., etc. People forget that Joe Hadden ran a pretty slow 40 time at the Combine, but has been an excellent pro CB on some bad teams.
Give me a guy who can get in good position and has excellent technique. The Steelers used to get torched with the big or long CB's like Ike Taylor, Chad Scott and Dwayne Washington. I will say that Ike was actually pretty good for several seasons as an under-rated lock down CB. He would have made a few pro bowls if he could catch. |
I left a word out so I edited my post.
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"Being a Steeler fan starts when the sperm meets the egg!" -- Unknown Steeler Fan |
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SMashMouthMike
Joined: 01 Dec 2005
Posts: 5554
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| Posted: Thu May 04, 2017 1:33 pm Post subject: |
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Yes he might not be able to jam. But he's doing something right getting to all those passes. The steelers love that off coverage stuff so they don't get picked. I would love to have a bump guy, because I believe that's how you slow them down, but I could be wrong about that. And Sutton might be able to bump a little too, IDK. So the steelers might be able to show zone in that off crap, and still have the caliber of cb's with burns, Sutton, and Allen to contend with the patsies, and not overhaul their coverage schemes through disguise. That is the best I can come up with I think.
The steelers seemed to draft some super smart guys, so I wouldn't be surprised if they put that as a priority. We always seemed to be outsmarted by that Pats so this might help a little. IDK.
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Chieferific
Joined: 24 Feb 2006
Posts: 4943
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| Posted: Thu May 04, 2017 8:53 pm Post subject: |
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| I still think a 5'11" 188lb CB that runs a +4.5 40 with good Man Coverage skills is BEST suited in the slot. That's not a bad thing. |
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armsteeld
Joined: 02 Mar 2009
Posts: 6797
Location: In your head
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| Posted: Thu May 04, 2017 10:16 pm Post subject: |
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If healthy, no CB on the roster has more talent than this guy... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1KqreLUCvH8
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jebrick
Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 10187
Location: Indianapolis
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| Posted: Fri May 05, 2017 6:47 am Post subject: |
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Except Burns.
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"You build with draft choices. You find people with talents adaptable to your plans and then you teach them to do things the way we do them." - Chuck Noll |
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Steeler Hitman
Joined: 25 Apr 2006
Posts: 1795
Location: Laurel, MD
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| Posted: Fri May 05, 2017 9:09 am Post subject: |
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| jebrick wrote: |
Except Burns. |
I have been doing some research on him and the more I dig, the more value that I see in this pick. This guy was a projected #1 draft choice at the end of last year. He potentially could have been a #1 draft pick had he not gotten injured early.
He may not be there yet as far as complete ability, but he hasn't hit his ceiling either. I believe that his ceiling can be pretty high based on his potential. I think he can excel outside or inside once he develops. Certainly we will have to see what he does on the field.
Many thought that the Steelers reached with Burns, but he ended up coming on strong during the second half of the season. We are expecting him to make another jump this season.
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